Natalee Case Discussion #679 8/26 - 8/31/2007

[igsigs]

> Possibility that the court postings on Kalpoe v Phil are not complete. Site update in the coming days...week...may provide clarity.

> Are we to believe that Paulus did not own a cell phone? What are the odds?

[klaasend]

> Possibility that the court postings on Kalpoe v Phil are not complete. Site update in the coming days...week...may provide clarity.

> Are we to believe that Paulus did not own a cell phone? What are the odds?

Of course he owned a cell phone.  They all have cell phones in Aruba.

[wreck]

> Possibility that the court postings on Kalpoe v Phil are not complete. Site update in the coming days...week...may provide clarity.

> Are we to believe that Paulus did not own a cell phone? What are the odds?

????

[igsigs]

KLPD should search all cell calls made between 2am - 5am on the night in question. How many would there be...hundreds...thousands?

Get the list, look for a match amoung all the 20 or so suspects / witnesses of interest. There has to a program that could do that, with ease. IMO

[klaasend]

KLPD should search all cell calls made between 2am - 5am on the night in question. How many would there be...hundreds...thousands?

Get the list, look for a match amoung all the 20 or so suspects / witnesses of interest. There has to a program that could do that, with ease. IMO

My bet is they already have all the cell records including Sander's and PVDS.

[wreck]

KLPD should search all cell calls made between 2am - 5am on the night in question. How many would there be...hundreds...thousands?

Get the list, look for a match amoung all the 20 or so suspects / witnesses of interest. There has to a program that could do that, with ease. IMO

I'm not following your train of thought. What did you mean by "site update"? 

[klaasend]

KLPD should search all cell calls made between 2am - 5am on the night in question. How many would there be...hundreds...thousands?

Get the list, look for a match amoung all the 20 or so suspects / witnesses of interest. There has to a program that could do that, with ease. IMO

I'm not following your train of thought. What did you mean by "site update"? 

I think what Igsigs is saying is that maybe the LA SUPERIOR COURT website hasn't completely updated everything n the Kalpoe vs. Dr. Phil case.  I know there should be a document filed from August 30th and that's not there yet.  So maybe in a few days there will be more information on what if anything was dismissed.

[wreck]

KLPD should search all cell calls made between 2am - 5am on the night in question. How many would there be...hundreds...thousands?

Get the list, look for a match amoung all the 20 or so suspects / witnesses of interest. There has to a program that could do that, with ease. IMO

I'm not following your train of thought. What did you mean by "site update"? 

I think what Igsigs is saying is that maybe the LA SUPERIOR COURT website hasn't completely updated everything n the Kalpoe vs. Dr. Phil case.  I know there should be a document filed from August 30th and that's not there yet.  So maybe in a few days there will be more information on what if anything was dismissed.

Ahhh! 

[igsigs]

My bet is they already have all the cell records including Sander's and PVDS.

It is interesting that Sander's cell was a PV topic. Maybe ALE found a call of interest...and asked him to cough up his phone.

I always thought it was curious that Sander had not reported the theft, or tried to replace it *yet* at the time of his interview.

[klaasend]

My bet is they already have all the cell records including Sander's and PVDS.

It is interesting that Sander's cell was a PV topic. Maybe ALE found a call of interest...and asked him to cough up his phone.

I always thought it was curious that Sander had not reported the theft, or tried to replace it *yet* at the time of his interview.

Didn't he say he reported it to Freddy? 

[robots]

My bet is they already have all the cell records including Sander's and PVDS.

It is interesting that Sander's cell was a PV topic. Maybe ALE found a call of interest...and asked him to cough up his phone.

I always thought it was curious that Sander had not reported the theft, or tried to replace it *yet* at the time of his interview.

Didn't he say he reported it to Freddy? 

 

[igsigs]

Didn't he say he reported it to Freddy? 

Yes! 

IIRC, in the first few days. Then...nothing. Freddy was too busy shopping for sneaks to help Sander.

[klaasend]

So here's what we know today that we didn't know last night:

#1 - there was a press conference yesterday but it was NOT pertaining to the NH case

#2 - it appears something may have been dismissed on Aug 30th in the Kalpoe vs. Dr. Phil case but we don't know exactly what.  We don't know if it's only pertaining to Skeeters or the entire case.

[igsigs]

So here's what we know today that we didn't know last night:

#1 - there was a press conference yesterday but it was NOT pertaining to the NH case

#2 - it appears something may have been dismissed on Aug 30th in the Kalpoe vs. Dr. Phil case but we don't know exactly what.  We don't know if it's only pertaining to Skeeters or the entire case.

