Natalee Case Discussion #685 10/7 - 10/14/2007

[Observer]

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2006/12/22/noticiadidia/news4.php

Here is a pic of 3 out of the 4 that went down for the mutilation of Pitbull..My gut tells me they were arrested for something else but took the fall for less Jail time..

[Slogger]

But would the punishment for assisting in a cover up be really that bad in Aruba?  We have seen their lightweight sentencing.  There are no laws in place against corruption, at least were not recently.

What's the worst that would happen to them even if exposed?  Nothing much from Aruba I am pretty sure.  Is it the international light they so dread or what?
.

Too late!  The International Spotlight has exposed slithering, and will continue to expose it.

There is a lot to be said for the blackmail theory.  I've thought from the start that it is carrot/stick.  Threaten and give them something they want. 

I agree that the blackmail theory is good, but there's more we don't know.

[GrannyToad]

So is "tourism" merely a socially acceptable buzzword for institutional sociocultural practices that we as their American touri$t ba$e would find not only socially unacceptable but outright criminally distasteful?

The whole thing is - I do not comprehend why by this point Aruba isn't making any reasonable attempt at resolution with Natalee's case. What we see instead is still blaming the victim, her family, her friends, flailing around with contemptuous attempts to blame anyone but their own, themselves, those among them who made the mess.

[MumInOhio]

From Beth's book,page 222, Peter de Vries reports that Joran almosts confessed on June 18th. Anyone remember anything significant about that day other than Paulus' witness statement?

An observation from Paulus' PVs
Paulus' 6/18 statement...Joran probably had his bag with him and there was a man ,FBI, named williams, with the family the night they came to his house.

Paulus'6/25 statement. He took Joran the bag around 8PM and there was a man named Williams with the family the night they came to his house.

Strange that Paulus can't remember much about anything, even what time he took Joran to the racqet club, but he remembers DEA Williams name in both statements!

IMO, he took the bag to Joran at 8PM, so Joran could sleep at ISA. The Asst Principal says he's been sleeping here. The Principal said he slept here last night when talking to the MB men.  The 'something bad' that happened, happened at the Sloots' and Joran couldn't stay in that house. IIRC, Joran was whisked off of Aruba immediately after his release from Kia. I would almost bet real money that he hasn't spent a night in that house since 5/29/2005.

[MuffyBee]

O/T Breaking News:
3 People Shot at SuccessTech Cleveland High School
Shooter at Large

[Dayhiker]

The reason I don't believe it is as simple as letting her body be found and Joran claiming he left her on the beach and she must have died from all of the drugs and alcohol is because of the stories Joran told first.  In all of them there was an indication by him that Natalee hit her head.  This is what makes me believe that she did not die of a drug overdose.

The culture of Aruba seems to be very much along the lines of let the tourists come and spend their money here.  Let them do whatever they want, we even have a steady supply of drugs here that are so illegal in the U.S.  This makes it easy for them to blame the behavior of the victim for their demise if something bad happens.

I also think Aruba has a bit of a caste system.  The Dutch are automatically considered the elites, even if they are not very important.  Paulus seemed more indignant than he did angry about being arrested.  Could be he feels that these people are lower on the totem pole and they should not be allowed to accuse or detain him or his son.

I also believe Natalee died at the Van Der Sloot home and Paulus is just as deep in this as Joran.  I'm not sure about the Kalpoes and whether or not they were present at that time.  I do believe at least one of them assisted in removing the body.  I also believe that one of the more likely places for disposal was the quarry in Moko.  That is familiar territory for Joran.  if they did not have someone else dispose of the body for them, this would be my first guess as to where she might be.

Why are they protecting Joran?  Because the Van Der Sloots are Dutch.  They are the elites of the island.  Everyone else is supposed to serve and protect them.  Van Der Straten kicked into that gear right away as did Karin Jansen.  Not only can you not have dead tourists on the island, you can't have dead tourists who fell victim of an island resident...espcially not a Dutch resident.  Once they put the normal process into motion it was too late to tell the truth.  Telling the truth exposes all of them.  Can't have that...what would the tourists who bring their money to Aruba say?  How much would that lost revenue effect the island and it's money-laundering business?  While the current situation is not any better than what they feared, they have never been challenged this openly before and could not imagine ever having to tell the truth.  What they were trying to avoid is what they ended up with afterall.

I believe Natalee died from a blow to the head, not an accidental drug overdose.  Finding the body would show that.  I believe Joran and probably Paulus were with her when she died.

