Natalee Case Discussion #682 9/24 - 9/30/2007

[SuzieQ]

Hyro Oduber?

very possible

[Anna]

Wasn't Luis Mansur just arrested in this raid of this club and others?

No, the club was not raided.  Luis Mansur was arrested at his home.  The Club Arias is an entire different subject.

Well, I thought there was a connection to the raid in some way. 

Hoping my book arrives tomorrow!

G'nite!

[2NJSons_Mom]

Hyro Oduber?

very possible

Klaasend questioned whether it could be an Oduber....the age was listed as 41...

[SuzieQ]

Another JAC is Jacintho A. Croes. Paradera 32 and Roncado 8-B. Must be his home and business

[klaasend]

Hyro Oduber?

I thought about that too, but I think Hyro is younger than in his 40's.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=18692712

[klaasend]

Another JAC is Jacintho A. Croes. Paradera 32 and Roncado 8-B. Must be his home and business

Hmmm, hold on a sec.  Nope..I was hoping maybe there were some addresses in the Diario article.

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/9/25/

[Observer]

9-25-07 Awemainta

[IBE]

Yippee

I found Klaas... I left you a message over on musings about something was said about Burgess, suspect in missing Donna Jou case... Did you hear it?

I am a happy camper tonight!!!! Been checking the BarnsNoble site for Beth's book.

There was something else I wanted to say but can't remember it. Klaas is it at your local Walmart yet?

Oh... Anna I hope you get your book tomorrow too!.. Was wondering how you were assigning the four different highlighter colors in ref. to what's in the book???

I am buying 2 copies for I know my friends will want to borrow mine and I don't wish to not have a copy for when we discuss areas in the book here.

It's getting exciting again!!!

[Observer]

[Observer]

Old Post's @ RWV by Dissapointed Aruban

justguessing:
Lorenzo's parents are both of Dutch nationality. His father committed suicide several years ago hanging himself.
I've known them for a while, Lorenzo is a crazy dude, definitely into partying and drugs but he's not stupid. He's too laid back to be involved into anything serious. I believe he may have supplied them with the drugs and that was as much as he was involved.
Posted by: Disappointed Arubian | Tuesday, July 26, 2005 at 11:44 PM
-----------------------------------------------------
That's not Lorenzo! That's another pic, Lorenzo looks nothing like that if you're referring to the son of the VW dealership owner.
Lorenzo's father was Paul van Rijn, he was a completely different man from PVDS.
Lorenzo is a gabber, shaved head, long skinny pale guy.

There is only one Lorenzo van Rijn, he's a tall skinny white Dutch guy who lives behind Savaneta. His house is a party as well as his van/car or anything he's driving. I've never seen pictures of him, I only saw him in person.
Posted by: Disappointed Arubian | Wednesday, July 27, 2005 at 12:13 PMPosted by: Disappointed Arubian | Wednesday, July 27, 2005 at 11:54 AM
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I never knew the Kalpoes and Joran existed until this happened. I don't know anyone connected to them except for Lorenzo.
Posted by: Disappointed Arubian | Saturday, July 30, 2005 at 12:10 AM
-------------------------------------
disappointed
I remember they found some items of Natalee's at Lorenzo's casa--correct--that does make one curious
Posted by: RONS | Monday, August 01, 2005 at 10:20 AM
RONS,
probably because Joran took her there for one of Lorenzo's house parties. Lorenzo is always throwing parties at his house, anyone can go there, he doesn't have to know you to have you at his party.
Posted by: Disappointed Arubian | Monday, August 01, 2005 at 10:22 AM
-------------------------------------
Angelus:
Lorenzo's father killed himslef shortly after finding out about his cheating wife and the divorce papers on the way, plus he had a depression issue. Don't post if you don't know your facts.
Two days before his death, Paul (Lorenzo's dad) was looking a bit down and was talking about fixing everything.
Lorenzo did not kill Natalee, he wouldn't waste his time on a girl like that. He's got better things to do, like getting high, throwing parties, hosting his parties, and spend most of his time in the VIP booth in that miniclub he built on his property.
I think Joran and Deepak are the main suspects here.

