Natalee Case Discussion #686 10/14 - 10/22

[Kiwi]

In previous discussion we have talked about possibly a second car. Satish reported arriving at CC with a different time than the rest. Is it possible that car with Natalee went to a second bar to pick-up Deepak. Maybe he left earlier than the rest and went to the second bar. This would account for some of differences in statements, and the stop off.

[Observer]

[

Birmingham News
June 9, 2005

Satish Kalpoe's attorney, David Kock, said his client told him that van der Sloot asked the Kalpoe brothers to pick him up Sunday night so he could meet up with Holloway and her classmates at Carlos'n Charlie's, a popular watering hole in the capital, Oranjestad.

"They said they left the bar around 1:30 a.m. with van der Sloot and an intoxicated Holloway in the back seat, then stopped briefly at another restaurant about a block away before heading out of town", Kock said.

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1118481459238090.xml&coll=2

Tamikosmom:

You have been lookin hard for that..Havent ya?? Nice find..In the interview on TV he gave a reason why Deepak ran in and Im pretty sure it was to talk to a friend...So what Bar/Restraunt was that? Is it possible it was Choose-A-Name? Mambos?
[/quote]

 

******* ... the article was dated June 9, 2005.  The day that Joran, Deepak and Satish was detained.  Deepak and Satish did not mention this "quick stop" in their May 31, 2005 official witness statements ... they did not mention it in subsequent revealed suspect statements.  ******* ... I do believe your speculation is right on ... David Kock let something slip.

Janet
[/quote]

Most definetly! I was in shock when I heard Mr.Kock say that in the interview as the accounts have all been the same and no one else has said that..I did a double take when I heard him say that!! I think originally he was Satish's lawyer and then took over for both brothers,so it must be from Satish's statements. Joran left it out of his detailed accounts with Chris Cuomo and Greta for a reason. It must have some importants if they are all trying to keep it out of the timeline. If it is of no importance why leave it out?? The only thing they have admitted to is what witnesses have seen.(White Car,Bus Stop Stop,Natalee in back seat..etc) Theres a whole lot more to this story that they are leaving out besides a quick stop at another bar a block away 

[Kiwi]

There is no doubt. If they could say Natalee who? and what car? They would. A side from that, has anyone from MB students said exactly who was in the car with Natalee when they stopped and asked her to get out of the car. That could help me narrow some speculation, only on my part, with multiple cars and leaving the bar.

[crazybabyborg]

I was just checking the NY Times bestseller list (week ending October 6, 2007), and was pleased to find "Loving Natalee" listed, and to find that it has already climbed to "also selling" status.

[klaasend]

I was just checking the NY Times bestseller list (week ending October 6, 2007), and was pleased to find "Loving Natalee" listed, and to find that it has already climbed to "also selling" status.

Yes, it's #34

[igsigs]

Dr. Phil 10/17 response posted on BFN / Legal Docs Section   -   H/T  Jane

"No more time, enough is enough. Plaintiffs application for a stay should be denied and Defendants should be awarded their attorneys' fees."

- Dr. Phil's lawyers sound fed up, and present a good argument for dismissal, IMO.

- TeamKalpoe does not follow directions very well, IMO.

- Dr.Phil's lawyers say that the 12/31 prosecutor's *promise* means nothing.

- Also that even if suspect status is removed, TeamK has already stated full disclosure will not happen.

- Zero response to latest document ruling, not even the NFI tape report.

- Dompig quotes remain problematic to Ks. Jossy/Dompig taped meeting cited as an admission favoring defense.

Judge Fern's response should be interesting. December...i think.

eta: Kinda funny. TeamK trusts Klaas' translations but not Dr. Phil?    They must have directed Dr. Phil to SM for discovery...to elicit this response...

"Some info may be found on various blogs on the Internet but that is unsatisfactory for obvious evidentiary reasons."

[Buckeye]

Dr. Phil 10/17 response posted on BFN / Legal Docs Section   -   H/T  Jane

"No more time, enough is enough. Plaintiffs application for a stay should be denied and Defendants should be awarded their attorneys' fees."

- Dr. Phil's lawyers sound fed up, and present a good argument for dismissal, IMO.

- TeamKalpoe does not follow directions very well, IMO.

- Dr.Phil's lawyers say that the 12/31 prosecutor's *promise* means nothing.

