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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #682 9/24 - 9/30/2007  (Read 224203 times)
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Rob
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« Reply #540 on: September 27, 2007, 09:27:00 AM »

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/9/27/


klaas - there's a picture of him with a female, maybe a family member ... if you want to grab it. (Do we need another one?)


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« Reply #541 on: September 27, 2007, 09:32:52 AM »

Quote
Eight detainees from 9/24 operation - Initials, Age, Neighborhood/District if known:

R.A.B.M, 28
F.R.A., 50
M.K.K., 28
J.A.C., 36
L.E.M., 63 - Nuñe (Luis Mansur per Amigoe.com)
M.V.C., 68 - Nuñe
H.R.M.O., 41 - Cashero
R.R., 45 - Cashero

The 9/24 Diario article stated that 1 person from Sabana Blanco was detained (and BMW confiscated), and 3 people from Picaron. I think it’s likely that RABM, FRA, MKK, and JAC were from those two areas.

<snip>

I’m bringing the above forward from Tuesday. Per Amigoe.com, the attorney whose office was searched is Mohamed Emerencia Duyneveld, and he was not detained. (It was “one of ten” locations searched.) Duyneveld has been Luis Mansur’s attorney in the past and that was the reason for the search. “M.E.D.” is not among the 8 sets of initials.
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Anna
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« Reply #542 on: September 27, 2007, 09:50:52 AM »

Tip probably came from Renfro  Wink
Cool

I always assumed van Loon was clean as a whistle because the only time Renfro EVER got near discussing the actual *investigation* on SM she introduced him. Even then, it was only a pic...followed by numerous  Shocked  Shocked and babble.


But much earlier scubajap had introduced von Loon at least by description along with Lorenzo at RWV.  She and someone I had always assumed to be Renfro or one of her many minions would discuss these two and attempt to make salacious connections to the MB students about them.

I think we were given Lorenzo Wever and no photos as a substitute for Guido Wever and to conceal and protect Guido.  It was Guido and not Lorenzo who was protected by all this and this ploy worked like a charm.  Add in the further fabrication of being related to the Sloots and a myth was created.  Remember Tito was also an employee of Julia and thus likely yet another AHATA shill.

These two, von Loon and Lorenzo, are in my opinion, red herrings put out to take the heat off Joran and Guido.  And as I said, worked like a charm.  I don't believe either is directly involved in harming Natalee.  As for supplying drugs, sure, that is possible but I have little interest in who did that for they could get drugs anywhere since Aruba is teeming with them.

This is just my most unpopular opinion but I do think this is how that came down.

.
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« Reply #543 on: September 27, 2007, 10:05:47 AM »

http://www.amigoe.com/english/  09/26/2007

Many tall stories about huge police action

ORANJESTAD – “I wished it was true that we have found one million florins in cash, but that was not the case, neither that we found big amounts of drugs”, said senior public prosecutor Hans Mos.  There are tall stories going around about the large-scale police action of last Monday.

“The suspects did have a substantial amount of money on them, but we should not exaggerate.  There are also rumors that we acted under the pressure of the Netherlands.  That is absolutely not true.  The decision was made here.  You cannot take any risk with an action like this.  We have therefore asked assistance from the Netherlands and Curacao.  You cannot do it with too few people, because you will otherwise endanger your own people. 

In retrospect, the big effort of 120 men is definitely justified.  That turned out to be necessary, since one of the suspects has fired a gun.  Also the sniffer dogs from the Netherlands were useful.  Here, we do not sniffer dogs trained to find money.  And when you do not have something, you simply have to hire it from somewhere else, just like any other company.”

Mos didn’t want to say much about the 8 suspects.  He did say though that all of them are active drug dealers in Aruba.  “It was not an international gang, but because they deal in drugs, they do have contacts in Venezuela and Colombia.”  An important decision is going to be made on Monday. {I assume 10/01/2007} That’s when the OM must proof that there’s sufficient evidence to keep them in custody.  For the offence committed by some of the suspects, like extortion, drugs dealing, and money laundering, there are 7 or 8 years of prison term.

LAWYERS CRITISIZED

One of the 10 locations that were searched last Monday was the lawyers’ firm Mohamed Emerencia Duyneveld.  According to Duyneveld, it was done nicely and politely.  The examining judge had only asked him and his colleagues a few questions.  Because during the past seven years he conducted negotiations in Venezuela as lawyer of the arrested suspect Luis Mansur, the OM was interested in his involvement with the drugs case.  He was asked not to represent Mansur as a lawyer for the time being and be a possible witness later.  Duyneveld can imagine very well that it was his ‘former’ client that drew a gun when the police raided his home.  “The assisting special squad from Curacao has used an igniter to blow Mansur’s front door down around 04:00 in the morning and ran inside.  You wake up with a start and protect yourself.”





