Natalee Case Discussion #685 10/7 - 10/14/2007

[MuffyBee]

Good question/s, GrannyToad.

[San]

Question for yas.

I can be dense sometimes. Sure, Aruba PTBs once thought it was best that American tourists go missing - disappeared - rather than found dead on Aruba. We heard that at least semi-officially.

I am in need of Enlightenment. At this point I don't know why Aruba's PTBs are unwilling to proceed with a resolution to this case.

Are vdSloots that valued? vdStraaten, Jacobs, Dompig? Renfro, Charles Croes, Kalpoes, Wever? Is this method of operating so deeply woven into the fabric of that society?

In my personal opinion I don't believe the Sloots are that valued.  This is all about the people Paulus involved in this crime.  He involved his friends (ALE), family (Political ties) and fellow Judges to help him get his son off.

Paulus said himself if he told what happened a lot of people would get hurt.  It is all because of Paulus Van der Sloot.  They are all protecting Paulus.

[Anna]

Question for yas.

I can be dense sometimes. Sure, Aruba PTBs once thought it was best that American tourists go missing - disappeared - rather than found dead on Aruba. We heard that at least semi-officially.

I am in need of Enlightenment. At this point I don't know why Aruba's PTBs are unwilling to proceed with a resolution to this case.

Are vdSloots that valued? vdStraaten, Jacobs, Dompig? Renfro, Charles Croes, Kalpoes, Wever? Is this method of operating so deeply woven into the fabric of that society?

Bringing your question forward, Gran, don't want anybody to miss it.

I don't know the answer but sometimes wonder just how important tourism really is to Aruba.  And like you, I have to wonder why they are doing this and why they continue to make themselves appear in an ever-worsening light.

[San]

Question for yas.

I can be dense sometimes. Sure, Aruba PTBs once thought it was best that American tourists go missing - disappeared - rather than found dead on Aruba. We heard that at least semi-officially.

I am in need of Enlightenment. At this point I don't know why Aruba's PTBs are unwilling to proceed with a resolution to this case.

Are vdSloots that valued? vdStraaten, Jacobs, Dompig? Renfro, Charles Croes, Kalpoes, Wever? Is this method of operating so deeply woven into the fabric of that society?

In my personal opinion I don't believe the Sloots are that valued.  This is all about the people Paulus involved in this crime.  He involved his friends (ALE), family (Political ties) and fellow Judges to help him get his son off.

Paulus said himself if he told what happened a lot of people would get hurt.  It is all because of Paulus Van der Sloot.  They are all protecting Paulus.

Wanted to add that basically Paulus said if I go down so do you.

Pretty smart plan involving these people.

[Tamikosmom]

Question for yas.

I can be dense sometimes. Sure, Aruba PTBs once thought it was best that American tourists go missing - disappeared - rather than found dead on Aruba. We heard that at least semi-officially.

I am in need of Enlightenment. At this point I don't know why Aruba's PTBs are unwilling to proceed with a resolution to this case.

Are vdSloots that valued? vdStraaten, Jacobs, Dompig? Renfro, Charles Croes, Kalpoes, Wever? Is this method of operating so deeply woven into the fabric of that society?

The Island of Aruba did not anticipate the strength and determination of a mother by the name of Beth Holloway Twitty. By the time that Aruba realized that this amazing woman was not about to be silenced until her quest for answers regarding her precious daughter were answered … it was too late to turn back. It was no longer just about protecting Paulus and Joran in regards to their role in the events that encompass that fateful morning … it was now about protecting those at all levels of the Aruban/Dutch administrations who were involved in the coverup … it was now about protecting the sons of the elite … it was now about protecting the judiciary … it was now about the implications of exposing Aruba’s dirty little secrets in regards to organized crime … drugs … gambling … prostitution … pornography … money laundering.

