Natalee Case Discussion #690 11/21 - 11/23/2007

[klaasend]

http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/article1842115.ece

woensdag 21 november 2007
Joran van der Sloot weer opgepakt
Door NIELS DEKKER en PETER HONINGS

Justitie heeft gisteren Joran van der Sloot (20) opgepakt in zijn woonplaats Arnhem. De student wordt weer officieel verdacht van betrokkenheid bij de verdwijning van de Amerikaanse Natalee Holloway. Justitie op Aruba zegt nieuw bewijs te hebben.
 
Joran van der Sloot was al eerder verdachte bij de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway.

 Twee vrienden van Van der Sloot die op het eiland wonen zijn ook opgepakt. Holloway verdween in de nacht van 30 mei 2005 op Aruba en was voor het laatste gezien met Van der Sloot en diens vrienden Deepak en Satish Kalpoe.

Justitie op Aruba verzocht collega’s in Nederland plots om Van der Sloot weer aan te houden. Welk nieuw bewijs er is tegen de Nederlander en de vrienden, wil officier van justitie D. Kruimel op Aruba niet zeggen. ,,De officiële verdenking tegen Van der Sloot is betrokkenheid bij doodslag, dan wel zware mishandeling met de dood tot gevolg,’’ zegt Kruimel. ,,Bij het verhoor zullen de drie verdachten met het nieuwe bewijsmateriaal worden geconfronteerd.’’ Volgens de Arubaanse officier van justitie zal Van der Sloot zo snel mogelijk naar het eiland worden overgebracht.

De Nederlander verklaarde kort na de verdwijning van Natalee Holloway dat hij de Amerikaanse bij haar hotel had afgezet. Later veranderde hij zijn verhaal en stelde dat ze was achtergelaten op het strand. Ook zijn vrienden stelden hun verklaringen later bij.

Mede door dit gedraai werd Van der Sloot lange tijd verdacht. Uiteindelijk kwam hij vrij wegens gebrek aan bewijs. Van der Sloot keerde terug naar Nederland en publiceerde zijn versie van het verhaal in boekvorm.

De moeder van de verdachte, Anita van der Sloot, zei gisteravond vanuit Aruba dat alle betrokkenen de laatste weken zijn verhoord, ook zijzelf.

,,Joran is meegenomen voor verhoor. Maar waarom, ze hebben alles al minutieus onderzocht, ook de rol van Joran,’’ zegt Anita van der Sloot. ,,Wat is er veranderd, niets toch? Ze moeten een onderzoek naar het onderzoek houden. Er is zoveel misgegaan. Ik hoop en verwacht dat hij snel weer thuis is.’’

Through translator:

Wednesday 21 November 2007

Joran of of the ditch NIELS taken up

DEKKER and PETER HONEY

Justice has yesterday taken up Joran of of the ditch (20) in its place of residence arnhem. The student becomes officially suspected of involvement at the disappearance of the American Natalee Holloway. Justice on Aruba says new have proof. Joran of of the ditch were verdachte already more earlier at the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  two friends of of of the ditch which lives on the island its also taken up. Holloway disappeared in the night of 30 May 2005 on Aruba and for the last it had been seen with of of the ditch and his friends Deepak and Satish Kalpoe. Justice on Aruba requested apprehend colleagues in the Netherlands sudden of of the ditch. Which new proof is there against the Dutchman and the friends, do not want say public prosecutor to D. crumb on Aruba. , the official suspicion of of the ditch is involvement at doodslag, or heavy maltreatment with the death to consequence, ' ' says crumb. , at the verhoor three will suspect with the new proof material to be faced.' ' According to the arubaanse public prosecutor of of the ditch to the island it will as soon as possible be transmitted. The Dutchman explained shortly after the disappearance of Natalee Holloway he American at its hotel had turned off that. Later he is tale change and stated that she had been left behind on the range. Friends also its stalks their declarations later. By this gedraai became of of the ditch for a long time suspected. Eventually was released he because of lack of proof. Of of the ditch to the Netherlands and published its version of the tale in boekvorm returned. The mother of the verdachte, Anita of of the ditch, said yesterday evening from Aruba to that all people concerned the last weeks has been interrogated, also themselves. , Joran have been taken along for verhoor. But why, them everything thoroughly Anita of of the ditch have already examined, also the role of Joran, ' ' say. , what has changed, nothing nevertheless? They must keep a study into the research. So much has gone wrong. I hope and expect that he is rapidly at home.' '