Realdebbie:
(About Rene who was murdered)I happen to know the ex-husband of the woman's sister. It is said she probably had help doing so, you will find it in my previous post somewhere.
Posted by: Disappointed Arubian | Monday, August 01, 2005 at 10:29 AM

Lorenzo's dad commit suicide. His wife and younger son found his body hanging on a rope in the living room at their home in Savaneta. They say that house is cursed because before the Van Rijns moved in there a baby had drowned in the swimming pool and there are rumors of a previous suicide as well.
Lorenzo isn't feared here! Lol.
Everyone knows him as the cool guy who likes parties. Most people like him or suck up to him becuase he's got great cars, big house with a mini nightclub, lots of cash and always the life of the party. Lorenzo doesn't have a problem getting girls, they're waiting in line for him.
Posted by: Disappointed Arubian | Monday, August 01, 2005 at 10:39 AM

[Observer]

I know TJ Ward was looking into this..I guess it was proven false ? 

Remember this shango readers?

June 26th, 2005 at 10:01 pm
Arawaks often go to play in small houses of Babylon with the offspring of the Elders

he said it for a reason...brb...
http://www.greatrentals.com/adminpublic/exb/multiple_prop_list.cfm?CST_ID=3083&SIT_ID=4979
after you see these addresses click back to the main owner#
It is PVDS house.
Posted by: Selena | Friday, August 05, 2005 at 03:12 A
---------------------------------
About This Property
Category: Single Family Homes
Address: Salina Cerca 37-B
Noord
Aruba
For Sale By: Agent
Construction Year: 1989
Area: 15,069 Sq. Ft
Bedrooms: 4
Bathrooms: 3
Sleeps: n/a
Stories: 2
Parking Spaces: 3
this is one that is listed,..see the address?
It's on the original URL links to PVDS house

Posted by: Selena | Friday, August 05, 2005 at 03:42 AM

----------------------------------
Alekia
Follow my posts,..the properties listed are RIGHT THERE.......the ones under MORE FOR THIS OWNER connected to the VAN der SLoot listing....
the Holloways need to know this
Posted by: Selena | Friday, August 05, 2005 at 03:58 AM

------------------------------------
the WHOLE LIST OF PROPERTIES...is the ARS villas
the villas are right there.
the main listing for the VDS property is backlisted as more for this owner on the REAL ESTATE link.
Meaning,...somone owns all the properties listed under that number.
like 10 properties...
the one for sale is 37 B Salina Cerca..
it links to VAN der SLoot
Posted by: Selena | Friday, August 05, 2005 at 04:02 AM

----------------------------------
then it bothered me even more when I clicked on the rental page for Paulus' Montana house and it showed ^ more properties listed, for the SAME owner......and one is right across the street from the Marriott.
Posted by: Selena | August 5, 2005 02:56 AM

-------------------------------

Aruba chamber Salina Cerca addresses
ARENDS JOSEPH ANTHONY SALINA CERCA 37-J
ARENDS-KOCK MONICA HELENA JOHANNA SALINA CERCA 37-J
CAROLINA ADELA SALINA CERCA 21-F
( I include this name as it appears to have a Wever connnection- Croes-Wever, et al)
CAROLINA-WEVER ROSA MARIA SABANA GRANDI 8
CROES GLENN RODERICK SALINA CERCA 25-H
CROES RUDY MELVIS SALINA CERCA 23-B
MADURO JUSTO ARSENIO SALINA CERCA 10-A
SEMEREL-VERMEULEN RITA ZAINAH SALINA CERCA 37-A ?
SMIT PETER JAN SALINA CERCA 9-C
SMIT-ARENDS EVELINE MADELEINE SALINA CERCA 9-C

