Natalee Case Discussion #686 10/14 - 10/22

[Anna]

Sounds like a case for Interpol, Rob.  They are not only good at tracking pedophiles but also at dealing with corruption within police organizations.

I can think of another place that I would like to see them investigate police corruption.

Had forgotten that The Mighty T did make a few very nonsensical posts here, mostly to you I think.  The rest of us had no idea who or what he was and were rather taken aback.  Yes, possible BUI or insanity one or the other.

[Rob]

Sounds like a case for Interpol, Rob.  They are not only good at tracking pedophiles but also at dealing with corruption within police organizations.

I can think of another place that I would like to see them investigate police corruption.

Had forgotten that The Mighty T did make a few very nonsensical posts here, mostly to you I think.  The rest of us had no idea who or what he was and were rather taken aback.  Yes, possible BUI or insanity one or the other.

Anna- I must be honest. I never had much faith in Interpol until just recently. With the arrest of the pedophile in Thailand and a few other cases they have solved has given me a new hope that they are what they proclaim to be. I'm not sure if I am paying more attention to International cases or the media is making it possible for me to appreciate Interpol, or they have new leadership - I just don't know. Whatever it is - they are on a roll lately and seem to be doing some terrific work. They are to be admired for their recent string of arrests and the pedophile round up in June. 700 peds wrapped up and a huge network closed down.

I looked into Teddy and was wondering at one point if he was connected to Ed Smit. Guess I'll PROLLY never know. Come Across!!!

[sandy leiva]

..... Anita wasn't there to put on his "floaties."

("If you were home -- this would have never happened")

Wreck, Do you or anyone else remember a long time ago there was a home video online of a kids' basketball game and a chant to Joran evidently by people in the stands.

It was  _________  ___________  ____________  ________
you ain't got no alibi!  You're ugly!

Can't remember the first part of it.  May have been related to the second graders Sporter had been assigned to coach at school.

I thought then that if there is a cheer made up about Joran's guilt, justice had to be in the works.

But was wrong yet again.

yes anna i remember some video shown where at soccer game kids in the stands wereshouting something like that about joran, also i remember many of his classmate saying how joran bragged about what he did to girls and how joran always makes the girks cry. this was when twittys went to school to talk with the students there and ask questionsabout joran. then the headmaster came out and no more questions were allowed.  shortly after that anita was told and she called paukus to talk to joran and tell him to shut up.

[Anna]

Everyone knows everyone in Aruba we were first told.  Then later, no one knew their own cousins and other relatives.  Never met each other or even heard of each other even with same last names on tiny island?  And everyone knows everything that happens then suddenly they are like the three monkeys and know nothing?


But my personal circle of suspects has shrunk with time instead of expanding.  I have now come to believe that only Paulus and Joran and possibly Deepak were in on the original disposal.  After that, Paulus by himself or with a very few unknowns as I don't think Joran or Deepak know what eventually happened to Natalee but someone does and that would most likely be Paulus.

Paulus is too wiley to allow too many to know things that could hurt himself and/or his Sporter, IMOO.  Come across!

[Rob]

Anna-
I tend to believe as the Freebirds do. It all happened before Beth got there. In a very small window.

I'm still not sure if it is Koen's boat or Paulus' connections to Colombians - as stated by TJ Ward. It's one or the other in my opinion.

Whatever it was - they knew someone was coming to look for Natalee. They're risk takers, but not stupid. Well, Joran and the Kalpoes are stupid... but Paulus knew the - no corpse - no case scenario. That was really all that was needed to be known.

[Anna]

Peter deVries brings to me another thing that has been bothering me and after this must leave but will check back later for any comments on this.

If the suspect status is being maintain in part so that ALE can monitor and tap phones and email, why was it DeVries who found the photoshopped pictures Joran had invented showing himself with Natalee, two of them that we have seen? 

Shouldn't ALE have already had these and known all about them?  And yet we know they didn't because of their reaction.

At least I sure hope they didn't with their insistence that there is not hard evidence against anyone for that was as creepy behavior as it gets.

IMO.