- Also that even if suspect status is removed, TeamK has already stated full disclosure will not happen.

- Zero response to latest document ruling, not even the NFI tape report.

- Dompig quotes remain problematic to Ks. Jossy/Dompig taped meeting cited as an admission favoring defense.

Judge Fern's response should be interesting. December...i think.

eta: Kinda funny. TeamK trusts Klaas' translations but not Dr. Phil?     They must have directed Dr. Phil to SM for discovery...to elicit this response...

"Some info may be found on various blogs on the Internet but that is unsatisfactory for obvious evidentiary reasons."

I read it as the request to stay discovery was filed (late) 10/5/07 to the Court of Appeals.

Court of Appeals denied the stay request 10/11/07.

...Phil wants attorney's fees.

[greeneyedlady]

Jonathon 45 posted @ Scrux

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:00 pm    Post subject:   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
LOOKING BACK III


"LOVING Natalee", The True Story of the Aruban Kidnapping and its Aftermath written by Beth Holloway.

In her book Beth Holloway reveals a lot about Paulus' behaviour from the moment Paulus was informed about a possible connection between a missing young American girl and his son Joran.

Two books on my desk. Two story lines to compare.

A crucial question and a definite answer

Was it PaulusVDS on the videotape at the blackjack table in the Excelsior Casino on Sundayevening May 29 2005 ?
Yes, indeed it was Paulus sitting next to Natalee.


to be continued.

[Dayhiker]

I read it as the request to stay discovery was filed (late) 10/5/07 to the Court of Appeals.

Court of Appeals denied the stay request 10/11/07.

...Phil wants attorney's fees.

Where are they going to get those fees from? ATA, AHATA, a casino owner from Chicago?

[Dayhiker]

Birmingham News
June 9, 2005

Satish Kalpoe's attorney, David Kock, said his client told him that van der Sloot asked the Kalpoe brothers to pick him up Sunday night so he could meet up with Holloway and her classmates at Carlos'n Charlie's, a popular watering hole in the capital, Oranjestad.

"They said they left the bar around 1:30 a.m. with van der Sloot and an intoxicated Holloway in the back seat, then stopped briefly at another restaurant about a block away before heading out of town", Kock said.

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1118481459238090.xml&coll=2

Is there a listing under the Kalpoe discovery request who might be a bartender or waiter type from Moomba or Choose-A-Name that was interviewed by ALE or was this overlooked?

[Dayhiker]

Jonathon 45 posted @ Scrux

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:00 pm    Post subject:   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
LOOKING BACK III


"LOVING Natalee", The True Story of the Aruban Kidnapping and its Aftermath written by Beth Holloway.

In her book Beth Holloway reveals a lot about Paulus' behaviour from the moment Paulus was informed about a possible connection between a missing young American girl and his son Joran.

Two books on my desk. Two story lines to compare.

A crucial question and a definite answer

Was it PaulusVDS on the videotape at the blackjack table in the Excelsior Casino on Sundayevening May 29 2005 ?
Yes, indeed it was Paulus sitting next to Natalee.


to be continued.

Thank you GEL. If that is Paulus, the game is over IMO. The wiretap.

[msmarple]

http://www.amigoe.com/english/   10/19/2007

Supervision on gambling shockingly bad

ORANJESTAD – In Aruba, there is hardly any supervision on the local population’s gambling.  Even though the law permits supervision, it appears that in practice, hardly anything is being checked.  The Social Economic Council (SER) came to that conclusion after they did an inquiry analysis on gambling on the island.

The Council listed the gambling possibilities in Aruba and they appeared innumerable.  There are currently 11 legal casinos, where people can go gambling seven days a week.  Several casinos organize daily bingo games in the amusement arcade, in the midst of slot machines.  “Many bingo players try their luck on the slot machines during intermission and after the bingo game is over”, writes the SER.

In addition to the 11 legal casinos, there are also illegal ones.  Considering the illegal character of these activities, other information on them is difficult to get. 

And then there is the phenomenon e-gaming or casino-on-line.  How much of this is being practiced in Aruba, we don’t know, but because it is being promoted in the local newspapers, we establish that e-gaming is also popular among the Aruban population. 

There is also cock-fighting, which is indeed illegal.  But it is an open secret that this is taking place on a regular basis.  The Veterinary Service indicated being concerned about the relatively new phenomenon of dog fights.

