Natalee Case Discussion #682 9/24 - 9/30/2007

[JusticeforNatalee]

Good questions, there Ms. Marple.

I think you should send them on over to the show.

[greeneyedlady]

Trixie posted this & these links @ Scrux.


There is a well known party house on Savaneta....

http://i9.tinypic.com/4m2yano.jpg

http://i6.tinypic.com/62p1lir.jpg
~~~~

These are photos of Astrid's home, I believe.

How does a volkswagon dealer on a small island own such an extravagant home? Or did Astrid buy this with insurance money after Van Rijns death. How did Lorenzo afford such a home as he has? As far as I know no one has ever said he "works at a real job" for a living.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Trixie posted this & these links @ Scrux.


There is a well known party house on Savaneta....

http://i9.tinypic.com/4m2yano.jpg

http://i6.tinypic.com/62p1lir.jpg
~~~~

These are photos of Astrid's home, I believe.

How does a volkswagon dealer on a small island own such an extravagant home? Or did Astrid buy this with insurance money after Van Rijns death. How did Lorenzo afford such a home as he has? As far as I know no one has ever said he "works at a real job" for a living.

This looks like the same structure as Klaasend posted last night on page 5....that's what I think you are saying GEL....I can see a car dealer owning a nice home, but as far as Lorenzo having a 'real' job...I don't recall...just cars, bikes, drugs, craziness & acquaintances.

[San]

The bottom line here is that speculation of various clubs (private clubs by invitation only) has always been a hot topic on here.  Do they exist or not?  We have talked and argued about it for two years now.  Whether this club existed when Natale was there is only important if you think this could be where she was taken.  We know that Lorenzo's name was one of the first mentioned concerning private "rave" parties.  It was the Aruban posters that were floating these stories within days of Natalee's disappearance.  So that tells me there is some credence to these stories.  I know many think Lorenzo is secondary and some of us think he's highly involved.  There are coincidences that could lead one to believe that he is indeed involved.  It's all a matter of connecting the dots. Regardless, those private party places exist on Aruba and most likely they involve gambling and money laundering and a whole host of other underworld things.
 

Yes -- I believe they do exist lala's.

And Mr Arias (and his wife Flory) seem to have a Florida connection -- don't have much time this morning to check it out, though. Hopefully later (unless someone else gets to it first)

IMO -- This is EXACTLY what Freddy's brother -- Ernesto -- 'arranges' in South Beach. That is...before he disappeared (or changed his name )

connecting....the...dots....

I have always believed Freddy's and his brother are involved.  We know Freddy was but have no confirmation that his slug of a brother Ernesto was.

I remember reading a comment Ernesto made in an article I read.  He said something like in this type of business in order to survive you have to have connections and I have the connections.

Connecting the dots indeed.

[2NJSons_Mom]

When I read these initials, Freddy & family came to mind:

F.R.A. (50 aña)

[greeneyedlady]

From BFN-re questions for Dave and Robin:

{{edited because I firmly believe there is no place for a question like that in a family friendly forum - even if the original question wasn't posted at SM}}


Robin wrote:
I don't mind if Beth uses the name Holloway.  Matt has not mentioned it, but I think it is best for him since she is not married.  Don't most people that have remarried and the divorce take the last name back they had for the sake of their children?

[klaasend]

GEL - Thanks but that is a question that should never have been asked.  It should have not been allowed to stay up.  The purpose of the question was to bash Beth.

[Anna]

Well, I would be shocked if there were not any number of private clubs in Aruba.  But when Astrid's house was listed for sale, it didn't say anything about it being a club of any sort.  I think lots of enhancements have been made since she sold it.

I thought The Lions Den was the private club of choice for those that promote that line of thought. 

I have also never thought that Natalee was at a private club of any sort.  I believe that idea came from those who want anybody except Joran held responsible for her disappearance.

Just my opinion but it doesn't seem anything likely to me.  And the disinformation agents were at it from the first week.  Many of the very first posts coming out of Aruba were later totally discredited.

The more time that passes, my circle of suspects keeps shrinking instead of growing.  I even suspect that Paulus and Joran handled the original disposal themselves to prevent the involvement of others.

My bead is still on J2K+Paulus. 

JMO

.

[San]

Well, I would be shocked if there were not any number of private clubs in Aruba.  But when Astrid's house was listed for sale, it didn't say anything about it being a club of any sort.  I think lots of enhancements have been made since she sold it.

I thought The Lions Den was the private club of choice for those that promote that line of thought. 

I have also never thought that Natalee was at a private club of any sort.  I believe that idea came from those who want anybody except Joran held responsible for her disappearance.

Just my opinion but it doesn't seem anything likely to me.  And the disinformation agents were at it from the first week.  Many of the very first posts coming out of Aruba were later totally discredited.

The more time that passes, my circle of suspects keeps shrinking instead of growing.  I even suspect that Paulus and Joran handled the original disposal themselves to prevent the involvement of others.

My bead is still on J2K+Paulus. 

JMO

.

I will agree that the Kalpoes didn't handle the disposal.  They were busy at home washing Deepak's car along with another unknown person.

I feel there was one person who helped Paulus and Joran with the disposal and the one person is Freddy.  JMO.

