Natalee Case Discussion #682 9/24 - 9/30/2007

[dennisintn]

Yes, he was offensive to his mama, according to Fred Maduro of KIA--who made so many interesting statements that he almost lost his job. (around end of Aug. '05)

Thanks Slogger and there's the one a few pages back with a girl and a knife in a club.  Let alone gambling, drinking and illegal drugs.  The Sporter seems to have been a walking time bomb.

per deepak, jvds also likes to set off fire alarms in hotels.  now there's a nice safe hobby for you.
dennisintn

[Slogger]

Yes, he was offensive to his mama, according to Fred Maduro of KIA--who made so many interesting statements that he almost lost his job. (around end of Aug. '05)

 Ah yes.  So it could cost you if you live in Aruba and tell the truth about Joran van der Sloot. 

Yup, sure can.  In addition, Maduro mentioned about Joran in a fight with another inmate.  IIRC, when the other guy was down, Joran was said to have kicked him.

Joran thought he didn't have to listen to the guards at KIA also.  I'm also remembering that about the time the HI story fell apart and Mickey John heard about the father and J2K sitting around the table making up that story, Nadira lost her job.  Hmmmmmmm

Maduro almost lost his job, but (I think) he was given some weeks off (without pay?)  Maduro mentioned an altercation between Joran and the guards.  The guards must have subdued J because it seems Joran behaved better, was more cooperative.

Mickey John mentioned a meeting.  Abraham Jones (thru his lawyer, Chris LeJuez) was the one who mentioned about the meeting around the pool.  The information had a ring of truth because how else would Jones know about a relatively new pool unless Joran told him.  It's doubtful Jones was ever at the VDS place.

We heard that Nadira lost her job.  Was that the one with the Steak House?

[LilPuma]

Don't know which job it was Nadira lost, but the timing was suspicious.  Mickey John did say that Deepak told him they sat around the table and made up the story.  It was an interview with Greta.  Then comes the police car argument between J2K where Joran blames Deepak for getting Paulus arrested.  Very suspicious. 

[msmarple]

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/9/28/ 

This first one is Jossy's front page editorial. I am not sure what he's saying; wish we could get a better translation.

Polis ta asistente Fiscal y no djis trahador di Gobierno
ACUSACIONNAN SERIO DI POLIS MESTER WORDE INVESTIGA
 
Ultimo gota den hopi duda den persecucion legal Aruba

ORANJESTAD(AAN)— Si DIARIO ta pone hopi enfasis riba persecucion legal, pasobra na paisnan caminda politiconan ta deshaci di proteccion cu Ley ta duna tur ciudadano, persecucion legal por bira arma politico.

E acusacionnan serio cu a worde publica ayera den DIARIO y for di cual por destila cu hora a yega pa mira kico ta participacion di e Ministro di Husticia den e proceso hudicial, mester worde investiga. E pregunta grandi ta keda pakico Nelson Oduber kier a mantene Rudy Croes como Ministro di Husticia mientras sucesonan ta duna tur indicacion cu Rudy Croes, hasta liga directamente cu L.M. deteni Dialuna den razzia, mester baha como titular di Husticia!

Cu e hazañanan di Rudy Croes como Ministro di Husticia, trabau di instancianan hudicial ta worde seriamente afecta den bista di publico. Mas ainda si Ministerio Publico aparentemente no por duna Pueblo e confianza cu e ta garantiza cu persecucion penal no conoce metemento politico.

E actitud di Ministerio Publico ta keda sumamente debil na momentonan cu Aruba mester di firmeza riba e tereno aki, manera expertonan cu a keda asombra pa e acusacionnan serio cu agentenan policial rabia a lanza contra Ministro di Husticia. Mientras Ministerio Publico ta haci su mes cuestionabel cu su declaracionnan, manera e hecho cu tabata tin mester di 126 Polis, incluso miembronan di Atraco Team di Curacao, pa detene solamente seis persona, duda na Aruba ta crece.


Ministerio Publico ta mustra cu e 126 agentenan policial tabata necesario pasobra L.M. a los disparo, pero pesey no ta hustifica ainda e cantidad di e agentenan policial, cu mester tin e calidad di conocimento di trabau pa sa con detene cada persona den cada situacion.

No por scapa for di e impresion cu, separa for di loke esnan deteni por ta culpabel di dje, tabata tin mas den e asunto aki. Manera DIARIO a relata, Ministro di Husticia cu ta familiar y bon conoci di L.M. no ta den e panorama cu ta worde pinta di e caso, cu ta parce un caso usa pa silencia otro hende cu no ta cu Gobierno.

