Natalee Case Discussion #685 10/7 - 10/14/2007

[klaasend]

I guess if we were fluent in Spanish and Portuguese we would have a easier time understanding PApi..Come Across 

Looks like two guys got into a punch-fest in an establishment in San Nicolas.  One went to the hospital, and the other wasn't detained.
(come back across) lol

Why would that be BREAKING NEWS?   

it's someone important. Meaning either Dutch or someone related to an Aruban that holds some kind of power. Come across.

Well I want to know who this "someone important" is.  Wonder if the fight was at one of the whore houses in San Nicholas?

[Lala'sMom]

Do we know if Steve Croes was questioned before his arrest? ALE moved -very slow- on him. Seeing that Lorenzo was more of a priority than Croes is peculiar. All things considered.

I am only guessing here based on what I have seen the past 2 years but don't you think Lorenzo was a priority because he was known to have the rave parties? He most likely had a party that night and it is possible they were making the connection there.  Or, since he was being mentioned by so many people, he obviously was one of the first people they thought of, the ALE was trying their best to pin this on him?  The connections would not be too difficult to make from what I have learned this past year.

[Lala'sMom]

Okay, no more Lorenzo for now...how about Paulus being the 5th suspect.  I know that many have said he is...that would make Simian saying he was the one "with the alibi, so tight".  The party?  Who had a party?  How could Paulus be having a party at his house and be in the casino as late at 7 or 8 PM?  These points need to be reconciled in order to attribute a party to the 5th suspect and him being PVDS.  I know the "boyfriend" comment always throws some people off, but let's just leave that one for the time being and see if we can indeed establish Paulus as being the 5th suspect.  I tend to think the term "boyfriend" is a translation error or just plain semantics in the way it is used.  Any ideas?  Come on guys....help me here.

Klaasend-Could you send me LaLaMom's email address & I will send her the Simian-ArubaGirl info.  TIA

IMO The "tight alibi" was Lorenzo having friend's at his house for a party.
The "boyfriend" from earlier in the week is most likely the older "local" seen
talking to Natalee.  The MB students could identify him as a local because he was wearing a uniform showing he worked in Aruba.

Could this person in uniform have been GVC in his visibility team uniform?

[klaasend]

Okay, no more Lorenzo for now...how about Paulus being the 5th suspect.  I know that many have said he is...that would make Simian saying he was the one "with the alibi, so tight".  The party?  Who had a party?  How could Paulus be having a party at his house and be in the casino as late at 7 or 8 PM?  These points need to be reconciled in order to attribute a party to the 5th suspect and him being PVDS.  I know the "boyfriend" comment always throws some people off, but let's just leave that one for the time being and see if we can indeed establish Paulus as being the 5th suspect.  I tend to think the term "boyfriend" is a translation error or just plain semantics in the way it is used.  Any ideas?  Come on guys....help me here.

Klaasend-Could you send me LaLaMom's email address & I will send her the Simian-ArubaGirl info.  TIA

IMO The "tight alibi" was Lorenzo having friend's at his house for a party.
The "boyfriend" from earlier in the week is most likely the older "local" seen
talking to Natalee.  The MB students could identify him as a local because he was wearing a uniform showing he worked in Aruba.

Could this person in uniform have been GVC in his visibility team uniform?

I thought GVC wasn't on the visibility team when Natalee was in Aruba.

[Lala'sMom]

See, why I need you to keep me straight? 

[igsigs]

Do we know if Steve Croes was questioned before his arrest? ALE moved -very slow- on him. Seeing that Lorenzo was more of a priority than Croes is peculiar. All things considered.

I am only guessing here based on what I have seen the past 2 years but don't you think Lorenzo was a priority because he was known to have the rave parties? He most likely had a party that night and it is possible they were making the connection there.  Or, since he was being mentioned by so many people, he obviously was one of the first people they thought of, the ALE was trying their best to pin this on him?  The connections would not be too difficult to make from what I have learned this past year.

An attempt to *pin* Lorenzo would answer my question. Otherwise i don't see how Lorenzo bumps ahead of Croes on the to-do list. Croes represented the HI story, and ALE discarded it before even talking to him...?

[klaasend]

Igsigs - what do you think about Lorenzo?  Do you think he's involved in some way?

[klaasend]

REMINDER - Tomorrow night BETH will be on the Dana Pretzer show, 9PM Eastern time.

[igsigs]

Igsigs - what do you think about Lorenzo?  Do you think he's involved in some way?

I would not exclude him. What do we know? Questioned based on bad rep and a phone tip? Then a strong alibi?

