Natalee Case Discussion #686 10/14 - 10/22

[San]

VanderSloot Home Movies (propaganda...IMO).  "Alibi" in very beginning.  Iwas always amazed by those that excused Joran for English being his second or third language since even his poem is in English.  Poor Medley, they certainly fooled her by speaking Dutch around her.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1587602

He speaks perfect english.

If Joran started barking like a dog he would tell Medley that is one of his languages and she would believe him.

[San]

PVDS statement June 23

   To your question whether I can remember if Joran complained
from legs in his feet or legs during the period from May 30th 2005 to
June 9th 2005, I can state the following. I can remember that between
the time Anita went to the Netherlands and the time he was arrested
Joran did complain about pain in his legs and feet. I cannot remember
however if he specifically complained about that on Monday.

   To your question whether I asked him what could have caused
the pains, I can state the following. No, I did not ask him. He complained
about these kinds of pains from time to time.

   To your question whether I knew what the causes were of these pains,
I can state the following. I assumed that they were general pains of being
tired/being sore. I had not attributed them to a specific reason.


Did we ever see a statement by Joran that he had leg pains??  Who told the police Joran was complaining of foot and/or leg pain?? Or did someone tell the police to ask Joran about his legs??  Was he lifting cement....I mean something heavy??  Was he scratched or bruised??  hmmmmm

Did he kick someone.  He is famous for kicking people.  Was the charge "Heavy Battery" really Joran's charge.  Did they try to frame Guido because he knew what happened and they needed him to shut up.  I can see Karin Janssen saying let's charge him with one of Joran's charges.  Hummmm.

[San]

PVDS statement June 23

   To your question whether I can remember if Joran complained
from legs in his feet or legs during the period from May 30th 2005 to
June 9th 2005, I can state the following. I can remember that between
the time Anita went to the Netherlands and the time he was arrested
Joran did complain about pain in his legs and feet. I cannot remember
however if he specifically complained about that on Monday.

   To your question whether I asked him what could have caused
the pains, I can state the following. No, I did not ask him. He complained
about these kinds of pains from time to time.

   To your question whether I knew what the causes were of these pains,
I can state the following. I assumed that they were general pains of being
tired/being sore. I had not attributed them to a specific reason.


Did we ever see a statement by Joran that he had leg pains??  Who told the police Joran was complaining of foot and/or leg pain?? Or did someone tell the police to ask Joran about his legs??  Was he lifting cement....I mean something heavy??  Was he scratched or bruised??  hmmmmm

Did he kick someone.  He is famous for kicking people.  Was the charge "Heavy Battery" really Joran's charge.  Did they try to frame Guido because he knew what happened and they needed him to shut up.  I can see Karin Janssen saying let's charge him with one of Joran's charges.  Hummmm.

Hummm could possibly be San.  What else do you think happened.

[San]

PVDS statement June 23

   To your question whether I can remember if Joran complained
from legs in his feet or legs during the period from May 30th 2005 to
June 9th 2005, I can state the following. I can remember that between
the time Anita went to the Netherlands and the time he was arrested
Joran did complain about pain in his legs and feet. I cannot remember
however if he specifically complained about that on Monday.

   To your question whether I asked him what could have caused
the pains, I can state the following. No, I did not ask him. He complained
about these kinds of pains from time to time.

   To your question whether I knew what the causes were of these pains,
I can state the following. I assumed that they were general pains of being
tired/being sore. I had not attributed them to a specific reason.


Did we ever see a statement by Joran that he had leg pains??  Who told the police Joran was complaining of foot and/or leg pain?? Or did someone tell the police to ask Joran about his legs??  Was he lifting cement....I mean something heavy??  Was he scratched or bruised??  hmmmmm

Did he kick someone.  He is famous for kicking people.  Was the charge "Heavy Battery" really Joran's charge.  Did they try to frame Guido because he knew what happened and they needed him to shut up.  I can see Karin Janssen saying let's charge him with one of Joran's charges.  Hummmm.

Hummm could possibly be San.  What else do you think happened.

I think that Joran became violent when Natalee got that phone call off.  She fought and he got a bruise on his face.  He became enraged and beat her to death.  The Kalpoes stood there and watched because they were shitting their pants in fear.