[vms]

After all the discussion about Joran spending the night at school, I thought this post of Angelala's at BFN was right on target:

Fishing Expedition:

I'm wondering if anyone knows who was the teacher who accompanied Joran to that interview with Greta. It was a little odd... that instead of parent or attorney... he brought a teacher?

But... didn't really tweak my interest until reading all this about Joran staying/sleeping at the ISA prior to being arrested. That really sounds weird. I wonder why?

I'm kind of interested in anything anyone remembers about the teacher... his name, what he taught... just anything at all. Please.

Angela,
I still don't recall the name of the music teacher but bet Granny Toad will.  I need more coffee before I remember my own name this morning.

The ISA music teacher was Teddy Philips. 

Angela,
I still don't recall the name of the music teacher but bet Granny Toad will.  I need more coffee before I remember my own name this morning.

The ISA music teacher was Teddy Philips. 

Yes - Teddy Phillips




FYI - the photo I posted at BFN was edited out by Debbie

Debbie's edit said:  Edit to remove photo (there is no need to post pictures of people here that are not known to be connected to the case)

My answer to that is, Teddy Phillips is as much to do with this case as the other MB kids who you have photos of all over BFN.  This teacher went WITH Joran for his Greta interview which is very odd, IMO.

[San]

Why would he pick a teacher when he no longer went to school in Aruba.  He picked this teacher 1. for and escort. 2. He was coaching Joran before his interview.

This was Anita's choice for this guy to go with Joran.  JMO.

[vms]

San,

Why are we both inside the quote box? 

[vms]

San,

Why are we both inside the quote box? 

Oops, you changed on me. 

[San]

San,

Why are we both inside the quote box? 

  I posted and saw it and I deleted my post 

Let me see if I can fix yours.

[vms]

San,

Why are we both inside the quote box? 

  I posted and saw it and I deleted my post 

Let me see if I can fix yours.

TY! 

[San]

Whew I fixed it

[vms]

Whew I fixed it

Thanks, San. I did the preview and tried to correct it and couldn't.
I don't know what happened. 

[Maria]

I know I am in the minority on this but I am still not convinced Natalee was put in the ocean.  Pretty sure not in the beginning nor the first few days.  Maybe eventually but not immediately. 

Most think otherwise, however.

I vacillate on this as well.  On one hand, concealment at the Sloot compound seems likely.  Hidden in plain sight, safely under wraps but close enough to be able to monitor the status.  The ocean seems iffy to me because of the constant movement.  The ocean as a disposal site seems problematic.  I am betting on the backyard.  If not the concrete pool surround, then the shed next to JVDS' penthouse.  The claustrophobic in me hates the shed idea.  Big time. 

I hate both ideas. 

My gut feeling is that she was "buried" that night -- later taken out to sea. IF, she was taken out to sea the first night, I feel the "cage" was used. I kind of hope that is the scenario, though -- because the fish cage is probably the only hope of actually recovering remains at ses.

I read here all the time but usually don't post.  I go between all 3 - the ocean, cremation and VDS house.  The perfect place would be under the "new" concrete.  I'm not sure if they buried her the first night but there was definately something in the house that PVS didn't want seen in or around his house based on his reaction that night.  Cremation would have been the safest because no remains would ever be found.  Ocean also a possibility but that requires planning.  Also FM hunts could have been broken into that evening but that could have been a distraction like everything else in Aruba regarding the case.  Like the beach story which isn't true.  Each of the 3 places seems like it could be valid although I think the toughest would be the ocean.  Considering things do wash up.  I don't think PVDS was at the bank the next day - only that night for ATM withdrawals.  And then you have Joran being rude when Beth arrived that night asking where her daughter was.  And the other fact that none of them helped out with the search for her because in my opinion they knew she would never be found.  Local Arubans missed work and came and helped - but not J2K's.  The island is a small island - someone had to see something.  They are all corrupt.

[San]

Whew I fixed it

Thanks, San. I did the preview and tried to correct it and couldn't.
I don't know what happened. 