Granny Toad ... I believe that Aruba ... in hindsight ... would have made Joran the sacrificial lamb ... leaving out ALL other participants.  Joran would have taken full responsibility for disposing of Natalee's body when it appeared she died from the effects of a date rape drug and alcohol combination.  Joran was a minor ... the consequences would have been minimal ... maybe a period of time in a mental health institution and ... 2 1/2 years later the 18 year old American citizen who did not return from a graduation trip to Aruba would be a faded memory.

Janet

[Dayhiker]

The Island of Aruba did not anticipate the strength and determination of a mother by the name of Beth Holloway Twitty. By the time that Aruba realized that this amazing woman was not about to be silenced until her quest for answers regarding her precious daughter were answered … it was too late to turn back. It was no longer just about protecting Paulus and Joran in regards to their role in the events that encompass that fateful morning … it was now about protecting those at all levels of the Aruban/Dutch administrations who were involved in the coverup … it was now about protecting the sons of the elite … it was now about protecting the judiciary … it was now about the implications of exposing Aruba’s dirty little secrets in regards to organized crime … drugs … gambling … prostitution … pornography … money laundering.

Granny Toad ... I believe that Aruba ... in hindsight ... would have made Joran the sacrificial lamb ... leaving out ALL other participants.  Joran would have taken full responsibility for disposing of Natalee's body when it appeared she died from the effects of a date rape drug and alcohol combination.  Joran was a minor ... the consequences would have been minimal ... maybe a period of time in a mental health institution and ... 2 1/2 years later the 18 year old American citizen who did not return from a graduation trip to Aruba would be a faded memory.

Janet

Agree with all of you. Several friends of Paulus followed him to the coverup trough and before they knew it all were in too deep to turn back. Since everybody knows everybody, until they are arrested, then nobody knows nobody, and their dirty deeds everybody is subject to blackmail by Paulus.

Deepak said it best, "They (the judges) won't touch me. I know too much." They were all thrown over the barrel once they helped Paulus out. Police, government officialss, judges, the whole lot of them.

[San]

The Island of Aruba did not anticipate the strength and determination of a mother by the name of Beth Holloway Twitty. By the time that Aruba realized that this amazing woman was not about to be silenced until her quest for answers regarding her precious daughter were answered … it was too late to turn back. It was no longer just about protecting Paulus and Joran in regards to their role in the events that encompass that fateful morning … it was now about protecting those at all levels of the Aruban/Dutch administrations who were involved in the coverup … it was now about protecting the sons of the elite … it was now about protecting the judiciary … it was now about the implications of exposing Aruba’s dirty little secrets in regards to organized crime … drugs … gambling … prostitution … pornography … money laundering.

Granny Toad ... I believe that Aruba ... in hindsight ... would have made Joran the sacrificial lamb ... leaving out ALL other participants.  Joran would have taken full responsibility for disposing of Natalee's body when it appeared she died from the effects of a date rape drug and alcohol combination.  Joran was a minor ... the consequences would have been minimal ... maybe a period of time in a mental health institution and ... 2 1/2 years later the 18 year old American citizen who did not return from a graduation trip to Aruba would be a faded memory.

Janet

Agree with all of you. Several friends of Paulus followed him to the coverup trough and before they knew it all were in too deep to turn back. Since everybody knows everybody, until they are arrested, then nobody knows nobody, and their dirty deeds everybody is subject to blackmail by Paulus.

Deepak said it best, "They (the judges) won't touch me. I know too much." They were all thrown over the barrel once they helped Paulus out. Police, government officialss, judges, the whole lot of them.

The best thing about this is that Joran knows   Joran is set for life.  He has at least a dozen people he can blackmail.

Let's see.  Joran is $50,000 in gambling debt who will be first on his list.

[wreck]

The Island of Aruba did not anticipate the strength and determination of a mother by the name of Beth Holloway Twitty. By the time that Aruba realized that this amazing woman was not about to be silenced until her quest for answers regarding her precious daughter were answered … it was too late to turn back. It was no longer just about protecting Paulus and Joran in regards to their role in the events that encompass that fateful morning … it was now about protecting those at all levels of the Aruban/Dutch administrations who were involved in the coverup … it was now about protecting the sons of the elite … it was now about protecting the judiciary … it was now about the implications of exposing Aruba’s dirty little secrets in regards to organized crime … drugs … gambling … prostitution … pornography … money laundering.