I also think that there is still so much evidence (blood) at the Sloot dump that is the reason that Paulus is not moving.

The only way for them to move is if they demolish the house and dig up the pool and whatever evidence is there and they dispose of it.  But they can't do that because they know everyone is watching so they are stuck there.

[San]

PVDS statement June 23

   To your question whether I can remember if Joran complained
from legs in his feet or legs during the period from May 30th 2005 to
June 9th 2005, I can state the following. I can remember that between
the time Anita went to the Netherlands and the time he was arrested
Joran did complain about pain in his legs and feet. I cannot remember
however if he specifically complained about that on Monday.

   To your question whether I asked him what could have caused
the pains, I can state the following. No, I did not ask him. He complained
about these kinds of pains from time to time.

   To your question whether I knew what the causes were of these pains,
I can state the following. I assumed that they were general pains of being
tired/being sore. I had not attributed them to a specific reason.


Did we ever see a statement by Joran that he had leg pains??  Who told the police Joran was complaining of foot and/or leg pain?? Or did someone tell the police to ask Joran about his legs??  Was he lifting cement....I mean something heavy??  Was he scratched or bruised??  hmmmmm

Did he kick someone.  He is famous for kicking people.  Was the charge "Heavy Battery" really Joran's charge.  Did they try to frame Guido because he knew what happened and they needed him to shut up.  I can see Karin Janssen saying let's charge him with one of Joran's charges.  Hummmm.

Hummm could possibly be San.  What else do you think happened.

I think that Joran became violent when Natalee got that phone call off.  She fought and he got a bruise on his face.  He became enraged and beat her to death.  The Kalpoes stood there and watched because they were shitting their pants in fear.

I also think that there is still so much evidence (blood) at the Sloot dump that is the reason that Paulus is not moving.

The only way for them to move is if they demolish the house and dig up the pool and whatever evidence is there and they dispose of it.  But they can't do that because they know everyone is watching so they are stuck there.

How do you think they could solve this case.

[San]

PVDS statement June 23

   To your question whether I can remember if Joran complained
from legs in his feet or legs during the period from May 30th 2005 to
June 9th 2005, I can state the following. I can remember that between
the time Anita went to the Netherlands and the time he was arrested
Joran did complain about pain in his legs and feet. I cannot remember
however if he specifically complained about that on Monday.

   To your question whether I asked him what could have caused
the pains, I can state the following. No, I did not ask him. He complained
about these kinds of pains from time to time.

   To your question whether I knew what the causes were of these pains,
I can state the following. I assumed that they were general pains of being
tired/being sore. I had not attributed them to a specific reason.


Did we ever see a statement by Joran that he had leg pains??  Who told the police Joran was complaining of foot and/or leg pain?? Or did someone tell the police to ask Joran about his legs??  Was he lifting cement....I mean something heavy??  Was he scratched or bruised??  hmmmmm

Did he kick someone.  He is famous for kicking people.  Was the charge "Heavy Battery" really Joran's charge.  Did they try to frame Guido because he knew what happened and they needed him to shut up.  I can see Karin Janssen saying let's charge him with one of Joran's charges.  Hummmm.

Hummm could possibly be San.  What else do you think happened.

I think that Joran became violent when Natalee got that phone call off.  She fought and he got a bruise on his face.  He became enraged and beat her to death.  The Kalpoes stood there and watched because they were shitting their pants in fear.

I also think that there is still so much evidence (blood) at the Sloot dump that is the reason that Paulus is not moving.

The only way for them to move is if they demolish the house and dig up the pool and whatever evidence is there and they dispose of it.  But they can't do that because they know everyone is watching so they are stuck there.

How do you think they could solve this case.

Good question.  I think that if one of the other suspects disappear another will start talking.  I would lean towards the Kalpoes.  They are weak and afraid for their lives because Aruba has threatened them.  What they would have to do is a secret interview.  Make someone come to the island and record an interview (like Jaime Skeeters did) but this time have the camera pointing right on them and answer every question direct.  Don't hold back because once you give the interview you might as well tell the world what happened.  This is the only way they will survive.

[greeneyedlady]

Hi all. Klaas if this has already been posted or you don't want it here, feel free to delete. 


