Natalee Case Discussion #688 11/2 -11/13/07

[Rammstein]

How does one get evidence when a judge blocks searches at a suspect's home??

one appeals the judges decision or submits a better warrant (like the Dutch did last year).

Meanwhile, the suspects make all the evidence disappear.

This is illogical.

a judge is only a good as the evidence he is presented with. If the DA failed to make a case for the house search of the elder van der Sloot, then she most likely did not clearly show that there was a possibility that Natalee had been inside that house.

[Rammstein]

How does one get evidence when a judge blocks searches at a suspect's home??

one appeals the judges decision or submits a better warrant (like the Dutch did last year).

So Karin Janssen didn't do her job.

in combination with the police.

any other questions I will answer in the AM (it is almost 3.30 here and I am going to go to bed).

[Pita]

How does one get evidence when a judge blocks searches at a suspect's home??

one appeals the judges decision or submits a better warrant (like the Dutch did last year).

Meanwhile, the suspects make all the evidence disappear.

This is illogical.

Of course it is.   

[Anna]

How does one get evidence when a judge blocks searches at a suspect's home??

one appeals the judges decision or submits a better warrant (like the Dutch did last year).

LOL!! That explains everything!!

It's obvious you can't justify those questions and neither can the corrupt folks in Aruba. Those two judges helped kill this case and you know it. They are anything but honorable. You avoided the question about Reality at BFN also.


1. His arrest was anything but unfounded PVDS called Natalee a corpse before she went missing,The Court ruled that there are indications he had 2 contacts with Natalee the night she went missing. He obstructed a murder investigation and changed his story.

2. Since when do Murder suspects get immunity from getting there house searched?

his arrest was ruled as "unfounded". Anyway, Paul said "no body no case", he did not use the word corpse and the time at which he said that is rather disputed also. The court ruled there were suspicions that he had had 2 contacts with Natalee but as they ruled his arrest as unfounded I must assume that the judges did not think this was proven for else they would not have ruled his arrest as "unfounded"

Suspects get their houses searched and stuff is impounded, however, there are still rules that must be taken into account and most likely that means that the DA did not make a good enough case for placing Natalee near or inside the elder van der Sloot's home.

I wonder what case was made placing her inside the seucrity guards' homes.  They never laid eyes on her and yet a judge ruled that the main residence of the one last seen with her could NOT be searched.

[Anna]

Good night, Ramm.  I hope the flooding is not bad there.

[Observer]

So wheres the source that the court said his arrest was unfounded? Thats a bunch of BS!! Im not buying your BS as I have read enough from Dutch Law experts and they are all amazed as we are. The DA did make there case for the house to be fully searched but the Judge changed that on the spot the day of the search. It's obvious they threw all the rules out the window when they illegally tried to frame two innocent men and immediately searched there clothes,home and cars. Not collecting evidence from murder suspects is a for sure way to kill a investigation and they succeeded. In the Judges defence I dint think they acted alone. They were probably paid off or influenced by the Aruban Govt.

No doubt about it..These two judges killed the Investigation along with the Paul's friends and the rest of the cover up team. All to save there precious tourism as nothing bad can ever happen to a tourist in Aruba.

[Rammstein]

So wheres the source that the court said his arrest was unfounded? Thats a bunch of BS!! Im not buying your BS as I have read enough from Dutch Law experts and they are all amazed as we are. The DA did make there case for the house to be fully searched but the Judge changed that on the spot the day of the search. It's obvious they threw all the rules out the window when they illegally tried to frame two innocent men and immediately searched there clothes,home and cars. Not collecting evidence from murder suspects is a for sure way to kill a investigation and they succeeded. In the Judges defence I dint think they acted alone. They were probably paid off or influenced by the Aruban Govt.

No doubt about it..These two judges killed the Investigation along with the Paul's friends and the rest of the cover up team. All to save there precious tourism as nothing bad can ever happen to a tourist in Aruba.

The Dutch quality newspaper Elsevier quoted the courts ruling as follows:

Het Arubaanse hof oordeelt nu dat de aanhouding van Van der Sloot wel ‘ongegrond is gebleken, maar niet onrechtmatig'.

The Aruban court now ruled that the arrest of van der Sloot had "shown to be unfounded, it was not illegitimate/unlawful".

[Anna]

I love getting these emails.  Just got this a minute ago!

This is Mark aka MIP6.  If you read through his long winded post you will see exactly how he feels about Beth.  This is the person who has been allowed to post on a "family friendly" site.  This is a person evidentally Robin trusts.  Note, his forum status is the same as Robin's (active admin).

FYI - to Mark....we don't take orders from Beth or anyone else.