There are also gambling on domino- and pool competitions.  People also love to gamble on soccer tournaments and boxing.   There are of course the lotteries: Lotto pa Deporte, the National Lottery, the legal lotteries, and the illegal ones; in short, sufficient possibilities to gamble in Aruba.

SUPERVISION

The law dictates that residents are allowed to visit a casino only eight times a month.  If and when they exceed this number of visits, the Internal Department of the government will sent them a letter at home with the warning that the maximum standard for casino-visits has been reached.  If this warning gets ignored, the resident is banned from casino-visits for one year.  When this year has expired, the person has to submit a request to remove the casino ban.

From a study in 1982, it turned out that this supervision has never worked.  ‘In practice, this letter is dead”, said SER in her report.

The Department of Casino-system has 92 casino inspectors and 8 clerks, together 100 persons that ought to conduct the checking at the entrance of each casino.  However it is known that local visitors are almost never checked.  “The Casino-system department indicated that it is impossible to check the people that are going to play bingo, so they don’t.  But they almost never check either when there is no bingo game.”   

In order to protect residents it is also determined that “a resident of Aruba is not allowed to gamble more than 200 dollars each time and a non-resident, 1000 dollars”.  This ought to be supervised in the casino.  SER doesn’t mention in her report whether this is also taking place.  Probably, because there is no information on this, so it cannot be verified.

TECHNIQUE

SER also noticed a lack of supervision on the technical aspects of the slot machines.  A draft national ordinance was presented to parliament in 2004-2005, requiring more attention for the protection of Aruba’s good reputation against slot machines that pay too little.  The Technical Inspection Service (DTI) was supposed to be appointed as the controlling instance for this.  Supposedly this department has experience with this matter.

Inquiry with DTI revealed though that DTI has no experience at all with this matter.  They have proposed a bill in the past to make these inspections legal, and so set up and implement a system.  Parliament has never considered this bill.  Also the payment percentages of the slot machines in the casinos are never checked.  Casinos indicated that all the slot machines imported from the United States are programmed and approved by the Gaming Licence International in the United States.  The Casino-system department is responsible for further checking, when necessary.  Inquiry with this department learns that DTI does the checking and DTI indicated on her turn that they do not exercise controls.  With this, the supervision on casinos fails on all fronts.

* * *
I don't see any mention of under-age gambling.

[sharon]

Thanks MsMarple. Very interesting.


"People also love to gamble on soccer tournaments and boxing."


I wonder if that is why the 'pimps' like to pretend that they are 'sporters'. So that they can 'throw' the game.

It certainly is NOT for their athletic ability 

Guido, Sander, Koen. Joran...... Ah yes -- the pillars of athleticism 

I'm not sure Joran has the hand-eye coordination to wipe his own butt. 

[Rob]

- Zero response to latest document ruling, not even the NFI tape report.

That seems to confirm what Jamie told me - there is a report. And according to Jamie - Tape manipulated by ALE. Skeeter's HD fully intact.

- Dompig quotes remain problematic to Ks. Jossy/Dompig taped meeting cited as an admission favoring defense.

We never heard the rest of this tape. Jossy said he would get it translated and give it to FOX - more specifically - Kimberley Guilfoyle.

[msmarple]

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/10/19/

Gobierno tabata negligente cu necesidad centro di ciudad
Hopi cas comercial kier bandona Playa
 
*Comercio en general ta baha su inventario y inversion
*Marisol no a percura pa asuntonan basico di Playa

ORANJESTAD(AAN)— Turistanan no ta interesa pa haci compra. Prijsnan ta hopi halto y nan conoce valor di mercancia. Publico local no tin placa. Tin negoshi ta pasa un dia sin mira cliente drenta. Trahadornan tin miedo pa futuro. Comercio en general a baha su stock, ta haci menos inversion pasobra futuro no ta alentador. Tambe ta busca lugarnan menos costoso, mas acesibel pa publico. Ta trabau di e Ministro di Infrastructura, den e caso aki Marisol, di percura pa asuntonan basico di e centro di ciudad. Esey no a socede y awor comerciantenan no ta warda mas. Nan ta bay.