Jonathan45



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 127

 Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:51 pm    Post subject:   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
LOOKING BACK V

Just after 5.00am, in the aftermath of Beth Holloway's raid on the VDSresidence on Tuesday May 31 2005, Paulus van der Sloot knew alot about the night Natalee disappeared. He knew that last night Joran sneaked out of the house. During the drive to the Wyndham [vice versa] Paulus was informed by the policemen about the missing American girl. He knew that Joran could be involved in the missing of Natalee after his son told the gathered people at the gate the first content of the second lie of his lying truth story in what Beth describes as " his sexually explicit and graphically detailed account." [page 49/50] Paulus became angry during the scene and shouted , in responding to his son's vivid and illicit account, that we were somehow out of line.
It was Paulus at that moment who interrupted his son, telling him not to say anything else. telling him he does not have to talk to us. And shortly after Paulus was shouting " No jurisdiction ! You have no jurisdiction. He does not have to talk to you ! You have no manners! No manners".
The police stayed outside this ring of fire Beth wrote. The HIlie made up by Joran and agreed by Deepak in his car after Paulus called him to asked where he was, was born with ingredients of another crucial lie in which Joran told Deepak that he left Natalee alone on the beach after a soft sexual encounter [no condoms] and that he walked home barefoot [the 2.26am call]
Paulus refused to let the police to go inside the property to have a look.
Joran was willing to show where they dropped Natalee off, so they drove to the HI. At the HI Joran demonstrated with great detail where they took Natalee, and how she stumbled and bumped her head getting out of the car, describing her over and over again as 'so drunk'. [page 51]
Quote; "The group moves inside the lobby, where Paulus and Joran lose control, yelling very loudly at everyone in the group in Papiamento and Dutch. The police make them leave the lobby."
Outside Joran and Deepak showed Beth again exactly where they dropped Natalee off. At that moment Paulus and Beth gave eachother a cold hard stare and Joran was popping his chest with an open palm, he said twice ' What do you want me to do".
Beth on page 52:"By his words, countenance, and bodylanguage I take this to mean that it's too late".

Joran's version [much more detailed] can be read in chapter 9 page 100 - 109.
On page 110 Joran wrote that his father was very stressed and angry and "I did not want my father to be disappointed and angry". He knows it's not my style to leave a girl behind. Lying was again for me the easiest way.
Joran after he took a shower: Their daughter is gone and we lied about it. I don't know how to explain it and I don't realize how bad it is what I was doing. The only thing I thought of was that I have two girlfriends and this shit is therefor too much to handle. At that moment I did not think that I left her on the beach in a vulnerable position. That's the only thing in my life I regrets most".

At school on Tuesdaymorning Joran got a phonecall from Paulus. Jan van der Straten told him that the best thing his son could do is to voluntary make a witness statement at the policestation in Bubali.
Then Paulus picked him up at school and during the drive to the policestation Joran called Deepak to inform him. Much more Joran couldn't say because his dad was sitting aside him. [page 111]

Paulus stayed close to Joran as a minor [his witness statement] till the end of the afternoon, when Joran went to Freddy to start 'mindfucking' him with the first lie about leaving Natalee on the beach behind, which he told Deepak after Natalee was killed.
"Can you keep this a secret , Joran asked Freddy [page 114]
You know you can trust me Freddy answered.
I did not tell Freddy anything else.

At 5.00pm Tuesday May 31 2005 Paulus was facing serious problems he had to solve. If he didn't solve those then not only his son but also he himself would be in big trouble. Not because he was involved in the crime Joran committed as the investigators thought he was.
It was his alibi for the nightly hours Natalee disappeared.
He wasn't at home. He wasn't asleep.
Joran's sneaking out of the house just after midnight on Monday was a complete surprise to Paulus. His oldest son, as babysitter responsible for his younger brothers, sneaked out of the house. No pokergames but a sexual drive this time. Yes indeed as Anita and Paulus confirmed :
" Joran was out of control. "

to be continued 
 

[msmarple]

More re. the bones found near the Natural Bridge last August --

http://www.amigoe.com/english/  10/19/2007

Skeleton ‘Boc’i Brik’ is German shipwrecked sailor

One of the archeologists at work during the research on the skeleton of Boc’i Brik.