I wasn't our fault.  It was how Klaas made the post.  She typed in the beginning in red and then she typed at the end in red and I think that's what made our posts go into her post.  But don't tell Klaas I said that .

[Buckeye]

VanderSloot Home Movies (propaganda...IMO).  "Alibi" in very beginning.  Iwas always amazed by those that excused Joran for English being his second or third language since even his poem is in English.  Poor Medley, they certainly fooled her by speaking Dutch around her.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1587602

[San]

I know I am in the minority on this but I am still not convinced Natalee was put in the ocean.  Pretty sure not in the beginning nor the first few days.  Maybe eventually but not immediately. 

Most think otherwise, however.

I vacillate on this as well.  On one hand, concealment at the Sloot compound seems likely.  Hidden in plain sight, safely under wraps but close enough to be able to monitor the status.  The ocean seems iffy to me because of the constant movement.  The ocean as a disposal site seems problematic.  I am betting on the backyard.  If not the concrete pool surround, then the shed next to JVDS' penthouse.  The claustrophobic in me hates the shed idea.  Big time. 

I hate both ideas. 

My gut feeling is that she was "buried" that night -- later taken out to sea. IF, she was taken out to sea the first night, I feel the "cage" was used. I kind of hope that is the scenario, though -- because the fish cage is probably the only hope of actually recovering remains at ses.

I read here all the time but usually don't post.  I go between all 3 - the ocean, cremation and VDS house.  The perfect place would be under the "new" concrete.  I'm not sure if they buried her the first night but there was definately something in the house that PVS didn't want seen in or around his house based on his reaction that night.  Cremation would have been the safest because no remains would ever be found.  Ocean also a possibility but that requires planning.  Also FM hunts could have been broken into that evening but that could have been a distraction like everything else in Aruba regarding the case.  Like the beach story which isn't true.  Each of the 3 places seems like it could be valid although I think the toughest would be the ocean.  Considering things do wash up.  I don't think PVDS was at the bank the next day - only that night for ATM withdrawals.  And then you have Joran being rude when Beth arrived that night asking where her daughter was.  And the other fact that none of them helped out with the search for her because in my opinion they knew she would never be found.  Local Arubans missed work and came and helped - but not J2K's.  The island is a small island - someone had to see something.  They are all corrupt.

I agree.  Paulus was not at the bank the next day.  He was trying to show he was going through his normal routine when in fact it was busy at home making phone calls and cleaning up Joran's apartment.

We are going off stories that 4 known liars said.  Every one of their stories takes you away from the Van der Sloot home.  This is why Paulus was seatting bullets and hiding in the bushes when Beth arrived at his home.  The murder happened there and Paulus helped and I still believe there could be a chance that Natalee is on his property.

We have heard the story of a Fish trap, rope and a knife stolen from the huts.  Wasn't it Dompig who reported this story.  Why should I believe what that POS said.  Sometimes I think they want us to believe she was brought out to sea because they know it will discourage some people in trying to find her.  If I believe Dompig then it means I would have to believe his story that his brother in law saw Natalee with drugs and she died of a drug overdose.

I do not believe what that fat POS whose own son is a PIMP rapist has to say.

[Buckeye]

PVDS statement June 23

   To your question whether I can remember if Joran complained
from legs in his feet or legs during the period from May 30th 2005 to
June 9th 2005, I can state the following. I can remember that between
the time Anita went to the Netherlands and the time he was arrested
Joran did complain about pain in his legs and feet. I cannot remember
however if he specifically complained about that on Monday.

   To your question whether I asked him what could have caused
the pains, I can state the following. No, I did not ask him. He complained
about these kinds of pains from time to time.

   To your question whether I knew what the causes were of these pains,
I can state the following. I assumed that they were general pains of being
tired/being sore. I had not attributed them to a specific reason.


Did we ever see a statement by Joran that he had leg pains??  Who told the police Joran was complaining of foot and/or leg pain?? Or did someone tell the police to ask Joran about his legs??  Was he lifting cement....I mean something heavy??  Was he scratched or bruised??  hmmmmm

[vms]

San,

Buckeye, thanks for posting the video.

Maria, post more often!