Natalee Case Discussion #686 10/14 - 10/22

[Rob]

ANDRE SAID JORAN AND GUIDO GO BACK TO JORANS HOME "TO GET MONEY"

Because Joran and Guido wanted to play a “live game”, they told me they went to Joran’s house to pick up money to gamble with
June 20, 2005 - Andre Dos Santos

- it looks like Guido needs a lil talk from Paulus also... otherwise why take him to the house? Looks like an excuse to speak to Guido in the cover of getting more money...imo.

Sloot's phones are tapped - can't talk to Guido over an open line.. that needs to be done in person. HEAVY BATTERY looks more reasonable now.

[Observer]

ANDRE SAID JORAN AND GUIDO GO BACK TO JORANS HOME "TO GET MONEY"

Because Joran and Guido wanted to play a “live game”, they told me they went to Joran’s house to pick up money to gamble with
June 20, 2005 - Andre Dos Santos

- it looks like Guido needs a lil talk from Paulus also... otherwise why take him to the house? Looks like an excuse to speak to Guido in the cover of getting more money...imo.

Sloot's phones are tapped - can't talk to Guido over an open line.. that needs to be done in person. HEAVY BATTERY looks more reasonable now.

I agree and I can't wait for the day that we hear about Guido's involvement. But why would the Van Der Sloot's phone be tapped on May 30th 2005?

[Rob]

How fast does the info get across Aruba? You be the judge from this Post at Race Junkies just a few days after Natalee dissapeared.

6-3-2005
MenaceIIsociety
some additional info... private jet to aruba... bank account into the
high 7 figures... spoiled little bitch... supposebly straight
owing to student, notsniffing, not snorting, not smoking, not whoring.....<<<<<<----------yeah right!!! anyway, contal, the family here have
friends in very high places..grumps...e muher bitch ey is nancy grace....conjo of his mother self self....mas bitch cu one conjo....jui of hooker if
you will.... also cu do not enough one of the type they here cu tawata in
car cune is jui of one good amigo of van der straten.....go figure!!!

they forget - come across

[igsigs]

Page 222 Loving Natalee

Peter De Vries reports that Joran almost confessed on June 18th,2005,when a Detective called Joran a devil.(We know that was Jacobs)

Joran said out of the blue "I dont know where she is buried" and mentions that he knows what they are thinking and that is that he called his father and he helped bury the body.

Once again June 18th 

DeVries called this interrogation a missed opportunity, something about ALE and language difficulties. The transcriptions are unclear.

The DeVries show and the DeVries/Jensen show transcripts are a great read. Looking back, we should not have been surprised at the Sloot Dig, with DeVries stating (about 100x) that the police no longer believed they went to the beach.

[Rob]

ANDRE SAID JORAN AND GUIDO GO BACK TO JORANS HOME "TO GET MONEY"

Because Joran and Guido wanted to play a “live game”, they told me they went to Joran’s house to pick up money to gamble with
June 20, 2005 - Andre Dos Santos

- it looks like Guido needs a lil talk from Paulus also... otherwise why take him to the house? Looks like an excuse to speak to Guido in the cover of getting more money...imo.

Sloot's phones are tapped - can't talk to Guido over an open line.. that needs to be done in person. HEAVY BATTERY looks more reasonable now.

I agree and I can't wait for the day that we hear about Guido's involvement. But why would the Van Der Sloot's phone be tapped on May 30th 2005?

there is some speculation that their phones were tapped before Natalee even got there and some already knew it. It's in the 600+ threads here.

Possibly Paulus was crooked and it was already known to the DEA or American authorities. He and others may have been being watched.

[Rob]

Page 222 Loving Natalee

Peter De Vries reports that Joran almost confessed on June 18th,2005,when a Detective called Joran a devil.(We know that was Jacobs)

Joran said out of the blue "I dont know where she is buried" and mentions that he knows what they are thinking and that is that he called his father and he helped bury the body.

Once again June 18th 

DeVries called this interrogation a missed opportunity, something about ALE and language difficulties. The transcriptions are unclear.

The DeVries show and the DeVries/Jensen show transcripts are a great read. Looking back, we should not have been surprised at the Sloot Dig, with DeVries stating (about 100x) that the police no longer believed they went to the beach.

just a minor point here- We know that is all true. The ALE should have known for sure with that statement that Lorenzo was not involved. The main suspect is implicating himself and his father. How could Lorenzo have made the jump to magician and locate himself in two places at once?

Lorenzo interviewed on 6-16-2005. Joran implicating himself on 6-18-2005. At that point they had the case closed. AGAIN.

