Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29 - 11/30/2007

[klaasend]

Fox Transcript of JoeT and Jossy on Greta last night:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313765,00.html

Joran van der Sloot's Attorney Goes 'On the Record'
Thursday , November 29, 2007


 This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," November 28, 2007. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: The managing editor of the El Diario newspaper in Aruba, Jossy Mansur, spoke with us earlier. Jossy gives us his take on the so-called "new evidence." Is it new, or just a new angle on old information?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: What is your theory on what happened based on any corroborative of evidence?

JOSSY MANSUR, EL DIARIO: The only thing I can say, and I have said this before, is that they only facts in this case that we know (INAUDIBLE), and from that moment on, nobody ever heard anything about her anymore except for what these three suspects have been telling us.

No one else has ever come forward to say anything, that they saw her, or were with her, or whatever related to her after that incident. So that leads me to believe that the three suspects know what happened to her.

VAN SUSTEREN: Unless they left her on the beach and they went home, and she walked that half a mile to her—

MANSUR: No, we have to rule that out.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why? How can you rule it out?

MANSUR: We have to rule it out because, for one, when Joran went with the four police officers to the beach because he told them that he had an idea where Deepak buried the girl, he told them, I think that Deepak walked back to the beach where the girl was sleeping and raped and murdered her.

That is in the transcripts of the police interrogation. How can they have left her there when he is accusing Deepak of this?

VAN SUSTEREN: Unless he and Deepak turned on each other and either made up stories or told the truth. I do not know.

MANSUR: In that sense, you also have to remember what Deepak told Joran in the back of the police car coming from the prison—

VAN SUSTEREN: Which was?

MANSUR: He told him if they find the girl, you are looking at 15 years in prison. What would lead him to say that? He didn't know they were taping him.

VAN SUSTEREN: Have you seen the transcript?

MANSUR: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: So there is no doubt Deepak said that in the back of the van?

MANSUR: There is no doubt. (INAUDIBLE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Has Joran's shoes ever been found? I know there is a discussion that he had a missing shoe. What's the story on that.

MANSUR: No, we haven't heard anything more about the shoes, that they were found or not found. I do not think they were found.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is that insignificant fact in this investigation?

MANSUR: It may be significant in the sense that you would have to look very closely at to how he got home that night. He could not have walked if he left his shoes. So somebody picked him up. Who picked him up?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Joining us live in Connecticut is Joe Tacopina, lawyer for Joran Van Der Sloot. Nice to see you, Joe.

JOE TACOPINA, JORAN VAN DER SLOOT'S ATTORNEY: Hi, Greta. But, that gets my blood boiling, and I didn't get to say a word yet.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why is your blood boiling?

TACOPINA: Hearing him, someone that has been implicated in fabricating evidence in this case deciding what is credible and not credible evidence makes me laugh a little bit.

But, moreover, Greta, the two things he said are so inaccurate. First of all, that initial statement that was rumored to be out there and that actually made its way into one police report—

VAN SUSTEREN: Which statement?

TACOPINA: The statement that he is saying that Joran had any knowledge about Deepak or Satish Kalpoe doing anything to her. Absolutely not true. The cops have moved off that. They've redacted that. That is absolutely inaccurate, and that has never been said by Joran. If that were said, we wouldn't have had him released.

Number two, and most importantly, he starts citing these tapes that were in the back of the police car, and we talked about this last night for a nano second, but these are those tapes they set the boys up after three months incarceration, basically told them, the other guy pointed the finger at you—which wasn't true.

And they throw them all into a police car and recorded their conversations in hopes that they would get some bombshell evidence of a crime. What they got was clear evidence of Joran Van Der Sloot's innocence on that tape, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you have the same sense that shows innocence of Deepak and Satish on that tape that you say shows Joran's innocence on the tape.

TACOPINA: In all fairness, my focus was on Joran's statements in the context of some of the Kalpoe's statements.

I do not see anything on the tape that shows that they had anything knowledge of what happened either, quite frankly. But Joran's statements are clearly statement of lack of knowledge.

At two points he leaves open the possibility that Natalee is still alive. He repeatedly said that, and they do not know they are being recorded.

VAN SUSTEREN: You have answered Jossy. Let me ask you about the new and incriminating evidence, that is the statement of the prosecutor. And Joran's lawyer has gotten 15 pages—a mysterious 15 pages. Do you have any idea what is in them?

TACOPINA: Yes, I do.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anything new?

TACOPINA: Not for my eyes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Are there new wiretaps?

TACOPINA: There are new recordings.