Benta na mayoria di casnan comercial di  Aruba a baha. Ni baratiyo no ta yuda mas y lugarnan cu antes no tabata tin suficiente empleado pa yuda clientela, awor ta mira horas pasa promer cu cliente drenta.

E horanan cu clientenan ta pasa pa busca mercancia, a aumenta. Placa cu publico tin na su disposicion, a baha. Mayoria di comercio a haya su mes forza di baha importacion y mercancia. Arubianonan ta busca salida pa e situacion door di haci uso di personanan cu ta viaha pa manda busca loke nan por haya den exterior, caminda ta mas barata.

Inversionnan no por worde haci mas door di comerciantenan, cu ta mira resultadonan baha. Comerciantenan di Playa ta sufri bau circumstancianan. Nada a worde haci pa años door di Gobierno pa mehora e situacion na Playa.

“Con publico ta bin haci compras si no tin estacionamento? Pone auto den vecindario di shelter, ta worde evita aunke e ta bira necesario. Enbez di a percura pa e elementonan basico, cu ta den man di Gobierno manera lugar pa vehiculonan, a kita espacio for di publico. Esnan cu kier haci compras na Playa hopi vez mester estaciona na un lugar, cu nan mester cana basta of ta insigur, pa nan haci nan compras. Mi no ta warda mas. Hunto cu mi mas ta bay,” un comerciante a bisa DIARIO.

El a mustra cu e  ultimo lunanan tabata teribel pa comerciom. Pa trahadornan e ta desesperante. Nan sa cu hopi comerciante ta en espera di e temporada di turismo. Si pa Februari resulta cu esey tampoco ta trece solucion, e chens ta grandi cu negoshinan ta cuminza baha personal.

Tin companianan den Playa cu a cambia di doño. Companianan cu Pueblo lo no a spera, ta prepara pa bay for di Playa y bende na un shopping mall pafor di Playa, caminda sikiera esnan cu kier cumpra algo por yega.

Comerciantenan a mustra cu e impacto tabata asina pisa, cu nan no por mas. Nan ta lamenta con a atende cu comercio di Playa, cu a bira victima di negligencia di Gobierno. Dentro di algun siman temporada turistico ta cuminza. Kico lo socede cu Playa ta keda un pregunta. Kico lo pasa cu trahadornan tambe.

Online Pap translation:

gobierno was negligente cu
necesidad centro of town
much cas comercial wanted bandona beach

*comercio provided that general is descend his inventory y inversion *marisol not owing to percura for asuntonan basico of beach

oranjestad(aan)— turistanan do not interesa for haci compra. prijsnan is much high y they conoce valor of mercancia. publico local not have coin. have business is happen one day without see cliente enter. trahadornan have fright for future. comercio provided that general owing to descend his stock, is haci less inversion because future do not alentador. also is busca lugarnan less costoso, more acesibel for publico. is trabau of the ministro of infrastructura, in the caso here marisol, of percura for asuntonan basico of the centro of town. esey not owing to socede y now comerciantenan do not keep more. they're bay.

throw at majority of casnan comercial of aruba owing to descend. neither baratiyo do not help more y lugarnan cu formerly not was have sufficient employee for help clientela, now is see horas happen before cliente enter.

the horanan cu clientenan is happen for busca mercancia, owing to aumenta. coin cu publico have at his disposicion, owing to descend. majority of comercio owing to achieve his self forza of descend importacion y mercancia. arubianonan is busca exit for her situation door of haci usage of personanan cu is viaha for send busca thing they can achieve in exterior, caminda is more cheap.

inversionnan not can worde haci more door of comerciantenan, cu is see resultadonan descend. comerciantenan of beach is abide bau circumstancianan. nothing owing to worde haci for años door of gobierno for mehora the situation at beach.

