Natalee Case Discussion #681 9/16 - 9/24/2007

[klaasend]

[Lala'sMom]

I wonder if those gates are ever locked...maybe during the night time hours?

[klaasend]

I wonder if those gates are ever locked...maybe during the night time hours?

Maybe but you could certainly climb over them easily enough, don't you think?

[MumInOhio]

Thanks Lalas' seems the Dutch,Aruba and Suriname all have or had florins.

[dennisintn]

I wonder if those gates are ever locked...maybe during the night time hours?

you took the question right out of my brain, mom
dennisintn

[Lala'sMom]

Sharon
Determining the 5th suspect is difficult when reading those archives.  Now, you know why I have been so confused by it all.  Keep reading...it never becomes any clearer. LOL

[klaasend]

Aruba (Near San Nicolas)

Roughly 80% of Arubans are Roman Catholic, and parish churches dot the island. In Seroe Pretoe, near San Nicolas on the way from Arikok National Park, the Lourdes Grotto, a shrine to Our Lady of Lourdes, was built in the limestone rocks in 1958 to celebrate the 150th anniversary of the Virgin Mary's purported appearance to a peasant girl, St. Bernadette, in the south of France. Another grotto lies directly across the road. Neither is particularly noteworthy, probably because the local parish prohibits anyone from leaving candles, statues, pictures, or testimonials. Chartreuse parakeets inhabit the area.

Farther along the same road, the outback suddenly gives way to Aruba's second-largest town, San Nicolas. A phosphate-exporting port from 1879 until 1915, this town landed Esso's Lago oil refinery in 1924. Once the world's largest, the refinery attracted workers from other Caribbean islands, South America, and Europe. In 1942, U.S. troops landed to protect the complex, which supplied much of the Allies' aircraft fuel during the war. By 1951, the town had a population of 20,000, far more than Oranjestad at the time. The refinery closed in 1985, devastating the town and the island. It reopened in 1990 with a new owner, Texas-based Coastal Oil, which was then sold to Valero in 2004. Now that tourism has replaced oil as the island's major business, San Nicolas has waned in importance. One remnant of the town's "port atmosphere" deserves mention: Prostitution is actually legal in San Nicolas.

The center of Aruba's fishing industry, Savaneta is the island's oldest town and original capital. During the early Dutch period, its harbor was the safest place for ships, and in the mid-1800s, the area was known for breeding cochineals, insects that were crushed to produce the dye carmine. Retaining its salty tang, the town boasts a couple of good restaurants and a beachside spa.

On your way back home, you'll pass Hooiberg. At 162m (531 ft.), it may not be Aruba's highest hill, but it's the island's favorite landmark. If you have the stamina, climb the hundreds of steps (15-20 min.) to the summit; on a clear day, you can see Venezuela.

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/print-narrative.cfm?destID=176&catID=0176023225

[Lala'sMom]

I wonder if those gates are ever locked...maybe during the night time hours?

you took the question right out of my brain, mom
dennisintn

Not only that, but who maintains that area?   Would any of the local suspects be involved in that?  The table that appears to be behind the area next to Mary, would most likely be the place they hold mass.  How large is that area there and does it have any underground rooms built in to the side of the hill.  Just exactly which hill is that?  Is there a water source near there?  How close is it to the refinery area?  The ISA?  How long would it take to drive from the Sloots to there?  From Lorenzo's to there?  Just exactly how much illumination is there at night and by what source?  Electricity? Lamps? etc?  Is it accessible by a quad racer from the back side? I could go on, but those are enough questions of which I do not have answers.

[Lala'sMom]

Chartreuse Parakeets?  I wonder what color their bellies are?  I wonder what they look like?  What kind of cacti is that in the photos?  Are there and feather palms in that area?   Isn't limestone caves usually wet?  More questions. Sorry. 