VAN SUSTEREN: What do you mean by new recordings?

TACOPINA: They placed bugs in the homes of the suspects at different times. This is what I hate to do to you, but I cannot get into the specifics. What I will say is this—there are no wiretap conversations that postdate 2005. There is no evidence against Joran, and no incriminating evidence.

VAN SUSTEREN: Joe, are there new recordings of any of the three since April 2007?

TACOPINA: Again, I am going to take a pass on that, because the rules right now that are in place—I do not want to violate them. I want cooperation, and I want to be able to share our information with the authorities.

VAN SUSTEREN: Then answer it this way—do you at least know that answer?

TACOPINA: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: I am not going to ask you the incriminating question because you are a defense lawyer, and I know your answer. How is your client doing in jail?

TACOPINA: He is actually doing quite well, considering the conditions he is held under. He is a mentally tough kid. He is now 19, was 17 at the time. This has advanced him years by way of really giving him a life's lesson.

And, certainly, he has been through this before. We are actually going to court tomorrow for a hearing to reduce the restrictions. He is in a cage with no reading material. He cannot read the Bible, he can't read a book. He can't say hi to his parents, his brother can't visit him—no outside contact.

That serves absolutely no investigatory person. What that is supposed to do is try to break a boy to get him to say something that may not be true. It will not happen, here, but that is the condition he is living under.

VAN SUSTEREN: we have 10 seconds left—do you have plans to go to Aruba or not? And if you do have plans, when are you going?

TACOPINA: I'll be there next week with the whole team.

VAN SUSTEREN: How long will you be there?

TACOPINA: As long as it takes to get what we need to get done, done. How's that?

VAN SUSTEREN: We will do a phone interview when you get there. Make sure you give us your phone number.

TACOPINA: Sure, OK.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Joe, thank you.

TACOPINA: Bye, Greta.

[Magnolia]

A fish trap or a body would easily fit in the Vander Sloot Jeep.
A ripped down shower curtain would be a perfect thing to wrap a
body to keep from leaving traces.

[Lala'sMom]

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave,
while of gold bricks
the road is not paved,
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA


Joran and Natalee ended up at his place.  Deepak and Satish left them there and went to clean the car...it was a mess in the back seat...won't elaborate here...don't need to...what happened next is all a mystery, since only the perps know if she was dead already or died there.

[igsigs]

Carlo is probably still involved, but cannot be Joran's frontman anymore after the DeVries program. He can't even pretend to think Joran is innocent.

[Tamikosmom]

Why on earth would Paulus contact any of those kids when he had mature, willing friends such as Vocking and vdStratten who would have enough sense to keep their traps shut?

My list of those involved has shrunk over the last year as no one has come forward spilling the beans.  Who would want to live under this cloud for Joran?

Paulus never lost control of things and certainly I can't see him involving a gang of juvenile delinquents in something this career ending.

MO

His career was over when Natalee took her last breath.  My mind flips about Paulus' involvement.  Did he assist or participate.  Paulus is a criminal and has a criminal mind just like Joran.  Deepak said to Joran you are just like your father.

San ... I speculate that Paulus' van der Sloot was not a participant in the events of that fateful morning until Joran called him from Deepak's parked vehicle ... calling him in a panic ... Natalee was deceased.

I realize that Paulus abetted Joran in illegal underage activities but ... the thought that he was a participant along with his own son in the drugging and sexual assault of Natalee Holloway ... is too much to comprehend.  That would be just plain evil.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

Fox Transcript of JoeT and Jossy on Greta last night:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313765,00.html

Joran van der Sloot's Attorney Goes 'On the Record'
Thursday , November 29, 2007

<snipped>

Thank you Klaas.

[Magnolia]

Carlo is probably still involved, but cannot be Joran's frontman anymore after the DeVries program. He can't even pretend to think Joran is innocent.

I think the new lawyer is just a puppet.  Has anybody been able to find any
information on him?

[Nut44x4]

A fish trap or a body would easily fit in the Vander Sloot Jeep.
A ripped down shower curtain would be a perfect thing to wrap a
body to keep from leaving traces.

I thought about the jeep too, but as I stated before in an earlier post I would more suspect a more enclosed vehicle...van...Lorenzo's perhaps.

Anna...don't get mad. 90% of what we all have been doing here for the past 2.5 years is speculation. Because we don't know what really happened and how it all went down...we speculate and come up with ideas. Isn't that what we have been doing all along?

[MumInOhio]

Klaas line 123 Grande spreadsheet rafael solognier..car search

Sorry gotta run

[San]

Why on earth would Paulus contact any of those kids when he had mature, willing friends such as Vocking and vdStratten who would have enough sense to keep their traps shut?

