Natalee Case Discussion #695 11/27/2007

[klaasend]

http://amigoe.com/english/

Van der Sloot before the examining magistrate

Joran van der Sloot leaves the airport building of Hato via a side staircase, after a stopover from the Netherlands to Aruba, where he was interrogated during the weekend and was taken before the examining magistrate today.  The reason for the stopover in Curacao was to sidetrack the media in Aruba, which included almost all the American broadcasting stations and several from the Netherlands.

ORANJESTAD -- Joran van der Sloot (20) was interrogated this past weekend by Dutch and Aruban detectives under the direction of the Aruban chief of police Adolpho ‘Dolphi’ Richardson and one from Rotterdam.   

The examining magistrate heard Van der Sloot, who is suspected of manslaughter or serious body harm that resulted in the death of the American Natalee Holloway, this afternoon about extending the custody with eight days.  “We will definitely continue interrogating him in the next days”, said district attorney Dop Kruimel.  “Keeping him in custody is to get further down into the investigation.  This afternoon after 15:00, we will publish a press release about bringing Van der Sloot before the examining magistrate.”  This was after this paper went to press.   

Van der Sloot’s lawyers’ firm expects the custody to be automatically extended.  Bringing him before the law seems more like a formality, because in the procedure to get him in Aruba, the examining magistrate must have already examined all the documents; ‘kind of too late in the day”, said a representative of the firm.  The lawyers of the suspected brothers Deepak and Satish as well as that of Joran van der Sloot are still saying that they do not expect much of the ‘new evidence’ of the Public Prosecutor (OM): ‘The old information has been examined with new eyes’; ‘they have the same facts, but they have used a different pair of glasses’; and ‘like a shirt with four buttons instead of three’.   

One thing is for sure, the media interest is increasing in Aruba, but not with the same proportions an a few years ago, right after Holloway disappeared in May of 2005.  So now and then you can see camera teams in front of the office of the OM and the house of Van der Sloot’s family.     

Nobody wants to miss a glimpse when more is announced about the new evidence in the disappearance case of Natalee Holloway.  There are meanwhile rumours about the arrival of journalist Greta van Susteren of Fox News.  She was in Aruba just recently promoting the book of Natalee’s mother, Beth Twitty, who will probably come to Aruba this week.   International media is trying to get in contact with Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA), but in vain.  They want to know whether the ‘reopening’ of the case has influenced the tourism.   

‘HAVE DRUGGED GIRLS BEFORE’

The suspects in the Holloway-case have supposedly drugged girls before, so they could take advantage of them afterwards, mentions De Telegraaf.   This same morning paper also mentions that ‘justice has given the former investigation leader a hard rap on the fingers’ and he is no longer allowed to say anything about the investigation.  “Police officer Gerard Dompig suggested that infiltrators were put in against Van der Sloot.”

Not just the Netherlands, but the entire world is following this case.  Each possible indication is therefore used to make an issue from.  Former district attorney Helen Lejeuz, who as a lawyer helps Natalee’s mother, Beth Holloway, told ABC that the suspects thought that their phones are no longer being tapped.  “It has been a long time and people tend to relax and perhaps talk – say things they have never said before – and prosecutors and policemen have good and well-trained ears.”

CBS News mentions a telephone tap, indicating that one of the brothers have gone back to the beach the night Holloway disappeared.

[Helen Back]

Morning monkeys!

Enjoyed your video Rob!

I have confidence in Mos.  He is wicked smart and if these folks are really listening to him, they should be very worried.  I think he could go to trial today.....as soon as he drags in Paulus!  Maybe he's just letting him sweat.     Puddles of sweat.

As much as it weakens my stomach, I hope Joe Lackopenis and Rosemarie Arnold just keep talking.  The more they say, the stupider they will look in just a few days.  Joe is completely out of the loop and has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.  His theatrics generally work for him, as most people are intimidated by his routine.  Not Mos.  You can be sure he is watching and laughing.  At this point, he is just letting out the rope.

[greeneyedlady]

Bringing this over from pg.8 for those who didn't see it.

Posted by PearlinUSA @ BFN:


Refugees MF and Glenda mentioned in article and Aruban Police Site referenced .....

If we must t nevertheless concerning Natalee Holloway, I gladly choose the angle of an American visitor who reacts regularly.

