Natalee Case Discussion #695 11/27/2007

[IBE]

GOODNIGHT ALL!  I'm hoping tomorrow is PVDS day 

Gads... the cameraman went fast too. Looks as if he couldn't see the hole for the key. Maybe the door will be opened tomorrow!

[sirensong]

   I have been trying to catch up all day!  So many posts and ideas to share!  Just wanted to let all who feel ignored that is not the case.  Like me, I want to respond to some posts, but they become 20 pages back so  I feel like the conversation has moved on too much to respond to that particular post!  Anyway, "Nice to meet all you new posters, and all that have been around and are talking again!"  I am convinced Mos and Dutch authorities read Scared Monkeys and that is where they got the information as to prosecute the case and what to look at that was ignored originally.  Everything he has  said was originally posted and specutlated on by our smart monkeys.  

Thank you to all that congratulated me earlier.  Now I am  going to go watch the  programs I missed.  Thanks to Carpe for getting those on you tube for us.

[Anna]

AHA!  Thanks!  I knew I heard that somewhere.  Yes, indeed!  Inside the home of Satish.  So Deepak and Satish were yakking it over and they have it on tape.  I bet that alone is proof Natalee is deceased!  Bet they were talking it over and plotting and scheming like anything.

I never thought about it being a conversation between just the two brothers, but that is quite likely.  Man I can only imagine how pissed Joran would be with them right now if that is what happened.
[/quote]


A bug in their room where they talk late at night after Nadira is fast asleep?  Just imagine what they might have been saying to each other.  Details, details, details.  Would not have to necessarily be to Joran.

Remember somebody saying that if Deepak said he and Joran did it, it could not be used against Joran as an example.  Now I am thinking that may have come from somebody who knew something. 

But I would think that it COULD be used against Joran if they were talking about something they did with him regardless what this bevy of defense attorneys goes around saying.

Mos also said the REAL best evidence would only be revealed in trial so the Kalpoe's attorneys are blowing smoke when they say they have THE evidence.  What they have is only the part used for the present detention of their client.

Mos oozes intelligence to me.  I think this is what they needed in this investigation, somebody smarter than the punks all put together and I include Paulus in that.

MO

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[Anna]

Now Phase II and this is pure speculation on my part.

Mos has the Kalpoe brothers whispering late at night about what happened.  He needs Joran also.  Wire somebody to infiltrate and get Joran saying the same thing.  Then they have them. 

MO

.

[Hat]

Mos pretty restrained. What does he have that Jannsen didn't?
The will. The ability. The organization at least.

Karin had enough conflicting interrogation product to show multiple lies, but liars get a free pass in that system. So we were told. It has worked for them, too.

Mos has some hard evidence to go with all the words?

So why do they need to be interrogated at all?

[Silverfox]

Been watching this closely over the past few months but actually not logging in...

But I have been thinking about the "new evidence" ...

One thing that has crossed my mind is biological...

For example, how could you determine if blood evidence might indicate the probability of death, especially if there was only small or minute samples available.

Of course dna matchups and the probable saturation of certain drugs might indicate that life is not possible at certain blood levels, right?

But what if a blood sample contained "other" tissue samples?

What if one of the blood samples had, say, brain tissue in it.  I would think that the presence of such tissue, when tied to dna might lead one to believe "something bad happened" and the probability of life would be considered remote.

just some thoughts since this discussion appears centered around speculation of what some of that "old" evidence turned new might be.

Science can be a miracle marvel, right?

[Anna]

Mos pretty restrained. What does he have that Jannsen didn't?
The will. The ability. The organization at least.

Karin had enough conflicting interrogation product to show multiple lies, but liars get a free pass in that system. So we were told. It has worked for them, too.

Mos has some hard evidence to go with all the words?

So why do they need to be interrogated at all?

Hat,
I think that is their form of "due process."  They must be given the chance to answer the accusations before they can be formally charged and taken to court.

My understanding only.
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[Anna]

It can, Silverfox.

And I think that is a very astute thought.  Yes, tissue of certain organs would be proof of death, brain being one of them and maybe liver another?  In fact many tissues would be indication of death since no hospitalization was recorded following such an injury.

MO but I concur with you on that.  Been watching too many CSI programs maybe, lol!

.

[Spock]

The use of the "Infiltration technique" has me thinking:


Doesn't that sound like someone was wearing a wire and asking questions of Joran?

[Silverfox]

It can, Silverfox.

And I think that is a very astute thought.  Yes, tissue of certain organs would be proof of death, brain being one of them and maybe liver another?  In fact many tissues would be indication of death since no hospitalization was recorded following such an injury.

MO but I concur with you on that.  Been watching too many CSI programs maybe, lol!