[Kiwi]

Well, I would be shocked if there were not any number of private clubs in Aruba.  But when Astrid's house was listed for sale, it didn't say anything about it being a club of any sort.  I think lots of enhancements have been made since she sold it.

I thought The Lions Den was the private club of choice for those that promote that line of thought. 

I have also never thought that Natalee was at a private club of any sort.  I believe that idea came from those who want anybody except Joran held responsible for her disappearance.

Just my opinion but it doesn't seem anything likely to me.  And the disinformation agents were at it from the first week.  Many of the very first posts coming out of Aruba were later totally discredited.

The more time that passes, my circle of suspects keeps shrinking instead of growing.  I even suspect that Paulus and Joran handled the original disposal themselves to prevent the involvement of others.

My bead is still on J2K+Paulus. 

JMO

.

I will agree that the Kalpoes didn't handle the disposal.  They were busy at home washing Deepak's car along with another unknown person.

I feel there was one person who helped Paulus and Joran with the disposal and the one person is Freddy.  JMO.

I also agree with you all. Just the fact that they all don't have statements that match sure points to small groups. The nice thing is here they will all get the same accommodations  eventually.

[greeneyedlady]

GEL - Thanks but that is a question that should never have been asked.  It should have not been allowed to stay up.  The purpose of the question was to bash Beth.

I know Klaas..I just thought it was good to see what Robin did finally say.

[klaasend]

GEL - Thanks but that is a question that should never have been asked.  It should have not been allowed to stay up.  The purpose of the question was to bash Beth.

I know Klaas..I just thought it was good to see what Robin did finally say.

Yep I thought that part was good too.  Thanks for posting Robins answer!

[greeneyedlady]

GEL - Thanks but that is a question that should never have been asked.  It should have not been allowed to stay up.  The purpose of the question was to bash Beth.

I know Klaas..I just thought it was good to see what Robin did finally say.

Yep I thought that part was good too.  Thanks for posting Robins answer!

You are welcome, anytime.

[Dee]

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=131637359

Is Deepak in the US now?  Just came across this a little while ago.

[pdh3]

Wow! 

How are these Mansurs related to Jossy? Or are they?

Lius Mansur is believed to be the brother of Jossy.

.

Thanks!

[klaasend]

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=131637359

Is Deepak in the US now?  Just came across this a little while ago.

No, he's in Aruba.  He has had Miami on there for a while, probably just trying to be "cute".

[Dee]

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=131637359

Is Deepak in the US now?  Just came across this a little while ago.

No, he's in Aruba.  He has had Miami on there for a while, probably just trying to be "cute".

I saw a recent log in for it, that's why I was wondering.  I guess someone here would know if he WAS in the states.

[klaasend]

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=131637359

Is Deepak in the US now?  Just came across this a little while ago.

No, he's in Aruba.  He has had Miami on there for a while, probably just trying to be "cute".

I saw a recent log in for it, that's why I was wondering.  I guess someone here would know if he WAS in the states.

Well let's put it this way, when KLPD was at his house and we saw photos of him being taken away...he had Miami on his myspace site then as well. 

[MuffyBee]

Sounds like wishful thinking....

[Anna]

Well, I would be shocked if there were not any number of private clubs in Aruba.  But when Astrid's house was listed for sale, it didn't say anything about it being a club of any sort.  I think lots of enhancements have been made since she sold it.

I thought The Lions Den was the private club of choice for those that promote that line of thought. 

I have also never thought that Natalee was at a private club of any sort.  I believe that idea came from those who want anybody except Joran held responsible for her disappearance.

Just my opinion but it doesn't seem anything likely to me.  And the disinformation agents were at it from the first week.  Many of the very first posts coming out of Aruba were later totally discredited.

The more time that passes, my circle of suspects keeps shrinking instead of growing.  I even suspect that Paulus and Joran handled the original disposal themselves to prevent the involvement of others.

My bead is still on J2K+Paulus. 

JMO

.

I will agree that the Kalpoes didn't handle the disposal.  They were busy at home washing Deepak's car along with another unknown person.

I feel there was one person who helped Paulus and Joran with the disposal and the one person is Freddy.  JMO.

San,
I could go with Freddie except for the fact that he sure dropped a dime on Joran saying Joran was telling him about Natalee being missing on Monday before her flight really left.  That doesn't fit with his really being guilty of nearly as much as Joran but still, I think he would have lied and said Joran told him that on Tuesday instead if he were deeply involved as Joran.

BTW, Melody also posted in her posts at RWV that as far as she know Joran didn't have a half brother or step brother or anything like that for which Lorenzo could qualify. 

So since Freddie hung Joran out to dry more so than anybody, now I don't know.  I think he is a scumbag and into trying to make and market porn and all that but am not sure if he was involved in this or not. 

If he was really spending the night/crashing at Joran's then he was for sure.  And at the least, he is very close by and might be a first contact in case of need but still, he did say Joran told him on Monday that "the girl" was missing so this tends to throw me off his track somewhat.

It could have been any combination of the PIMPS I suppose and not sure how we can ever know until one of them wakes up and decides to stop covering for Joran.

JMO