Very good analysis truthseeker2. Aruba is being run like a plantation by the Dutch and for the Dutch, but rather than sugarcane or cotton they are harvesting drugs and self indulgence. The Hitler and black slave references Joran tried to pin on Natalee are actually his own personal feelings toward the locals. The Kalpoes were his slaves, he even implied so in his statements, they drove him around and were asked to fetch his shoes.

The personal favors by Van der Straten, KJ, Vocking, and the Dutch judges were nothing they hadn't always done for their own, justice be damned. The Van der Sloots were treated like royalty on Aruba whether they were wealthy or not. Others also helped we do not see or know, for instance, who is paying their legal bills?

[NYC_lover]

Good afternoon all 
Does somebody know Delano Williams?
Or does somebody ever heard from Delano Williams?

[klaasend]

Good afternoon all 
Does somebody know Delano Williams?
Or does somebody ever heard from Delano Williams?

Nope

[Observer]

From Beth's book,page 222, Peter de Vries reports that Joran almosts confessed on June 18th. Anyone remember anything significant about that day other than Paulus' witness statement?

An observation from Paulus' PVs
Paulus' 6/18 statement...Joran probably had his bag with him and there was a man ,FBI, named williams, with the family the night they came to his house.

Paulus'6/25 statement. He took Joran the bag around 8PM and there was a man named Williams with the family the night they came to his house.

Strange that Paulus can't remember much about anything, even what time he took Joran to the racqet club, but he remembers DEA Williams name in both statements!

IMO, he took the bag to Joran at 8PM, so Joran could sleep at ISA. The Asst Principal says he's been sleeping here. The Principal said he slept here last night when talking to the MB men.  The 'something bad' that happened, happened at the Sloots' and Joran couldn't stay in that house. IIRC, Joran was whisked off of Aruba immediately after his release from Kia. I would almost bet real money that he hasn't spent a night in that house since 5/29/2005.

Yes..That is the day(18th)they found Rene's body at the cemetary..The day before is when they arrested Steve Croes..

[Dayhiker]

So is "tourism" merely a socially acceptable buzzword for institutional sociocultural practices that we as their American touri$t ba$e would find not only socially unacceptable but outright criminally distasteful?

The whole thing is - I do not comprehend why by this point Aruba isn't making any reasonable attempt at resolution with Natalee's case. What we see instead is still blaming the victim, her family, her friends, flailing around with contemptuous attempts to blame anyone but their own, themselves, those among them who made the mess.

Ingrained into their thought process because it always worked before. Beth went against the norm of believing they were honest and taking them at their word they were doing a real investigation. The sheer transparency of their worthless actions and throwing up of roadblocks shows just how entrenched they were into conducting sham investigations for pure show, waiting for the grieving family to give up so they could return to making money. The latest article in Amigoe proves they haven't learned one damn thing from all of this.

[Hotshot]

*******, that one pic that you showed was Rene, in the black body bag.  He wasn't in the group of people sort to speak.

Patti, Someone sent you a pic of Richard?  I talk to him every day, and just sent a pic to 2 people.  He asked me to.  Can you email me through Klaas? 

[MumInOhio]

Thank You, *******...interesting on both points

[NYC_lover]

Good afternoon all 
Does somebody know Delano Williams?
Or does somebody ever heard from Delano Williams?

Nope

Klaasend - thank you.
Do u know with who Carol Williams is connected?
Or does somebody else know?

[Observer]

*******, that one pic that you showed was Rene, in the black body bag.  He wasn't in the group of people sort to speak.

Patti, Someone sent you a pic of Richard?  I talk to him every day, and just sent a pic to 2 people.  He asked me to.  Can you email me through Klaas? 

Edit to add..Yes I know he was in the body bag and not one of the people carrying it

[klaasend]

Good afternoon all 
Does somebody know Delano Williams?
Or does somebody ever heard from Delano Williams?

Nope

Klaasend - thank you.
Do u know with who Carol Williams is connected?
Or does somebody else know?

Williams is a very common name.  Can you tell me what this is all about?

[Helen Back]

Good afternoon all 
Does somebody know Delano Williams?
Or does somebody ever heard from Delano Williams?

Nope

Klaasend - thank you.
Do u know with who Carol Williams is connected?
Or does somebody else know?

Williams is a very common name.  Can you tell me what this is all about?

Carol J. Willams is a reporter for the LA times that wrote an article about Natalee earlier this year......She had the Aruba spin cycle going!