A couple of comments through the translator:


its father "the judge in training" has brought about the verdraaiing of the facts. from its professie he indicates that at the hotel turn off, always by someone it would be seen! on the range for middernacht the chance nihil.zeker on less is? committing range. summarised m.i do not stink the,en about small beetje also further are the family vder closed very arrogant!!


To leave them those arogante but nicely lock up jellyfish... Papa has entirely spoiled this zero with its vele centjes. Tevens also a proof that you can get away with assassination in certain countries if have you but money


in my opinion always a beetje dark character was... will truth end up ever? hope it but

[Angiex911dsptchr]

WOW! I just got home for Thanksgiving to Oklahoma. I had NO idea of  this news until 5 minutes ago. 

(now do you believe what robots and I have been espousing?)

 fresh cigars await you 2.    LOL

And we may even get to see Angie running down the streets nekky!!

   Shhhhhhhhhhhhh.. there are probably folks here that don't know that I ever said that 2 years ago. 
   

i think i need to send you my address 

 Yes you will Robots  , you and Wreck both.  I promised and I will not go back on my word.!!

post it on youtube and we will call it even
hehehhehhehheehheeheheheheheheheheheh

Cigars?   Heck I dont know how to post on youtube !!  You wil get your cigars. Just need an addy.   

[robots]

WOW! I just got home for Thanksgiving to Oklahoma. I had NO idea of  this news until 5 minutes ago. 

(now do you believe what robots and I have been espousing?)

 fresh cigars await you 2.    LOL

And we may even get to see Angie running down the streets nekky!!

   Shhhhhhhhhhhhh.. there are probably folks here that don't know that I ever said that 2 years ago. 
   

i think i need to send you my address 

 Yes you will Robots  , you and Wreck both.  I promised and I will not go back on my word.!!

post it on youtube and we will call it even
hehehhehhehheehheeheheheheheheheheheh

Cigars?   Heck I dont know how to post on youtube !!  You wil get your cigars. Just need an addy.   

im just teasing ya 

[Tibrogargan]

i have this vision of Angie tatooed in my brain 

running nekid, with bunny ears, handing out cigars yelling "THE DUTCH WILL GET THEM ALL "

You have a very vivid imagination for a robot, Ravi   

Happy Birthday and you should be 90 by now as you have been 89 for months......

[Observer]

[IBE]

i have this vision of Angie tatooed in my brain 

running nekid, with bunny ears, handing out cigars yelling "THE DUTCH WILL GET THEM ALL "

Choice

[Anna]

I'm thinking cell phone records.

Me 2.  Maybe the *new indications* that allowed the Sloot search also opened up the ability to look into cell records that had been *protected* by earlier flying judge rulings.

Me, too.  Multi jurisdictional.  Something we could see.

Has JQK ever said cell records or indicated there might be a photo or anything like that cause he said it was something he had mentioned before.

Then again, he also said he was only 7-8 sure he is right on whatever it is so he could be wrong.

Am trying to think and cook.  What besides arm bones and cells would be multi-jurisdictional?  That is what is being blamed for taking so long.

But again, guesses but ones from people who just might know something.  Hope I can stay awake to watch Greta again at 12.  But one photo taken with camera phone with time stamp would do much for the timeline if that is what this is about.  Timeline.

.

[robots]

i have this vision of Angie tatooed in my brain 

running nekid, with bunny ears, handing out cigars yelling "THE DUTCH WILL GET THEM ALL "

You have a very vivid imagination for a robot, Ravi   

Happy Birthday and you should be 90 by now as you have been 89 for months......

hiya tibro
im crazy 

[klaasend]

Posted by Heli at RU:

Heli Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:18 pm   
TJ Ward Speaks to FNC on J2K's Re-Arrest Nov 21/07

I didn't get the first portion of this interview but here's what I got
recorded

T J Ward to John Gibson of Fox News Channel:

" .... I have just recently, in the last three (3) months turned this information over to the Dutch authorities and the FBI in Barbados.