Si tabata tin imparcialidad, e Ministro di Husticia no mester a ricibi ningun informacion di autoridad cu hasta mester a pidi Miistro Presidente pa evita cu e plannan por bira conoci cerca e Ministro, cu tin lazo familiar cu e detenido aunke ta silencia esaki.

Sinembargo e Ministro Presidente tabata e promer pa anuncia cu RST ta bini y e Ministro di Husticia tambe a plama e mensahe. Curioso ta cu Ministerio Publico a mustra cu e storia ta worde haci mas grandi cu e ta pasobra no a haya un lote di droga importante ni tampoco cantidad enorme di placa. Pasobra e acusado, familia di Ministro di Husticia, a dispara, tabata tin mester di tanto Polis.

Si realiza con e caso aki, hunto cu otro casonan cu ta parce arma politico cu ta worde duna na esnan den Gobierno pa usa contra nan contricantenan, a desaroya y tuma caso con Polis mes ta expresa su mes entorno situacionnan inaceptabel relaciona cu agentenan policial, asistente fiscal, e posicion di DIARIO cu mester investiga Ministro di Husticia, Ministerio Publico y sucesonan di cierto personanan den Cuerpo di Polis, ta haya mas forza!

Online Pap translation:

police is asistente fiscal y not immidiately
trahador of gobierno
acusacionnan earnest of police have to worde investiga

ultimo drop in much doubt in persecucion legal aruba

oranjestad(aan)— if daily paper is place much enfasis on persecucion legal, because at paisnan caminda politiconan is deshaci of proteccion cu ley is give all ciudadano, persecucion legal maybe arm politico.

the acusacionnan earnest cu owing to worde publica yesterday in daily paper y for of cual can destila cu hora owing to arrive for see kico is participacion of the ministro of husticia in the proceso hudicial, have to worde investiga. the question big is stay pakico nelson oduber wanted owing to mantene rudy croes because; ministro of husticia while sucesonan is give all indicacion cu rudy croes, even be similar directamente cu l.m. deteni monday in razzia, have to descend because; titular of husticia!

cu the hazañanan of rudy croes because; ministro of husticia, trabau of instancianan hudicial is worde seriamente afecta in view of publico. more still if ministerio publico apparently not can give people the confianza cu the is garantiza cu persecucion penal not conoce metemento politico.

the actitud of ministerio publico is stay extremely faint at momentonan cu aruba have to of firmeza on the territory here, as expertonan cu owing to stay asombra for her acusacionnan earnest cu agentenan policial angry owing to lanza contra ministro of husticia. while ministerio publico is haci his self cuestionabel cu his declaracionnan, as the mature cu was have have to of 126 police, incluso miembronan of atraco team of curacao, for detene only six person, doubt at aruba is crece.

ministerio publico is show cu the 126 agentenan policial was necesario because l.m. owing to los disparo, but pesey do not hustifica still the cantidad of the agentenan policial, cu have to have the calidad of conocimento of trabau for know con detene cada person in cada situation.

not can scapa for of the impresion cu, separa for of thing esnan deteni can is culpabel of dje, was have more in the asunto here. as daily paper owing to relata, ministro of husticia cu is familiar y good conoci of l.m. do not in the view cu is worde draw of the caso, cu is seems one caso using for silencia another person cu do not cu gobierno.

if was have imparcialidad, the ministro of husticia not have to owing to ricibi none informacion of autoridad cu even have to owing to ask miistro chairman for evita cu the plannan maybe conoci close the ministro, cu have lazo familiar cu the detenido although is silencia this.

sinembargo the ministro chairman was the previous to for anuncia cu rst is come y the ministro of husticia also owing to plama the message. curioso is cu ministerio publico owing to show cu the storia is worde haci more big cu the is because not owing to achieve one lote of drugs important neither niether cantidad enormous of coin. because the acusado, familia of ministro of husticia, owing to dispara, was have have to of tanto police.

if realiza con the caso here, together cu another casonan cu is seems arm politico cu is worde give at esnan in gobierno for using contra they contricantenan, owing to desaroya y take caso con police self is expresa his self entorno situacionnan inaceptabel relaciona cu agentenan policial, asistente fiscal, the posicion of daily paper cu have to investiga ministro of husticia, ministerio publico y sucesonan of cierto personanan in cuerpo of police, is achieve more forza!

