Natalee Case Discussion #690 11/21 - 11/23/2007

[Nut44x4]

Posted at RU by MonkeyBunkey today re: communications

Does that require their arrest (and or participation)? Chatter has it this is all due to new forensics. Dugo's got a good idea about the server logs at bangbros.com -- but could it be access to hotmail.com's servers and J2K's emails. Surely that wouldn't take 2.5 years to suponea. Or did they all cough up their little passwords immediately.

I'm thinking the cleaned up the audio of the tapped police van tapes some interesting static and unintelligible parts of the conversation were had. Then again again nothing new as of yesterday cropped up in the forensics world to have allowed for this to have happened. Might it be cell phone activity related, seems to coincide with the full details and capabilities of their cell phones (only mind you) that they submited a few weeks ago to Dr. Phil, that plus KLPD's peculiar visit to the Kalpoe house to play with cell phone transmission / reception from within.

Did the 7 time airport fundy in Venezuela intercept and record their transmissions that night while monitoring aircraft ATC chatter. But GSM is encrypted.

"This brings up a problem: you both may have a digital phone, but they may not be operating in digital mode."

Q. Is it possible for someone to listen in on my cell phone call?

A. Possible but not probable. Today's digital cell phones are nearly impossible to monitor by the public, radio hobbyists, or any non-governmental investigative agency. Law enforcement and the wireless carrier itself can listen in but they would tap at the telephone switch level, not over the air. Just like with any ordinary wiretap. Nothing can be done about that. Let's not consider targets of the FBI or CIA. What do ordinary folks have to worry about?

Wireless to wireless calls

All digital phones like GSM/PCS types, ones that use a smart chip, are essentially impossible to monitor over the air. No over the air intercepts have been publicly recorded. Mobiles use a strong encryption scheme which encodes voice traffic flowing between the mobile and the cell site. Two people communicating with each other, each using a GSM/PCS phone, should have little to worry about. Older analog cellular telephones, though, can be easily monitored with a scanning radio or another cell phone, one that's been modified to do that. This brings up a problem: you both may have a digital phone, but they may not be operating in digital mode.

Some digital mobiles (non-GSM/PCS, ones that don't have a smart chip) default to an analog mode when a caller is out of a digital service area. So, if you are on an all digital phone in New York City but talking to your friend Frank in rural South Dakota, both sides of your conversation could be monitored from the South Dakota side. That's because Frank's mobile might be in analog mode. The person monitoring would have to be quite close, probably in the area of the nearest cell. Many mobiles signal when they default to analog but many don't.

If you're really worried use a GSM/PCS mobile and make sure the party you're talking to does as well. No, you won't have the best coverage across the states since the GSM/PCS networks aren't as built out. Failing that, if the other party doesn't have a smart chip enabled phone, make sure they are in digital mode with the mobile they are using. Until now we've been discussing wireless to wireless calls. But what if one party is on a land line?

Wireless to wireline

A far easier way to listen to your conversation is by tapping a landline phone from inside or outside the building you are in. At your firm's PBX, the telephone demarc point on an outside wall, or out on the street or up on a pole at a telephone company junction box. Any amateur can do this. In this case, if you are really paranoid, you can contact one of the companies that sell encryption units for wired and wireless phones. In this case you'd have a black box wired into your desk phone. Your people in the field would have smaller, matching units on their cell phones. Your call would then be encrypted from end to end. Something like the military has for secure lines, although with less strength in the encryption. But encryption equipment is expensive stuff and you'd need an extraordinary threat to justify getting it.

Privacy issues

Is privacy really a concern when using a mobile? I never worry about it. But I can see, from a liability and ethical point of view, that lawyers, accountants, and medical professionals might be very concerned about discussing matters over the radio. What happens if a client's privacy is violated? Companies trying to protect their secrets would also be at risk from stockholders if they failed to investigate this security issue. I think by taking the few steps above that you can avoid any problems.

One last thing since we've been discussing privacy: talk and toss phones, the pre-paid phones you get at a corner market or even at cellular dealers. They should be all digital, check first, and if you pay with cash there should be no records traced traced back to you, anymore than with a pre-paid telephone card. Even the spooks would have problems at first since they wouldn't have a telephone number to begin monitoring. If two people are both calling each other with this kind of phone then over the air privacy and record privacy will be virtually assured.