Bringing this forward as it is quite a tone-down of the massive drug raid we were originally told took place.

And note it is mostly local with only back up asked for.

Somebody forgot to pay their bribe or dissed the wrong politico I still contend.

Is this retribution against Jossy for speaking out about the corruption of the current Oduber administration?

Also, is there no client-attorney privilege?  How can they even ask this lawyer to give information about his client like this?

If he can do it, why can't Joran's tell just what he meant by saying his client was guilty but Karin J had to prove it?

So now we are down to much smaller amount of money & drugs being involved.  With the inaccuracies reported in the news in Aruba, who can believe anything reported?  I still think this is politically motivated and has nothing to do with fighting crime in Aruba and more to do with very dirty politics.

JMO
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« Reply #544 on: September 27, 2007, 10:34:32 AM »

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/9/27/


klaas - there's a picture of him with a female, maybe a family member ... if you want to grab it. (Do we need another one?)






Thanks ROb

Thanks MsMarple

Interesting that Freddy is dropping the 'Arambatzis'  Wink

I'll have to modify all my 'searches'  Laughing I wonder if Ernesto dropped it, too.
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« Reply #545 on: September 27, 2007, 10:40:30 AM »

Sharon - if folks have to pay by the character (and that's an IF - I have no idea - and just assuming that they have to pay) - they might user short versions of names etc. Just a thought.
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« Reply #546 on: September 27, 2007, 10:49:49 AM »

One of the more fascinating things about this episode of 9/24, and the 8 people detained, is the initials/name thing.

A few days ago I posted something from Amigoe.com about Curacao being slip-shod (my term) about this - often using names instead of sticking to the initials. An exception noted was the case of "public figures". This legal protection of suspects and those convicted is from The Netherlands. I only posted it because we've pondered this many times, and it was the closest to an explanation we've gotten.

So - Is Luis Mansur a public figure?

I would really, really like to know who the other 7 are.

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Why did they have to disappear her body?

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Anna
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« Reply #547 on: September 27, 2007, 11:02:13 AM »

MsMarple,
If you could find coverage of this story by another country that doesn't employ this quaint initial custom, do you think the real names would be supplied?

Just a thought as I know in the EU sometimes the news from another country will have the names.  Not sure who else would have reported on this raid especially as it seems to now be shrinking in scope before our very eyes.

.
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« Reply #548 on: September 27, 2007, 11:09:12 AM »

Off to Work and Lurk but one last post. . .

Read 38946 times--The Murder and Crime Thread. 

There is always a link in my Signature and also that of MsMarple.  The original links were lost when the new format went up and I am not sure if any of those still work.  Those were the ones we sent out to so many people and I am not sure if they can find it in the new format so be sure to bookmark this to look up things later.

We need to keep in mind that this is the place where the crimes are collected and easiest to find.  I am curious if more raids are to follow.
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« Reply #549 on: September 27, 2007, 11:31:26 AM »

Tip probably came from Renfro  Wink
Cool

I always assumed van Loon was clean as a whistle because the only time Renfro EVER got near discussing the actual *investigation* on SM she introduced him. Even then, it was only a pic...followed by numerous  Shocked  Shocked and babble.


But much earlier scubajap had introduced von Loon at least by description along with Lorenzo at RWV.  She and someone I had always assumed to be Renfro or one of her many minions would discuss these two and attempt to make salacious connections to the MB students about them.

I think we were given Lorenzo Wever and no photos as a substitute for Guido Wever and to conceal and protect Guido.  It was Guido and not Lorenzo who was protected by all this and this ploy worked like a charm.  Add in the further fabrication of being related to the Sloots and a myth was created.  Remember Tito was also an employee of Julia and thus likely yet another AHATA shill.

These two, von Loon and Lorenzo, are in my opinion, red herrings put out to take the heat off Joran and Guido.  And as I said, worked like a charm.  I don't believe either is directly involved in harming Natalee.  As for supplying drugs, sure, that is possible but I have little interest in who did that for they could get drugs anywhere since Aruba is teeming with them.

This is just my most unpopular opinion but I do think this is how that came down.

.

I am of the same opinion on this.  There were many red herrings thrown out there by some nefarious posters.  The Lorenzo one seemed to stick around because he was made to appear more mysterious than others.  For a while now I have had doubts about any involvement of Lorenzo in this whole thing.
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SunnyinTX
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« Reply #550 on: September 27, 2007, 11:55:09 AM »

Charlierat has put a call out for people to meet at Beth's book signing:  Rolling Eyes

charlierat Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:32 pm 
 
O/T Next Birmingham Refugees Get-Together!!

Shout out to all Birmingham area Refugees. We need another get-together. What do you say?

