Natalee Case Discussion #685 10/7 - 10/14/2007

[klaasend]

Patti - just responded

GOODNIGHT ALL!

[AZLady]

No he wasn't there age as he was born in 1973. He lived and work in the San Nicolas area so it is possible he saw something. He missed 2 days of work and two men were said to be involved. I read as much as I could about him and I am highly suspicious about everything including that this little lady carried out this horrendous murder. I wonder how here appeals made out? She even in prison?

I am also interested in Ruth Dijhkof, the bank employee who also died as she is in PVDS statement. I dont see anything suspicious and I have no idea how she died but the whole ATM/Bank thing still does not make sense. I dont think Joran came in 4th place and I do not think he won any money at all. I play a great deal of Texas Hold Em and I find it highly unlikely he won anything. First of all it was illegal for Joran to be playing and I am not sure they would let Joran take his fathers seat after he was just eliminated. I thought there was a PV from one of his friends that Joran didnt have any money after that tourney as he let him borrow a few bucks? Also why would PVDS be going to the bank to deposit a measly $100 bucks or so?? We know Joran lost $250 in one sitting at the black jack table.

But how could Rene have been tied to Natalee's murder and disposal of her body?  If he were a witness, then the assumption would be that PVDS hired someone to slit Rene's throat and dump him at the cemetary entrance as a warning to others?  Somehow, this just doesn't add up.  PVDS would be involving another person(s) by hiring the murderers of Rene, and I just don't think that happened.  Besides, Rene's murder was so graphic that it called attention to itself, and PVDS would want to do the opposite--keeping the appearance of normality and business as usual.  I'm leaning more towards Rene's murder being a drug cartel hit and a coincidence in timing. 

I really do not believe Paulus was at the bank twice on Monday.  However, if he was not at his office, then he needed to account for his absence.  Thus, he made up the lie of visiting the bank at 10 am when he really was somewhere else, probaby at the police station or meeting van der Stratten to discuss the details of how to deal with the parents when they showed up.  Then, PVDS said he went to the bank again at 3 PM that same day and talked to Ruth Dijhkof, the bank teller.  Such a coincidence, Ruth is dead!  She cannot corroborate his 3 PM bank visit--such a shame!  Hogwash!  PVDS was not at the bank at 3 PM either.  However, he left his office at 3 PM and does not want to say where he went.  He arrived home at 4:30 PM.  I would bet that he was disposing of Natalee's body at this time, most likely using Koen's father's boat.  I think PVDS would do this alone, realizing that the fewer people who saw the disposal, the better his likelihood of success.  Isn't 1 1/2 hours just about enough time to take the body to the boat, launch the boat, drive it to the open water, dispose of the body and bring the boat back?

[AZLady]

Night Klaas.  Does that mean the lights are out? 

[Buckeye]

Osman Osman

On your question if Deepak had told me how he knew that the missing American little girl Natalee Ann HOLLOWAY on Monday, 30 May 2005, in the night time hours, had only her identification document (drivers license) and an amount of US $50, =, in her possession, I answer you the following:

At absolutely no moment did Deepak tell me how he knew that missing little girl only had her identity card and US $50, =, in her possession. You must ask it to Deepak.

Maybe Paulus had to get to the bank to deposit $50 that would have fingerprints on the bills??

[KarmaRoundUp]

No he wasn't there age as he was born in 1973. He lived and work in the San Nicolas area so it is possible he saw something. He missed 2 days of work and two men were said to be involved. I read as much as I could about him and I am highly suspicious about everything including that this little lady carried out this horrendous murder. I wonder how here appeals made out? She even in prison?

I am also interested in Ruth Dijhkof, the bank employee who also died as she is in PVDS statement. I dont see anything suspicious and I have no idea how she died but the whole ATM/Bank thing still does not make sense. I dont think Joran came in 4th place and I do not think he won any money at all. I play a great deal of Texas Hold Em and I find it highly unlikely he won anything. First of all it was illegal for Joran to be playing and I am not sure they would let Joran take his fathers seat after he was just eliminated. I thought there was a PV from one of his friends that Joran didnt have any money after that tourney as he let him borrow a few bucks? Also why would PVDS be going to the bank to deposit a measly $100 bucks or so?? We know Joran lost $250 in one sitting at the black jack table.