[igsigs]

Gimme that cell PV for the 2:26am call. Something tells me that Kock's *hotel/beach area* quote could also mean *anywhere on Aruba*.

[igsigs]

More DeVries, and kind of disturbing...but...

The FOB transcript says that the police do not believe that the shoes are missing because there is blood on them, but because shoe imprints would be found on the body. I don't see how one excludes the other?

[Observer]

I agree and I can't wait for the day that we hear about Guido's involvement. But why would the Van Der Sloot's phone be tapped on May 30th 2005?

there is some speculation that their phones were tapped before Natalee even got there and some already knew it. It's in the 600+ threads here.

Possibly Paulus was crooked and it was already known to the DEA or American authorities. He and others may have been being watched.

I'M aware of the speculation but remember DEA or American authorities have no juridiction for wire taps and I highly doubt that would be the case. Aruba doesnt want anybody knowing there business. If PVDS did have a columbian connection like TJ Ward and others have stated then that would be the most logical reason. Personally I think Paulus is a law geek and a failure and his phones were not tapped until days after NH dissapeared. The contents of those conversations will never be revealed because Rudy Croes will never release them.

[klaasend]

In a thread WW started called "bye bye" 

[klaasend]

wonderwoman Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:03 pm    

resigned wrote:
wonderwoman:

If Deepak claims he did not write the 2400 word email, does he know who did or was he present when the email was being written?

some poster named Scubajab is the only place I've heard the comment that deepak denies writing them....

btw- there were several other emails between my friend and deepak prior to this incident that were used as comparison....unless someone else was corresponding with her for the last 4 years!!

 dun dun dun...

[Rob]

In a thread WW started called "bye bye" 

is her defense of Deepak complete or is she sensing a dismissal?

[Rob]

I agree and I can't wait for the day that we hear about Guido's involvement. But why would the Van Der Sloot's phone be tapped on May 30th 2005?

there is some speculation that their phones were tapped before Natalee even got there and some already knew it. It's in the 600+ threads here.

Possibly Paulus was crooked and it was already known to the DEA or American authorities. He and others may have been being watched.

I'M aware of the speculation but remember DEA or American authorities have no juridiction for wire taps and I highly doubt that would be the case. Aruba doesnt want anybody knowing there business. If PVDS did have a columbian connection like TJ Ward and others have stated then that would be the most logical reason. Personally I think Paulus is a law geek and a failure and his phones were not tapped until days after NH dissapeared. The contents of those conversations will never be revealed because Rudy Croes will never release them.

they don't need jurisdiction from Langley.

[klaasend]

In a thread WW started called "bye bye" 

is her defense of Deepak complete or is she sensing a dismissal?

Sounds to me like she isn't so sure Deepak is innocent.

[igsigs]

wonderwoman Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:03 pm    

resigned wrote:
wonderwoman:

If Deepak claims he did not write the 2400 word email, does he know who did or was he present when the email was being written?

some poster named Scubajab is the only place I've heard the comment that deepak denies writing them....

btw- there were several other emails between my friend and deepak prior to this incident that were used as comparison....unless someone else was corresponding with her for the last 4 years!!

 dun dun dun...

Renfro / Bondia also posted that Deepak did not write them, right here. But Renfro amscrayed when confronted by WW...so i could see why she does not remember.

[klaasend]

wonderwoman Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:03 pm    

resigned wrote:
wonderwoman:

If Deepak claims he did not write the 2400 word email, does he know who did or was he present when the email was being written?

some poster named Scubajab is the only place I've heard the comment that deepak denies writing them....

btw- there were several other emails between my friend and deepak prior to this incident that were used as comparison....unless someone else was corresponding with her for the last 4 years!!

 dun dun dun...

Renfro / Bondia also posted that Deepak did not write them, right here. But Renfro amscrayed when confronted by WW...so i could see why she does not remember.

Technically - he didn't author them.  He did sit down at his PC and type them.  It was a script he was told to send, IMO.

[Observer]

Page 222 Loving Natalee

Peter De Vries reports that Joran almost confessed on June 18th,2005,when a Detective called Joran a devil.(We know that was Jacobs)

Joran said out of the blue "I dont know where she is buried" and mentions that he knows what they are thinking and that is that he called his father and he helped bury the body.

Once again June 18th 

DeVries called this interrogation a missed opportunity, something about ALE and language difficulties. The transcriptions are unclear.