My list of those involved has shrunk over the last year as no one has come forward spilling the beans.  Who would want to live under this cloud for Joran?

Paulus never lost control of things and certainly I can't see him involving a gang of juvenile delinquents in something this career ending.

MO

His career was over when Natalee took her last breath.  My mind flips about Paulus' involvement.  Did he assist or participate.  Paulus is a criminal and has a criminal mind just like Joran.  Deepak said to Joran you are just like your father.

San ... I speculate that Paulus' van der Sloot was not a participant in the events of that fateful morning until Joran called him from Deepak's parked vehicle ... calling him in a panic ... Natalee was deceased.

I realize that Paulus abetted Joran in illegal underage activities but ... the thought that he was a participant along with his own son in the drugging and sexual assault of Natalee Holloway ... is too much to comprehend.  That would be just plain evil.

Janet

Yes I know Janet that is just to disgusting to think about.

[kkate]

Just posted on the front page of SM:

renee wrote:

Lawyer: Dutch suspect in Holloway case frustrated over latest arrest
Print article
Refer to a friend
© AP
2007-11-29 19:59:21 -

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - A lawyer for a Dutch suspect in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway said Thursday his client is frustrated about his return to jail, where he has complained about a lack of reading material and family visitation rights.
Attorney Ariean de Bie spoke with reporters after a closed-door court session
on a motion seeking access to television and magazines for Joran van der Sloot, 20, who was re-arrested along with two other young men Nov. 21 on suspicion of involvement in Holloway’s death.
«Joran is not very happy about it,» de Bie said.
Authorities say new evidence warrants the detention of van der Sloot and the other suspects, Surinamese brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe, who were the last people known to see Holloway alive before she vanished on May 30, 2005.
But defense attorneys say they believe the three will be released soon. The lawyers say the new evidence shared with them by prosecutors is based mainly on misunderstandings of language in the suspects’ conversations.
«It is absolutely nothing,» de Bie said.
The private court session also addressed a motion from lawyers for the Kalpoe brothers _ Deepak is 24, Satish, 21 _ to have them represented by the same attorney, David Kock. Rulings on both motions are not expected before Friday.

The brothers are being held in separate jails, and Aruba’s chief prosecutor Hans Mos has said prosecutors believe they should be represented by separate attorneys to prevent a conflict of interest.
The 18-year-old from Mountain Brook, Alabama, was last seen leaving a bar with the three men hours before she was scheduled to fly home with high school classmates celebrating their graduation. Despite extensive searches, no trace has been found of Holloway.
All three suspects have denied involvement in Holloway’s disappearance and were previously released for lack of evidence.
A hearing is scheduled Friday on whether there is enough evidence to detain the Kalpoe brothers for another eight days while authorities pursue the investigation. A judge gave initial approval Monday for the detention of van der Sloot, who was arrested in the Netherlands and returned to Aruba last Friday.

I thought the hearing was today!

[San]

Carlo is probably still involved, but cannot be Joran's frontman anymore after the DeVries program. He can't even pretend to think Joran is innocent.

I think the new lawyer is just a puppet.  Has anybody been able to find any
information on him?

I agree Magnolia.  That like when Deepak's new lawyer said he wasn't allowed to speak to Satish's.  I don't believe that for one minute.

[Anna]

A fish trap or a body would easily fit in the Vander Sloot Jeep.
A ripped down shower curtain would be a perfect thing to wrap a
body to keep from leaving traces.

I thought about the jeep too, but as I stated before in an earlier post I would more suspect a more enclosed vehicle...van...Lorenzo's perhaps.

Anna...don't get mad. 90% of what we all have been doing here for the past 2.5 years is speculation. Because we don't know what really happened and how it all went down...we speculate and come up with ideas. Isn't that what we have been doing all along?

Why would you think I would get mad, Nut?  I am not one of the ones banging my head against a brick wall of what we do not know.

I know some post things to try to make me mad but it doesn't because I know what I know.   And more importantly, I know what I don't know. But I seriously can't recall seeing so many wild and totally unsubstantiated statements posted at SM especially all in a clump like this.  It's kind of wild!

Carry on by all means.  I am only really interested in anything new or the ruling for the Kalpoes.  After two years of it, I am certainly not taking offense to anybody's theories at this late date.  Just perfectly content to wait for events to develop as I guess I have long since grown weary of speculating myself.  Doesn't mean I mind others doing so.

.