But how could Rene have been tied to Natalee's murder and disposal of her body?  If he were a witness, then the assumption would be that PVDS hired someone to slit Rene's throat and dump him at the cemetary entrance as a warning to others?  Somehow, this just doesn't add up.  PVDS would be involving another person(s) by hiring the murderers of Rene, and I just don't think that happened.  Besides, Rene's murder was so graphic that it called attention to itself, and PVDS would want to do the opposite--keeping the appearance of normality and business as usual.  I'm leaning more towards Rene's murder being a drug cartel hit and a coincidence in timing. 

I really do not believe Paulus was at the bank twice on Monday.  However, if he was not at his office, then he needed to account for his absence.  Thus, he made up the lie of visiting the bank at 10 am when he really was somewhere else, probaby at the police station or meeting van der Stratten to discuss the details of how to deal with the parents when they showed up.  Then, PVDS said he went to the bank again at 3 PM that same day and talked to Ruth Dijhkof, the bank teller.  Such a coincidence, Ruth is dead!  She cannot corroborate his 3 PM bank visit--such a shame!  Hogwash!  PVDS was not at the bank at 3 PM either.  However, he left his office at 3 PM and does not want to say where he went.  He arrived home at 4:30 PM.  I would bet that he was disposing of Natalee's body at this time, most likely using Koen's father's boat.  I think PVDS would do this alone, realizing that the fewer people who saw the disposal, the better his likelihood of success.  Isn't 1 1/2 hours just about enough time to take the body to the boat, launch the boat, drive it to the open water, dispose of the body and bring the boat back?

Interesting.....also,why was Paulus looking up info at 7 pm that monday night,about drugs/alcohol effects?
I think Paulus is a very weak minded guy....if anyone was killed for what they knew and any body disposel done,it was handled by those in aruba's LE and government.Afterall.....Paulus had a son to protect and the rest of them had a once happy island(tourists=$$$$)to protect....at all costs.

[wreck]

No he wasn't there age as he was born in 1973. He lived and work in the San Nicolas area so it is possible he saw something. He missed 2 days of work and two men were said to be involved. I read as much as I could about him and I am highly suspicious about everything including that this little lady carried out this horrendous murder. I wonder how here appeals made out? She even in prison?

I am also interested in Ruth Dijhkof, the bank employee who also died as she is in PVDS statement. I dont see anything suspicious and I have no idea how she died but the whole ATM/Bank thing still does not make sense. I dont think Joran came in 4th place and I do not think he won any money at all. I play a great deal of Texas Hold Em and I find it highly unlikely he won anything. First of all it was illegal for Joran to be playing and I am not sure they would let Joran take his fathers seat after he was just eliminated. I thought there was a PV from one of his friends that Joran didnt have any money after that tourney as he let him borrow a few bucks? Also why would PVDS be going to the bank to deposit a measly $100 bucks or so?? We know Joran lost $250 in one sitting at the black jack table.

But how could Rene have been tied to Natalee's murder and disposal of her body?  If he were a witness, then the assumption would be that PVDS hired someone to slit Rene's throat and dump him at the cemetary entrance as a warning to others?  Somehow, this just doesn't add up.  PVDS would be involving another person(s) by hiring the murderers of Rene, and I just don't think that happened.  Besides, Rene's murder was so graphic that it called attention to itself, and PVDS would want to do the opposite--keeping the appearance of normality and business as usual.  I'm leaning more towards Rene's murder being a drug cartel hit and a coincidence in timing. 