Granny Toad ... I believe that Aruba ... in hindsight ... would have made Joran the sacrificial lamb ... leaving out ALL other participants.  Joran would have taken full responsibility for disposing of Natalee's body when it appeared she died from the effects of a date rape drug and alcohol combination.  Joran was a minor ... the consequences would have been minimal ... maybe a period of time in a mental health institution and ... 2 1/2 years later the 18 year old American citizen who did not return from a graduation trip to Aruba would be a faded memory.

Janet

Agree with all of you. Several friends of Paulus followed him to the coverup trough and before they knew it all were in too deep to turn back. Since everybody knows everybody, until they are arrested, then nobody knows nobody, and their dirty deeds everybody is subject to blackmail by Paulus.

Deepak said it best, "They (the judges) won't touch me. I know too much." They were all thrown over the barrel once they helped Paulus out. Police, government officialss, judges, the whole lot of them.

BINGO!

[Anna]

But would the punishment for assisting in a cover up be really that bad in Aruba?  We have seen their lightweight sentencing.  There are no laws in place against corruption, at least were not recently.

What's the worst that would happen to them even if exposed?  Nothing much from Aruba I am pretty sure.  Is it the international light they so dread or what?

.

[Anna]

Maybe it's the mutual ratting out that is feared.  You rat on me for killing the tourist and I rat on you for killing the drug dealers?

[Rob]

Tourism is important for Aruba for only one reason. The Clean US Dollars that come with it. They don't care about the tourist per se. They only care about the money laundering that tourism allows.

They don't care if the beaches are empty. Or the casinos. They want the 19% room tax and that is free clean dollars that the corrupt Aruban Banking System then uses to exchange with the North Koreans and others (cartels) in exchange for counterfeit or dirty money.

No Tourism - No Clean Dollars.

They make billions on the exchange rate they charge.

[wreck]

Tourism is important for Aruba for only one reason. The Clean US Dollars that come with it. They don't care about the tourist per se. They only care about the money laundering that tourism allows.

They don't care if the beaches are empty. Or the casinos. They want the 19% room tax and that is free clean dollars that the corrupt Aruban Banking System then uses to exchange with the North Koreans and others (cartels) in exchange for counterfeit or dirty money.

No Tourism - No Clean Dollars.

They make billions on the exchange rate they charge.

Once again, .......BINGO!

[truthseeker2]

The reason I don't believe it is as simple as letting her body be found and Joran claiming he left her on the beach and she must have died from all of the drugs and alcohol is because of the stories Joran told first.  In all of them there was an indication by him that Natalee hit her head.  This is what makes me believe that she did not die of a drug overdose.

The culture of Aruba seems to be very much along the lines of let the tourists come and spend their money here.  Let them do whatever they want, we even have a steady supply of drugs here that are so illegal in the U.S.  This makes it easy for them to blame the behavior of the victim for their demise if something bad happens.

I also think Aruba has a bit of a caste system.  The Dutch are automatically considered the elites, even if they are not very important.  Paulus seemed more indignant than he did angry about being arrested.  Could be he feels that these people are lower on the totem pole and they should not be allowed to accuse or detain him or his son.

I also believe Natalee died at the Van Der Sloot home and Paulus is just as deep in this as Joran.  I'm not sure about the Kalpoes and whether or not they were present at that time.  I do believe at least one of them assisted in removing the body.  I also believe that one of the more likely places for disposal was the quarry in Moko.  That is familiar territory for Joran.  if they did not have someone else dispose of the body for them, this would be my first guess as to where she might be.