* * *

Algun sospechoso a cuminsa basha abao…
DOS DETENCION RELACIONA CU CASO DI EXPORTACION DI DROGA
 
ORANJESTAD(AAN):Informacion cu DIARIO ta hayando ta bisa cu diahuebs den dia e departamento di seccion crimen organiza encarga cu droga a pone man riba un persona local cu lo tabata tin intencion di sali cu droga riba avion for di Aruba.

Aki ta trata di bolita slikker cu no a haya chens di yega ni sikiera aeropuerto. Tambe diahuebs anochi relaciona cu mesun caso aki a pone man riba un otro persona masculino na aeropuerto cu tambe kier a subi avion aparentemente cu droga.

For di bon fuente DIARIO ta hayando informacion cu fiscal Lugo lo ta tumando cierto decision pa cu e investigacion di e caso aki cu ta relaciona tambe cu e accion grandi di dialuna marduga.

Aunke ta ser papia cu esun deteni na aeropuerto na prome instante no kier a coopera, asina mes el a keda deteni y no por a sigui su vuelo.

Aparentemente tin algun di esnan envolvi den e caso grandi cu ta ser investiga cu lo a cuminsa basha abao pa cual motibo a pone man riba e dos personanan den dia y e otro anochi na aeropuerto.
DIARIO tabata presente na aeropuerto ora cu e detencion a tuma lugar.

Online Pap translation:

some sospechoso owing to cuminsa pour abao…
two detencion relaciona cu caso of exportacion of drugs

oranjestad(aan):informacion cu daily paper is hayando is tell cu diahuebs in day the departamento of seccion crimen organiza encarga cu drugs owing to place hand on one person local cu will was have intencion of leave cu drugs on plane for of aruba.

here is deal of bolita slikker cu not owing to achieve chens of arrive neither sikiera aeropuerto. also diahuebs night relaciona cu same caso here owing to place hand on one another person masculino at aeropuerto cu also wanted owing to lever plane apparently cu drugs.

for of good fountain daily paper is hayando informacion cu fiscal lugo will is tumando cierto decision for cu the investigacion of the caso here cu is relaciona also cu the accion big of monday marduga. {Seems these two also part of in the 9/24 "big raid" ? }

although is being talk cu esun deteni at aeropuerto at first instant does not owing to coopera, so self past owing to stay deteni y not can owing to follow his vuelo.

apparently have some of esnan envolvi in the caso big cu is being investiga cu will owing to cuminsa pour abao for cual motibo owing to place hand on the two personanan in day y the another night at aeropuerto.

daily paper was present at aeropuerto hour cu the detencion did take lugar.

There is a photo of of one of these guys …
I remember that Diario's first article about this mentioned that two additional people were detained, I think it said at the airport, the same night the big raid was going on.


* * *
This one is about Luis Mansur's wife, we *think* ...

SEÑORA DETENI DEN RAZZIA NA NUÑE A KEDA DEN LIBERTAD
 
ORANJESTAD (AAN): Ya caba debi cu no tin suficiente prueba den e caso supuestamente a detene varios persona cu lo ta meti den un supuesto asina califica labamento placa y exportacion di droga a laga un detenido den libertad.

Manera ta conoci cu den transcurso di e siman aki autoridad a tene un razzia na unda diferente persona a keda deteni como sospechoso RST Hulanda, RST Aruba combina cu asina yam experto nan riba tereno financiero, computer, cacho special pa hole placa (no ta conoci si ta Euro, Dori y shoco) tambe trupa di Team di Aresto procedente di Curaçao y poco di esnan di AT y algun polisnan local a tene un razzia.

Te asina leu segun informe ayera tardi a laga den libertad e señora di inicialnan M.V.C. di 68 aña debi cu no ta tin hustificacion pa sigui tene deteni. Mesora huez comisario a ordena pa pone e señora den pleno libertad.

Mientras su partner cu ta e homber di inicialnan L.E.M. si su detencion a keda prolonga. Ayera a busca contacto cu vosero di ministerio publico pero tabata envano pa haya mas informe si acaso lo tin mas detenido a cobra nan libertad.

Manera un fiscal a expresa e lo tin di busca evidencia pa e por presenta esaki pa por tin motibo pa tene e sospechosonan sera. Manera ta conoci cu RST a drenta den ofocina di abogado pa busca documentonan pa averigua si lo por tin haber cu evidencianan cual nan lo ta buscando relaciona cu e detencion haci.