ORANJESTAD – Scientists of the Archeological Museum Aruba (MAA) concluded that the skeleton parts that tourists found near Boc’i Brik (left of the small Natural Bridge near Puente) two months ago are the remains of one of the shipwrecked sailors of the German ship Hero that wrecked in 1886.   

The museum says that this conclusion must clear up all speculations that went around after the bones were discovered.  Thanks to good arrangements with the police, the archaeologists were there fast.  Due to their forensic knowledge network, archaeologists are always called when bones are found in Aruba.  They couldn’t beat the desecrators of graves though.  The scull and jaw were missing and some of the bones were not right qua ‘anatomic context’.  The archaeologists do not think that only nature was to be blamed for this.  Despite the big cultural-historic value, it seems that people have opened the tomb. 

It now appears that these people also knew that there were more persons on board of the Hero that were buried here after they were washed ashore.  All the tombstones were removed and sold. 

“Can you imagine how many people in Aruba have their own private archaeological collection”, says MAA-archaeologist Raymundo Dijkhoff that hates the fact that the authorities do not do anything against this.   “Even though the Malta-treaty can offer protection, and that the Netherlands has ratified it, there is still no good legislation to act against these practices.”

Educational museum employee Marguerita Wever said that people do not always realize that they are damaging their cultural heritage.  “They often leave initials behind or they use the old bones in voodoo rituals.  The biggest chance on damage is when something is discovered on private territories, when a house is being built for example.  A lot depends on the goodwill of the owners.  The owner of the Natural Bridge and surroundings was involved in these sailor tombs.

BOC’I BRIK

The name of the area where the bones were found, Boc’i Brik, was soon an indication of the origin.  All the stories about the name turned out to have one thing in common: an extremely powerful hurricane on October 17th, 1886 that caused a ship of the type schooner-brik to wreck offshore; hence the name Boc’i Brik.  There was just one survival, all the others drowned and washed ashore near Puente.

The research-team rediscovered the journal of a local official from that time, David C. Gaërste, which stated that the huge incident took place at the north-coast of this island, where the North-German Schooner brik Hero that left from Maracaibo with destination Europe, was totally lost.  Only the steersman (…) was rescued.

[ldstlou]

At 5.00pm Tuesday May 31 2005 Paulus was facing serious problems he had to solve. If he didn't solve those then not only his son but also he himself would be in big trouble. Not because he was involved in the crime Joran committed as the investigators thought he was.
It was his alibi for the nightly hours Natalee disappeared.
He wasn't at home. He wasn't asleep.
Joran's sneaking out of the house just after midnight on Monday was a complete surprise to Paulus. His oldest son, as babysitter responsible for his younger brothers, sneaked out of the house. No pokergames but a sexual drive this time. Yes indeed as Anita and Paulus confirmed :
" Joran was out of control. "

to be continued 

 
 

[ldstlou]

At 5.00pm Tuesday May 31 2005 Paulus was facing serious problems he had to solve. If he didn't solve those then not only his son but also he himself would be in big trouble. Not because he was involved in the crime Joran committed as the investigators thought he was.
It was his alibi for the nightly hours Natalee disappeared.
He wasn't at home. He wasn't asleep.
Joran's sneaking out of the house just after midnight on Monday was a complete surprise to Paulus. His oldest son, as babysitter responsible for his younger brothers, sneaked out of the house. No pokergames but a sexual drive this time. Yes indeed as Anita and Paulus confirmed :
" Joran was out of control. "

to be continued 

 
 

?? It dissappeared?
I had written, am I reading this correctly? PAULUS did not have an alibi and joran who was supposed to be babysitting brothers snuck out? This is the 1st time I have read this??

[San]

Hi all. Klaas if this has already been posted or you don't want it here, feel free to delete. 