 For example on the response of ' tj ' that writes: According to this well informed site the mother of the little girl Holloway behind this complete operation sits. This means that it Public Prosecution Service only has old information and false rumours. The judge will accept this never as proofs to condemn the three boys (of). Unless... He/they refers to this site. (links to refugees, see below)

Our American friend writes that this site is a well known Holloway family hate site. Julie Renfro mail under the nic "Glenda". Another Aruban receiver mail under "MF". All the bizarre stories that Gielen "reported" were discussed ate that site BEFORE the "news" broke.

 ' Tj ' could well be one or the disinformants. The poor family. There are a destiny or (purposely?) crazy receivers.... Just so mouthful paunch they are female. In other words: the bizarre tales of the calling journalists come outside themselves by means of that Internet site to and are then picked up in the regular media.

He sees still something remarkable on: the Internet site of the arubaanse police force refers ' news ' explicitly under the category to of the tales of Renée Gielen. "why that arubaanse does police force that?" our American friend wonders himself. I also.
 He observes that it Public Prosecution Service and the local police force do not sit obviously stipulated on one line. Home and look also bewildered here.

http://misdaadjournalist.web-log.nl/misdaadjournalist/

note links to:  http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/forum-8.html

and article now on police site here:  http://kparuba.com/news.html

where they had put a pdf file here:  http://kparuba.com/documents/news/zaakholloway.pdf

[2NJSons_Mom]

Check out the '2' comments on the 24ora article.....the 1st  and the 2nd is a blog that I can't read...

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/3071/5/#jc_allComments

[San]

I would feel much better about recent events if we knew our FBI had been included or kept informed by the KPLD and Mos, but I really don't think they have been. If Holland's efforts were sincere then I would think they would be inclusive with the FBI at this stage, all hands on deck as they say.

buckeye - great points you made and the right questions too

The best moment of the night for me was the exchange between Dr Baden and taco last night, I wasn't able to watch it until the replay but I laughed so hard when Baden called the K2 the Tacopina brothers ROFL !!!!!!!!!!!

Baden is one of the few honest men left in this game of the cable news shows. I won't hold my breath on Greta's report at 10am, I think she's likely just playing the Aruba angle for all the airtime she can get.

I agree Nonesuche.  The only time the family has heard any news is when the FBI informed them of something and I don't think it is because they are working closely with the Dutch.  It is because the Dutch decided to throw them a bone to make it look like they are working together.  If they were working together this case would be closed by now and none of this December 31st bullshit from Hans Mos.

Hans Mos said last night he did not speak to KJ about the case.  He said he spoke to her on the phone and she informed him about the case in Aruba that was still going on.  An idiot could have figured out that one.  The whole friggin world knows about this case.  As a professional I would have called KJ and asked her to tell me about the case so I can be up to speed.  It is always good to get your fellow prosecutors opinion on things but he did not do that and the one reason is because he knows it was a coverup.

Hans Mos is following form but only in a different way.  JMO

Maybe Mos wanted his "hand-picked" Dutch team to form their own opinion and not be influenced by KJ.  Let's face it...KJ did NOT get the job done....Mos knows that. 

Where's Anna?  Anna, did you get a thoughtprint in watching the Mos/Greta interview? It seemed to me that a look of disgust ran over Mos's face when Greta asked him if KJ had briefed him on the case.  He said "no" so quickly, it was almost as if he was really saying:  I don't want to hear anything out of KJ.  ha

The fact that they still have Aruban investigators on this case worried me.  We all know the ALE is crooked.  If one of them is Dennis Jacobs which I will bet they aren't going to admit he is but still is in fact involved then case closed.  They removed Jan Van der Straaten from this investigation when he was no longer in charge and he was still sneaking around on his own.  Send a message to the world and fire Dennis Jacobs for his actions.  They won't but what we will hear is that Fat Dennis Retired.  They told Van der Straaten to retire (He said it's voluntary) and he pops up to be the new police chief on Bonair.

[truthseeker2]

Thanks Truthseeker...do you recall if they said 8 or 9 days to get there and 2 weeks to search? TIA

I do remember the 2 week search time, but not sure how long is takes to get there.  The 7-8 days sounds about right.

[SunnyinTX]

I believe these are the links Sunny:

Hannity & Colmes (Fox News) - Dr. Baden & Joe Tacopino

You Tube Videos: 

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmqFgoNspdk

Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex1BvQrOBug

ROTF...taco boy was really going...I love it when Dr. Baden misspoke and said the tacapino brothers instead of the kaloe brothers.....tacoboy doesn't know crap!!!