TROMP ANTHONY JACINTO SALINA CERCA 39
TROMP-DE CUBA MARISKA MARIA SALINA CERCA 13-C
YRAUSQUIN RUBEN EFRAIN (JR) SALINA CERCA 25-I
YRAUSQUIN RUBEN EFRAIN III SALINA CERCA 25-I
YRAUSQUIN-ROBLES MARGARETH LINDA SALINA CERCA 25-I
Does this mean anything? The pond they drained is near the Raquetball Club, Aruba Racquet Ball Club.
The pond is called a salina, a salt flat basically, that turned into a sinkhole. The area nearby is called Salina Cerca.
Aruba Racquet Club- Rooi Santo 21, Noord, Aruba
http://www.arc.tennist.nl/
Map- ARC Surfside villas
http://www.casbon.net/gp-surfside-villas.htm
ARS- Aruba Reservation Services
(ARS Property Management Services)
Salina Cerca 35-E, Bakval
Aruba
Salina Cerca area addresses.
Posted by: Selena | Friday, August 05, 2005 at 03:19 AM
-------------------------------------
That YRASQUIN property?
YRASQUIN is the man that took over the Vw dealership when Lorenzos' father died.
Posted by: Selena | Friday, August 05, 2005 at 03:44 AM


EDITED:

******* - THE ABOVE RENTAL PROPERTY STUFF TURNED OUT TO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE VDS - THE OWNER IS ACTUALLY THE RENTAL COMPANY.  AGAIN, VDS DID NOT OWN THE PROPERTY. (klaasend)

[Observer]

RWV Archives

seedyrum - you've GOT to be kidding me
jaime does not look like lorenzo
Posted by: Melody | August 12, 2005 03:37 PM

Melody, so you do know who Lorenzo is, how is he related to Joran?
Posted by: cocomo | Friday, August 12, 2005 at 04:25 PM

No Response

[Hotshot]

Maybe Hotshots still has the For Sale information on Astrid's house.  Must be positively huge to accommodate up to 250 at meeting with 8 bedroom suites of 700 sq ft each.

Hi guys, yes I do have pics, but I am not at home.  When I get home later I will post the pics for you.....

[Nut44x4]

Afternoon Monkeys,
 Klaas, IMO in the video, the guy in the white T-shirt looks like LVR to me!!!!!   
Good stuff, guys, back to lurking

I agree w/ humbird ...At first glance of the first shot it does resemble Joran, but in the screenshot at the bottom of *******'s post the person looks like Lorenzo.

[Observer]

Found another pic of Joran in April/May 2007 from the end of his Book Tour..

[msmarple]

http://www.amigoe.com/english/  09/26/2007

Amigoe's English take on Monday's arrests. Also want to point out that although we have no addresses, the "neighborhoods" have been named all along - so that might help to determine who some of these people are. My post about this yesterday shows which "initials" were picked up in which neighborhoods. Quickest place to find it might be on the current page of the M&C thread.

Also, this article flatly names Luis Mansur.

Eight suspects dealing in narcotics arrested

The police in action during the raid in Nuñe and Cashero, Sabana Blanco and Picaron.

ORANJESTAD – Eight suspects were arrested during a large-scale police action in the early morning of Monday, September 24th.  They are suspected of participation in a criminal organization that deals in international narcotics, especially in the import and export of cocaine and heroine.  This criminal organization is furthermore being suspected of extortion, possession of firearms, and the laundering of criminal money.  When the special squad arrested one of the suspects, he fired a gun at them.  Nobody was injured.   One of the suspects is the well-known businessman Luis Mansur (63).

The action results from an investigation of the Detective Cooperative Team (RST) in Aruba, which has been going for a long time and was started under the direction of the Public Prosecutor.  Also six persons were arrested under suspicion of staying illegally on the island.

The RST was assisted by a great number of colleagues of the Police Corps Aruba (KPA) and of the Customs Department.  Financial- and digital experts from the Netherlands have supported the action.

The special squad was called in to assist in the arrest of some dangerously armed suspects.  Because the operation was so big, also the special squad from Curacao was called in to help their colleagues in Aruba.  Also special sniffer dogs of the Corps National Police Service (KLPD) from the Netherlands were put in to search for hidden drugs and money.  Ten houses were searched under the direction of the examining judge.  Firearms, drugs, money, and some private cars were confiscated.  One of the places searched was the office of a lawyer.

The initials of the arrested suspects are: H.R.M.O. (41), R.R. (45), M.V.C. (68), R.A.B.M. (28), F.R.A. (50), M.K.K. (28), J.A.C. (36), and Luis Mansur (63). 

All the suspects are locked up in police stations and are currently being interrogated.  Expectations are that the suspects will be taken before the examining judge this coming Thursday.