Atardi laat, Ministerio Publico a emiti un boletin indicando cu e 8 sospechosonan cu a wordo deteni dialuna den e accion grandi cu tabatin relaciona cu trafico internacional di droga y labamento di placa a wordo hiba dilanti Huez Comisario.

Esaki a sosode despues cu diaranson fiscal a tuma e decision pa prolonga e detencion di tur e 8 sospechosonan cu 8 dia mas. Huez comisario a evalua cada caso y el a hanja cu e decision di fiscal pa prolonga e detencion di 7 sospechoso cu 8 dia mas tabata legal.

Huez Comisario a tuma decision pa pone un sospechoso, M.V.C., den libertad inmediatamente.
Riba e foto por mira un di esnan deteni, kende a worde hasta transporta cu jacket anti-bala.

Online Pap translation:

madam deteni in razzia at nuñe owing to
stay in freedom

oranjestad (aan): already end debi cu not have sufficient proof in the caso supuestamente owing to detene several person cu will is meti in one supuesto so califica labamento coin y exportacion of drugs owing to let one detenido in freedom.

as is conoci cu in transcurso of the week here autoridad owing to as one razzia at where various person owing to stay deteni because; sospechoso rst the netherlands, rst aruba combina cu so yam experto they on territory financiero, computer, cacho special for smell coin {dirty money?} (no is conoci if is euro, toad y shoco) also trupa of team of aresto procedente of curaçao y some of esnan of at y some polisnan local owing to as one razzia.

till so far according informe yesterday tardi owing to let in freedom the madam of inicialnan m.v.c. of 68 year debi cu do not have hustificacion for follow as deteni. at once huez comisario owing to ordena for place the madam in pleno freedom.

while his partner cu is he of inicialnan l.e.m. if his detencion owing to stay prolonga. yesterday owing to busca contacto cu vosero of ministerio publico but was envano for achieve more informe if acaso will have more detenido owing to cobra they freedom.

as one fiscal owing to expresa the will have of busca evidencia for her can present this for can have motibo for as the sospechosonan close. as is conoci cu rst owing to enter in ofocina of advocate for busca documentonan for averigua if will can have haber cu evidencianan cual they will is buscando relaciona cu the detencion haci.

nightfall late, ministerio publico owing to emiti one bulletin indicando cu the 8 sospechosonan cu owing to wordo deteni monday in the accion big cu had relaciona cu trafico internacional of drugs y labamento of coin owing to wordo take away fast huez comisario.

this owing to sosode after cu diaranson fiscal did take the decision for prolonga the detencion of all the 8 sospechosonan cu 8 day more. huez comisario owing to evalua cada caso y past owing to hanja cu the decision of fiscal for prolonga the detencion of 7 sospechoso cu 8 day more was legal.

huez comisario did take decision for place one sospechoso, m.v.c., in freedom at once.

on the photograph can see one of esnan deteni, that owing to worde even transporta cu jacket anti-bala.

That last paragraph is intriguing.

* * *

HOBEN ENVOLVI DEN BRINGAMENTO NA E.P.B. A PASA ANOCHI DEN CEL
 
ORANJESTAD (AAN): Ayera pa medio di vosero policial a keda relata e caso cual a causa basta consternacion na EPB Hato.

E prome informe cu a drenta e dia encuestion ta menciona cu tin pelea cu machete. Diferente patruya a bay na e direccion pa atente e caso reporta. Polis a wak un vehiculo modelo Mitsubishi Lancer color Beige. Numera A 10937 ta move for di e lugar.

Pero altura di e School di Medicina, polis ta wak tambe tres mucha homber ta cana. Un di nan ora cu e a wak presencia di patruya policial, ta manera cu ta un alma malo diabel spirito of Dios sa kico a pasa den su cabez, pero el a core limpi bay. Polis a sigui tras di e hoben, direpiente e mucha homber a cruza caya lanta bula riba hood di un auto encorto ala pelicula.

Ora cu polis a bay pa gara hoben aki el a cuminsa zwaai su man mas unidad a presenta y asina a detene sospechoso di inicialnan R.D.J. di 18 aña. Na warda el a worde pasa pa Juegd en Zeden Politie.

Polis a continua cu vigilancia y na cruzada Elmar nan a para chofer di un auto, den cual segune relato policial ta meciona ta tin un total di 6 mucha homber. A registra nan nomber y den baul a bin descubri un bate di baseball.

Despues cu polis a atende e personanan aki a core nan for di e lugar. E sospechoso principal si, R.D.J. a pasa henter anochi den Cel, y aki por mira momento cu el a worde libera Diahuebs mainta.