Why are they protecting Joran?  Because the Van Der Sloots are Dutch.  They are the elites of the island.  Everyone else is supposed to serve and protect them.  Van Der Straten kicked into that gear right away as did Karin Jansen.  Not only can you not have dead tourists on the island, you can't have dead tourists who fell victim of an island resident...espcially not a Dutch resident.  Once they put the normal process into motion it was too late to tell the truth.  Telling the truth exposes all of them.  Can't have that...what would the tourists who bring their money to Aruba say?  How much would that lost revenue effect the island and it's money-laundering business?  While the current situation is not any better than what they feared, they have never been challenged this openly before and could not imagine ever having to tell the truth.  What they were trying to avoid is what they ended up with afterall.

I believe Natalee died from a blow to the head, not an accidental drug overdose.  Finding the body would show that.  I believe Joran and probably Paulus were with her when she died.

[Peaches]

Nice job, truthseeker.  I agree with you.

[Helen Back]

Tourism is important for Aruba for only one reason. The Clean US Dollars that come with it. They don't care about the tourist per se. They only care about the money laundering that tourism allows.

They don't care if the beaches are empty. Or the casinos. They want the 19% room tax and that is free clean dollars that the corrupt Aruban Banking System then uses to exchange with the North Koreans and others (cartels) in exchange for counterfeit or dirty money.

No Tourism - No Clean Dollars.

They make billions on the exchange rate they charge.

Once again, .......BINGO!

Yep!

[Lala'sMom]

One more thing.... This Birthday Thing...

Do any of the other perp or their friends share that same birthday?

Remember Shango saying that they had a suspect but his alibi was
tight, tight because he was at his birthday party?  Could that have
been Pitbull?

GVC doesn't share that birthday does he?

Anyone?????

I suppose I could be the anyone you want to talk to here.  Remember Shango did not bring up the alibi story.  He only related general information as to the workings and underbelly side of Aruba...he only talks about the alibi AFTER Simian brings it up.  I may be misunderstanding you (and I have read further and came back to this quote) but if you are trying to indicate that Pitbull was the person that had the alibi or provided the alibi for the 5th suspect then, once again, we must determine who the 5th suspect was.  This is a portion of what Simian says about the alibi:

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.
Posted Jun 24, 10:45 AM
Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.
Posted Jun 22, 4:56 PM |

When did Pitbull turn up dead?  What date?

[Rob]

There are two birthday's that I remember.
1. Koen claimed to be off the island and at a birthday party in Florida. I believe that was totally debunked and he was on the island. Something like 73 witnesses to Koen being at the party.
2. Sasha had a party that Joran attended before Natalee ever got to Aruba.

IIRC..

[klaasend]

One more thing.... This Birthday Thing...

Do any of the other perp or their friends share that same birthday?

Remember Shango saying that they had a suspect but his alibi was
tight, tight because he was at his birthday party?  Could that have
been Pitbull?

GVC doesn't share that birthday does he?

Anyone?????

I suppose I could be the anyone you want to talk to here.  Remember Shango did not bring up the alibi story.  He only related general information as to the workings and underbelly side of Aruba...he only talks about the alibi AFTER Simian brings it up.  I may be misunderstanding you (and I have read further and came back to this quote) but if you are trying to indicate that Pitbull was the person that had the alibi or provided the alibi for the 5th suspect then, once again, we must determine who the 5th suspect was.  This is a portion of what Simian says about the alibi:

Name: Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
Who said the alibi played for the Van Der Sloot’s? The 5th suspect is waltzing away.
Posted Jun 24, 10:45 AM
Simian | E-mail: xx | IP: xx
The 5th suspect has an alibi so strong that he has everybody baffled.
Posted Jun 22, 4:56 PM |

When did Pitbull turn up dead?  What date?

April 5, 2006

I think Patti is reaching

[Lala'sMom]

Thanks Klaas.  You know I like to keep my cryptic messages from Shango and Simian straight...adds to the confusion. 

[klaasend]

Thanks Klaas.  You know I like to keep my cryptic messages from Shango and Simian straight...adds to the confusion. 

I'm glad you do.  I agree with you, I don't like misquotes.