I really do not believe Paulus was at the bank twice on Monday.  However, if he was not at his office, then he needed to account for his absence.  Thus, he made up the lie of visiting the bank at 10 am when he really was somewhere else, probaby at the police station or meeting van der Stratten to discuss the details of how to deal with the parents when they showed up.  Then, PVDS said he went to the bank again at 3 PM that same day and talked to Ruth Dijhkof, the bank teller.  Such a coincidence, Ruth is dead!  She cannot corroborate his 3 PM bank visit--such a shame!  Hogwash!  PVDS was not at the bank at 3 PM either.  However, he left his office at 3 PM and does not want to say where he went.  He arrived home at 4:30 PM.  I would bet that he was disposing of Natalee's body at this time, most likely using Koen's father's boat.  I think PVDS would do this alone, realizing that the fewer people who saw the disposal, the better his likelihood of success.  Isn't 1 1/2 hours just about enough time to take the body to the boat, launch the boat, drive it to the open water, dispose of the body and bring the boat back?

Interesting.....also,why was Paulus looking up info at 7 pm that monday night,about drugs/alcohol effects?
I think Paulus is a very weak minded guy....if anyone was killed for what they knew and any body disposel done,it was handled by those in aruba's LE and government.Afterall.....Paulus had a son to protect and the rest of them had a once happy island(tourists=$$$$)to protect....at all costs.

I lean  to Van Der Stratten and Jacobs being made aware on that Monday morning. It was some combination of those 2 and Paulus that actually disposed of the body.

[MumInOhio]

Klaas..could you please bring over page 2 of the second link in the lastest Dr Phil ruling?

[klaasend]

Klaas..could you please bring over page 2 of the second link in the lastest Dr Phil ruling?

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/Kalpoe_v_McGraw/1004pltfs_declaration.pdf

This?

[MumInOhio]

Klaas..could you please bring over page 2 of the second link in the lastest Dr Phil ruling?

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/Kalpoe_v_McGraw/1004pltfs_declaration.pdf

This?

Yes Thank you Klaas

RAMM....Number four on this page clearly says Aruban Public Prosecutor to prosecute or acquit. Are you saying that this is not possible? Did something get lost in the translation? TIA

[Anna]

Mum,

And this is important as I can just hear the suspects claiming to have been acquitted in a court of law!  That has been one of my biggest fears about this going to court.  We have seen how the judges rule and what if they were in fact to rule in such a manner without logic and reason, etc. as we have seen in the past with regard to things like the bogus search warrant?

Then they could go from suspects to "acquitted in a court of law" innocents.

.

[wreck]

Mum,

And this is important as I can just hear the suspects claiming to have been acquitted in a court of law!  That has been one of my biggest fears about this going to court.  We have seen how the judges rule and what if they were in fact to rule in such a manner without logic and reason, etc. as we have seen in the past with regard to things like the bogus search warrant?

Then they could go from suspects to "acquitted in a court of law" innocents.

.

This has been a "bone of contention." In the U.S., a prosecutor cannot "acquit" anyone "officially" -- he/she can only "refuse to prosecute." Apparently in Aruban/Dutch law, a prosecutor can officially "acquit" someone. 

[klaasend]

From Scrux:


Jonathan45

Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 123

 Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:52 pm    Post subject:   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
"LOOKING BACK"

The truth is hidden in Joran's lying story line.

Joran's truth.

He confirms that he was the only perpetrator.
He confirms that his apartment was the real crime scene
He confesses that he felt himself a real man [ no condom] when he had sex with Natalee
He admits that Natalee resisted and would charge him for what he was doing.
He admits he had to bring her to silence.
He admits that something terrible happened.
He admits that he framed the Kalpoe brothers by telling Deepak [2.26am call] that he left Natalee alone on the beach.
He admits that he himself made the timeline.
He admits that he buried Natalee.

Did Joran gave a clue where the remains of Natalee could be found ?

What is the hidden truth in the answer Joran gave [ accusing Deepak of the killing] to Jan van de Straten [page 157] on monday June 13, 2005 when van der Straten asked him where the girl was buried ?
Joran: "I think that she than must be buried next to the wall of the Fisherman's Huts."
In this scenario there is no beachstory. No Fisherman's Huts.
Did he could bury her next to a wall ? Yes
Could he have managed it without being seen ? Yes.
Is there such a [perfect] spot close to the VDSresidence ?
Yes, within 250 meters there is a long wall/fence.