“con publico is come haci compras if not have estacionamento? place car in vecindario of shelter, is worde evita although the is become necesario. enbez of owing to percura for her elementonan basico, cu is in hand of gobierno as lugar for vehiculonan, owing to less espacio for of publico. esnan cu wanted haci compras at beach much vez have to estaciona at one lugar, cu they have to march enough or is insigur, for they haci they compras. my do not keep more. together cu my more is bay,” one comerciante owing to tell daily paper.

past owing to show cu the ultimo lunanan was terrible for comerciom. for trahadornan the is desesperante. they know cu much comerciante is provided that espera of the season of turism. if for feburary resulta cu esey niether is trece solucion, the chens is big cu negoshinan is cuminza descend personal.

have companianan in beach cu owing to change of owner. companianan cu people will not owing to wait for, is prepara for bay for of beach y sell at one shopping mall abroad of beach, caminda sikiera esnan cu wanted cumpra algo can arrive.

comerciantenan owing to show cu the impacto was so pisa, cu they not can more. they're lamenta con owing to atende cu comercio of beach, cu owing to become victima of negligencia of gobierno. dentro of some week season turistico is cuminza. kico will socede cu beach is stay one question. kico will happen cu trahadornan also.

* * *

Not sure what it's all about, but sounds like business is bad, somewhere, for shop keepers.

[greeneyedlady]

Jonathon 45 posted @ Scrux

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:00 pm    Post subject:   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
LOOKING BACK III


"LOVING Natalee", The True Story of the Aruban Kidnapping and its Aftermath written by Beth Holloway.

In her book Beth Holloway reveals a lot about Paulus' behaviour from the moment Paulus was informed about a possible connection between a missing young American girl and his son Joran.

Two books on my desk. Two story lines to compare.

A crucial question and a definite answer

Was it PaulusVDS on the videotape at the blackjack table in the Excelsior Casino on Sundayevening May 29 2005 ?
Yes, indeed it was Paulus sitting next to Natalee.


to be continued.

Thank you GEL. If that is Paulus, the game is over IMO. The wiretap.

You're welcome, Dayhiker

But if Paulus has been dropped from suspect status, can they even charge him with anything again?

[Dayhiker]

- Dompig quotes remain problematic to Ks. Jossy/Dompig taped meeting cited as an admission favoring defense.

We never heard the rest of this tape. Jossy said he would get it translated and give it to FOX - more specifically - Kimberley Guilfoyle.

Amazing how that Dompig interview with Jossy got jerked from airing on Fox News, isn't it Rob? Question for you. Who from Aruba would have had it pulled? Prosecutor, KLPD. ALE? Would have had to have been somebody with tremendous pull and insight into where the investigation was going. You think?

[Dayhiker]

You're welcome, Dayhiker

But if Paulus has been dropped from suspect status, can they even charge him with anything again?

Yes. He may not be tried on the original charges but we have discovered Dutch law has a never ending laundry list of things they can pull out of the hat, not to mention the flexibility to interpret their laws any way they please. I do not think he is at all immune from prosecution.

[klaasend]

NEW FRONT PAGE POSTS:

IN THE FACE OF EVIL - PART II

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/10/19/natalee-holloway-disappearance-in-aruba-in-the-face-of-evil-part-ii/




Aruba: Supervision on gambling shockingly bad … The Law Dictates Residents are allowed only 8 Casino Visits a Month

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/10/19/aruba-supervision-on-gambling-shockingly-bad-the-law-dictates-residents-are-allowed-only-8-casino-visits-a-month/

[msmarple]

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/10/19/

UN BOTER DI CERVEZ A COSTA ACUSADO 867 FLORIN
 
 A ORANJESTAD(AAN): Diahuebs Eric F.D.M a presenta dilanti di huez, despues cu el a wordo acusa di a maltrata un persona severamente.Den rapport di polis tin para cu E. riba15 di Juli 2007 a dal un persona cu botter riba cabez, causando un posibel hersenschudding y dunando e persona un cicatriz na su cabez.

Segun declaracion die victima, E.M tabata busca problema cune den Carlos & Charlie’s y na dado momento e acusado a pushe y dal e cu botter di cerbez riba su cabez.El a dal abao y e persona a sigui riba dje.

E mester a wordo hiba cu ambulance y na hospital nan a cose su cabez cu a ricibi un cap. Ora el a bay cas, nan a bise pa e wordo lanta cada par di ora, pasobra e por tin un hersenschudding. Abogado di e acusado a ricibi e documentonan die  caso hopi laat y a pidi pa e caso wordo posponi, pero e acusado mes a bisa huez cu e lo defende su mes, pa e caso keda cla.

Den su declaracion na polis el a bisa cu e victima tin un relacion cu su ex y ora el a pasa cerca di nan, e homber a pushe. El a reacciona y dal e homber cu e botter. Fiscal a pidi e acusado si e problema tin di haber cu su ex y el a bisa cu no.El a bisa cu e tin un otro chick caba y cu e no tabata kier problema.