Online Pap translation:

young envolvi in bringamento at
e.p.b. owing to happen night in cel

oranjestad (aan): yesterday by vosero policial owing to stay relata the caso cual owing to cause enough consternacion at epb hato.

the first informe cu owing to enter the day encuestion is menciona cu have action cu machete. various patrol owing to bay at the direccion for atente the caso reporta. police owing to look at one vehiculo model mitsubishi lancer color beige. numera owing to 10937 is actuate for of the lugar.

but height of the school of medicina, police looking at also three boy is march. one of they hour cu the owing to look at presencia of patrol policial, is as cu is one soul bad devil ghost or god know kico owing to happen in his cabez, but past owing to core clean bay. police owing to follow behind the young, all of a sudden the boy owing to cruza caya arise fly on hood of one car encorto wing pelicula.

hour cu police owing to bay for grab young here past owing to cuminsa zwaai his hand more unidad owing to present y so owing to detene sospechoso of inicialnan r.d.j. of 18 year. at keep past owing to worde happen for juegd provided that zeden politie.

police owing to continua cu vigilancia y at cruzada elmar they owing to stop chofer of one car, in cual segune relato policial is meciona is have one overall of 6 boy. owing to registra they name y in baul owing to come descubri one bate of baseball.

after cu police owing to atende the personanan here owing to core they for of the lugar. the sospechoso principal if, r.d.j. owing to happen all night in cel, y here can see instant cu past owing to worde libera diahuebs morning.

Sounds like a bunch of boys looking for trouble ... I watch for "machetes" and "bates di baseball" and "arm di candela"  

* * *

ATRACADOR A HAYA 7 AÑA CASTIGO
 
ORANJESTAD(AAN): Diahuebs huez a duna su veredicto, den e caso contra Antonio G. Antonio G. a wordo acusa cu hunto cu otro dos persona, el a prepara y comete un atraco riba un cas na Calbas.
Algun siman pasa e caso a wordo trata.

Ta solamente JRCZ tabata presente y huez a trece dilanti cu J y E.S tabata esunnan cu a drenta e cas cu arma di candela y a mara un muher cu tape. Nan a puntre unda e droga ta y e muher a bisa nan cu e no sa di nada.

Lamentable y reprochable den e caso aki tabata e echo cu e muher tabata na estado. Asina mes nan a mara su mannan y su boca cu tape.

Den e caso aki fiscal a exigi 4 aña di castigo pa J cu E, mientras cu pa A.G el a pidi 6 aña, mirando cu e lo ta e persona cu a planea e atraco y mirando tambe un castigo largo cu el a yega di haya pa atraco caba.

Huez dia 6 di September a duna su veredicto di biaha pa loke ta J y E. El a dicidi di duna mas castigo di loke fiscal a exigi, mirando seriedad di e caso y cu e ta haya cu e atraconan na Aruba mester stop.

El a duna cada uno 6 aña. Pa loke ta A.G, el a bisa cu e lo duna su veredicto Diahuebs dia 27 di September.

Pues Diahuebs huez a lesa su veredicto y a duna e acusado un castigo di 7 aña. Huez a bisa cu un atraco ta algo traumatico pa un persona, mirando tambe cu den bo cas bo mester por sinti bo mes safe.

Ademas ta asina cu den pasado e acusado a yega di haya un castigo di 8 aña, pa un atraco arma na St Maarten.

Online Pap translation:

atracador owing to achieve 7 year castigo

oranjestad(aan): diahuebs huez owing to give his veredicto, in the caso contra antonio g. antonio g. owing to wordo acusa cu together cu another two person, past owing to prepara y comete one atraco on one cas at calbas.
some week happen the caso owing to wordo deal.

is only JRCZ was present y huez owing to trece fast cu J y E.S was esunnan cu owing to enter the cas cu arm of candela y owing to mara one muher cu tape. they owing to puntre where the drugs is y the muher owing to tell they cu the not know of nothing.

lamentable y reprochable in the caso here was the achievement cu the muher was pregnant. so self they owing to mara his hands y his mouth cu tape.

in the caso here fiscal owing to exigi 4 year of castigo for J cu E, while cu for owing A.G past owing to ask 6 year, mirando cu the will is the person cu owing to planea the atraco y mirando also one castigo largo cu past owing to arrive of achieve for atraco end.

huez day 6 of september owing to give his veredicto of trip for thing is J y E. past owing to dicidi of give more castigo of thing fiscal owing to exigi, mirando seriedad of the caso y cu the is achieve cu the atraconan at aruba have to stop.

past owing to give cada uno 6 year. for thing is owing A.G, past owing to tell cu the will give his veredicto diahuebs day 27 of september.

then diahuebs huez owing to read his veredicto y owing to give the acusado one castigo of 7 year. huez owing to tell cu one atraco is algo traumatico for one person, mirando also cu in do you cas do you have to can feel do you self safe.

besides is so cu in pasado the acusado owing to arrive of achieve one castigo of 8 year, for one atraco arm at st maarten.