+ Lazlo said that 1 KLPDer may be returning. Heartening to think that the KLPD are not totally out of the picture.

[wreck]

Despite the insanely inept/corrupt ALE, the FACTS are still out there to be looked at. The KLPD knows. The FBI knows. .....
It was brought up again last night about the US Government taking over after "closure" by the Arubans. The Dutch and FBI are working together -- maybe that IS the route they are taking. It will take something extraordinary to break free of the Aruban system.
I still say that "high level" cooperation between the U.S. and The Netherlands will dictate this case. ( this is not going to wrap up quickly -- but I keep the faith!)

[igsigs]

I still say that "high level" cooperation between the U.S. and The Netherlands will dictate this case.

Dompig appearing before Congress to explain how the FBI ruined the case is what i want to see. With his pathologist Mr. Naar in tow to explain his case theory.

[SuzieQ]

A little more information on Odubers' tantrum.


Aruba withdraws from
constitutional process

ORANJESTAD--Aruba has stopped participating, for the time being, in the negotiations for new constitutional arrangements for the Netherlands Antilles constellation.

Aruba’s decision was taken after negotiations with the Dutch Government on sharing the proceeds from the selling of Plant N.V. went sour.

“No money, no deal,” State Secretary of Kingdom Relations Ank Bijleveld-Schouten had said on Wednesday after her meeting with the Aruban Government about Plant N.V.

Hopes had been high that the issue of Plant N.V., which seemed to have been taking forever, would be finalised during Bijleveld-Schouten’s brief visit to Aruba.

Plant N.V. owns the buildings in which Marriott Hotel is currently housed. However, the buildings have been sold. Aruba had temporarily ceded its shares to the Netherlands as a guarantee for a loan, but it still considers itself as being the owner of the buildings.

Prime Minister Nelson Oduber hinted after his visit in the Netherlands in July that an agreement had been reached and that only the amount the Dutch had to pay Aruba had to be negotiated. However, Bijleveld-Schouten said on Wednesday that an agreement had already been reached on the amount: 151 million guilders, to be exact.

Oduber denied having reached any agreement and said he had informed the State Secretary in July that he had calculated a different amount. He believes Aruba is entitled to a higher percentage of the selling price of US $237 million. According to him, it had been agreed that further deliberations would take place on the level of civil servants and that the final amount would be determined in August.

After no agreement was reached on Plant N.V., the Aruban Government said the relationship between the island and the Netherlands had deteriorated. Also, Oduber ordered Aruba civil servants to stop participating in the negotiations for constitutional changes in the Netherlands Antilles.

Prime Minister of the Netherlands Antilles Emily de Jongh-Elhage told The Daily Herald she had taken notice of the media reports on the issue, but hadn’t received any official information from either Aruba or the Netherlands on the issue.

“I can’t really comment on it at this moment. Before Bijleveld-Schouten left for Aruba earlier this week, she told me that Aruba’s participation in the process has been very positive. I would like to remain positive on the issue,” she said. Constitutional Affairs Minister Roland Duncan was surprised when he was told what had happened. He was in Bonaire for a seminar on National Archives with the participation of all island territories and Aruba.

“You’re kidding!” Duncan said, after he was informed of Aruba’s decision to pull out of the constitutional change process.

He said he had no knowledge of what had transpired in Aruba and he would have to call Curaçao to find out. However, he expressed his concern about how Kingdom partners were dealing with each other when negotiating on several matters.

He said the Netherlands had been playing “hard ball” with the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba. He also contended that the Netherlands Antilles hadn’t been treating Aruba fairly.

“Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles have a cooperation agreement on the Common Court of Justice. But, meanwhile, the Netherlands Antilles has negotiated a consensus Kingdom Law with the Netherlands on Justice without telling Aruba,” Duncan said.

He strongly believes that better communication with Aruba is needed. “I have just agreed with Oduber that the Ministerial working group between the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba would meet again in September after being inactive for I don’t know how many years.”

Asked about Aruba’s decision to involve the constitutional change process of the Netherlands Antilles in its dispute with the Netherlands, Duncan said it probably had been done for leverage. While he believes it’s not correct, Duncan admits that the Dutch constantly do the same.

“In the accord signed on Tuesday with Curaçao and the Central Government, the Dutch used the leverage of money to incorporate new conditions to the debt relief programme in the accord,” Duncan cited as an example.

Constitutional Affairs Commissioner of Curaçao Zita Jesus-Leito too wasn’t aware of what had transpired in Aruba. But, she said she wouldn’t let these types of disputes and occurrences derail her attention from the main issue, which is the constitutional change process for Curaçao.

