Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29 - 11/30/2007

[crazybabyborg]

Janet, you are wonderful!

Deepak washing his car 1:30

Gardner saw them parked across from the beach @ 2:30  (waiting for someone?)

Deepak at beach @ 3:00 (Don't know who else is with him)

Joran home @ 4:00

I'm just pulling threads off the top of my head here, but.........
She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. That would mean they are in disposal of the body mode.
Natalee was in the car?
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to recover anything that may have been left, or to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, she's been buried, or taken out to the ocean.

Help me guys. What am I missing?

[Lala'sMom]

Joran got home at 4:00 and Deepak went back to the beach at 3:00? I don't think this lends itself to Deepak going back to the beach to have sex with Natalee. Sounds to me Deepak went back to join Joran who may have encountered a problem.

Merian Ernest Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:48 am Post subject: Who is Simian?
The lines flow easily. Full sentences.

Everyhere you go, your dot will be on the dish. The thing is that it came back to haunt
you.

Little altars built into their rooms. Only one rested, while the other went to the aide of
foul mouthed one. Bite your tongue off now. [/i]

[San]

Deepak went back to the beach around 3:00am or after? Why would he wash his car first?

Everybody is forgetting about the gardener's observation at 2:30 AM ... the observation that places Joran, Deepak and ? across street from the beach in Deepak's parked vehicle.  Where was Natalee??

Janet

++++++++++++++

Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005

I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.

Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ..... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

Natalee could have been either in the trunk which I kind of find it hard that she might fit in the trunk due to Deepak's stero system being in the trunk or they were waiting for a second car that had her body (Paulus).

[crazybabyborg]

No, no. Deepak wouldn't wash his car and then put her back in it. Someone else picks up Natalee after she's dead, and the boy's job is to get the trap, then meet the boat where she's been taken.

[San]

Deepak went back to the beach around 3:00am or after? Why would he wash his car first?

Everybody is forgetting about the gardener's observation at 2:30 AM ... the observation that places Joran, Deepak and ? across street from the beach in Deepak's parked vehicle.  Where was Natalee??

Janet

++++++++++++++

Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005

I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.

Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ..... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

Natalee could have been either in the trunk which I kind of find it hard that she might fit in the trunk due to Deepak's stero system being in the trunk or they were waiting for a second car that had her body (Paulus).

Meant to say trunk not truck.

[Nut44x4]

MSNBC - Kosinski

Kalpoe lawyers feel *things went their way* re lawyer decision.

Kalpoe lawyers feel sure OM will ask for additional 8 days. Decision later today?

Confusing report.

 
Yes it...makes no sense. If things went their way then why would they expect OM to ask for 8 more days... "I don't understand their system" 

Also...the hearing was today and they won't decide till tomorrow?? That isn't the way it happened last go around, was it?? "I don't understand their system" 

[klaasend]

FOX - surfer dude

No mention of 8-day hearing / ruling.   ?

That's because I don't think the judge has met with K2 yet today. 

[klaasend]

Just posted on the front page of SM:

EURobert wrote:

Dutch Telegraaf reports that Natalees parents both go to Aruba, arriving probably tomorrow (friday).

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/2651564/Ouders_Holloway_op_weg_naar_Aruba.html?p=1,1

Don’t know how accurate this article is because they say Dave will come to Aruba in relation to new boatsearch. But they state that American media that are in contact with Daves lawyers say so.

[crazybabyborg]

Revised:

She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense. Neighbor said 1:30.
Someone with access to a boat has been contacted and a plan devised to get a crab trap and dump her in the ocean. The guys have agreed to meet the contact at the beach to get a crab trap so her body wouldn't wash ashore.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. A crab trap wouldn't fit in Deepak's car, would it? The contact will haul it.
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, Joran's home.

[Helen Back]

I am surprised that Kalpoe attorneys are arguing for same representation.  Seems irresponsible since each deserves an attorney who represents their best interest.  In the event that one has more involvement than another, this would be impossible. Would also be a good reason for appeal, after conviction.  Makes no sense.

It won't happen, IMO.

[BUCKSHOT]

Janet, you are wonderful!

Deepak washing his car 1:30

Gardner saw them parked across from the beach @ 2:30  (waiting for someone?)

Deepak at beach @ 3:00 (Don't know who else is with him)

Joran home @ 4:00

I'm just pulling threads off the top of my head here, but.........
She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. That would mean they are in disposal of the body mode.
Natalee was in the car?
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to recover anything that may have been left, or to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, she's been buried, or taken out to the ocean.

Help me guys. What am I missing?

papa sloot could possibly have driven joran back home to sloot residence at 4am.

questions.. (1) if deepak, joran in car at 230 am sighting. who else were they with ??
(2) who was gathering fish trap if they were in car waiting. (3) what was paulus doing from time he learned of problem to 4am? getting money ?? arranging boat ?? (4) doeas steve croes enter the picture here, or guido, or freddy? (5) if satish at home (on cpu) not involved - why is he in jail and why he is so mixed up with a crime that he did not commit ??

thoughts..............