* * *

[msmarple]

For those of us who are counting  ... This is just a summary of who was involved in the 9/24 operation.

Eight detainees from 9/24 operation - Initials, Age, Neighborhood/District if known:

R.A.B.M, 28
F.R.A., 50
M.K.K., 28
J.A.C., 36
L.E.M., 63 - Nuñe (Luis Mansur, named in Amigoe.com)
M.V.C., 68 – Nuñe ("wife of L.E.M." – No longer detained; insufficient proof)
H.R.M.O., 41 - Cashero
R.R., 45 - Cashero

The 9/24 Diario article stated that 1 person from Sabana Blanco was detained (and BMW confiscated), and 3 people from Picaron. I am guessing RABM, FRA, MKK, and JAC are from those area.

Also, there was this (excerpt, from the online Pap translation), supposedly part of the same investigation --

during night previous {Sunday night? Or earlier Monday?} to one another entrance violento owing to being haci at one hotel where owing to detene one aruban y 2 foreigner.

I think this excerpt from today’s Diario (see my post above) is about that part of the operation --

oranjestad(aan):informacion cu daily paper is hayando is tell cu diahuebs in day the departamento of seccion crimen organiza encarga cu drugs owing to place hand on one person local cu will was have intencion of leave cu drugs on plane for of aruba.

here is deal of bolita slikker cu not owing to achieve chens of arrive neither sikiera aeropuerto. also diahuebs night relaciona cu same caso here owing to place hand on one another person masculino at aeropuerto cu also wanted owing to lever plane apparently cu drugs.

for of good fountain daily paper is hayando informacion cu fiscal lugo will is tumando cierto decision for cu the investigacion of the caso here cu is relaciona also cu the accion big of monday marduga.

Not even ititials have been published about these three (although there was a photo of one of them). All we know is "1 Arubian, 2 foreigners".

[Tamikosmom]

Yes, he was offensive to his mama, according to Fred Maduro of KIA--who made so many interesting statements that he almost lost his job. (around end of Aug. '05)

Thanks Slogger and there's the one a few pages back with a girl and a knife in a club.  Let alone gambling, drinking and illegal drugs.  The Sporter seems to have been a walking time bomb.

I believe Joran still is a walking time bomb ... a walking time bomb that was created over the years by Paulus and Anita van der Sloot.  This young man was never taught that legal and moral boundaries of a ciivilized society were established for his well-being as well as the well being of others and ... there are consequences to be faced if he chooses to disregard those boundaries.  Unfortunately ... it is only a matter of time until this time bomb explodes again and ... another unsuspecting "Natalee" will be put at risk.

Janet

++++++++++++++++

John Q. Kelly
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
April 3, 2006

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times. And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process.

You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened.

COSBY: You know, and, John, also, why would that be a significant—why is that in conflict to something else we’ve heard maybe from Paulus before?

KELLY: Well, he’s just claiming that, you know, he’s kept an eye on his son, you know, he’s kept him on a short leash, and, you know, his son is very well-behaved. And it turns out that he’s, you know, got him at casinos. If you’re under 18, you’re not legally even allowed in casinos, so his son was breaking the law with him enabling it.

[sandy leiva]

Yes, he was offensive to his mama, according to Fred Maduro of KIA--who made so many interesting statements that he almost lost his job. (around end of Aug. '05)

Thanks Slogger and there's the one a few pages back with a girl and a knife in a club.  Let alone gambling, drinking and illegal drugs.  The Sporter seems to have been a walking time bomb.

I believe Joran still is a walking time bomb ... a walking time bomb that was created over the years by Paulus and Anita van der Sloot.  This young man was never taught that legal and moral boundaries of a ciivilized society were established for his well-being as well as the well being of others and ... there are consequences to be faced if he chooses to disregard those boundaries.  Unfortunately ... it is only a matter of time until this time bomb explodes again and ... another unsuspecting "Natalee" will be put at risk.