* * *

Problems with the set up a trade show

ORANJESTAD – Is a group that comes to Aruba for a congress allowed to bring its own people to set up the trade show?  The minister of Immigration Affairs does not think so and has therefore stopped all the set up work this past weekend and demanded that a local company takes over.

This happened in the Radisson Hotel that received a group of approximately 500 conference tourists for a trade show and expo of the company Telefonica and Movistar from Venezuela.  The set up of the show started this past weekend.  The Guarda nos Costa went to the place and ordered the work to be stopped immediately  based on article 8, sub 2 of the LTU, which implies that a tourist visa does not give the right to work.  According to rumours, a local company that wanted to get the job, went to the minister and told him about it.   

The group immediately brought in some lawyers that set the matter right, so the show could continue.  Most of the participants may not have noticed that something was going on, but this is a serious incident.  Because, that is no good publicity for Aruba, is the opinion of employers’ organization Atia, who says that this is the next example of a non-coherent policy.  Minister Briesen (Tourism and Transport) is pursuing a policy that focuses on increasing the conference tourism during low season.  The arrival of the group fits perfect in this policy, and Minister Wever of Immigration Affairs thwarts this policy by starting about work permits, while the group was already here. If this was a problem, the ATA should have informed the meeting planners in advance, so that they could have included this in their evaluation.   The action leaves a bitter taste in the mouth now and it has negative influence on a possible recurrence.

Just thought this second article was interesting. Don't organizations traveling to trade shows typically bring their own setup people?

[Anna]

RWV Archives

seedyrum - you've GOT to be kidding me
jaime does not look like lorenzo
Posted by: Melody | August 12, 2005 03:37 PM

Melody, so you do know who Lorenzo is, how is he related to Joran?
Posted by: cocomo | Friday, August 12, 2005 at 04:25 PM

No Response

Melody did respond to this question and stated that as far as she knew, Joran did not have any half brother.  I just read it on a RWV thread the link posted by Pearl at BFN.

.

[msmarple]

Today's Diario isn't up yet ...

Eight detainees from 9/24 operation - Initials, Age, Neighborhood/District if known:

R.A.B.M, 28
F.R.A., 50
M.K.K., 28
J.A.C., 36
L.E.M., 63 - Nuñe (Luis Mansur per Amigoe.com)
M.V.C., 68 - Nuñe
H.R.M.O., 41 - Cashero
R.R., 45 - Cashero

The 9/24 Diario article stated that 1 person from Sabana Blanco was detained (and BMW confiscated), and 3 people from Picaron. I think it’s likely that RABM, FRA, MKK, and JAC were from those two areas.

If any of these are commercial rather than residential areas, that might be the attorney's office.

[Anna]

Also, the properties posted by Selena at RWV turned out to be all the property listed by that Real Estate Agent.  None of it had any connection to PVDS other than the known property commonly referred to as the Sloot compound.

.

[Observer]

Interesting Article from 1999
http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/undocs/session67/view883.htm

Mansur Vs Netherlands
Snip

2.1 The authors are members of the business community in Aruba. Among other enterprises Luis Emilio Mansur is co-owner of a shipping company and Jossy Mehren Mansur is owner and editor-in-chief of a newspaper and co-owner of a trading company.

2.4 The report draws a picture of security in Aruba and mentions that foreign services fighting crime in the region are Aalmost unanimous in their opinion that the predominant image of the Aruban business community is one of joint services towards (laundering specialists of) regional drug cartels.@ The report mentions the authors by name and portrays them as criminals who were associated with criminal organizations involved in drugs trafficking, gun trafficking and laundering money obtained from criminal activities.

2.6 The authors claim that the allegations against them in the report are totally false and that as a result of the report becoming public their reputations were severely harmed. This led to serious damage to their business interests. They claim that by allowing the report to become public the State party violated their rights not to be subjected to unlawful attacks on their honour and reputation, protected under article 17 of the Covenant.

5. The Human Rights Committee therefore decides:


(a) that the communication is inadmissible under article 5, paragraph 2 (b) of the Optional Protocol;

(b) that this decision shall be communicated to the authors and, for information, to the State party.