[klaasend]

Just thought this was interresting:

http://www.bucuti.com/blog/?p=29

Aruba holds many hidden treasures - the legend of the underwater cross
August 2nd, 2007
Dr. Ryan Peterson is the Dean of the University of Aruba.  He is our keeper of Aruba’s history and treasures.  We’ve asked him to be a contributor to our blog.  I’m certain you’ll learn things in his stories about Aruba you would never know otherwise.   Please send me your thoughts. 

The Cross installed off the Esso Club in 1963 - written by John “Joe” van Ogrtop

The cross was installed in the summer of 1963 by Joe Van Ogtrop and Tres Dunlap.  Although Steve Fremgen was at the dock when the cross was blessed by Father Van Baars from St. Theresa’s Church and (for that matter my brother Dick Van Ogrop was also on the dock.)  Tres, I and Peterson (Aruban Fisherman and Dr. Peterson’s grandfather) were the only ones in the boat that took us behind the Esso Club to install the cross.  The pieces of the cross were lowered in the Caribbean from the boat of Peterson of San Nicolas.



The Story Of The Cross:

Tres Dunlap and I had read an article in Skin Diving Magazine about a statue of Christ that had been installed in an underwater grotto off of the coast of Italy.  The Statue was made of bronze from thousands of medallions, and other pieces of bronze that were melted down and used to form the statue.  It was installed to protect swimmers, boaters and divers from the perils of the sea.

Tres and I decided to do the same thing off the Esso Club in the summer of 1963 and since we knew that we could not duplicate the statue of bronze, we thought of having a Cross made of cast iron pipe instead.  I do not recall whom we contacted or who exactly made the Cross, but we had it made in the refinery.  The Cross consists of 6 pieces that ultimately were put together underwater off of the Club in 40 feet of water.  The main section of the 8′ Cross has a plate welded to the bottom of the vertical section which is bolted into a matching late on the base which is made of a 2 foot section of cast iron pipe about 2 foot high and to complete the picture, there are 4 smaller 2 foot long sections of pipe that are bolted to the base of the Cross that give the Cross its stability and it has stayed upright and proudly protecting the waters behind the club since 1963



Father van Baars from St. Theresa’s church came to the ‘new’ docks to bless the Cross the day Tres and I installed it off of the Esso Club with the help of a fisherman friend and his boat.  Once we got to a spot we had randomly chosen behind the Esso Club, the six pieces of the Cross and a burlap bag of nuts and bolts and pipe wrenches were dumped overboard in the 40 feet of water in a sandy bottom area at the first dropoff about 30 yards from the edge of the coral.  After putting on our trusty Summer Recreation Program SCUBA gear, Tres and I went overboard and spent the next 30 minutes or so bolting the pieces together.  We also filled the large pipe base of the Cross with sand and broken pieces of coral to give it additional stability.

As I said earlier, the reason for the Cross was to protect the waters off of Aruba for the fisherman, swimmers, divers etc. who ventured out beyond the reefs.  Since Tres and I installed the Cross, I have been back about 6 times, the most recent being in June 2003 when our entire family came to Aruba for the Lago/Aruba reunion.  I was happy to see that the Cross was still standing as proudly as the day we installed it.  It has developed its own mystique now that it is completely covered with a thin growth of fire coral along with the sea fans and brain coral that cover the base of the Cross.  In addition, a pair of beautiful queen angel fish seem to have taken up residence at the base because as we visited the cross, they kept swimming all around us.



 know that there have been all sorts of rumors as the reason for the cross, how it got there, who installed it, etc. but as Paul Harvey used to say,  “Now you know THE REST OF THE STORY

[Lala'sMom]

From the Kalpoes:

Freddy needs to tell the truth.

[Kiwi]

Chartreuse Parakeets?  I wonder what color their bellies are?  I wonder what they look like?  What kind of cacti is that in the photos?  Are there and feather palms in that area?   Isn't limestone caves usually wet?  More questions. Sorry. 