Gibson:

So you handed this over when TJ?

Ward:

About two (2) months ago I turned this information over to the Dutch authorities and to the FBI in Barbabos.

Gibson:

And what did they tell you at that time? This was some pretty interesting stuff.

Ward:

They said that they would look into this information and follow-up with it. It was my understanding from talking to Dave Holloway about two (2) weeks ago that there were four (4) individuals that were being looked at by the Dutch authorities for an arrest to be imposed before the date in December.

Gibson:

So when you gave that information, did you attach names of suspects that you had in mind?

Ward:

I told them and I believed all along that Paul van der Sloot had knowledge, direct or indirect knowledge of the removal of Natalee Holloway's body or what had transpired with her to be removed from that island.

Gibson:

Did you draw in the brothers, Satish and Deepak Kalpoe?

Ward:

No, I think that something happened while Natalee was with van der Sloot and Deepak and Satish and I believe they panicked and I believe that's where van der Sloot's father came into play and he assisted or removed that body off that island.

Gibson:

If it turns out they removed the body off the island, then they would presumably have dumped the body in the ocean. I don't mean to be gruesome for folks watching but the mystery has always been what's happened to Natalee

Ward:

She's way out in the ocean or they took her somewhere from the removal of these Columbians that took this body off the island.

Gibson:

Ok, so your theory was on the island itself, how was she killed?

Ward:

I don't know that she was killed, I believe that she either died or something transpired while she was with the boys and something happened.

Gibson:

And they panicked

Ward:

She either stopped breathing, yes I had incorporated a system called Layered Voice Analysis and that's what got me to Aruba where I could tape conversations with this truth technology to see that the boys were lying, telling the truth or other and while I was there I was able to capture information from interviews that were in Dutch of Paulus van der Sloot and that system told me that he knew something about what happened to Natalee Holloway.

Gibson:

TJ, you might be the guy who got this train in motion and helped solve this case, thank you very much.

Ward:

Anything I can do to help you, let me know. 

[Anna]

*******,
Is that article saying they have nothing concrete on Joran??  What a poor choice of words considering the concrete poured at the Sloot compound.  I wonder if that is intentional.

[robots]

I'm thinking cell phone records.

Me 2.  Maybe the *new indications* that allowed the Sloot search also opened up the ability to look into cell records that had been *protected* by earlier flying judge rulings.

Me, too.  Multi jurisdictional.  Something we could see.

Has JQK ever said cell records or indicated there might be a photo or anything like that cause he said it was something he had mentioned before.

Then again, he also said he was only 7-8 sure he is right on whatever it is so he could be wrong.

Am trying to think and cook.  What besides arm bones and cells would be multi-jurisdictional?  That is what is being blamed for taking so long.

But again, guesses but ones from people who just might know something.  Hope I can stay awake to watch Greta again at 12.  But one photo taken with camera phone with time stamp would do much for the timeline if that is what this is about.  Timeline.

.

picture of Natalee in jorans room with a time stamp

ITS OVER

[klaasend]

Posted by Heli at RU:

Greta Interview on J2K's Re-Arrest Nov 21, 2007 TRANSCRIPT

John Gibson / November 21, 2007
Interview: Greta van Susterren by telephone

Transcribed from DVD recording

Gibson:

... this is an enormous story because there is still no resultion of this case. On The Record host Greta van Susteren is with us now on the phone. She's owned this story from the start.

So Greta, tell us what we know now

Greta:

Well, I can tell you what we know is that the Press Release from the police and you know in Aruba they keep things pretty close to the vest and of course we've all been pretty critical of that but anyway nonetheless, they claim to have new evidence and they claim that they've charged them with voluntary manslaughter and that it's supposed to go to trial by the end of 2007 if that isn't a typo because we're rapidly reaching that point.

Now I'm having this read to me as the release is in Dutch and also their local language, an english translation is due to me any minute so I can verify all this.