 



 

[AZSunny]

Posted on the front page of SM:

EURobert wrote:

Just on Dutch SBS6 ‘Hart van Nederland’-news:

-Joran probably tomorrow will be going to Aruba; he first had to be brought to a court/judge in the NL’s
-He was pretty upset (ANGRY) with his arrest! Mother said they thought it would all be over at the end of the year and she thinks this is all an act/play of Aruban Just. Off. and trying to catch at a last straw.
- At Aruba they can expect heavy interrogations and probably a reconstruction/re-enactment of what happened.

Anita said
""The questions they asked were so obvious, things like, 'Why did Joran leave his shoes on the beach?'" she said, referring to the place where her son said he kissed Holloway alone before her disappearance. "I think it's ridiculous after two-and-a-half years to be doing this."


I wonder if they think he was on the beach to catch/launch the boat there to take Natalie out to sea, and he took off his shoes and forgot them?  Why else would they be asking her about his shoes on the beach?

[MumInOhio]

Klaas... there was some discussion about a boat captain awhile back, and his girlfriend. Some sort of charter boat. Do you remember anything about it?
This is probably coincidence, but thought I'd ask! TIA

One of the early guys worked on the Tatoo. The one who saw them drop Natalee at HI.

Thanks BOC...it wasn't the Tattoo, some sort of charter, maybe diving and I think the discussion started around his wife or girlfriend. It was a while ago. Probably not important anyway.

[GrnLizrd]

Fox news is going to have a live report from Aruba it seems the soonest one i can find on TV

[Rob]

Klaas... there was some discussion about a boat captain awhile back, and his girlfriend. Some sort of charter boat. Do you remember anything about it?
This is probably coincidence, but thought I'd ask! TIA

Some guy named JJ?? Someone help us out here...Klaas went to dinner. Ummmmm......not pair-a-dice, ummmmm...oh what was the other boat??

Caroline and Pair A Dice

[Buckeye]

sharon posted (from DutchLady) on FP:

ust wanted to share Dutchlady from the FP

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/11/21/joran-van-der-sloot-deepak-kalpoe-and-satish-kalpoe-re-arrested-for-death-of-natalee-holloway/#comments

Dutchlady on November 22nd, 2007 12:19 am
A stray word/s in a bar, how simple. Narcissistic ego, the Primary Phase. Braggarts have loose tongues. Dankveil.



Also have a question if anyone knows. Joe Tapioca???? Is he licensed to practice law in Aruba? I thought he was hired for the CIVIL suit in NY that WAS THROWN OUT?? Where does he 'legally' fit in here? Other than the obvious that 'it is more than Joran that he is protecting'.


hmmmmmm....does make one wonder about the continued involvement (and original involvement) of Joe T.

Mum and Sunny picked up the bit about Val being questioned......why was he awake??....or....wasn't he????

[MumInOhio]

The Captain

Bon Bini!

I am Captain Peter Creutzberg, an Aruba deep sea fishing veteran (that's me on the right). Over the years, I've fought hundreds
of Mahi Mahi, Marlin, Sailfish and other Aruban game fish.

Let me and my crew take you out for a deep sea fishing charter trip around the island of Aruba.


Think this is the guy. IIRC his girlfriend was the topic of converstion and not a nice one at that.

Nut did you google the boat that explode? LOL

[Rob]

There is also this boat - 70 kilos of blow here . . .

I'd say someone has obsession!

It has nothing to do with Natalee's case however.







And there was the this one too. . .

[MumInOhio]

sharon posted (from DutchLady) on FP:

ust wanted to share Dutchlady from the FP

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/11/21/joran-van-der-sloot-deepak-kalpoe-and-satish-kalpoe-re-arrested-for-death-of-natalee-holloway/#comments

Dutchlady on November 22nd, 2007 12:19 am
A stray word/s in a bar, how simple. Narcissistic ego, the Primary Phase. Braggarts have loose tongues. Dankveil.



Also have a question if anyone knows. Joe Tapioca???? Is he licensed to practice law in Aruba? I thought he was hired for the CIVIL suit in NY that WAS THROWN OUT?? Where does he 'legally' fit in here? Other than the obvious that 'it is more than Joran that he is protecting'.


hmmmmmm....does make one wonder about the continued involvement (and original involvement) of Joe T.

Mum and Sunny picked up the bit about Val being questioned......why was he awake??....or....wasn't he????

Or was he even there. He was interviewed/questioned early on. He supposedly logged onto the computer.