Jonathan45



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 127

 Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:51 pm    Post subject:   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
LOOKING BACK V

Just after 5.00am, in the aftermath of Beth Holloway's raid on the VDSresidence on Tuesday May 31 2005, Paulus van der Sloot knew alot about the night Natalee disappeared. He knew that last night Joran sneaked out of the house. During the drive to the Wyndham [vice versa] Paulus was informed by the policemen about the missing American girl. He knew that Joran could be involved in the missing of Natalee after his son told the gathered people at the gate the first content of the second lie of his lying truth story in what Beth describes as " his sexually explicit and graphically detailed account." [page 49/50] Paulus became angry during the scene and shouted , in responding to his son's vivid and illicit account, that we were somehow out of line.
It was Paulus at that moment who interrupted his son, telling him not to say anything else. telling him he does not have to talk to us. And shortly after Paulus was shouting " No jurisdiction ! You have no jurisdiction. He does not have to talk to you ! You have no manners! No manners".
The police stayed outside this ring of fire Beth wrote. The HIlie made up by Joran and agreed by Deepak in his car after Paulus called him to asked where he was, was born with ingredients of another crucial lie in which Joran told Deepak that he left Natalee alone on the beach after a soft sexual encounter [no condoms] and that he walked home barefoot [the 2.26am call]
Paulus refused to let the police to go inside the property to have a look.
Joran was willing to show where they dropped Natalee off, so they drove to the HI. At the HI Joran demonstrated with great detail where they took Natalee, and how she stumbled and bumped her head getting out of the car, describing her over and over again as 'so drunk'. [page 51]
Quote; "The group moves inside the lobby, where Paulus and Joran lose control, yelling very loudly at everyone in the group in Papiamento and Dutch. The police make them leave the lobby."
Outside Joran and Deepak showed Beth again exactly where they dropped Natalee off. At that moment Paulus and Beth gave eachother a cold hard stare and Joran was popping his chest with an open palm, he said twice ' What do you want me to do".
Beth on page 52:"By his words, countenance, and bodylanguage I take this to mean that it's too late".

Joran's version [much more detailed] can be read in chapter 9 page 100 - 109.
On page 110 Joran wrote that his father was very stressed and angry and "I did not want my father to be disappointed and angry". He knows it's not my style to leave a girl behind. Lying was again for me the easiest way.
Joran after he took a shower: Their daughter is gone and we lied about it. I don't know how to explain it and I don't realize how bad it is what I was doing. The only thing I thought of was that I have two girlfriends and this shit is therefor too much to handle. At that moment I did not think that I left her on the beach in a vulnerable position. That's the only thing in my life I regrets most".

At school on Tuesdaymorning Joran got a phonecall from Paulus. Jan van der Straten told him that the best thing his son could do is to voluntary make a witness statement at the policestation in Bubali.
Then Paulus picked him up at school and during the drive to the policestation Joran called Deepak to inform him. Much more Joran couldn't say because his dad was sitting aside him. [page 111]

Paulus stayed close to Joran as a minor [his witness statement] till the end of the afternoon, when Joran went to Freddy to start 'mindfucking' him with the first lie about leaving Natalee on the beach behind, which he told Deepak after Natalee was killed.
"Can you keep this a secret , Joran asked Freddy [page 114]
You know you can trust me Freddy answered.
I did not tell Freddy anything else.

At 5.00pm Tuesday May 31 2005 Paulus was facing serious problems he had to solve. If he didn't solve those then not only his son but also he himself would be in big trouble. Not because he was involved in the crime Joran committed as the investigators thought he was.
It was his alibi for the nightly hours Natalee disappeared.
He wasn't at home. He wasn't asleep.
Joran's sneaking out of the house just after midnight on Monday was a complete surprise to Paulus. His oldest son, as babysitter responsible for his younger brothers, sneaked out of the house. No pokergames but a sexual drive this time. Yes indeed as Anita and Paulus confirmed :
" Joran was out of control. "

to be continued 
 

Thanks GEL.  Not only did Paulus stay close to Joran that Tuesday he also did not let him out of his site Monday.  Paulus never went to work, the bank, etc.  The only time Paulus came out of his house was when Beth arrived the first night.  He was in the house planning his next moves.  People were coming to Paulus (pool side meeting).  When did we ever hear that Paulus went to someone's home.  The Kalpoes meet at the Sloots and so did Freddy and his father.  Always at the Sloots.