“Now it’s Aruba that doesn’t want to talk to the Netherlands. A couple of weeks ago it was Saba that had put a stop to its talks with the Netherlands. I will inform myself on what is happening, but I can’t let these things take up my time and attention,” she said.

This newspaper was unable to contact Constitutional Affairs Commissioner Sarah Wescot-Williams for her comments on this latest development.
 



Copyright ©2006 The Daily Herald St. Maarten
E-mail Webmaster 84   
 
 
 

[klaasend]

A little more information on Odubers' tantrum.


Aruba withdraws from
constitutional process

ORANJESTAD--Aruba has stopped participating, for the time being, in the negotiations for new constitutional arrangements for the Netherlands Antilles constellation.

Aruba’s decision was taken after negotiations with the Dutch Government on sharing the proceeds from the selling of Plant N.V. went sour.

“No money, no deal,” State Secretary of Kingdom Relations Ank Bijleveld-Schouten had said on Wednesday after her meeting with the Aruban Government about Plant N.V.

Hopes had been high that the issue of Plant N.V., which seemed to have been taking forever, would be finalised during Bijleveld-Schouten’s brief visit to Aruba.

Plant N.V. owns the buildings in which Marriott Hotel is currently housed. However, the buildings have been sold. Aruba had temporarily ceded its shares to the Netherlands as a guarantee for a loan, but it still considers itself as being the owner of the buildings.

Prime Minister Nelson Oduber hinted after his visit in the Netherlands in July that an agreement had been reached and that only the amount the Dutch had to pay Aruba had to be negotiated. However, Bijleveld-Schouten said on Wednesday that an agreement had already been reached on the amount: 151 million guilders, to be exact.

Oduber denied having reached any agreement and said he had informed the State Secretary in July that he had calculated a different amount. He believes Aruba is entitled to a higher percentage of the selling price of US $237 million. According to him, it had been agreed that further deliberations would take place on the level of civil servants and that the final amount would be determined in August.

After no agreement was reached on Plant N.V., the Aruban Government said the relationship between the island and the Netherlands had deteriorated. Also, Oduber ordered Aruba civil servants to stop participating in the negotiations for constitutional changes in the Netherlands Antilles.

Prime Minister of the Netherlands Antilles Emily de Jongh-Elhage told The Daily Herald she had taken notice of the media reports on the issue, but hadn’t received any official information from either Aruba or the Netherlands on the issue.

“I can’t really comment on it at this moment. Before Bijleveld-Schouten left for Aruba earlier this week, she told me that Aruba’s participation in the process has been very positive. I would like to remain positive on the issue,” she said. Constitutional Affairs Minister Roland Duncan was surprised when he was told what had happened. He was in Bonaire for a seminar on National Archives with the participation of all island territories and Aruba.

“You’re kidding!” Duncan said, after he was informed of Aruba’s decision to pull out of the constitutional change process.

He said he had no knowledge of what had transpired in Aruba and he would have to call Curaçao to find out. However, he expressed his concern about how Kingdom partners were dealing with each other when negotiating on several matters.

He said the Netherlands had been playing “hard ball” with the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba. He also contended that the Netherlands Antilles hadn’t been treating Aruba fairly.

“Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles have a cooperation agreement on the Common Court of Justice. But, meanwhile, the Netherlands Antilles has negotiated a consensus Kingdom Law with the Netherlands on Justice without telling Aruba,” Duncan said.

He strongly believes that better communication with Aruba is needed. “I have just agreed with Oduber that the Ministerial working group between the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba would meet again in September after being inactive for I don’t know how many years.”

Asked about Aruba’s decision to involve the constitutional change process of the Netherlands Antilles in its dispute with the Netherlands, Duncan said it probably had been done for leverage. While he believes it’s not correct, Duncan admits that the Dutch constantly do the same.

“In the accord signed on Tuesday with Curaçao and the Central Government, the Dutch used the leverage of money to incorporate new conditions to the debt relief programme in the accord,” Duncan cited as an example.

Constitutional Affairs Commissioner of Curaçao Zita Jesus-Leito too wasn’t aware of what had transpired in Aruba. But, she said she wouldn’t let these types of disputes and occurrences derail her attention from the main issue, which is the constitutional change process for Curaçao.

“Now it’s Aruba that doesn’t want to talk to the Netherlands. A couple of weeks ago it was Saba that had put a stop to its talks with the Netherlands. I will inform myself on what is happening, but I can’t let these things take up my time and attention,” she said.

This newspaper was unable to contact Constitutional Affairs Commissioner Sarah Wescot-Williams for her comments on this latest development.
 