Natalee's remains will be found in his Cunucu.
 
 

[Buckeye]

Klaas

Could you capture and post page 24 of this pdf (for igsigs)?

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/Kalpoe_v_McGraw/1004pltfs_motion.pdf

IGSIGS

Although number 4 says something about the judge having given an order to the prosecutor, this might be the Kalpo attorney fudging the judge's opinion.

The attorney quotes exhibit  B and C.  Neither exhibit attached show a judge's order for date of prosecution.  The above shows an opinion of a prosecutor.

[MumInOhio]

Mum,

And this is important as I can just hear the suspects claiming to have been acquitted in a court of law!  That has been one of my biggest fears about this going to court.  We have seen how the judges rule and what if they were in fact to rule in such a manner without logic and reason, etc. as we have seen in the past with regard to things like the bogus search warrant?

Then they could go from suspects to "acquitted in a court of law" innocents.


.

Yes Anna, the use of the word acquit is bothering me also. Does 'Double Jeopardy' apply in Aruban law? Ramm's post last night says only the judge can acquit, but that is not what Deepak lawyers are saying in their filing!

I'm sure their 'acuittal' would help in the Dr Phil case,but just don't see them handing over ALL those documents.

[Tamikosmom]

Klaas..could you please bring over page 2 of the second link in the lastest Dr Phil ruling?

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/Kalpoe_v_McGraw/1004pltfs_declaration.pdf

This?

John Q. Kelly
On the Record w/ Greta
September 14, 2007

KELLY: Ibelieve David Koch (ph), one of the attorneys for the Kalpoes actually signed a declaration at the court indicating that even if the court ordered the documents be turned over, they were not going to turn them over, which was sort of, for lack of a better word, arrogant on his part. The court did not necessarily like that.

But I can't see them both using the courts as a sword and then a shield. They can't bring this action, they can't seek damages and not obey the orders of the court and expect their case to go forward

[Anna]

Wreck,

Are you kidding me?    And we thought no jury was bad enough.  I can't imagine the guilt or innocence being placed in the hands of one person like that.  Well, that certainly is a powerful position to have.

And they post on the front page of news publications bragging about how they don't answer to anybody, etc.

So in this instance, we have a friend and co-worker of Paulus with the power to declare innocence.  Huuumm wonder what the outcome of that will be!   

[NYC_lover]

Klaasend - You got mail!

[MumInOhio]

Thanks Wreck and Buckeye...I guess i don't understand their laws!

David Kock also says in the lastest filing that Deepak's old lawyer has the early documents. Kock states that Deepak owes him money,so under Aruban law he(the old lawyer) gets to keep them. IIRC Deepak changed lawyers as it was a conflict of interest for him and Satish to have the same lawyer. Does anyone know if this is still Satish's lawyer?

The reason I'm asking is if this fella is no longer Satish's lawyer the CA court may not receive any of Satish' or Deepaks early documents. Not sure if this would include phone or computer records or just PVs!

[Slogger]

Wreck,

Are you kidding me?    And we thought no jury was bad enough.  I can't imagine the guilt or innocence being placed in the hands of one person like that.  Well, that certainly is a powerful position to have.

And they post on the front page of news publications bragging about how they don't answer to anybody, etc.

So in this instance, we have a friend and co-worker of Paulus with the power to declare innocence.  Huuumm wonder what the outcome of that will be!   

More POWER for Paulus if he had achieved that position.  Could he reapply and eventually rise to that power?

[klaasend]

O/T

REMINDER - we are doing a 24hr prayer chain starting at 8am this morning ET.  We still have some times to be filled later tonight (8-10:30pm, midnight & early morn).  If you wish to pick a time, please go to this link and let me know.  TIA

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=147.msg290515#msg290515