[San]

No, no. Deepak wouldn't wash his car and then put her back in it. Someone else picks up Natalee after she's dead, and the boy's job is to get the trap, then meet the boat where she's been taken.

That fish trap would have to be put in a truck.  Who had the truck?  Paulus?  Steve Crose?

If you look at one of the pictures of Steve Croes' house there is a blue pickup truck parked there.  This truck would fit a trap and a body.

[Kimmy53]

No, no. Deepak wouldn't wash his car and then put her back in it. Someone else picks up Natalee after she's dead, and the boy's job is to get the trap, then meet the boat where she's been taken.

That fish trap would have to be put in a truck.  Who had the truck?  Paulus?  Steve Crose?

If you look at one of the pictures of Steve Croes' house there is a blue pickup truck parked there.  This truck would fit a trap and a body.

Or an ATV...could be strapped on the back

[Sue]

Joran gets his bible & the kalpoes hearing hasn't happened yet

he must be praying for his next drink and toke of weed, cant imagine
him praying for anything else

[BTgirl]

Would someone please post one of those wonderful maps of Aruba with the areas important to the case labeled?

TY

[Tamikosmom]

Deepak went back to the beach around 3:00am or after? Why would he wash his car first?

Everybody is forgetting about the gardener's observation at 2:30 AM ... the observation that places Joran, Deepak and ? across street from the beach in Deepak's parked vehicle.  Where was Natalee??

Janet

++++++++++++++

Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005

I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.

Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ..... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

Natalee could have been either in the trunk which I kind of find it hard that she might fit in the trunk due to Deepak's stero system being in the trunk or they were waiting for a second car that had her body (Paulus).

Tamikosmom's musings ... musings that include all seven detained  suspects as well as Freddy.

Janet

++++++++++++++++

OCKHAM'S RAZOR
"You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity."


1.  Freddy is waiting at the VDS' residence ... with his camera ... when Satish, Deepak and Joran arrive with a drugged Natalee after leaving Carlos 'N Charles'.

2.  Guido arrives in his own vehicle at the same time.

3.  In an attempt to escape a gang rape Natalee sustains a head injury.

4.  As the sexual assault ensues Natalee appears to pass out.

5.  The decision is made to take Natalee to the beach where she can sleep it off and ... make her own way to the HI in time to catch her flight back home.

6.  Guido leaves the picture.

7.  Joran, Deepak and Freddy ... enroute to the beach ... drop off Satish off at home.

8.  Deepak drops off Joran, Freddy and a "passed out" Natalee at the beach while he parks his vehicle a short distance away at the tennis club.

9.  However ... Freddy and Joran realize that Natalee is deceased. 

10.  Leaving a deceased Natalee on the beach ... Joran and Freddy run across the street to where Deepak is waiting in his vehicle.

11.  A panicked discussion ensues.  When it is considered that Joran, Deepak and Satish were observed leaving Carlos 'n Charlie's  ... the injury and the DNA evidence on Natalee's person could be very incriminating.

12.  Paulus is contacted.

13.  The gardener enters the picture.  He observes Joran, Deepak and Freddy in the parked vehicle.

14.  Paulus arrives and ... accesses the situation.

15.  Assistance in moving a deceased Natalee is required.  GVC and Steve Croes are contacted.

16.  Deepak, Joran and Freddy leave the scene.

+++++++++++++++++

[San]

Revised:

She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense. Neighbor said 1:30.
Someone with access to a boat has been contacted and a plan devised to get a crab trap and dump her in the ocean. The guys have agreed to meet the contact at the beach to get a crab trap so her body wouldn't wash ashore.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. A crab trap wouldn't fit in Deepak's car, would it? The contact will haul it.
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, Joran's home.

What was the time of the ATM withdrawal.

[igsigs]

Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.

[crazybabyborg]

Revised:

She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense. Neighbor said 1:30.
Someone with access to a boat has been contacted and a plan devised to get a crab trap and dump her in the ocean. The guys have agreed to meet the contact at the beach to get a crab trap so her body wouldn't wash ashore.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. A crab trap wouldn't fit in Deepak's car, would it? The contact will haul it.
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, Joran's home.

I'm with you guys, just keep pulling the threads...........
I would add that after they got the trap, there was time to go back to Joran's apartment, collect Natalee, and Joran stays home and gets on his cell or computer to begin the alibi.

[klaasend]

Would someone please post one of those wonderful maps of Aruba with the areas important to the case labeled?

TY

BTgirl - if you look in the Important Case Document area, Sunfreak has a thread for Evidence, Maps etc.  Lot's of different maps there.