[Nut44x4]

Posted by RAMM @ BFN
pictures of the police van holding Joran arriving at the court house, also a few words from Peter R. de Vries

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/item/2788/_Joran_van_der_Sloot_vrijdag_naar_Aruba_

when on this page, click the arrow on the video picture

Van drives up

voice of narrator:  this afternoon Joran van der Sloot was arraigned before a judge commissioner in Arnhem

picture changes to street were Joran lived until yesterday

voice of narrator: but till yesterday he lived in this quiet street in the neighborhood of Prezikhaaf. Nobody had seen the arrest take place, according to the neighbor boy across the street

picture of door, picture of house

voice of narrator: but during the past weeks a close eye had been kept on Joran,

face of the neighbor boy from across the street

boy from across the road: a few weeks ago police cars had been in the street and they pass bye reasonably often here, nothing else really.
voice of interviewer: but you did think the police kept the place under watch
boy from across the road:  yes, from now and then police was in the street

pictures of Joran arriving with daddy in the Netherlands 2 years ago

voice of interviewer: Joran, how are you doing?
Joran: good
voice of interviewer: what are you doing in the Netherlands
Joran: I have come to the Netherlands to start my education

voice  of narrator: two years agoi Joran came back to the Netherlands a free man but he still had to keep himself available for the Justice department but yesterday if finally came

picture changes to picture of Dop Kruimel press-officer of Justice (press-DA)

Dop Kruimel: the reason for his arrest was the result of the investigation, from that investigation we have gotten new evidence on the basis of which  we ordered the arrest of the three suspects.

picture changes to Natalee's face/missing persons poster of Natalee

voice of narrator: the big question is of course what new evidence the DA's office has

picture changes to Peter R. de Vries

Peter R. de Vries: that can be technical evidence, I could theorize that maybe his gym-shoes that he had lost on the beach have been found  and that trace evidence has been found on them, it could be that a witness have given an accusatory statement, it could be that they have found something during that late house search or maybe they sifted through the dossier and that they found conflicting statements not realized earlier.

pictures of camera crews on Aruba and then of a CNN team in Arnhem today:

voice of narrator: the Holloway case is being followed all of the world and because of that the news channel CNN dispatched a camera crew to Arnhem, according to Peter R. de Vries that is totally justified because he thinks this arrest might indeed lead to the solving of this mystery

picture changes to Peter R. de Vries

Peter R. de Vries: I am convinced that the detective squad is on the right trail, that Joran has been hiding a lot and has lies a lot too.
voice of interviewer: Joran van der Sloot is still the prime suspect?
Peter R. de Vries: Joran van der Sloot is the prime suspect, without a doubt.

[Buckeye]

sharon posted (from DutchLady) on FP:

ust wanted to share Dutchlady from the FP

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/11/21/joran-van-der-sloot-deepak-kalpoe-and-satish-kalpoe-re-arrested-for-death-of-natalee-holloway/#comments

Dutchlady on November 22nd, 2007 12:19 am
A stray word/s in a bar, how simple. Narcissistic ego, the Primary Phase. Braggarts have loose tongues. Dankveil.



Also have a question if anyone knows. Joe Tapioca???? Is he licensed to practice law in Aruba? I thought he was hired for the CIVIL suit in NY that WAS THROWN OUT?? Where does he 'legally' fit in here? Other than the obvious that 'it is more than Joran that he is protecting'.


hmmmmmm....does make one wonder about the continued involvement (and original involvement) of Joe T.

Mum and Sunny picked up the bit about Val being questioned......why was he awake??....or....wasn't he????

Or was he even there. He was interviewed/questioned early on. He supposedly logged onto the computer.

Exactly

[Blue Moon]

O.K. been thinking all day about what JQK said last night about it being physical evidence  and your could touch it. Something they had discussed before wanting but not getting.  The only thing I can remember was wanting to question Koen and not being able to.  Could they have questioned Koen and got ahold of his boat to do forensics?  I know the boat was sold (maybe to ArubaGirl) but this was mentioned time and again about wanting to question Koen again and very disappointed they didn't get to.  What do you think?

[MumInOhio]

O.K. been thinking all day about what JQK said last night about it being physical evidence  and your could touch it. Something they had discussed before wanting but not getting.  The only thing I can remember was wanting to question Koen and not being able to.  Could they have questioned Koen and got ahold of his boat to do forensics?  I know the boat was sold (maybe to ArubaGirl) but this was mentioned time and again about wanting to question Koen again and very disappointed they didn't get to.  What do you think?

Wasn't Hotshot referring to Koen last night? Don't know if it was about the boat though.

[Puzzler]

FOX News, Phil Keating just reported from Aruba about the evidence to be presented in court tomorrow and said it he's being told that the evidence is going to be "explosive".  He also said that we can only hope that one of the attorneys will come out afterwards and tell us what the evidence is.