Just bumping this forward as I don't want anyone to miss this.  It's one of the most paranoid things I have read lately.

What in the world does any of that matter?  What does it matter if Natalee actually was exactly as portrayed by her family or otherwise?  Is he saying that means she should disappear?

Yes, it's all a grand conspiracy!  He is doing exactly what he accuses us of doing!  Trying to say everybody is in on something.

The fact remains there is only one family with a missing child and one country with their citizen unaccounted for.

And it's because of people like him and Julia Renfro that I boycott, not Beth.  Hate all things not American?  Heck, we're not even all Americans and many of us have relatives who aren't Americans. 

I just wish they would stop pretending this is something other than what it so obviously is and if they know anything, why haven't they told it long before now?  Maybe they didn't think it up yet or it didn't fly and they are having to reinvent.

They all hang out together in Aruba and yet if someone takes Robin a framed photo, it's some sort of planning session?  Maybe this is what happens to people who live in such a small place and are confined to a fifty or so mile radius.  Kind of like cabin fever.

But why are they doing all of this at this time?  Is it Beth's book or the trouble at the refinery?  If tourism is actually up as they claim, they should be very happy people and not be whining all the time.

MO

[Observer]

So wheres the source that the court said his arrest was unfounded? Thats a bunch of BS!! Im not buying your BS as I have read enough from Dutch Law experts and they are all amazed as we are. The DA did make there case for the house to be fully searched but the Judge changed that on the spot the day of the search. It's obvious they threw all the rules out the window when they illegally tried to frame two innocent men and immediately searched there clothes,home and cars. Not collecting evidence from murder suspects is a for sure way to kill a investigation and they succeeded. In the Judges defence I dint think they acted alone. They were probably paid off or influenced by the Aruban Govt.

No doubt about it..These two judges killed the Investigation along with the Paul's friends and the rest of the cover up team. All to save there precious tourism as nothing bad can ever happen to a tourist in Aruba.

The Dutch quality newspaper Elsevier quoted the courts ruling as follows:

Het Arubaanse hof oordeelt nu dat de aanhouding van Van der Sloot wel ‘ongegrond is gebleken, maar niet onrechtmatig'.

The Aruban court now ruled that the arrest of van der Sloot had "shown to be unfounded, it was not illegitimate/unlawful".

So wheres the source? Was this from PVDS attorney  Just because something is written in a NY Post,Elsevior or a National Enquirer it doesnt mean its true.

[Anna]

So wheres the source that the court said his arrest was unfounded? Thats a bunch of BS!! Im not buying your BS as I have read enough from Dutch Law experts and they are all amazed as we are. The DA did make there case for the house to be fully searched but the Judge changed that on the spot the day of the search. It's obvious they threw all the rules out the window when they illegally tried to frame two innocent men and immediately searched there clothes,home and cars. Not collecting evidence from murder suspects is a for sure way to kill a investigation and they succeeded. In the Judges defence I dint think they acted alone. They were probably paid off or influenced by the Aruban Govt.

No doubt about it..These two judges killed the Investigation along with the Paul's friends and the rest of the cover up team. All to save there precious tourism as nothing bad can ever happen to a tourist in Aruba.

The Dutch quality newspaper Elsevier quoted the courts ruling as follows:

Het Arubaanse hof oordeelt nu dat de aanhouding van Van der Sloot wel ‘ongegrond is gebleken, maar niet onrechtmatig'.

The Aruban court now ruled that the arrest of van der Sloot had "shown to be unfounded, it was not illegitimate/unlawful".

An unfounded arrest should certainly be illegal.  Otherwise, people could be thrown in jail for no reason at all.  But I guess that's what you are saying is legal.

I sure don't want to ever hear anything more about the laws and practices of this country ever, ever again! 

[Pita]

What was illegitimate/unlawful was the arrest of the 2 security guards.

[Observer]

Mark Purcell should just come out and admit he is a friend of the Van Der Sloots and a paid member of AHATA. One thing is certain he is no friend of Natalee's or the Family. This is a slap in the face to everyone that has spent countless hours trying to find the truth while people like him do the opposite.

[Pita]

Mark Purcell should just come out and admit he is a friend of the Van Der Sloots and a paid member of AHATA. One thing is certain he is no friend of Natalee's or the Family. This is a slap in the face to everyone that has spent countless hours trying to find the truth while people like him do the opposite.

Yes, seems like that post of his confirms it.   