.

yeah, and remember those additional searches earlier this year at both the Kalpoe and Sloot homes?  It may be possible that some hard forensic evidence containing such tissue "might" have beed discovered.  Remember, small traces of blood and certain tissues would tend to "dry" rather quickly but given certain locations, such as discovery on items "indoors" might have preserved enough integrity of the tissue sample to render it having been "mummified" or well preserved.  If you were to find, say, even a minute sample of brain tissue that has been "preserved" by being "dried" then you might have enough for those lab experts to identify the dna as well as the part of the body impacted. Think, clothing that was unwashed, a corner of a room, a shoe? a murder weapon not thoroughly cleaned...etc. 

just a hmmmmm to fuel the speculation...right?

[Hat]

The use of the "Infiltration technique" has me thinking:


Doesn't that sound like someone was wearing a wire and asking questions of Joran?

It does.

[Silverfox]

The use of the "Infiltration technique" has me thinking:


Doesn't that sound like someone was wearing a wire and asking questions of Joran?

absolutely

[Sue]

clearly in my opinion this is what is wrong with there sytems
they have hours and hours of taped interrogation and they put all those
hours into a handful of pages and they wonder why this case has not advanced
I think they need to get off there asses and transcribes all tapes word for word
maybe we all wouldnt be here discussing this 2.5 years later this is just ridiculous

[Anna]

The use of the "Infiltration technique" has me thinking:


Doesn't that sound like someone was wearing a wire and asking questions of Joran?

It does.

Add to that mention of something taken from the home of Satish which could be forensics or could be tap of Deepak and Satish talking it over late at night when all alone.

I believe they have that plus someone got Joran on a wire. 

The way he has been drinking in Netherlands and given his big mouth, it is certainly possible they have the two brothers discussing it and Joran telling someone his version separately.

That would wrap it up in my mind.

It will never take Mos until Dec 31 to bring charges.  That doesn't concern me anyway.  It is his own deadline and he can extend it for it is not required by law, only what he told the Kalpoes attorney when they mistakenly thought no further investigation was ongoing.  Little did they know.

It was a sort of a ruse on his part because he did NOT tell them the investigation was very active as that might have kept them from talking.  They had the Kalpoes early and it took longer to get Joran on wire but I think they have it on all parties.

MO

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[Silverfox]

But I also keep wondering if this rumor about 'wiretaps' is more damage control.  You know, the Darkside likes to try to play the political wild card to say public opinion.  Recent weeks has seen a lot of controversy in the US concerning wiretapping for national security, including presidential debates and court challenges... Ever since this rumor started I have wondered if this story is partially a plant to attempt to (wrongly) make Americans more sympathetic to the J2K cause if, indeed, wiretaps are being used as part of the new evidence.  Personally I believe the Mos team has a lot more evidence than that but some collaborating physical evidence and witness statements to back up the info contained within the taps. 

[Anna]

ROTFLMAO!!!

The guy on Redeye just said "How could somebody named Van der Sloot NOT be guilty of something!"

That's funny considering his own name is something like Guttfield!  But he does have a funny point.

.

[Hat]

Villain name.

Mos better have something besides words.
That stuff with the cell phone calls. I guess Mos can prove the 3 were not where they claimed at different times that night.

Maybe has recorded conversation between Kalpoes. I would say he's looking to turn the K2 against Joran, but I think if they are not as guilty as he is, they would have turned a long time ago.

[Anna]

Can't believe Dr Baden was just on Redeye talking about the Natalee Holloway case.  Must be a conspiracy to keep me awake all night for of course I had to hear that!

He said a body especially wrapped could still contain evidence especially if in a body bag.  Doubts Natalee can be found if in the ocean.  Has seen bodies older than two years still with evidence.

And gave example of gunshot residue being found in a man's ear wax as an example of the original thinking of forensic scientists.  I thought that was very clever since the man had taken a shower to remove the residue from the rest of his body.  The ear wax caught him.

The point is that there are always ways to catch people when there is forensics.

Hat, I first thought it had to be more than just words but think about both parties saying they are guilty separately.  It would be hard to refute that if they had both Joran and the Kalpoes, separately saying that they are responsible.

Also Mos made if crystal clear that this is voluntary manslaughter and not involuntary and Joe T is spinning.  Forgot to say that earlier.  But why would Joe T even be saying involuntary if he is not worried about the Sporter?

Tip:  Never drink coffee to watch the late Greta!  Note to self about that.

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[Anna]

I have been reading back and I don't understand why people are worried about the Dec 31 deadline.  Mos said he has enough to bring this to trial right now.  Unless the suspects have some pretty good explanations for whatever they have, it's pretty well a done deal that it will be going to trial.

MO  and finally off to sleep.  I hope.

G'night any nightowls still reading. 

[yuknomenot]

PUT YOUR SUNGLASSES ON  

geeeesh, i know im not the best looking guy out there BUT holy moses
if someone took a picture of me and i saw that i would rip it up right away

be right back, i need to get sick 

Ummmm....eeewwwww  Hi  I've been following y'all from the beginning, but this is just wrong.  Somebody needs to address this delusional (add your favorite adjective here), murder-harboring, breeder of psychopaths for what she truly is.