The DeVries show and the DeVries/Jensen show transcripts are a great read. Looking back, we should not have been surprised at the Sloot Dig, with DeVries stating (about 100x) that the police no longer believed they went to the beach.

just a minor point here- We know that is all true. The ALE should have known for sure with that statement that Lorenzo was not involved. The main suspect is implicating himself and his father. How could Lorenzo have made the jump to magician and locate himself in two places at once?

Lorenzo interviewed on 6-16-2005. Joran implicating himself on 6-18-2005. At that point they had the case closed. AGAIN.

Well De Vries specificly mentioned the Garden and the Main House and sure enough thats exactly the area that was blocked in the initial search. Something is in that dossier that makes them believe that is where it all happened.

We don't know if or how Lorenzo is involved. We know he was questioned again on the 28th and you would think once is all they would need if he was questioned from a anonymous phone call or a psychic's vision. According to that news clip he was detained not necesarily as a suspect but as a witness. I believe one of the pimps mentioned him in there statement which led to him being questioned.IMO

[igsigs]

Klaas > YES

The timing of when Deepak got off work...and when he hit send...indicate it was pre-written. IMO

[klaasend]

Klaas > YES

The timing of when Deepak got off work...and when he hit send...indicate it was pre-written. IMO

He was probably pretty pissed that he had to type such a long email too.     Then he sent Betty 2 more followup emails.

[klaasend]

Posted by J45 at Scrux:


Jonathan45



Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 129

 Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 2:47 am    Post subject:   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
LOOKING BACK VII

Joran's book, chapter 8 pages 76 and 77.

Paulus stated and Joran confirmed it, that he left the pokertournament in the Excelsior Casino at 6.30pm during a break. He went home to 'babysit' his youngest son Sebastiaan.
At that time Joran already lost and watched his dad playing well till the break. He also was hanging around in the [kleine] casino he stated.
Joran took his dad's place in the tournament after the break. In his book Joran wrote that at 9.00pm he is still playing along with 4 other players at the table and in the end he wins two hundred dollars to play and decided to
play blackjack.
The security video footage [a still] however showed Joran at 7.51pm entering the casino to play blackjack.
Or was he at that moment hanging around waiting for his dad who was still playing at the tournament ? His dad as Joran wrote wanted to see why Joran liked playing poker so much.
At 8.25pm another still of the videotape showed Joran, his dad, almost next to Natalee [ who isn't playing at that time] and her friends.
At 8.58pm another 'still' of the videotape showed Natalee re-entering the casino. During this blackjack table encounter Joran was invited to join Natalee and her friends to C'nC's later that night. Joran answered that he could not promise them he would join them later but he liked the idea.

At 10.33pm Joran is already at home because then logged in on the computer.

Paulus stated after his arrest that he did not pick up anyone the night Natalee disappeared. Though he changed his earlier witness statement by denying now that he picked 'them' up at 4.00am on Monday may 30 2005.
Was this new alibi based on the fact that only one witness came forward who saw his car at 4.00am returning at the VDSresidence on Mondaymorning ?
Paulus in his steering role knew that changing a crucial piece of his alibi would make him very suspicious and indeed he was arrested. So his witness statement need to be replaced by an official statement as a 'suspect': I was asleep all night. I never picked up anyone the night Natalee disappeared. One witness is no witness. My words against hers.

His new alibi: he picked up Joran at McDonalds at 11.00pm on Sundayevening. The same story Joran was telling.
In his lack of memory statement Paulus stated he went to bed around 11.00 and slept all night long. He did not hear Valentijn nor Joran who were active in the house later that night because he was asleep.

Why became Paulus a liar and believer in his son's lying truth [beach]alibi ?

Did Paulus went home to babysit or did he call during the break on Anita's cellphone to Valentijn's cellphone to ask his son if Sebastiaan was already at home and that Valentijn had to babysit til he was home ?

Paulus and Joran came finally home at around 10.15-10,25pm on Sundayevening.
Valentine went to bed. Joran on the computer.
Factually Paulus did not picked up Joran. He brought him home.
Did they came home after Paulus one and only casino experience or did Paulus return to the casino after he dropped off Joran to babysit ?
Or was he really asleep ? Why would he lie first ? Why did he make himself a suspect if he wasn't involved in Natalee's disappearence ?
To cover up his own activities all occuring during the absence of his wife Anita ?
To help Joran escaping from prosecution by lying his own truth ?

TWO ALIBI'S BECAME ONE after an intensily steering role of Joran's dad till Paulus was arrested under suspicion of being involved in the crime.
The innocent one, the father. The guilty one, his son.

It's a social genetic familysecret. To solve and clearify the missing of Natalee the investigators have to enveil this pathological web of double binds between the involved family members including Anita and Valentijn.


to be continued