[Magnolia]

Re Water Search:
Local news in Birmingham said the boat(s) belong to Superior Offshore.
Leaving out of New Iberia, LA.  Running time 7 days to Aruba.

[truthseeker2]

Sunny was talking about the "Tj" mentioned in the article I brought over that PearlinUSA posted I read over there but have no idea who they are talking about.

[snipped]

' Tj ' could well be one or the disinformants. The poor family. There are a destiny or (purposely?) crazy receivers.... Just so mouthful paunch they are female. In other words: the bizarre tales of the calling journalists come outside themselves by means of that Internet site to and are then picked up in the regular media.

Was that a post that had to be translated to English.  I have a hard time following it.  lol, but maybe I'm the one with problem.

[SunnyinTX]

Gotcha...I don't trust Dompig either, but we'll know about the search soon enough. IIRC they leave tomorrow.

tomorrow is what i understand as well.....and it's going to take them a week or so to get to the search area.....

[wizard]

Thanks Klaas

OK - not awake yet but I wanted to welcome all the new posters.

Also wanted to welcome back wwizard!

[SunnyinTX]

I realize some on here don't want to get their hopes up but I would say, have faith.

The 3 are toast already. I believe the prosecution does not expect them to speak at all.

Joran is not going back to Holland. Wait until David Littlecock gets a hold of the evidence. He may no longer want to represent Deepak.

I mean the lack of compensation was made up by him seemingly being successful, now he's a lose on 2 counts.

I'm getting greedy pining for that dirtbag woman who works for Tacopina is forced to apologize for claiming on the Catherine Crier show that Beth is in this for the money.

Joey will be gone by Christmas.

Mos will hang a stuffed Paulus on his wall.

  Frank I hope all you say here is absolutely 100% how things will happen

[San]

San,

You're right. If they do not answer, the prosecution's "evidence" will be taken as fact.

Joran will not see the light of day again.

The only question left is how and when they go after the previously arrested Premeditated Paulus

Frank, this is what I want most is Paulus arrested.  That premeditated charge is just too much to ignore.  I believe that was a slip of the tongue by Marianne Croes and this is why she was removed by KJ.  Marianne told the truth and the prosecutor freaked.  The world was not suppose to know that charge against Paulus.

[SunnyinTX]

OK - not awake yet but I wanted to welcome all the new posters.

Also wanted to welcome back wwizard!

Morning Klaas......

[Frank]

a big difference now is that Mos doesn't telegraph his playbook to warn the suspects the way KJ and Dompig did.

Make no mistake, the guilty are worried, they have no control over the prosecution.

[Magnolia]

I just heard that they are doing the final checking of the deep water sonar equipment today and will embark for Aruba early tomorrow morning.

[klaasend]

Posted by Heli at RU:

Greta Nov 26, 2007 Hans Mos Interview TRANSCRIPT

On The Record
November 26, 2007

Transcribed from DVD recording


Greta:

So, you've been here since May, so you've got the Natalee Holloway case in your lap, so to speak

Mos:

Yes, yes that was part of the heritage of my , of Karin Janssen, yes.

Greta:

Did you talk to Karin Janssen when you took this job, did you two sit down?

Mos:

Yes I did

Greta;

Was this one of the cases she briefed you on?

Mos:

No she did not, I didn't talk to her personally, I talked to her on the phone and she of course told me that this was goingon here.

Greta:

Before you took the job in May, were you aware of the Natalee Holloway case that made a lot, that got a lot of attention in Holland?

Mos:

We saw the same as all the american spectators saw on american television, we saw all the same on Dutch teleivsion, of course, yes.

Greta:

Since you've been here you sort of actually surprised all of us when a press release came out saying that there had been new evidence that led to the arrests. How do you define new evidence?

Mos:

New evidence is evidence that you didn't have before, as simple as that.

Greta:

And does it have to be of a compelling nature or I mean, is it damning evidence, evidence that would make a prosecutor think 'oh my God, now I've got the goods' ?

Mos:

Depends on the case, depends how far you came in the past. You know that the evidencein a murder case could hang up to one hair of the suspect and that is just a very small piece of evidence but it's very important. What we gave to the judge is evidence enough to arrest these guys again 2 years after they have been freed by the Court in Curacao so the judge weighed this evidence and of course, when you arrest a person 2 years later after he's been freed, you have to have some serious stuff and that's exactly what we handed off to the judge.

Greta:

In your press release you said a decision would be made by the end of the year whether to prosecute or not. Why did you set that timetable? is that just your personal timetable or does the law require you in a certain amount of time?