Hi just between patients, Lala'sMom that appears to be organ pipe cactus and century plants with the long tree like structures in one view.

[klaasend]

Birds of Aruba - this is the only parakeet I find:



BROWN-THROATED, OR CARIBBEAN PARAKEET
Aratinga pertinax

Visitors from northern climes will delight at seeing flocks of native, wild parakeets roaming the countryside, sometimes coming near some of the resorts that maintain native vegetation. Like most parakeets, these are loud, raucous birds that may appear first jetting by in a small, green flock. A closer view will reveal the beautiful bluish colors in the wings, the yellow under the tail, and the yellowish eye ring. Birds from Aruba are described as a distinct subspecies and are drabber than the subspecies from Curaçao and Bonaire, which have brighter yellow on the face and throat

[klaasend]

San Nicolas – Sta. Teresita (Catholic)
Theresiaplein 8
Phone: (297) 584.5118
Fax: (297) 584.3196
Tuesday till Friday 6.30 pm
Saturday 7 pm
Sunday 8.30 am and 6.30 pm

[2NJSons_Mom]

Lalas, looks like the statue of the Virgin Mary is lit 24/7, but that doesn't mean the entire area is...

Lourdes Grotto, Aruba
 Andrew Weber
 Displayed: 114  times.

The population of Aruba is predominantly Catholic, a fact that can be seen by observing the number of Catholic churches located in all of the districts of the island. On a drive to the northeastern coast from San Nicolas, you'll drive by a unique Roman Catholic shrine built into the rocks.

The Lourdes Grotto was created under the guidance of a priest named "Erkamp" and parishioners in the year 1958. The grotto is located in Seroe Pretoe (black hill). The year 1958 was an important year as it was 150 years ago that the Holy Virgin appeared in front of Bernadette, as legend has it in Aruba.

Bishop Holterman blessed the statue from the Holy Virgin and Bernadette. The statue weighed 700 kilos and one Mrs. Maria Geerman played an important role in the development of the grotto. Eight people were needed to hoist the statue and place it in the grotto.

Mrs. Geerman's wish was to be buried in the same box that carried the Holy Virgin and this wish was granted. Elmar, the electrical company of Aruba provided a permanent light Pole, so that the statue would be illuminated throughout the night.
Every year, on February 11th (feast of Lady of Lourdes) a procession leaves from the St. Theresita church in San Nicolas to the grotto, where a mass is performed.

http://www.odyssei.com/travel-tips/3882.html

[klaasend]

San Nicolas – Sta. Teresita (Catholic)
Theresiaplein 8
Phone: (297) 584.5118
Fax: (297) 584.3196
Tuesday till Friday 6.30 pm
Saturday 7 pm
Sunday 8.30 am and 6.30 pm

[klaasend]

[sharon]

Sharon
Determining the 5th suspect is difficult when reading those archives.  Now, you know why I have been so confused by it all.  Keep reading...it never becomes any clearer. LOL

So true.

And I'm not even thinking Shango and the 5th suspect. 

I'm focused on Steve Croes. And why was he really arrested/detained/questioned. I don't buy the bs about overhearing Deepak -- or doing a favor for Deepak for $ -- or witnessing a fight on the beach as he told his grandmother  In one of Deepak's PV's, he says Croes was at C&C that night. But we haven't heard any more about that. So......was he there?

And Lorenzo -- why was he really detained/arrested/questioned.

The news broadcasts say that ONE of them (Steve or Lorenzo) was detained after the questioning of 2 Dutch brothers. Sander & Koen?? What did they say?

That's why, IMO, there are many answers hidden somewhere in that chaos.

The archive I was reading contained posts with the news as it was announced over Aruban radio.

[Kiwi]

Could this location relate to some of the Virgin quotes in Shango and other sources?

[SunnyinTX]

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/9/19/



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Hi Monks! Will someone please tell me what this say :shock:even with the online trranslations ...it makes me crazy trying to read it and figure out what it says....