I've spoken to a number of people in Aruba who are all repeating the same thing. Hopefully not all repeating the same thing from the same source if the source is wrong but we do know that the two Kalpoe brothers have been picked up in Aruba and Joran van der Sloot has been picked up in Holland.

Now, new evidence sounds extraordinary. I don't know what the new evidence is. In the very beginning of this investigation the three gave conflicting statements and people have always been suspicious of them because of those conflicting statements but that's not so unusual. People may see things differently and even innocent people can make conflicting statements as well as guilty people.

The fact that they say "new evidence", I'm told that there's new evidence and that they intend to charge them and go to trial in short order certainly caught everybody by surprise. John I tell you, my phone jsut started blasting away 2 hours ago and the news is like setting everybody on fire

Gibson:

Greta, if we can just go over why these guys were released in the first place. Obviously, it was a lack of evidence and what would be the threshhold for re-arresting them now? What kind of evidence would warrant a re-arrest?

Greta:

Not only was it a lack of a threshhold of evidence but there was no evidence of a crime, that's what people have to understand. Now you don't have to have a body to prosecute somebody for murder but at least usually, when you don't have a body you at least have a pool of blood somewhere to indicate someone was murdered.

I don't think anyone believes she voluntarily stepped away; you still have to prove she didn't voluntarily step away but that a crime has been committed. That has never been established. All they have is three guys who were last seen with her leaving a bar, Carlos & Charlie's and the young woman disappears and you pick them up later and you have conflicting stories, some of which they even admitted to being lies.

What new evidence? I have no clue, I can only guess from my own experience that it will fall into one of two categories. Either it's some kind of physical evidence; I don't think they found a body and I don't think that because I think I would have heard that because people can't keep a secret that long, even though this is a country that has kept everything pretty secret. That's something kind of hard to keep a secret when we have so many sources in that country, that are active sources for us; or it's something testimonial, somebody said something which is oftentimes when you have these cases people get themselves into trouble long after the crime, they say something and that's what gets them into the biggest amount of trouble. That seems to me to be a possibility as well.

Jamie Colby:

I wanted to ask you about that because if one of the people they'd been talking to all along suddenly comes up not with physical evidence but a statement that they tie and make a causal connection between these three (3) and Natalee Holloway, does the span of time, we're talking 2005 when she disappeared play a role in its credibility?

Greta:

It depends, Jamie you're lawyer, it depends what else they've got. It depends on who's saying it and we don't know that. I think they'd also need some kind of physical evidence, something to corroborate the statements; we're speaking hypotheticals right now, we don't even know that it is a statement but if someone said something they need something to back it up so you know it's not some sort of phony statement at all.

Frankly I have no idea what they have. They have gotten us all excited before with arrests and everything so I'm hesitant to get too enthusiastic that there can be justice for Natalee and find out what happened to her. And look, over all, remember on our show we spent a lot of time talking to Joran van der Sloot and a lot of people including myself having spoken to him, listening to his story and putting it against some of the evidence, we thought his story was a rather persuasive one. Now he could have been lying to us but we thought he was persuasive.

I have remained very suspicious of the Kalpoe brothers, much more so than Joran van der Sloot so it could be maybe Joran van der Sloot is involved, maybe he's not, maybe they're all involved, we just don't know. All we know tonight is that something has drastically changed and that's that the three young men who were originally suspects are back in custody facing voluntary manslaughter charges, if you believe what we've been told is a translation of the press release and that they're going to go to trial and that there's 'new evidence' That's all we know.

Gibson:

Greta, thank you very much.

[memphis]

Hi monks!

Sorry to be asking questions....I checked in earlier this afternoon, but haven't gotten a chance to listen to the podcast yet.
Please, someone tell me that there is good reason to believe this is what we've been waiting for.

Forgive my pessimism, but I've been a little concerned about the manslaughter charges and that only the three are being re-arrested. What about Guido's 'heavy battery' charges and Paul's 'conspiracy to commit premeditated murder'?

[klaasend]

Posted by Heli at RU:

Nancy Grace / Dave Holloway Interview Nov 21/07

Nancy Grace
November 21, 2007

Transcribed from DVD Recording

Mike Brooks:

Mr. Holloway thanks for joining us. What is the first thing that went through your mind when you heard this news?