Mos:

That was it exactly, a persoal timetable. The two brothers who are involved in this case asked the Court to end their case. To give my organization who's prosecuting this case the Order to stop this case because there's no new evidence, we didn't do anything anymore is what they said to the Court and this case had to be stopped. They had legal possibility to ask the Court to take that decision.

We convinced the Judge during that hearing that we were on the job and trying to solve this case the best we could. There was a team that came from The Netherlands who did new findings, then we said to ourselves can we prolong this case until, for years. That is not psosible, that is not possible under th european treaty which says that you have to try a case within a reasonable time and that time stands for about 2 years. These 2 years already had passed, so you have to be busy on a case which is important enough to go over that period of 2 years.

And then we said we have to set oursevles a time limit and we have to take a decision in this case, whether we take it to Court or not or dismiss it. We set ourselves this time limit of 31st of December then we will take the decision, ultimately to charge these 3 suspects or dismiss the case

Greta:

Do you have to pick them up to make that decision?

Mos:

That's a good question, yes we thought we did because there was new evidence gained after the moment they were released, which is 2 years ago and there quite a lot of evidence, at least a lot of materiald and there's a lot of evidence, yes it's just material but they have to be confronted with it because they were never confronted with those findings. We progress in this investigation quite a lot and they don't even know what we got in the meantime, so we had to confront them with it. They are suspects each of them and they are witnesses against the other if possible, so we have to question them and what we think is very important at least the Dutch suspect instead of the two Surinames and his father who was one way or the other involved in this case, have said in interviews that they are willing to talk, they are willing to disclose what happened in the past at a time set by them. I think it is very important that this is the time to disclose this information to the public and to us because their point of view is their son or this suspect, this Dutch suspect didn't do anything but he has information and he doesn't give it. We think that's unthinkable. If we have this information we have right now, then he should disclose this information to us. The same counts for the other two suspects who also has said, at least one of them that he will disclose it in due time that he is not involved, well let him disclose it because we are only seeking the truth, what happened? That's what we're aiming for and if this information given by them shows that they are not involved, then they will not be prosecuted but we don't think that that's the case

Greta:

Did you ask them voluntarily to come forward and say 'give us that information' did they refuse and thus you are using the system as you are lawfully able to and pick them up? Did you say 'come in here voluntarily and talk to us?'

Mos:

Their attitude duringcertain investigation moments we had during the last few months is such that we didn't have any idea that they would voluntarily come to our police station and talk to us so we didn't have any confidence in that and we thought given the evidence we have and given the suspicion they're under being involved in the disappearance and in the killing of a girl, that you cannot do this just by asking them to come to the police station and talk to us, we want to interrogate them as they should be and as it has to be done and that's what we are doing right now.

Greta:

In your press release it says 'voluntary manslaughter'. What is voluntary manslaughter?

Mos:

Voluntary manslaughter under aruban law is a situation that you kill a person with intent and the question is if it's premeditated which should be murder, we scratch through the murder suspicion because we don't have any evidence of that there's premeditation on the killing of this girl but if, for example, you take an axe with the intention to hit a person just to make him suffer, to make him have pain but you hit him with that axe on the head with force, then you should take into account that this person could be killed by that action, that's a risk you take and that's what we mean with voluntary manslaughter

Greta:

Meaning that you took an action a reasonable person could assume would cause death

Mos:

Exactly

Greta:

It's not just sort of you back out of a driveway and run over somebody

Mos:

That will be involuntary manslaughter and that's not what we intend for

Greta:

Does your new evidence, there's different types of murder obviously, involuntary and voluntary manslaughter and then there's murder. Does your new evidence suggest manslaughter?

Mos:

Otherwise we wouldn't have put it on the list of suspicions

Greta:

It seems to me that your new evidence would have to fall into a number of categories, one being inconsistencies would be new evidence, if there's inconsistencies between the three and another could be testimonials, someobdy has said something and you could have physical evidence that you could come up with, whether it's forensic evidence from a computer or body or whatever. Can you tell me what category the new evidence is in?

Mos:

No I cannot. I told you in the past that these interrogations and the fact that these suspects are under restrictions and are not allowed to discuss anything what's been said to them and been presented to him with other people than their lawyers, so they can only talk to their lawyers. We don't want them to make up new preconcerted or concerted statements as has been the case in the past. We have these nice concerted statements of these suspects, we don't want anymore, we want their stories based on the evidence we present to them, so that's the reason I'm not going to disclose that to you because they might learn that through their lawyers which we don't want to.