But...something is missing. IMO - more than a bad rep gets him brought in that early (early for ALE). And despite the strong alibi he is re-questioned...in the same 1/2 day period that Joran is juggling his bus/cinema stories.

[klaasend]

Igsigs - what do you think about Lorenzo?  Do you think he's involved in some way?

I would not exclude him. What do we know? Questioned based on bad rep and a phone tip? Then a strong alibi?

But...something is missing. IMO - more than a bad rep gets him brought in that early (early for ALE). And despite the strong alibi he is re-questioned...in the same 1/2 day period that Joran is juggling his bus/cinema stories.

Exactly.  Plus one reason I look at him is because after we initially were told what a scarey person he was, everyone shut up about him.  He became an untouchable suspect, IMO. 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Monkeys
I'v been lax in keeping up and do NOT want to muddy the waters... Just wondering something about Guido Wever.  I know we do not have a record of all PV's ...  but why did he give a statement on June 3rd. ?
TIA

Now that you mention this, I just looked at Grande's file and and see that he was questioned before the Hotel staff for Holiday Inn, Allegro, etc. on the 4th and the subsequent arrest of Mickey John & Abraham Jones.  Maybe his name was mentoned early on as a friend and a dealer...just guessing.

[klaasend]

Igsigs - you watching the dueling attorneys, Charlierat and Doc?   

[igsigs]

Igsigs - you watching the dueling attorneys, Charlierat and Doc?   

Now i am.  

There should be a mercy rule for some FOBRUs. All hat and no cattle.

[klaasend]

Igsigs - you watching the dueling attorneys, Charlierat and Doc?   

Now i am.  

There should be a mercy rule for some FOBRUs. All hat and no cattle.

 

[dennisintn]

Igsigs - you watching the dueling attorneys, Charlierat and Doc?   

Now i am.  

There should be a mercy rule for some FOBRUs. All hat and no cattle.

 

well, share with us.  i hope chuckie is getting his butt beat.  i don't know doc.
dennisintn

[igsigs]

well, share with us.  i hope chuckie is getting his butt beat.  i don't know doc.
dennisintn

Doc is commenting on the applications of an appeal of interlocutory orders without mandamus. I anticipate that Rat's response with introduce the the relevence of how many shrimp Beth ate at the Buccaneer. That being his area of expertise.

[klaasend]

Igsigs - you watching the dueling attorneys, Charlierat and Doc?   

Now i am.  

There should be a mercy rule for some FOBRUs. All hat and no cattle.

 

well, share with us.  i hope chuckie is getting his butt beat.  i don't know doc.
dennisintn

Part of their "battle" regarding the K2 vs. Dr. Phil case:

Doc wrote:

Yes you can appeal interlocutory orders without mandamus but when there's no adequate appellate remedy - like appealing a discovery order that has the effect of adjudicating on the merits - you petition for writ of mandamus.

Charlierat wrote:

There is no such thing as a discovery order that has the effect of adjudicating on the merits.

Doc wrote:

A terminating sanctions order has the effect of adjudicating the case on the merits.

An order that precludes presentation of all evidence other than a party's own testimony has the effect of adjudicating the case.

Doc wrote:

charlie - K2 took the appeal of the discovery order by petitioning the court of appeals for a writ of mandate. Now why do you think they did that rather than make a straight appeal?

[Rob]

well, share with us.  i hope chuckie is getting his butt beat.  i don't know doc.
dennisintn

Doc is commenting on the applications of an appeal of interlocutory orders without mandamus. I anticipate that Rat's response with introduce the the relevence of how many shrimp Beth ate at the Buccaneer. That being his area of expertise.

  snicker!

[dennisintn]

Doc is commenting on the applications of an appeal of interlocutory orders without mandamus. I anticipate that Rat's response with introduce the the relevence of how many shrimp Beth ate at the Buccaneer. That being his area of expertise.
[/quote]

  snicker!
[/quote]

igsigs, roflmao, you know the chuckierat so well.  at the rate that conversation is going, crat may end up without cattle or hat.  keep us informed.  i can't go over there and read for myself, i haven't been vaccinated for that kind of place yet.
dennisintn

[klaasend]

Charlierat wrote: 

I have no opinion on the choice of strategy by the Kalpoes' attorneys. This is the first time I've ever heard of a "writ of mandate." I have no idea what a "writ of mandate" is. Do you? Is it an alternate way to phrase a petition for a writ of mandamus?

Quick google search of "writ of mandate:

http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?selected=2267&bold=

writ of mandate
(mandamus) n. a court order to a government agency, including another court, to follow the law by correcting its prior actions or ceasing illegal acts.
See also: mandamus mandate

Some attorney he is, LOL