[Tamikosmom]

from Corruption and Collusion/SM

DUTCH JUDGES RELEASE SUSPECTS FROM GIVING FURTHER TESTIMONY

The Dutch judges from Curacao also share culpability in ignoring these statements by the three suspects. One in particular was Judge Robert “Bob” Smid who is reported to be a friend of Paulus Van Der Sloot, and had even stayed at his home while visiting the island. On August 30, 2005 Judge Smid issued a ruling that Joran should be held another 30 days, flew back to Curacao and immediately faxed in a reversal of his ruling. Two and a half weeks later Joran Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers were all released from giving further testimony in the case.

On September 3, 2005 Joran Van der Sloot was released from police custody and fled to Holland. Drawing on an obscure Dutch judgement in another case, the judge ruled that Joran’s schoolwork was apparently more important than giving any further testimony in the Natalee Holloway case, even though he and the Kalpoe brothers disagree on key points about what happened the night Natalee disappeared.

first of all his name is Rick Smid, not Bob/Robert.

And again, he did not reverse his ruling, Joran's lawyer had filed a motion (separate motion) to release his client so that he could continue his education. Judge Smid ruled that his was acceptable as long as Joran complied with certain demands (like letting know where he lives and co-operating with the police and always appear to be questioned when asked).

Ramm

This sure didn't happen, Joran co-operating to be re-questioned. As a matter of fact we were all waiting for this in Dec. 2005, then we were told that they refused to be re-questioned. Why is that?

because Joran's lawyer did not just write the above request, he also appealed the original decision of Judge Smid to hold Joran for 30 more days. The appeal was held by a three judge panel and they decided that Judge Smid did not uphold the law/followed jurisprudence by extending Joran's detention with 30 days.

This meant that Joran was a free man and the decision Judge Smid made from Curacao (the one to release Joran with the conditions he had to submit for questioning whenever asked) was voided because it was made based on the original decision of Judge Smid to hold Joran in jail for 30 more days. The one ruling cannot stand without the other one and as the extension of Joran's detention was lifted by the appeals court Joran could not be forced to come into the station to be questioned.

Ramm ... according to Joran's attorney ... Antonio Carlo ... the reason Joran could not be brought in for questioning in December, 2005 was because this condition of release was lifted three weeks  after his release.

Janet

++++++++++++++++


WSFA 12 News
September 27, 2005

http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=3857796&nav=0RdEeaxB

“An Aruban court has ruled that three suspects in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway can remain free without conditions.”

“Wednesday's ruling overturned an earlier decision that restricted the suspects' travel and required them to remain available to investigators. The appeals court said there was a "lack of sufficient grounds and serious suspicions" to keep the restrictions on the three men. Joran van der Sloot and two Surinamese brothers -- Deepak and Satish Kalpoe -- are suspects in the May 30 disappearance of the Alabama teen. They were released from jail on September 3rd on the condition they remain available for questioning.


Joran Van der Sloot - No Further Questioning
Antonio Carlo
Live and Direct - Jane Velez-Mitchell
MSNBC - December 30, 2005

ANTONIO CARLO, JORAN VAN DER SLOOT`S ATTORNEY: OK, the information that I can provide at this time is that my client, under the Aruban law, cannot be obligated to come before the (INAUDIBLE) prosecutor to answer questions because he has now -- he has been released without any conditions. So under Aruban -- under Aruban law, he cannot be obligated to be brought forth to answer questions.

[Anna]

What was illegitimate/unlawful was the arrest of the 2 security guards.

It sure was.  It was based solely on the statements of those with every reason to lie about this.  Yet statemetns were ignored from those with no reason to lie about who was last seen with Natalee.

Isn't it absolutely horrific that this is legal and there was no judicial nor prosecutorial misconduct in that?

Evidently judges and prosecutors can pick and chose whom to believe and pretend all others just do not exist.  And all within the frame work of the law! 

[Anna]

Off to watch Greta.

[igsigs]

MIP6 is so freakin slimey.    

The amount of available information on the NH investigation that must be intentionally ignored in order to legitimize his position / attitude ... is massive! Goofball.

[Magnolia]

Re: MIP6....only a person with a severly flawed sense of self importance would
bother to write such an epistle.  Most who read it see it as total hogwash.
Surely Robin can see through him.

[Tamikosmom]

Klaas

There is a 3" border on the right hand of my screen.  Pop ups appear in the border.  This is preventing me from reading Mark Purcell's post ... about a 1/3 is cut off.  If there anything you can do from your end to rectify this ... I would really appreciate it.

Thank you

Janet

[dennisintn]

I think it is not really the Dutch legal system that is the problem here or that gave breaks to Joran's father/Joran, it is the Aruban DA's office and the ALE who have let down Natalee something awful.
[/quote]

ramm, i think you are totally correct here.  any system is only as good as the people running it.  
dennisintn