Janet

++++++++++++++++

John Q. Kelly
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
April 3, 2006

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times. And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process.

You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened.

COSBY: You know, and, John, also, why would that be a significant—why is that in conflict to something else we’ve heard maybe from Paulus before?

KELLY: Well, he’s just claiming that, you know, he’s kept an eye on his son, you know, he’s kept him on a short leash, and, you know, his son is very well-behaved. And it turns out that he’s, you know, got him at casinos. If you’re under 18, you’re not legally even allowed in casinos, so his son was breaking the law with him enabling it.

sorry Janet but do you know what happened to the depak case in california, against dr phil,

[klaasend]

Sandy - right now the way it stands, the K2's have been ordered to hand over all of the statements the Dr. Phil people requested.  The K2's have about 4 more days left to comply.  If they don't comply, it's possible that the judge could throw out the case.

[Hotshot]

OT, sorry about this, gotta go to work, but theres another forum they are all on.......  Heres Koen, and the Guy who looks like the Kalpoes.  His name is on the pic.  Have a good day.

[klaasend]

Raymbert Bikker - one of the tennis buddies

[Tamikosmom]

Yes, he was offensive to his mama, according to Fred Maduro of KIA--who made so many interesting statements that he almost lost his job. (around end of Aug. '05)

Thanks Slogger and there's the one a few pages back with a girl and a knife in a club.  Let alone gambling, drinking and illegal drugs.  The Sporter seems to have been a walking time bomb.

I believe Joran still is a walking time bomb ... a walking time bomb that was created over the years by Paulus and Anita van der Sloot.  This young man was never taught that legal and moral boundaries of a ciivilized society were established for his well-being as well as the well being of others and ... there are consequences to be faced if he chooses to disregard those boundaries.  Unfortunately ... it is only a matter of time until this time bomb explodes again and ... another unsuspecting "Natalee" will be put at risk.

Janet

++++++++++++++++

John Q. Kelly
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
April 3, 2006

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times. And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process.

You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened.

COSBY: You know, and, John, also, why would that be a significant—why is that in conflict to something else we’ve heard maybe from Paulus before?

KELLY: Well, he’s just claiming that, you know, he’s kept an eye on his son, you know, he’s kept him on a short leash, and, you know, his son is very well-behaved. And it turns out that he’s, you know, got him at casinos. If you’re under 18, you’re not legally even allowed in casinos, so his son was breaking the law with him enabling it.

sorry Janet but do you know what happened to the depak case in california, against dr phil,

Sandy ... I am waiting on Klaas or another Monkey to fill me in.   

Janet

[MumInOhio]

Sandy - right now the way it stands, the K2's have been ordered to hand over all of the statements the Dr. Phil people requested.  The K2's have about 4 more days left to comply.  If they don't comply, it's possible that the judge could throw out the case.

LOL here Janet

[msmarple]

I wonder if Luis Mansur's door was the only one blown off with an explosive device during that raid ...

[I dont feel tardy]

where is the insightful  "robots" ?????
IDFT

[MumInOhio]

I wonder if Luis Mansur's door was the only one blown off with an explosive device during that raid ...

Anything specific make you wonder that Ms Maple?

[Pita]

snipped.....

Mickey John mentioned a meeting.  Abraham Jones (thru his lawyer, Chris LeJuez) was the one who mentioned about the meeting around the pool.  The information had a ring of truth because how else would Jones know about a relatively new pool unless Joran told him.  It's doubtful Jones was ever at the VDS place.

We heard that Nadira lost her job.  Was that the one with the Steak House?

ORANJESTAD—- “The firing of Nadira Ramirez, the mother of Statish [sic] and Deepak Kalpoe, has nothing to do with the Holloway-case or the fact that she is the mother of the brothers Kalpoe”, so explains Ike Cohen, director of the Manchebo Hotel.

Hereby Cohen reacts to the expressions of Ramirez in a morning newspaper that says that her firing relates to the Holloway-case. Cohen: “We have given Mrs. Ramirez the reasons for the firings, both verbally and in writing It is not up to us make the reasons for this firing public, since we are of the opinion that it would violate the privacy of Mrs. Ramirez.

The alleged reason that Ramirez was fired would have been fraud. After being off from her work on Monday and Tuesday because of the freeing of her sons Ramirez appeared Wednesday again at her work in the Steakhouse of Manchebo. She was called to the Management, her thinking was that she would have been congratulated. This was not the case. In presence of her highest boss Cohen was she told that she was fired. The alleged fraud would have been committed when she cancelled orders that the clients ate or drank, thus Ramirez would have allegedly put the money in her own pocket. Ramirez denies to have committed fraud and is thinking of fighting her ficanceledring. Ramirez worked nine years in the Steakhouse at Manchebo.