Dave:

You know we haven't heard anything in about a year Mike and I knew that we were facing a deadline of December 31 before they would be released as suspects and the proper authorities gave us a call today to indicate they were going to bring the 3 in to police custody today so you know, it brings up a lot of anxiety and the same thing you hear in the news media, what new evidence do they have and I've not been told that.

Mike Brooks:

Who exactly called you to tell you about these new developments?

Dave:

Well the proper protocol is the arubans will notify the FBi and they'll in turn notify me

Mike:

The FBI office there in Birmingham there, that gave you a call, that's been working on the case along with the other authorities?

Dave:

Well it's the same contact person we've had all along, it's in Barbados.

Mike:

Oh I see, in the legal attache office.

You say they haven't been in contact for over a year. So they just all of a sudden called you? Did they say anything to you about the evidence that they might have?

Dave:

No what I meant was we hadn't heard any new new in about a year. You know the Dutch took over the investigation back in September of 2006 and since they took over they would not reveal anything about what they were doing so a lot of phone calls have been made asking for information but obviously they wouldn't reveal anything.

Mike:

Can you tell us anything else the FBI told you about their extradition or any other process of getting Joran back from The Netherlands back to Aruba

Dave:

No, no, no, they would not divulge any of the details other than the fact that they wanted the family to know that an arrest would be made.

Mike:

Have you ever spoken to Joran van der Sloot or the Kalpoe brothers at all?

Dave:

No I have not

Mike:

What is your impression of them, I know you haven't spoken to them. I know you have been extremely close to this. What are your impressions of these 3?

Dave:

Well all along we've known that they've been the 3 primary suspects or the three persons who were last seen with our daughter Natalee and they've looked off in different directions but it's always come full circle back to them. They've been investigated for the last 2.5 years and hopefully with what they say that they have maybe we'll finally get some answers

Mike:

You said December 31 was a deadline, tell us a little more about that

Dave:

Unlike the american system, in Dutch law you can only hold someone as a suspect for a limited period of time. As I understand December 31, 2007 is the last day they could be held as suspects. It may not be the last day that they can be charged but the last date they can be held as official suspects. I think under a suspect status they can be called in for questioning and a lot more investigative things can be used as they are suspects rather than not suspects.

[Observer]

Jossy Mansur on timing of new arrests in Holloway case

http://tinyurl.com/286och

[Leslie]

I think Greta has the most balanced point of view on this case. I will watch her and this site for developments. Greta and Klaas -- probably the most knowledgeable observers except for those actually involved.

I completely disagree with you - Greta's opinions do NOT make sense.

Maybe you only half disagree with me. Klaas is okay, don't ya think? Anyway, we can all agree that this could be a good turn of events. I watched this case so closely and I was beginning to think it would just fade away without any resolution. Now I hope they're getting somewhere.

Klaas has an encyclopedic knowledge of this case and all the pictures too.   She rates an A++ for her hard work, dedication and brainpower.  
Greta scoffs at the notion that Paul was involved and is still inclined to believe in Joran's innocence but casts a suspicious eye on the Kalpoe's.  She is ridiculous.  

(Tried to post this many times) Johan?

[Tamikosmom]

I'm thinking cell phone records.

San ... I am thinking communication records too.  Those incriminating communication records exist ... Karin Janssen was centering her case around them.

Janet

++++++++++++++
 

Karin Janssen
'The Abrams Report'
June 29, 2005  

JANSSEN: We have much more information than only that. I can‘t tell you the details about that.  I only can say there‘s telephone, e-mail, chat sessions, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) messages and that‘s the sort of communication that we are investigating now. And it gives us a clear picture of where they were and how they communicate and what they said to each other.


Karin Janssen
USA TODAY
July 1, 2005

Janssen said the prosecution was centering its case around e-mail and cell phone text messages written between the suspects the night Holloway disappeared.  Janssen declined to offer further details about the messages, but said not having a body would make getting a murder conviction "more difficult but not impossible." 

[Observer]

*******,
Is that article saying they have nothing concrete on Joran??  What a poor choice of words considering the concrete poured at the Sloot compound.  I wonder if that is intentional.