Monday, October 22, 2007
07:00 PM
BARNES AND NOBLE
Ste 100 201 Summit Blvd Birmingham, AL 35243

This invitation goes out to everyone that reads it. And that includes lurkers and people that have never even registered here. I am totally serious about this.


Well I AM SURE the Birmingham police have been notified about the  possibility of a group of protesters gathering and the name of the organizer.... Wink
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Rest in Peace Caylee
Natalee, We will never forget.
Zahra, run with the Angels

PUT ON YOUR BIG GIRL PANTIES AND GET OVER IT!  It's not about you or me.....It's about the Missing and the Murdered
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« Reply #551 on: September 27, 2007, 11:59:51 AM »

Sharon - if folks have to pay by the character (and that's an IF - I have no idea - and just assuming that they have to pay) - they might user short versions of names etc. Just a thought.

That's a reasonable thought, msmarples. Thanx.


Or, he might be trying to keep his name out of search engines. (that's just my opinion)

Or, he might be trying to 'distance' himself from his brother and father.

I also remember similar confusion in the beginning -- was Freddie Z the same person as Freddie A....and we found out it was

Based upon Latin culture, I always 'assumed' Zedan was his mother's last name -- but I never checked.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #552 on: September 27, 2007, 12:02:32 PM »

Is Lorenzo involved in some way or not?  The conversation here is from FP and the subject is Lorenzo....who just magically appears among all this talk to mention that alibi?  That same alibi that Simian talked about first?  I know this isn't the Shango thread...nevertheless....

Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.

Comment by Simian | June 24, 2005, 10:45 am
Simian

I thought you were talking about Lorenzo or Maxito.

Comment by Lucy | June 24, 2005, 10:45 am


pktbk

The van belongs to Lorenzo Van Rijn. He was brought in for questioning a few days ago. He is supposed to be a hot salsa special.

Comment by Lucy | June 24, 2005, 11:23 am


kris….lucy told me it was lorenzo something something that was questioned earlier.

Comment by pktbk | June 24, 2005, 11:35 am


i didn’t know exactly who owned the blue van that checkme would often refer to. but now we know it is lorenzo something or other. checkme would talk about the blue van with big speakers. you can hide stuff behind those speakers. like drug smuggling and the like. so maybe this guy is a serial killer that no one knew about obviously, and that’s the way he would transport his victims….possibly to the water where he dumped all the animals he killed.

Comment by pktbk | June 24, 2005, 3:26 pm



The teenage students who are related to government officials are wrapped up with Lorenzo, his rave house and drug parties, and the young VDS, and have provided a false alibi

Comment by new girl | June 26, 2005, 10:07 pm


Something is going to happen to Lorenzo. Probably something that will prevent him from speaking.

I wonder if his father REALLY committed suicide.

Comment by new girl | June 26, 2005, 10:11 pm


I have been reading here for a few days, but I seemed to have missed stuff about this LORENZO, whats the story there and what about a blue van ? anyone…..

Comment by T S | June 26, 2005, 10:13 pm


Lorenzo the crazy, scary guy with the spray painted house / blue van and the illegal afterhours parties - Lorenzo who was questioned but released because of an alibi provided by Babylonians who couldn’t be disbelieved due to the positions their parents hold in government - Lorenzo whose father committed suicide and who may have a history of killing dogs, is this right?

Comment by new girl | June 26, 2005, 10:17 pm


If the Alibi is broken by DirtyHand the walls of Babylon will shake

Comment by Shango | June 26, 2005, 10:18 pm


I don’t understand, its all riddles to me. Makes no sense with the way responses are made on this blog. I have watched nothing but fox news and cnn for 4 weeks on this story and never heard about lorenzo. babylonians ????

Comment by T S | June 26, 2005, 10:22 pm


It is Lorenzo’s alibi that must be broken

Comment by new girl | June 26, 2005, 10:22 pm


Old treaties between the Babylonians and the Arawaks were maintained until the gods heard

Babylon now fears reprisals

the fires are lit

there will be 46 sacrifices

Comment by Shango | June 26, 2005, 10:23 pm



Lorenzo’s father owned a VW dealership and also had some sort of import/export business. He reportedly committed suicide and this drove Lorenzo insane. Maybe Lorenzo’s father didn’t take his own life. Maybe HE knew too much at one time?

Comment by new girl | June 26, 2005, 10:25 pm
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SunnyinTX
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« Reply #553 on: September 27, 2007, 12:10:02 PM »

Book

First night...

"The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name. 'Oh! Yes...yes...Joran. He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here. He likes to prey on young female tourists. Especially the blonds. He is tall. Good looking boy. Like a Dutch marine'."