Greta:

I'm confused. You cannot tell me whether it's physical evidence this new evidence or it's testimonial

Mos:

I'm not going to tell you, it's all in the interest of the investigation because you know this investigation has been going on for a long time. People ask me 'is this a desperate, last try at the public prosecutor's office'. We are not desperate and yes it may be a last try at solving this case, which we are determined to do, which we are trying to do as best as we can but give us the time and the peace to do this under this law system as well as we can. These restrictions go with trying to do it as best as we can and I know it's very bad for the public, any public as anyone wants to know what's going on but we cannot disclose it at this time.

Greta:

Well, quite frankly, we don't want to hurt the investigation

Mos:

Well that's exactly what I'm (inaudible)

Greta:

We don't want to hurt it either

Mos:

Well that's great, that's exactly what I'm appealing to

Greta:

Will you be part of the interrogation of the three? Is that the role of the Chief Prosecutor?

Mos:

No I will not, I am coaching in this case and I'm going to use my experience I have in cases like this. There's another case lawyer dealing with this case, she's doing fine, that's great and I'm just helping her out. These are tough decisions we have been taking and we are not doing it on our own, it's not just one person taking that decision. We take it as an organization (inaudible) we knew that there were 45 people and they contribute in one way or another in this case, either in investigating cases, either in making paperwork, either in bringing papers to the Judge or in thinking about the case and this decision to re-arrest these 3 suspects is a decision taken by 10 lawyers sitting around a table all afternoon being presented the new material and we thought about it a lot and of course we thought about all the press attention coming with it. That's a tough decision to take because we know this press attention in the past didn't do Aruba much good and that's exactly the reason we are talking to your right now, because we don't want to do anything covered or not in the open. We want to tell and account for what we are doing and that's what we are trying to do rightnow.

Note from Heli:  This is not the entire interview. I cannot complete it right
now but will later. I'll note 'FULL TRANSCRIPT' in the thread title when
I post the remainder.

[BUCKSHOT]

Aruba: Premeditated Paulus in Mos-hairs
If you're Hans Mos, you're not coming to Aruba to hunt 3 chipmunks like Joran and the Kalpoes. You're coming for bigger game.

Paulus van der sloot is bigger game.

Unless Joe Tacopina's story that Joran and the chipmunks cell phones just happen to drift 3-5 miles offshore and we're pinged and forensically proven, the 3 are about to know that knee buckling feeling when your done.

But it's Paulus Hans Mos is after. The court has already said he has lied, has had contact with Natalee on multiple occasions and is, in the court's view, likely responsible for her disappearance. He was arrested for the premeditated murder of Natalee Holloway.

Janssen as we've written was a tart, a person way over her head, a legal nanny. Mos didn't go to Aruba to babysit anything. He came to end the embarrassment that is Aruba and the van der sloots.

Joran and the Kalpoes are just the beginning. Mos is letting everyone up the chain have their poison. Fall on your own sword, or I'll do it for you.

Premeditated Paulus connects the dots to the adults in this vicious crime. But once Mos has bagged his big game, he'll be back to Holland hunting again.

Oduber, Croes and van der straaten will have different masters. Interest will fade, but the satisfaction of everyone who witnessed this crime will be sated.

Especially after we all sign the card sent to Paulus and Joran letting them know, that no matter what, if and when they every see the light of day again, we'll be waiting.

[Puzzler]

Morning monkeys!

Enjoyed your video Rob!

I have confidence in Mos.  He is wicked smart and if these folks are really listening to him, they should be very worried.  I think he could go to trial today.....as soon as he drags in Paulus!  Maybe he's just letting him sweat.     Puddles of sweat.

As much as it weakens my stomach, I hope Joe Lackopenis and Rosemarie Arnold just keep talking.  The more they say, the stupider they will look in just a few days.  Joe is completely out of the loop and has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.  His theatrics generally work for him, as most people are intimidated by his routine.  Not Mos.  You can be sure he is watching and laughing.  At this point, he is just letting out the rope.

Well put....100% in agreement.  "Wicked smart"

[MumInOhio]

This from Nancy Grace transcript from last night..don't know who is talking or who CNN is getting their info from.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: CNN has learned investigators found discrepancies after re-analyzing the time and location of e-mails, text messages and phone calls among the three suspects the night Natalee Holloway disappeared. The chief prosecutor says by year`s end, he hopes to decide whether to try the three young men for manslaughter. If found guilty, they`d face 15 years in prison.