Copyright ©2006 The Daily Herald St. Maarten
E-mail Webmaster 84   
 
 
 

Thanks SuzieQ - do you have a link to this article?

[SuzieQ]

A little more information on Odubers' tantrum.


Aruba withdraws from
constitutional process

ORANJESTAD--Aruba has stopped participating, for the time being, in the negotiations for new constitutional arrangements for the Netherlands Antilles constellation.

Aruba’s decision was taken after negotiations with the Dutch Government on sharing the proceeds from the selling of Plant N.V. went sour.

“No money, no deal,” State Secretary of Kingdom Relations Ank Bijleveld-Schouten had said on Wednesday after her meeting with the Aruban Government about Plant N.V.

Hopes had been high that the issue of Plant N.V., which seemed to have been taking forever, would be finalised during Bijleveld-Schouten’s brief visit to Aruba.

Plant N.V. owns the buildings in which Marriott Hotel is currently housed. However, the buildings have been sold. Aruba had temporarily ceded its shares to the Netherlands as a guarantee for a loan, but it still considers itself as being the owner of the buildings.

Prime Minister Nelson Oduber hinted after his visit in the Netherlands in July that an agreement had been reached and that only the amount the Dutch had to pay Aruba had to be negotiated. However, Bijleveld-Schouten said on Wednesday that an agreement had already been reached on the amount: 151 million guilders, to be exact.

Oduber denied having reached any agreement and said he had informed the State Secretary in July that he had calculated a different amount. He believes Aruba is entitled to a higher percentage of the selling price of US $237 million. According to him, it had been agreed that further deliberations would take place on the level of civil servants and that the final amount would be determined in August.

After no agreement was reached on Plant N.V., the Aruban Government said the relationship between the island and the Netherlands had deteriorated. Also, Oduber ordered Aruba civil servants to stop participating in the negotiations for constitutional changes in the Netherlands Antilles.

Prime Minister of the Netherlands Antilles Emily de Jongh-Elhage told The Daily Herald she had taken notice of the media reports on the issue, but hadn’t received any official information from either Aruba or the Netherlands on the issue.

“I can’t really comment on it at this moment. Before Bijleveld-Schouten left for Aruba earlier this week, she told me that Aruba’s participation in the process has been very positive. I would like to remain positive on the issue,” she said. Constitutional Affairs Minister Roland Duncan was surprised when he was told what had happened. He was in Bonaire for a seminar on National Archives with the participation of all island territories and Aruba.

“You’re kidding!” Duncan said, after he was informed of Aruba’s decision to pull out of the constitutional change process.

He said he had no knowledge of what had transpired in Aruba and he would have to call Curaçao to find out. However, he expressed his concern about how Kingdom partners were dealing with each other when negotiating on several matters.

He said the Netherlands had been playing “hard ball” with the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba. He also contended that the Netherlands Antilles hadn’t been treating Aruba fairly.

“Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles have a cooperation agreement on the Common Court of Justice. But, meanwhile, the Netherlands Antilles has negotiated a consensus Kingdom Law with the Netherlands on Justice without telling Aruba,” Duncan said.

He strongly believes that better communication with Aruba is needed. “I have just agreed with Oduber that the Ministerial working group between the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba would meet again in September after being inactive for I don’t know how many years.”

Asked about Aruba’s decision to involve the constitutional change process of the Netherlands Antilles in its dispute with the Netherlands, Duncan said it probably had been done for leverage. While he believes it’s not correct, Duncan admits that the Dutch constantly do the same.

“In the accord signed on Tuesday with Curaçao and the Central Government, the Dutch used the leverage of money to incorporate new conditions to the debt relief programme in the accord,” Duncan cited as an example.

Constitutional Affairs Commissioner of Curaçao Zita Jesus-Leito too wasn’t aware of what had transpired in Aruba. But, she said she wouldn’t let these types of disputes and occurrences derail her attention from the main issue, which is the constitutional change process for Curaçao.

“Now it’s Aruba that doesn’t want to talk to the Netherlands. A couple of weeks ago it was Saba that had put a stop to its talks with the Netherlands. I will inform myself on what is happening, but I can’t let these things take up my time and attention,” she said.

This newspaper was unable to contact Constitutional Affairs Commissioner Sarah Wescot-Williams for her comments on this latest development.
 



Copyright ©2006 The Daily Herald St. Maarten
E-mail Webmaster 84   
 
 
 

Thanks SuzieQ - do you have a link to this article?

Klaas, I'll go find it.

[wreck]

Sovereignty issues -- the root to solving Natalee's plight. --IMO