Thanks igsigs....now we know where the DUTCH MARINE reference came from....an innocent reference turned into Natalee met and was in love with a Dutch Marine!!
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Rest in Peace Caylee
Natalee, We will never forget.
Zahra, run with the Angels

PUT ON YOUR BIG GIRL PANTIES AND GET OVER IT!  It's not about you or me.....It's about the Missing and the Murdered
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« Reply #554 on: September 27, 2007, 12:15:51 PM »

FYI: I have been on the phone with WalMart all morning....this is what I was told...the suppliers are not releasing to book to them..and if the stores have it...there is a date for it to be put on the shelves....most, not all stores will comply with the stock date..so I cancelled my order.....after being told that I would still be charged for overnight delivery...heck I can get it at the book store and in my hands before I can get it via Wal-Mart. Shocked
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Rest in Peace Caylee
Natalee, We will never forget.
Zahra, run with the Angels

PUT ON YOUR BIG GIRL PANTIES AND GET OVER IT!  It's not about you or me.....It's about the Missing and the Murdered
MumInOhio
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« Reply #555 on: September 27, 2007, 12:21:20 PM »

Book

First night...

"The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name. 'Oh! Yes...yes...Joran. He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here. He likes to prey on young female tourists. Especially the blonds. He is tall. Good looking boy. Like a Dutch marine'."

Thanks igsigs....now we know where the DUTCH MARINE reference came from....an innocent reference turned into Natalee met and was in love with a Dutch Marine!!


Thanks Sunny...I believe you're right.


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« Reply #556 on: September 27, 2007, 12:46:36 PM »

Book

First night...

"The Holiday Inn night manager, Brenda, knows him by name. 'Oh! Yes...yes...Joran. He gambles in the Excelsior Casino here. He likes to prey on young female tourists. Especially the blonds. He is tall. Good looking boy. Like a Dutch marine'."

Thanks igsigs....now we know where the DUTCH MARINE reference came from....an innocent reference turned into Natalee met and was in love with a Dutch Marine!!

i do believe you and igsigs have solved a minor mystery.  that's typical julia for you, take an innocent comment and make a whole tale out of it to suit your needs.
dennisintn
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #557 on: September 27, 2007, 12:46:48 PM »

I know Lorenzo is a touchy subject as is Shango...just thought this needed to be reviewed again...just in case...

NativeLingo

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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:08 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't know if his name is Lorenzo or not...
But from the very beginning "the son of an ex Vwagen dealer" was somehow involved..... He was the first one mentioned....



Mentioned as what?  A suspect?  The person that came along and picked Natalee up on the beach?  The party guy?  Take your pick.
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« Reply #558 on: September 27, 2007, 12:54:06 PM »

I know Lorenzo is a touchy subject as is Shango...just thought this needed to be reviewed again...just in case...

NativeLingo

Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Location: Aruba
Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:08 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't know if his name is Lorenzo or not...
But from the very beginning "the son of an ex Vwagen dealer" was somehow involved..... He was the first one mentioned....



Mentioned as what?  A suspect?  The person that came along and picked Natalee up on the beach?  The party guy?  Take your pick.

Lala's,

Yes, I agree that Simian was probably referring to Lorenzo.  And, yes, I do believe Simain was in contact with someone close to the investigation  But...I do keep in mind that people 'close to the investigation' may also be heavily involved in a cover up.  Whether Simian intended to pass on questionable information or not, if it came from ALE and was to be posted for all to see it makes me question the accuracy of the pieces of information that could not be validated by all.

And as far as Native Lingo's comments...never placed much stock in them.
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« Reply #559 on: September 27, 2007, 12:55:42 PM »

Tip probably came from Renfro  Wink
Cool

I always assumed van Loon was clean as a whistle because the only time Renfro EVER got near discussing the actual *investigation* on SM she introduced him. Even then, it was only a pic...followed by numerous  Shocked  Shocked and babble.


But much earlier scubajap had introduced von Loon at least by description along with Lorenzo at RWV.  She and someone I had always assumed to be Renfro or one of her many minions would discuss these two and attempt to make salacious connections to the MB students about them.

I think we were given Lorenzo Wever and no photos as a substitute for Guido Wever and to conceal and protect Guido.  It was Guido and not Lorenzo who was protected by all this and this ploy worked like a charm.  Add in the further fabrication of being related to the Sloots and a myth was created.  Remember Tito was also an employee of Julia and thus likely yet another AHATA shill.

These two, von Loon and Lorenzo, are in my opinion, red herrings put out to take the heat off Joran and Guido.  And as I said, worked like a charm.  I don't believe either is directly involved in harming Natalee.  As for supplying drugs, sure, that is possible but I have little interest in who did that for they could get drugs anywhere since Aruba is teeming with them.

This is just my most unpopular opinion but I do think this is how that came down.

.

Tito had a big part in the Lorenzo vs. Guido Wever confusion. Was it intentional? Probably IMO
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