[klaasend]

FOX News, Phil Keating just reported from Aruba about the evidence to be presented in court tomorrow and said it he's being told that the evidence is going to be "explosive".  He also said that we can only hope that one of the attorneys will come out afterwards and tell us what the evidence is.

Sneaking a peek from the inlaws, we haven't sat down to eat yet.

Explosive!!!!!!!

[klaasend]

Be back later 

[Buckeye]

Posted by RAMM @ BFN
pictures of the police van holding Joran arriving at the court house, also a few words from Peter R. de Vries

http://www.hartvannederland.nl/item/2788/_Joran_van_der_Sloot_vrijdag_naar_Aruba_

when on this page, click the arrow on the video picture

Van drives up

voice of narrator:  this afternoon Joran van der Sloot was arraigned before a judge commissioner in Arnhem

picture changes to street were Joran lived until yesterday

voice of narrator: but till yesterday he lived in this quiet street in the neighborhood of Prezikhaaf. Nobody had seen the arrest take place, according to the neighbor boy across the street

picture of door, picture of house

voice of narrator: but during the past weeks a close eye had been kept on Joran,

face of the neighbor boy from across the street

boy from across the road: a few weeks ago police cars had been in the street and they pass bye reasonably often here, nothing else really.
voice of interviewer: but you did think the police kept the place under watch
boy from across the road:  yes, from now and then police was in the street

pictures of Joran arriving with daddy in the Netherlands 2 years ago

voice of interviewer: Joran, how are you doing?
Joran: good
voice of interviewer: what are you doing in the Netherlands
Joran: I have come to the Netherlands to start my education

voice  of narrator: two years agoi Joran came back to the Netherlands a free man but he still had to keep himself available for the Justice department but yesterday if finally came

picture changes to picture of Dop Kruimel press-officer of Justice (press-DA)

Dop Kruimel: the reason for his arrest was the result of the investigation, from that investigation we have gotten new evidence on the basis of which  we ordered the arrest of the three suspects.

picture changes to Natalee's face/missing persons poster of Natalee

voice of narrator: the big question is of course what new evidence the DA's office has

picture changes to Peter R. de Vries

Peter R. de Vries: that can be technical evidence, I could theorize that maybe his gym-shoes that he had lost on the beach have been found  and that trace evidence has been found on them, it could be that a witness have given an accusatory statement, it could be that they have found something during that late house search or maybe they sifted through the dossier and that they found conflicting statements not realized earlier.

pictures of camera crews on Aruba and then of a CNN team in Arnhem today:

voice of narrator: the Holloway case is being followed all of the world and because of that the news channel CNN dispatched a camera crew to Arnhem, according to Peter R. de Vries that is totally justified because he thinks this arrest might indeed lead to the solving of this mystery

picture changes to Peter R. de Vries

Peter R. de Vries: I am convinced that the detective squad is on the right trail, that Joran has been hiding a lot and has lies a lot too.
voice of interviewer: Joran van der Sloot is still the prime suspect?
Peter R. de Vries: Joran van der Sloot is the prime suspect, without a doubt.

Go Peter DeVries!!

[lnichols]

Hello.... Very interesting news.... Happy Thanksgiving!

FOX News, Phil Keating just reported from Aruba about the evidence to be presented in court tomorrow and said it he's being told that the evidence is going to be "explosive".  He also said that we can only hope that one of the attorneys will come out afterwards and tell us what the evidence is.

Sneaking a peek from the inlaws, we haven't sat down to eat yet.

Explosive!!!!!!!

[Buckeye]

O.K. been thinking all day about what JQK said last night about it being physical evidence  and your could touch it. Something they had discussed before wanting but not getting.  The only thing I can remember was wanting to question Koen and not being able to.  Could they have questioned Koen and got ahold of his boat to do forensics?  I know the boat was sold (maybe to ArubaGirl) but this was mentioned time and again about wanting to question Koen again and very disappointed they didn't get to.  What do you think?

Wasn't Hotshot referring to Koen last night? Don't know if it was about the boat though.

Yes, don't know about boat, either.

[Tylergal]

FOX News, Phil Keating just reported from Aruba about the evidence to be presented in court tomorrow and said it he's being told that the evidence is going to be "explosive".  He also said that we can only hope that one of the attorneys will come out afterwards and tell us what the evidence is.

Not to be tacky here and hope no one takes it that way, but the Anita questioning for a long period of time makes me go "hmmmmm."  I still go back to that movie that was based on Natalee's disappearance, I believe it was a special edition of "Law & Order," where the mother was the major player in the girl's demise.