[San]

At 5.00pm Tuesday May 31 2005 Paulus was facing serious problems he had to solve. If he didn't solve those then not only his son but also he himself would be in big trouble. Not because he was involved in the crime Joran committed as the investigators thought he was.
It was his alibi for the nightly hours Natalee disappeared.
He wasn't at home. He wasn't asleep.
Joran's sneaking out of the house just after midnight on Monday was a complete surprise to Paulus. His oldest son, as babysitter responsible for his younger brothers, sneaked out of the house. No pokergames but a sexual drive this time. Yes indeed as Anita and Paulus confirmed :
" Joran was out of control. "

to be continued 

 
 

?? It dissappeared?
I had written, am I reading this correctly? PAULUS did not have an alibi and joran who was supposed to be babysitting brothers snuck out? This is the 1st time I have read this??

This is why Paulus dragged his two others sons into the picture by saying he had to go home to pick up his younger son.  Both Paulus and Joran state this in their statements.  As we all know Paulus looks like he was having a good time partying with his son at the casino and he hand picked his target which was Natalee and he was waiting for her to arrive or he was out with his girlfriend while Anita was out of town.  The party was at the Sloot home that night.  JMO.

Deepak "Your own father" = Paulus
Anita "There were grown ups present" = Paulus

[ldstlou]

But I don't ever remember hearing an admission that Paulus was not home that night and didn't have an alibi???!!!!
Is this written somewhere in joran's book?

[klaasend]

But I don't ever remember hearing an admission that Paulus was not home that night and didn't have an alibi???!!!!
Is this written somewhere in joran's book?

No, I don't think it's written in Joran's book.  I think that is Jonathon45's theory.

[ldstlou]

But I don't ever remember hearing an admission that Paulus was not home that night and didn't have an alibi???!!!!
Is this written somewhere in joran's book?

No, I don't think it's written in Joran's book.  I think that is Jonathon45's theory.

hmmmm...now I am curious!! Could it be written in the book this way? Where would this guy come up w/ paulus not being home and no alibi???!!

[ldstlou]

But I don't ever remember hearing an admission that Paulus was not home that night and didn't have an alibi???!!!!
Is this written somewhere in joran's book?

No, I don't think it's written in Joran's book.  I think that is Jonathon45's theory.

klaas what blog is this jonathan's post on, I am not familiar w/ him.

[klaasend]

But I don't ever remember hearing an admission that Paulus was not home that night and didn't have an alibi???!!!!
Is this written somewhere in joran's book?

No, I don't think it's written in Joran's book.  I think that is Jonathon45's theory.

hmmmm...now I am curious!! Could it be written in the book this way? Where would this guy come up w/ paulus not being home and no alibi???!!

Jonathon45 believes Joran is guilty (so do I).  Jonathon45 believes that Joran's book is a confession.  You really need to look at all of Jonathon45's posts at Scrux.com to understand.   I don't think he has any inside information.  I believe it's his theory.

[San]

But I don't ever remember hearing an admission that Paulus was not home that night and didn't have an alibi???!!!!
Is this written somewhere in joran's book?

No, I don't think it's written in Joran's book.  I think that is Jonathon45's theory.

hmmmm...now I am curious!! Could it be written in the book this way? Where would this guy come up w/ paulus not being home and no alibi???!!

Wasn't it said about one of the witnesses/suspects not having an alibi in Shango/Simian.

[ldstlou]

But I don't ever remember hearing an admission that Paulus was not home that night and didn't have an alibi???!!!!
Is this written somewhere in joran's book?

No, I don't think it's written in Joran's book.  I think that is Jonathon45's theory.

hmmmm...now I am curious!! Could it be written in the book this way? Where would this guy come up w/ paulus not being home and no alibi???!!

Jonathon45 believes Joran is guilty (so do I).  Jonathon45 believes that Joran's book is a confession.  You really need to look at all of Jonathon45's posts at Scrux.com to understand.   I don't think he has any inside information.  I believe it's his theory.

I found it Klaas, now I gotcha. I have never gone to scrux so I didn't know who this guy was, thought it was in a translation of the book!! Now I see it is his theory. Thanks!

[klaasend]

Jonathon45 is an interresting character and I enjoy reading his posts.  Guess it helps that I agree with him that Joran's book is a confession