E mucha muher tambe a duna un declaracion, cu ta confirma loke e victima a bisa. Tanto e victima y su pareha a bisa si den nan declaracion na polis, cu nan kier pa e haya castigo, pero no pa e perde su trabao na Mariniers Kazerne.

E victima tabata presente den corte y el a entrega un demanda.El a splica cu e mester a paga 367 florin pa e tratamento na eerste hulp, pasobra e no tabata tin un asina yama “zorgpas”.Ademas di esaki el a exigi 108 florin cu el a perde door di no por bay traha.E victima a entrega un demanda tambe di 2000 florin, pa daño inmaterial.

El a splica cu e tin problema di drumi, ta pensa hopi biaha riba e momento traumatico y cu el a keda cu un cicatriz na su cabez. Fiscal a exigi un castigo di 1 luna condicional, cu e condicion cu e mester paga 2000 florin na e victima.

Ademas di esaki e mester paga un multa di 500 florin, como tambe e gastonan di 367 di hospital. Huez den su sentencia a bisa cu e no por determina facilmente cuanto por wordo exigi den dañonan inmaterial.Pesey el a duna como castigo si cu E.M mester paga 500 florin di multa, 367 pa e tratamento na eerste hulp, mientras cu un castigo condicional di 1 luna ta keda colga riba su cabez.

Online Pap translation:

one boter of cervez owing to costa acusado 867 guilder owing to

oranjestad(aan): diahuebs eric f.d.m owing to present fast of huez, after cu past owing to wordo acusa of owing to maltrata one person severamente.den rapport of police have stop cu the. riba15 of july 2007 owing to strike one person cu botter on cabez, causando one possible hersenschudding y dunando the person one cicatriz at his cabez.

according declaracion die victima, e.m was busca problem cune in carlos & charlie’s y at dado instant the acusado owing to pushe y strike the cu botter of cerbez on his cabez.el owing to strike abao y the person owing to follow on dje.

the have to owing to wordo take away cu ambulance y at hospital they owing to cose his cabez cu owing to ricibi one cap. hour past owing to bay cas, they owing to bise for her wordo arise cada pair of hour, because the can have one hersenschudding. advocate of the acusado owing to ricibi the documentonan die caso much late y owing to ask for her caso wordo posponi, but the acusado self owing to tell huez cu the will defende his self, for her caso stay cla.

in his declaracion at police past owing to tell cu the victima have one relacion cu his ex y hour past owing to happen close of they, he owing to pushe. past owing to reacciona y strike he cu the botter. fiscal owing to ask the acusado if the problem have of haber cu his ex y past owing to tell cu not.el owing to tell cu the have one another chick end y cu the not was wanted problem.

the child muher also owing to give one declaracion, cu is confirma thing the victima owing to tell. tanto the victima y his pareha owing to tell if in they declaracion at police, cu they wanted for her achieve castigo, but not for her lose his trabao at mariniers kazerne.

the victima was present in corte y past owing to entrega one demanda.el owing to splica cu the have to owing to pay 367 guilder for her tratamento at eerste hulp, because the not was have one so calling “zorgpas”.ademas of this past owing to exigi 108 guilder cu past owing to lose door of not can bay work.e victima owing to entrega one demanda also of 2000 guilder, for damage inmaterial.

past owing to splica cu the have problem of sleep, is think much trip on the instant traumatico y cu past owing to stay cu one cicatriz at his cabez. fiscal owing to exigi one castigo of 1 month condicional, cu the condicion cu the have to pay 2000 guilder at the victima.

apart from this the have to pay one multa of 500 guilder, because; also the gastonan of 367 of hospital. huez in his sentencia owing to tell cu the not can determina facilmente cuanto can wordo exigi in dañonan inmaterial.pesey past owing to give because; castigo if cu e.m have to pay 500 guilder of multa, 367 for her tratamento at eerste hulp, while cu one castigo condicional of 1 month is stay colga on his cabez.

* * *

Again not sure what the story is, but something happened at C&Cs (always worth mentioning! 07/15/2007); the accused apparently has to pay at least the medical/hospital cost incurred, maybe other $$, and/or some detention time. Don't know off hand whether this incident already has been posted.