Natalee Case Discussion #682 9/24 - 9/30/2007

[SunnyinTX]

TO:  The jackasses at Refugees

What you just attributed to me was a post by FierlJepper at Scrux. 

forgive them Klaas. ..the idiots can't read

[sharon]

iirc -- Joran told Freddy the 'I left her on the beach story'.

IMO, that was Freddy's role. Joran used him to start the 'he left her on the beach -- and dat's da truth' story.

Up until that time -- nat was left at the Holiday Inn. But Joran told Freddy 'the truth' and counted on Freddy to tell anyone who asked.

jmho

[SunnyinTX]

From BFN-re questions for Dave and Robin:

{{edited because I firmly believe there is no place for a question like that in a family friendly forum - even if the original question wasn't posted at SM}}


Robin wrote:
I don't mind if Beth uses the name Holloway.  Matt has not mentioned it, but I think it is best for him since she is not married.  Don't most people that have remarried and the divorce take the last name back they had for the sake of their children?

I am glad you remeoved the original question...even though most of us know what it said....and I am HAPPY to see Robin's reply....it was what I hoped she would say.

[Anna]

iirc -- Joran told Freddy the 'I left her on the beach story'.

IMO, that was Freddy's role. Joran used him to start the 'he left her on the beach -- and dat's da truth' story.

Up until that time -- nat was left at the Holiday Inn. But Joran told Freddy 'the truth' and counted on Freddy to tell anyone who asked.

jmho

But Freddie said Joran told him that on Monday before Joran should have even known Natalee was missing.

.

[sharon]

iirc -- Joran told Freddy the 'I left her on the beach story'.

IMO, that was Freddy's role. Joran used him to start the 'he left her on the beach -- and dat's da truth' story.

Up until that time -- nat was left at the Holiday Inn. But Joran told Freddy 'the truth' and counted on Freddy to tell anyone who asked.

jmho

But Freddie said Joran told him that on Monday before Joran should have even known Natalee was missing.

.

Yes -- he did. I agree.

But what did he tell Freddy on that Monday? That 'he left Natalee on the beach'. That is what Freddy has in his PV. Per Joran's book.

Yet that night, Joran told Beth that they 'dropped her off at the Holiday Inn'.

Freddy was the first to hear 'I left her on the beach'. He heard that on the 30th.

I think Freddy was questioned on June 12 and 13.


.

[sharon]

Anna -- I'm not sure if you've read the Jonathan45 posts at Scrux.

He goes into a lot of interesting 'disconnects'  like this, imo.

The posts give me a lot to think about. And they're based on the things we think we know 

[Anna]

iirc -- Joran told Freddy the 'I left her on the beach story'.

IMO, that was Freddy's role. Joran used him to start the 'he left her on the beach -- and dat's da truth' story.

Up until that time -- nat was left at the Holiday Inn. But Joran told Freddy 'the truth' and counted on Freddy to tell anyone who asked.

jmho

But Freddie said Joran told him that on Monday before Joran should have even known Natalee was missing.

.

Yes -- he did. I agree.

But what did he tell Freddy on that Monday? That 'he left Natalee on the beach'. That is what Freddy has in his PV. Per Joran's book.

Yet that night, Joran told Beth that they 'dropped her off at the Holiday Inn'.

Freddy was the first to hear 'I left her on the beach'. He heard that on the 30th.

I think Freddy was questioned on June 12 and 13.


.

I think that Joran was attempting to frame the Kalpoes with this ploy.  He, Joran, would tell the beach story while they, the Kalpoes, stuck to the one about HI as instructed by Paulus, causing the Kalpoes to be caught in the lie instead of Joran.

Yes, Joran could have been counting on Freddie for back up, if I understand what you are saying, just as you suggest.  But there is no way it is to Joran's advantage to know Natalee was missing by the time school was out and he supposedly told Freddie this.  And to be so troubled, etc. about what to do.

Also the "they panicked when she didn't wake up" doesn't help Joran's cause much either.

So I am not quite sure what to make of Freddie's involvement.  If he had said Joran told him on Tuesday it seems it would have been better for Joran.

[Anna]

Anna -- I'm not sure if you've read the Jonathan45 posts at Scrux.

He goes into a lot of interesting 'disconnects'  like this, imo.

The posts give me a lot to think about. And they're based on the things we think we know 

I have only read some of those.  Are they all located at one place on that site? 

[sharon]

I think that's why Jonathan45 refers to Joran's book as 'Joran's confession' 


I've learned more about sociopaths in the past 2 years than I had ever heard in my entire life. I guess I was a little naive aboout that particular flavor of personality disorder.

[sharon]

Anna -- I'm not sure if you've read the Jonathan45 posts at Scrux.

He goes into a lot of interesting 'disconnects'  like this, imo.

The posts give me a lot to think about. And they're based on the things we think we know 

I have only read some of those.  Are they all located at one place on that site? 

Yes -- the 'bike thread' (or something very similar).

You might enjoy. He also thinks Joran 'framed' Deepak. Intentionally. From the start.

[dennisintn]

Well, I would be shocked if there were not any number of private clubs in Aruba.  But when Astrid's house was listed for sale, it didn't say anything about it being a club of any sort.  I think lots of enhancements have been made since she sold it.

I thought The Lions Den was the private club of choice for those that promote that line of thought. 

I have also never thought that Natalee was at a private club of any sort.  I believe that idea came from those who want anybody except Joran held responsible for her disappearance.

Just my opinion but it doesn't seem anything likely to me.  And the disinformation agents were at it from the first week.  Many of the very first posts coming out of Aruba were later totally discredited.