[msmarple]

I wonder if Luis Mansur's door was the only one blown off with an explosive device during that raid ...

Anything specific make you wonder that Ms Maple?

The cops were all armed and were authorized to use brute force to enter the homes, in order to have an "element of surprise".

But the Mansur house is the only one that was specifically described as having the door blown off.

Diario also mentioned that later in the day, a carpenter arrived to measure the door for repairs -

during oranan of afternoon one carpinte in servicio of cuerpo policial owing to come for take measure y haci the reparacion necesario for fix the door cu the oficialnan owing to rebenta.

Luis Mansur fired a gun, and if I understand correctly, his wife (or someone at the house) called the cops - thinking they were being attacked - before they realized it was the cops breaking in. Again, if I understand correctly, that "911" call was verified.

One of the 10 locations that were searched last Monday was the lawyers’ firm Mohamed Emerencia Duyneveld.  According to Duyneveld, it was done nicely and politely.  The examining judge had only asked him and his colleagues a few questions.  Because during the past seven years he conducted negotiations in Venezuela as lawyer of the arrested suspect Luis Mansur, the OM was interested in his involvement with the drugs case.  He was asked not to represent Mansur as a lawyer for the time being and be a possible witness later.  Duyneveld can imagine very well that it was his ‘former’ client that drew a gun when the police raided his home.  “The assisting special squad from Curacao has used an igniter to blow Mansur’s front door down around 04:00 in the morning and ran inside.  You wake up with a start and protect yourself.”[/quote]

[Tamikosmom]

Sandy - right now the way it stands, the K2's have been ordered to hand over all of the statements the Dr. Phil people requested.  The K2's have about 4 more days left to comply.  If they don't comply, it's possible that the judge could throw out the case.

LOL here Janet

Thank you MumInOhio.  Thank you Klaas.

Is there no consequences for Deepak and Satish Kalpoe if they refuse to comply with the order of the judge.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++

John Q. Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
September 14, 2007

JOHN Q. KELLY, ATTORNEY FOR HOLLOWAY FAMILY:  Well, the key issue is whether the Kalpoe's have to turn over all the documents in their possession including all their e-mail correspondence between them and Joran Van der Sloot or any other third parties during the uncertain period of time after Natalee's disappearance. And we're hoping that it would shed some light on Natalee's disappearance and the Kalpoe's involvement with it and think of it (ph) if they're kind enough to turn it all over.

VAN SUSTEREN: You say shed some light. Is it fair to say this might be a bombshell in the case?

KELLY: Well, depending on what is in the records they have right now.  I know for a fact that the former prosecutor Karen Yanson (ph) had diligently turned over all the prosecution filed up to a certain point to the Kalpoes and Mr. Van der Sloot as the investigation was going on.  And I think having now seen the light of day and Dr. Phil's attorneys having these two questioned, the Kalpoes, taking their deposition, it could be rather powerful, to say the least.

VAN SUSTEREN: These e-mails and documents have never been in the possession of you or your client Dave and Beth, is that right?

KELLY: Some of them may have been, Greta. I have seen some of the prosecution filings, I've seen a lot of the police reports and things, but obviously there's a lot out there we have not seen yet and we would like to be privy to. And I would certainly like to see Dr. Phil's attorneys be privy to them.

VAN SUSTEREN: John, there is some question whether the documents will be produced. The Kalpoe brothers will say, we don't have them, they are in the possession of the prosecutor in Aruba. Is that true? Is that the way it's going to be fought at this point?

KELLY: Ibelieve David Koch (ph), one of the attorneys for the Kalpoes actually signed a declaration at the court indicating that even if the court ordered the documents be turned over, they were not going to turn them over, which was sort of, for lack of a better word, arrogant on his part. The court did not necessarily like that.

But I can't see them both using the courts as a sword and then a shield. They can't bring this action, they can't seek damages and not obey the orders of the court and expect their case to go forward

[dennisintn]

where is the insightful  "robots" ?????
IDFT

that wild child is probably out trying to tip over another house, it's friday, you know.
dennisintn

[klaasend]

where is the insightful  "robots" ?????
IDFT

that wild child is probably out trying to tip over another house, it's friday, you know.
dennisintn

Robots has been posting some in the Madeleine thread.