Natalee Case Discussion #681 9/16 - 9/24/2007

[SunnyinTX]

By allowing those posts to stand, BFN is now NO BETTER than RU or FOB.  I am so sickened and disappointed in people lately.

If posts like this were made towards Robin Holloway you can bet your ass that it would have been edited.

Shame on BFN for leaving those posts up.

Even after Beth thanked them and all the bloggers in her book for all their help.

"Special thanks go to RED at Scared Monkeys, and to all the kind helpful bloggers who have supported our family, from Blogs for Natalee to Truth for Natalee, and all the others. You have truly been a source of great support as well as providing important and useful information."

There is something called respect.  By leaving those posts up and not warning that poster to stop with the false accusations they are just as bad.  They disrespected the person who has fought tooth and nail for the truth for her daughter and who they themselves named their blog after.

BFN you must be very proud of yourself.

San...this line of your post is what REALLY hurts becasue it is so true!! I know it's Debbie's site and she can leave what she wants on her site...but IMO Robin should ask that the posts be removed!  I will be interested to hear if she does.

If posts like this were made towards Robin Holloway you can bet your ass that it would have been edited.

[SunnyinTX]

Not that I feel the need to explain anything to anyone here, I called Dave & Robin as soon as those posts were made.  They said leave them so that everyone can see what the other side thinks.  It is their choice whether to answer them or not, in fact if they choose to answer them it could be very interesting and informative and can stop that line of thinking in others. 

Shutting people up will not find the answers, nor does making funny little jib-jabs.  If we are truly looking to find the answers then we must be willing to look at everything and consider everything.

BFN is a pro-family site, that is where they post and read everyday... and I do consult them, afterall they are Natalee's family.

I hope you all have a very nice Sunday!

Debbie, thank you for your post...however...had that been written about Robin would you have called her and asked her if SHE wanted it to stay?  I think NOT!! BFN is a pro-family site...but IMO for only 1/2 of the family....Natalee had and loved 2 families and I would love to see both sides of the family treated equally. Thank you

[Auntiem]

Muffybee - Debbie did post in that thread at BFN that she called Robin and Dave and asked if she should let the posts remain, Robin and Dave said yes.

I agree with San - did Debbie also contact Beth?

I can't read at BFN,not registered but I can't help wondering.....what if someone posted questions like this to Dave and Robin at BFN?Would they(Dave,Robin,BFN)allow those posts to stand?Would they be answered and dealt with in a timely manner?
Why does it seem that BFN is only a Dave and Robin blog for Natalee and not a blog that includes Beth?It may not be that way at all,just my thoughts.

Karma.......There are those who, with an "Aruban Agenda", have long ago been allowed to infiltrate BFN and proceed to consistently bash Beth!!  These were known Beth bashers and evil posters from RUFOB, but they were permitted and upheld, and many good posters were banned or quit for daring to stand up to them. The "Big Exodus" took place over a year ago when the Beth Bashers, were lauded by Robin.....that was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. That was just something that myself and others who had been desperately holding on and putting up with daily insults, just couldn't, wouldn't stand for!! It was the final betrayal to Beth by BFN ......we could not turn the other cheek any longer..

[Auntiem]

     Was Debbie offended by the Jib-Jab of the Dutch-Arubans?   Interesting!!

[klaasend]

     Was Debbie offended by the Jib-Jab of the Dutch-Arubans?   Interesting!!

It appears so, otherwise why even bring it up?

[Rob]

     Was Debbie offended by the Jib-Jab of the Dutch-Arubans?   Interesting!!

It appears so, otherwise why even bring it up?

maybe I missed a jib-jab... but *thought* all of those clips involved the suspects and their willing accomplices. Why would someone get up set about that....unless

[Red]

I have read a lot of nonsense this morning regarding BFN and frankly it is a policy of SM not to comment on what other blogs do. However, since a particular individual has decided to criticize this site on this site ... that policy is going to be vacated.

The difference between BFN and SM is ... Scared Monkeys does not ask permission from a family where something should be or not be allowed to be posted, commented on, asked or answered. We are beholden to no one. What more so happens is that family members ask us for help. They ask us for information or the proper way to present a story. We are asked how to conduct interviews. Not just in the Natalee case. Much to the misconceptions of many, we take marching orders from no one ... that's what makes SM unique.

What we do use is "common sense" and what would be deemed appropriate vs. a troll comment just meant to be offensive. It would appear that certain sites do not use that same "common, good sense" approach and that is their prerogative. SM is a victims right site. We allow all types of comments, views and opinions, but that does not mean offering an opposing view that is hateful. Here is a rule of thumb for those that seem to not comprehend what it means to be a victims rights advocacy group.

IF YOU HAVE TO ASK A QUESTION WHERE ONE THINKS SOME THING IS WRONG OR OFFENSIVE ... IT IS.