To be honest I havent looked at it yet ..I hope it doesnt say that

[San]

Hi monks!

Sorry to be asking questions....I checked in earlier this afternoon, but haven't gotten a chance to listen to the podcast yet.
Please, someone tell me that there is good reason to believe this is what we've been waiting for.

Forgive my pessimism, but I've been a little concerned about the manslaughter charges and that only the three are being re-arrested. What about Guido's 'heavy battery' charges and Paul's 'conspiracy to commit premeditated murder'?

Hi memphis, I have been concerned also.

[klaasend]

Posted by Heli at RU:




Joe Tacopina Interview Nov 21, 2007 TRANSCRIPT

The Big Story
John Gibson / Jamie Colby

November 21, 2007
Transcribed from DVD recording

Gibson:

Joe Tacopina is a lawyer for Joran van der Sloot and he is with us now on the phone. So Joe, what do you know about the incriminating new evidence that your client being re-arrested and being extradited back to Aruba?

Tacopina:

I don't know anything about any new evidence and a lot of what Greta says is absolutely correct, let's not get too excited about the fact that there's an arrest. It's something that's frustrating because we're going through this again. Look, if there's new evidence and it's persuasive evidence we'll see what it is.

That being said John, what I've heard in my limited ability to get information at this point, what I've heard is there's new evidence against the Kalpoe brothers. I have no information that there's new evidence against Joran or anyone associated with Joran yet he's back in custody. There's a Court date for the Kalpoes on Friday but none yet for Joran so I don't know what this means and I also hesitate to jump to any conclusions but it is frustrating because there's absolutely no evidence that Joran was involved in this crime, if there even was a crime, there's no evidence that there even was a crime

Jamie Colby:

Joe, there's one difference here and we all learned that Aruban justice is a little different than the justice we have here in the United States, at least the process. In the past the arrests were to gather information, they were for questioning. This is the first time that the Prosecutor has issued a statement in connection with these arrests including your client that says on suspicion of involvement in a manslaughter. What is your take on that?

Tacopina:

It's actually not the first time the prosecutor has said something like that. I mean you have this investigation starting out with the police claiming

Colby:

That was different, that was statements by the Police Chief who had his own suspicions but this is an official release that went out over the AP wires that's now been confirmed. They're arrested and they're going to Court on these potential charges

Tacopina:

I understand but what I'm saying we've had Prosecutors in this case who subsequently resigned make all kinds of conclusory statements, statements of (inaudible) concerning the guilt of both Joran and the Kalpoe brothers and that went absolutely nowhere. This is a very different system than our system, people need to remember that. When you're arrested in the United States, for the most part you need probable cause to be arrested but that is not always the case in The Netherlands and Aruba

Colby:

But it certainly might be here if there's incriminating evidence. Let me just ask you if you've talked to your client and do you plan on attending this Hearing on Friday?

Tacopina:

No I haven't talked to him, I've been in touch with the family obviously but he's detained right now and we haven't been able to chat but we will and if we're needed on Friday we'll be there but right now the Hearing is scheduled just for the Kalpoes.

Colby:

Just confirm for me Joe if you can, I know your time is limited, you're busy at the moment, yousaid that the charges could potentially be just for the kalpoes. Are you saying that Joran has turned State's evidence giving information against the Kalpoes and we're going to get an answer in this case as to what happened to Natalee?

Tacopina:

Joran has no answers in this case as to what happened to Natalee. Joran can't turn state's evidence because he has no information to provide. Joran's been dragged through the mud several times in this case and we'll see, we'll see what this new evidence is. I'm more than skeptical about it because we did a compelte and thorough investigation, went down with a team of people, myself and Rosemary Arnold my partner. We went down there and spent a lot of time in Aruba. I'm confident that this investigation was complete and there's no evidence of Joran's involvement.

I believe him, he passed a polygraph and I continue to believe him but we'll see how this unfolds and we'll see what this persuasive new evidence is and just who it's against. It's hard for me to answer these questions without knowing what they're claiming.

Gibson:

Joe Tacopina, thank you very much.