[Tamikosmom]

Wow, I have never seen so much wild and unsubstantiated speculation posted here before!  No way to even begin to refute it.

I don't believe Paulus contacted anybody from the PIMPS for anything as even he is not that stupid and he had adult friends who owed him favors.

That said, I am for sure going to await Hans Mos on this as this is getting farther from anything that I know to be even close to verified.

Will leave the speculations to the rest of you and check back this evening or periodically for ruling on Kalpoes detention.
Not going to spin in circles based on pure rumor, most of which came directly from the AHATA rumor mill. 

Anna ... neither do I.

Neither GVS and Steve Croes were considered one of the "pimps".  I speculate there were specific reasons that GVS and Steve Croes were contacted by Paulus for assistance:

1.  Steve Croess - access to the Fisherman's hut.
2.  GVS - White Pickup - Beach Patrol.

I am not focusing in on these guys without a foundation to from.  I contend that there were reasons which dictated that both of these guys were deemed suspects and ... held in pretrial detention.  Witnesses are only question and released.

I suspect that Straaten and Jacobs realized that time in detention  was required for damage control ... damage control that would distance Paulus and Joran from implication in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.  Witnesses are only questioned and released.

Hey ... just speculating like everybody else.   

Janet

[klaasend]

Klaas line 123 Grande spreadsheet rafael solognier..car search

Sorry gotta run

Steve Croes uncles car right?

[klaasend]

I think Kock on one of the shows mentioned the hearing on whether K2 would be extended another 8 days would be either Thursday OR Friday.  Looks like that hearing will be tomorrow now. 

[Anna]

Has the detention ruling for the Kalpoes been moved until Friday?

[Anna]

I think Kock on one of the shows mentioned the hearing on whether K2 would be extended another 8 days would be either Thursday OR Friday.  Looks like that hearing will be tomorrow now. 

Thanks, Klaas,

Guess a whole day of work was just more than the judge was up to!

.

[Port Valerie]

I think Kock on one of the shows mentioned the hearing on whether K2 would be extended another 8 days would be either Thursday OR Friday.  Looks like that hearing will be tomorrow now. 

Thanks. I'll stop waiting.

[NYC_lover]

Ouders Holloway op weg naar Aruba
ORANJESTAD/NEW YORK -  De ouders van de vermiste Amerikaanse Natalee Holloway, Beth Twitty en Dave Holloway, komen allebei vrijdag aan op Aruba. Dat bevestigen Amerikaanse media die contact hebben met de advocaat van de vader.
  
Dave Holloway heeft aangekondigd weer in zee te gaan zoeken naar zijn dochter. Daarvoor heeft hij de hulp gekregen van een Texaanse organisatie die zich heeft gespecialiseerd in zoekacties naar vermiste personen.

Van de organisatie krijgt Holloway een speciale boot met sonarapparatuur en camera's tot zijn beschikking. Met het vaartuig kan hij tot drie kilometer diep zoeken. Tot nu toe is de zeebodem alleen tot ongeveer honderd meter gescand.

De zoekactie van de vader gaat buiten het Openbaar Ministerie op Aruba om. Justitie meldt wel nieuwsgierig te zijn naar eventuele vondsten die van belang voor het onderzoek in de Holloway-zaak.

Van Beth Twitty wordt als reden voor haar komst gemeld dat zij zich persoonlijk op de hoogte wil laten stellen van de nieuwste ontwikkelingen. Onlangs bracht zij een bliksembezoek aan het eiland om de publicatie van haar boek Loving Natalee in de schijnwerpers te zetten. Ook Dave Holloway heeft een boek geschreven dat een reconstructie van de zaak zou geven.

De afgelopen dagen wordt Joran van der Sloot wegens moord en doodslag op Natalee Holloway, verhoord door Arubaanse en Nederlandse specialisten. Wat bij hem en zijn twee medeverdachten wordt gezegd, blijft binnenskamers. De advocaat van Van der Sloot, die wel bij de verhoren aanwezig is, heeft een bezwaarschrift ingediend tegen de beperkingen die justitie aan hem heeft opgelegd. Daarover wordt later op de dag een beslissing verwacht.

„Joran wordt overigens wel goed behandeld in de gevangenis”, licht zijn raadsman Ariean de Bie toe. „Als hij zich beklaagt, beklaagt hij zich over de beperkingen die zijn ingesteld.” Van der Sloot is sinds zijn aanhouding verstoken van lectuur, bezoek en contact met medegedetineerden.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/2651564/Ouders_Holloway_op_weg_naar_Aruba.html?p=7,2