As for BFN making an underhanded comment as to what we use as content, ie Jib Jab ... take a look in the mirror before you ever comment on another sites content. You have no idea why we do anything here, nor are you privy to the information, nor would you ever understand. Having lived in Aruba and dealt with many people there in all aspects of society, I think I might know a little better than most what makes people tick and what gets under their skin. I think I will go out on a limb and say, I think I have some insight that most do not. This is why I spoke with the family from the outset. Dave & Beth will tell you that most every prediction that was made, came true as to what would happen in this case. SM uses all means to present stories to the public. That means sourced news, exclusives, blog interviews, radio interviews, humor and sarcasm. I guess it is really true what they say about sarcasm and it being wasted on some.

No site has worked harder behind the scenes or in plain site that SM to help Natalee's family find answers, keep the focus on this story and disseminate information. We do this not as a site that has to get things approved by family members but instead as a site that does the right thing because we care.

Not only for Natalee and her family but for many other families of missing and exploited individuals. SM has focused on stories that have caught the attention of the MSM because producers on MSM read the site.

Its not always about finding answers, that is for investigators. Many times its about telling the story that people have never hears of. That story then gets national attention.

Sometimes its about focusing on a missing child or a crime committed against a child and the next thing we know the media, TV and newspapers are contacting us. That is why SM has been recognized by many in all forms of the media whether they be print, radio or TV.

Scared Monkeys is not a site just for Natalee Holloway. Its much, much more than that. We learned a long time ago thru the many conversations and meetings with Tim Miller and families with missing persons, that all cases are linked.

We are in it for the long haul ... to help as many as we can and apologize to no one for their petty issues or jealousies. This is not about us, its much bigger than that. Its about making a difference, not trying to create on-line controversy where there is none. That is juvenile. I will put our record out their and let it stand on its own.

Now back to the important work of helping families, telling their stories and keeping the focus and attention on them. 

Much appreciated,
RED

[klaasend]

     Was Debbie offended by the Jib-Jab of the Dutch-Arubans?   Interesting!!

It appears so, otherwise why even bring it up?

maybe I missed a jib-jab... but *thought* all of those clips involved the suspects and their willing accomplices. Why would someone get up set about that....unless

All either suspects or ALE/Renfro/AHATA

[klaasend]

BRAVO Red!   

[mrs. red]

The sickening part is that a few of the disinformation posters might, IMO, actually know what happened to Natalee. Yet, instead of really helping Natalee's family by telling the truth, they post lies and distractions and try to blame Natalee.

I haven't read at BFN... but I will weigh in and say what I personally think... it's two-fold.

One - yes, these are probably the VERY people that could tell us what happened, it's been stated over and over and over that the entire island knows each other's business, after all, the entire country is the size of a small town here... 
they are part of the paid officals of disinformation....


as for letting nasty posts stand about Beth.....

of course Natalee's step-mom doesn't care if they are left up.  After all it's what destroyed her life as she knew it... nothing will ever be the same for her or her family...and quite frankly I think that she is jealous of Beth...
 
this would be MY OPINION.... it is what I surmise seeing all that has gone on.... no other reason for allowing the continious bashing....

do you think that it would go over if at SM we started bashing Robin and Dave?  of course not, and nor should it.... I haven't walked in Beth or Dave's shoes and wouldn't allow it...
enuff said by me...

climbing off my soap box...

[ospainter]

Klaas,

Check your FP email please.

Thanks,

OS

[klaasend]

Klaas,

Check your FP email please.

Thanks,

OS

I'm not sure the front page email link is working properly.  Just email me at smklaas@hotmail.com

[mrs. red]

Does anyone know of a good site to monitor book sales?  Amazon would likely just have their own sales numbers, etc.  Don't think we will be seeing the NYT list for a while but continue to hope it will be there eventually.

Any site that records all book sales?

Here is my numbers:

Beth's Book - 1,000,000 copies.

Joran's Book - 10 copies.  The rest pulled from the shelves and used for toilet paper for the homeless in the Netherlands.

San, just so you know, I LOVE you!!!  you make me laugh so hard when you tell the truth simply and plainly like this!!

[ospainter]

Klaas,

Check your FP email please.

Thanks,

OS

I'm not sure the front page email link is working properly.  Just email me at smklaas@hotmail.com

On it's way

OS

[klaasend]

Klaas,

Check your FP email please.

Thanks,

OS

I'm not sure the front page email link is working properly.  Just email me at smklaas@hotmail.com

Actually the front page email is working, forgot that Dugga and I made some changes.  Got your email and responded...THANKS!

[klaasend]

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/09/23/aruba-fire-in-bushiri-hotel-not-even-security-guards-could-prevent-breaking-ins/

Aruba: Fire in Bushiri Hotel … “Not Even Security Guards Could Prevent Breaking Ins”

[Rob]

Speaking of Beth (and this is just my observation).

No one can bring her down. That message is clear. Not a poster on a site, not Greta, and an Admin.. no one. She has too much resolve. I believe this is something we all have, but most are afraid of it, or are unable to harness it until something horrible happens.

Beth has been through so much. There is no looking back. Only forward. In order to see her mission through, she must look ahead. She must face the challenges of today. She needs to summon her own inner strength to see that Natalee gets her justice.