[SunFreak2]

Agree with all of you. Several friends of Paulus followed him to the coverup trough and before they knew it all were in too deep to turn back. Since everybody knows everybody, until they are arrested, then nobody knows nobody, and their dirty deeds everybody is subject to blackmail by Paulus.

Deepak said it best, "They (the judges) won't touch me. I know too much." They were all thrown over the barrel once they helped Paulus out. Police, government officialss, judges, the whole lot of them.

Yes. look at all the people who goot involved on Paulus's behalf.  Judge Witt who changed the parameters of the first search warrnt of the Sloot residence. Vocking.  Judge Smid who let the boys out of prison on the day the Natural Bridge Collapsed (I believe that was divine intervention).
Jan van der Straaaten who is a collegue & friend to Paulus and possible godfather to Joran. And the list goes on........

[NYC_lover]

Good afternoon all 
Does somebody know Delano Williams?
Or does somebody ever heard from Delano Williams?

Nope

Klaasend - thank you.
Do u know with who Carol Williams is connected?
Or does somebody else know?

Williams is a very common name.  Can you tell me what this is all about?

Klaasend - Nothing importants,  about Delano and Carol.

[NYC_lover]

Williams is a very common name.  Can you tell me what this is all about?

Carol J. Willams is a reporter for the LA times that wrote an article about Natalee earlier this year......She had the Aruba spin cycle going!

Helen - thanks for remember. I like NY time, never read LA.
Soon time to go to LA. It like very nice and can read the news paper then. 

[Tamikosmom]

I would not waste my time refuting words that would not be taken seriously by anybody. However ... I am concerned about the article by Carol J. Williams which appeared in both the LA Times and the Seattle Times. The article does have a ring of credibility. Readers who do not possess an indepth knowledge of the Natalee Holloway Case as well as the Aruban agenda being furthered by Julia Renfro could be taken in. I firmly believe that in the very near future Aruba is going to declare the Natalee Holloway case closed.  This anticipated move implies that it is crucial that the words in this article are publicly refuted in the mainstream media.  If Julia Renfro is not challenged ... this and similar articles could lay the foundation of acceptance when Aruba justifies their motives by placing the blame on Natalee for her own demise ... undermines Beth Holloway Twitty's genuine quest for answers and ... distances Paulus and Joran van der Sloot from implication.

When you consider his writing skills ... maybe our Richard is willing to take on the task of convincing writers of mainstream publications to  respectively submit an article that reveals another perspective ... a perspective that exposes the truth ... a perspective that has notunderlying motives except JUSTICE FOR NATALEE!

Janet

++++++++++++++++


As missing-teen case cools, Aruba turns against family
By Carol J. Williams
Los Angeles Times

<snipped>

American Julia Renfro, editor-in-chief of Aruba Today, initially sided with Holloway's parents when they sought publicity and lambasted Aruban police for following Dutch investigative procedures different from those in the United States.

Galvanized by compassion for a desperate mother, Renfro stopped the presses of her daily newspaper for the first time in its history to include a picture of Holloway to aid Arubans in the islandwide search.

Renfro, a mother of four, spent weeks shuttling the family from the scene of one rumored development to another, but she became disenchanted with what she saw as Twitty's pandering to tabloid TV and "flat-out lies" she told on the air.  "I feel guilty saying any negative thing about a mother who has lost her daughter," Renfro said. "But her behavior was odd from the get-go."

Renfro has concluded that the body would have turned up by now if she died on the island proper. She -- and many Arubans -- doubts the three suspects, all good students without criminal records, could have pulled off a perfect crime, never caving in to intense interrogations.

"I've spoken with all of the suspects," she said. "I don't believe any of them did anything to her."

Heavily intoxicated, according to accounts given by her classmates to the FBI, Holloway could have staggered into the sea and drowned after the local men left her, Renfro speculated.

Holloway might have died of alcohol poisoning or a drug overdose and washed out to sea, as Deputy Police Chief Gerold Dompig surmised. She might have climbed aboard one of dozens of catamarans and cabin cruisers for late-night partying after a nearby concert.

Renfro says she was perplexed when Twitty immediately concluded that her daughter had been kidnapped and made no effort to check hospitals or police about accident victims. Within hours, Twitty had concluded van der Sloot was responsible, and within a couple of days she was telling TV interviewers that she knew her daughter had been gang-raped and murdered.

<snipped>

+++++++++++++++

Please read entire article at:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003741183_aruba09.html