The more time that passes, my circle of suspects keeps shrinking instead of growing.  I even suspect that Paulus and Joran handled the original disposal themselves to prevent the involvement of others.

My bead is still on J2K+Paulus. 

JMO

.

anna, i'm with you on this. jvds probably got some help from his friends who also frequent these party houses but i don't think natalee was alive long enough that night to attend.  i truly believe natalee got ancy about not going directly to hi. and started raising cain.  she was killed resisting their efforts to subdue her.
dennisintn

[Observer]

I was just checkin out one of the Promo video's for Club Arias..At the end of the Video two of the people resemble Joran Van Der Sloot and Chuck Di Perri..Hard to tell since it's since it only showed them for a second..What do you think??

http://www.clubarias.com/mediatwo.html

[sharon]

******* -- I tried

But someone will have to 'freeze frame' it. I thought I saw GVC, too  Or someone blonde, anyway

I did have a vision --  of some of the faces changing on some of those dancers, though 

[klaasend]

I was just checkin out one of the Promo video's for Club Arias..At the end of the Video two of the people resemble Joran Van Der Sloot and Chuck Di Perri..Hard to tell since it's since it only showed them for a second..What do you think??

http://www.clubarias.com/mediatwo.html

I'll see if I can copy the video to my hard drive.  If I can do that I can stop it and do a screen capture.

I am watching it in quicktime and the resolution is terrible and it's dark..It will be tough to say for sure..

[Dayhiker]

Anna -- I'm not sure if you've read the Jonathan45 posts at Scrux.

He goes into a lot of interesting 'disconnects'  like this, imo.

The posts give me a lot to think about. And they're based on the things we think we know 

And while all the "disconnects" were going on between Joran, Freddy, the Kalpoes, and Paulus notice that Karin prosecutor Jannsen and lead investigator Jan van der Straten did nothing to try to get the truth out of them by hard follow-up questions. Paulus' judge buddies even tried to put the three perps together so they could get their story straight.

Instead, Jannsen witholds pertinent evidence from the court in the form of wiretapped information during Paulus' awards lawsuit, gives him a release from his suspect status, and the judges free all the suspects.

Is it no wonder the Dutch in Aruba look like the most corrupt bastards in the world?

[Anna]

Anna -- I'm not sure if you've read the Jonathan45 posts at Scrux.

He goes into a lot of interesting 'disconnects'  like this, imo.

The posts give me a lot to think about. And they're based on the things we think we know 

I have only read some of those.  Are they all located at one place on that site? 

Well, that site has just never impressed me much, I guess because people like Glenda and Medley are so fond of it.
Example:

Glenda- 03-09-2006


sunmoonstars wrote:
Glenda, isn't judge Smid the one the family thought was pro Joran?

I thought they considered everyone who doesn't believe the lies is pro Joran. 

My advice would be to go to Scux.com and be a judge based on the evidence.   Judge Smidt does not have to release him from suspicion until 2 years is up! If Joran could prove that he was not the last person with Natalee, the judge would most likely release him, less than that, I don't think so.

[klaasend]

I was just checkin out one of the Promo video's for Club Arias..At the end of the Video two of the people resemble Joran Van Der Sloot and Chuck Di Perri..Hard to tell since it's since it only showed them for a second..What do you think??

http://www.clubarias.com/mediatwo.html

I'll see if I can copy the video to my hard drive.  If I can do that I can stop it and do a screen capture.

Not sure.  Is this what you were referring to?  Can you tell me exactly where in the video timewise you see it?

[Anna]

Anna -- I'm not sure if you've read the Jonathan45 posts at Scrux.

He goes into a lot of interesting 'disconnects'  like this, imo.

The posts give me a lot to think about. And they're based on the things we think we know 

And while all the "disconnects" were going on between Joran, Freddy, the Kalpoes, and Paulus notice that Karin prosecutor Jannsen and lead investigator Jan van der Straten did nothing to try to get the truth out of them by hard follow-up questions. Paulus' judge buddies even tried to put the three perps together so they could get their story straight.

Instead, Jannsen witholds pertinent evidence from the court in the form of wiretapped information during Paulus' awards lawsuit, gives him a release from his suspect status, and the judges free all the suspects.

Is it no wonder the Dutch in Aruba look like the most corrupt bastards in the world?

Didn't IgSigs just post that the Dutch investigators had agreed with Beth that plenty of evidence was presented to the judge for holding them but he released them anyway?  From Beth's book?

It just goes in circles.

.

[Observer]

I was just checkin out one of the Promo video's for Club Arias..At the end of the Video two of the people resemble Joran Van Der Sloot and Chuck Di Perri..Hard to tell since it's since it only showed them for a second..What do you think??

http://www.clubarias.com/mediatwo.html

I'll see if I can copy the video to my hard drive.  If I can do that I can stop it and do a screen capture.

Not sure.  Is this what you were referring to?  Can you tell me exactly where in the video timewise you see it?

Yup that is the person I was reffering to..Will be almost impossible to get a good pic of that vid..I just thought it looked a bit like Joran with those eyebrows and shape of head..

[Anna]

anna, i'm with you on this. jvds probably got some help from his friends who also frequent these party houses but i don't think natalee was alive long enough that night to attend.  i truly believe natalee got ancy about not going directly to hi. and started raising cain.  she was killed resisting their efforts to subdue her.
dennisintn

Sadly, I agree with this Dennis.  Either that or they gave her far too much of something in an attempt to drug her with the same results. 

That's why Deepak went straight home and started trying to mess up the investigation.  Something bad had already happened. 

.