I'm sure she has her bad days. She's human just like the rest of us.  You have all heard her say over and over again that the support has sustained her. I believe that is 110% true. No one wants to become a 'celebrity' in this manner. I'm sure she would love to return to her old life and turn back time. And if I had one wish, I would wish for her and Natalee to have just even one more day together.

When people speak badly of the family of a missing person, they are speaking badly of themselves.

[KarmaRoundUp]

Muffybee - Debbie did post in that thread at BFN that she called Robin and Dave and asked if she should let the posts remain, Robin and Dave said yes.

I agree with San - did Debbie also contact Beth?

I can't read at BFN,not registered but I can't help wondering.....what if someone posted questions like this to Dave and Robin at BFN?Would they(Dave,Robin,BFN)allow those posts to stand?Would they be answered and dealt with in a timely manner?
Why does it seem that BFN is only a Dave and Robin blog for Natalee and not a blog that includes Beth?It may not be that way at all,just my thoughts.

Karma.......There are those who, with an "Aruban Agenda", have long ago been allowed to infiltrate BFN and proceed to consistently bash Beth!!  These were known Beth bashers and evil posters from RUFOB, but they were permitted and upheld, and many good posters were banned or quit for daring to stand up to them. The "Big Exodus" took place over a year ago when the Beth Bashers, were lauded by Robin.....that was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. That was just something that myself and others who had been desperately holding on and putting up with daily insults, just couldn't, wouldn't stand for!! It was the final betrayal to Beth by BFN ......we could not turn the other cheek any longer..

Thanks for your response AuntieM.
I hardly ever read at BFN when you could just read there and I tried my best not to read the evilness at the family/victim hate sites.....just burned my heart to read such darkness.I have always read at Scared Monkeys,they always seemed to be the fairest,unbiased family/victim site out here.
Maybe this stuff at BFN is also meant to distract?I thought we had some pretty good discussions going on about Beth's book.

[KarmaRoundUp]

I have read a lot of nonsense this morning regarding BFN and frankly it is a policy of SM not to comment on what other blogs do. However, since a particular individual has decided to criticize this site on this site ... that policy is going to be vacated.

The difference between BFN and SM is ... Scared Monkeys does not ask permission from a family where something should be or not be allowed to be posted, commented on, asked or answered. We are beholden to no one. What more so happens is that family members ask us for help. They ask us for information or the proper way to present a story. We are asked how to conduct interviews. Not just in the Natalee case. Much to the misconceptions of many, we take marching orders from no one ... that's what makes SM unique.

What we do use is "common sense" and what would be deemed appropriate vs. a troll comment just meant to be offensive. It would appear that certain sites do not use that same "common, good sense" approach and that is their prerogative. SM is a victims right site. We allow all types of comments, views and opinions, but that does not mean offering an opposing view that is hateful. Here is a rule of thumb for those that seem to not comprehend what it means to be a victims rights advocacy group.

IF YOU HAVE TO ASK A QUESTION WHERE ONE THINKS SOME THING IS WRONG OR OFFENSIVE ... IT IS.

As for BFN making an underhanded comment as to what we use as content, ie Jib Jab ... take a look in the mirror before you ever comment on another sites content. You have no idea why we do anything here, nor are you privy to the information, nor would you ever understand. Having lived in Aruba and dealt with many people there in all aspects of society, I think I might know a little better than most what makes people tick and what gets under their skin. I think I will go out on a limb and say, I think I have some insight that most do not. This is why I spoke with the family from the outset. Dave & Beth will tell you that most every prediction that was made, came true as to what would happen in this case. SM uses all means to present stories to the public. That means sourced news, exclusives, blog interviews, radio interviews, humor and sarcasm. I guess it is really true what they say about sarcasm and it being wasted on some.

No site has worked harder behind the scenes or in plain site that SM to help Natalee's family find answers, keep the focus on this story and disseminate information. We do this not as a site that has to get things approved by family members but instead as a site that does the right thing because we care.

Not only for Natalee and her family but for many other families of missing and exploited individuals. SM has focused on stories that have caught the attention of the MSM because producers on MSM read the site.

Its not always about finding answers, that is for investigators. Many times its about telling the story that people have never hears of. That story then gets national attention.

Sometimes its about focusing on a missing child or a crime committed against a child and the next thing we know the media, TV and newspapers are contacting us. That is why SM has been recognized by many in all forms of the media whether they be print, radio or TV.

Scared Monkeys is not a site just for Natalee Holloway. Its much, much more than that. We learned a long time ago thru the many conversations and meetings with Tim Miller and families with missing persons, that all cases are linked.

We are in it for the long haul ... to help as many as we can and apologize to no one for their petty issues or jealousies. This is not about us, its much bigger than that. Its about making a difference, not trying to create on-line controversy where there is none. That is juvenile. I will put our record out their and let it stand on its own.

Now back to the important work of helping families, telling their stories and keeping the focus and attention on them. 

Much appreciated,
RED

Thank you Red!
That's exactly what Scared Monkeys is about.

[klaasend]

It's so easy to prove what a liar Glenda/Renfro is.  They do it continually at RU even: