Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29 - 11/30/2007

[San]

No, no. Deepak wouldn't wash his car and then put her back in it. Someone else picks up Natalee after she's dead, and the boy's job is to get the trap, then meet the boat where she's been taken.

That fish trap would have to be put in a truck.  Who had the truck?  Paulus?  Steve Crose?

If you look at one of the pictures of Steve Croes' house there is a blue pickup truck parked there.  This truck would fit a trap and a body.

Or an ATV...could be strapped on the back

Guido was the one with the ATV and the police confiscated it.

[BTgirl]

Would someone please post one of those wonderful maps of Aruba with the areas important to the case labeled?

TY

BTgirl - if you look in the Important Case Document area, Sunfreak has a thread for Evidence, Maps etc.  Lot's of different maps there.

Thank you. I'll go take a look.

[klaasend]

Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.

We already know his next hearing isn't until December 7th, so he should have plenty of time to read his bible.

[San]

Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.

We already know his next hearing isn't until December 7th, so he should have plenty of time to read his bible.

If they give the Kalpoes another 8 days tomorrow that would mean that both Joran and K2 will go to court on the same day or is the Kalpoe extension more than 8 days?

[BUCKSHOT]

Deepak went back to the beach around 3:00am or after? Why would he wash his car first?

Everybody is forgetting about the gardener's observation at 2:30 AM ... the observation that places Joran, Deepak and ? across street from the beach in Deepak's parked vehicle.  Where was Natalee??

Janet

++++++++++++++

Carlos Ramos - Gardener
Court Hearing
August 15, 2005

I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.

Beth Twitty
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
February 23, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY: ..... Deepak panicked. He panicked when the gardener gave that testimony. That very afternoon, he called an Aruban girl to help him establish an alibi. She, in turn, panicked. She called FBI. She dialed the 1-877-NATALEE number and told them that she did not want to be involved in this.

Natalee could have been either in the trunk which I kind of find it hard that she might fit in the trunk due to Deepak's stero system being in the trunk or they were waiting for a second car that had her body (Paulus).

Tamikosmom's musings ... musings that include all seven detained  suspects as well as Freddy.

Janet

++++++++++++++++

OCKHAM'S RAZOR
"You must never fail to adopt the simplest idea as your working hypothesis. If necessity demands, you can dump it later when you have more data, but only because it is no longer the simplest idea" or "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity."


1.  Freddy is waiting at the VDS' residence ... with his camera ... when Satish, Deepak and Joran arrive with a drugged Natalee after leaving Carlos 'N Charles'.

2.  Guido arrives in his own vehicle at the same time.

3.  In an attempt to escape a gang rape Natalee sustains a head injury.

4.  As the sexual assault ensues Natalee appears to pass out.

5.  The decision is made to take Natalee to the beach where she can sleep it off and ... make her own way to the HI in time to catch her flight back home.

6.  Guido leaves the picture.

7.  Joran, Deepak and Freddy ... enroute to the beach ... drop off Satish off at home.

8.  Deepak drops off Joran, Freddy and a "passed out" Natalee at the beach while he parks his vehicle a short distance away at the tennis club.

9.  However ... Freddy and Joran realize that Natalee is deceased. 

10.  Leaving a deceased Natalee on the beach ... Joran and Freddy run across the street to where Deepak is waiting in his vehicle.

11.  A panicked discussion ensues.  When it is considered that Joran, Deepak and Satish were observed leaving Carlos 'n Charlie's  ... the injury and the DNA evidence on Natalee's person could be very incriminating.

12.  Paulus is contacted.

13.  The gardener enters the picture.  He observes Joran, Deepak and Freddy in the parked vehicle.

14.  Paulus arrives and ... accesses the situation.

15.  Assistance in moving a deceased Natalee is required.  GVC and Steve Croes are contacted.

16.  Deepak, Joran and Freddy leave the scene.

+++++++++++++++++

i like the train of thought, but... where does cleaning kalpoe car come in to play??

[klaasend]

Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.

We already know his next hearing isn't until December 7th, so he should have plenty of time to read his bible.

If they give the Kalpoes another 8 days tomorrow that would mean that both Joran and K2 will go to court on the same day or is the Kalpoe extension more than 8 days?

The Kalpoe extension will be 8 days and yes, it would extend them to around Dec 7 as well.

[Kimmy53]

No, no. Deepak wouldn't wash his car and then put her back in it. Someone else picks up Natalee after she's dead, and the boy's job is to get the trap, then meet the boat where she's been taken.

That fish trap would have to be put in a truck.  Who had the truck?  Paulus?  Steve Crose?

If you look at one of the pictures of Steve Croes' house there is a blue pickup truck parked there.  This truck would fit a trap and a body.

Or an ATV...could be strapped on the back

Guido was the one with the ATV and the police confiscated it.

I knew there was something about an ATV - thanks San

[klaasend]

Greta has posted a current video of the Sloot home from when she was just in Aruba.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/

[truthseeker2]

Revised:

She's dead before Deepak scours his car, that just makes sense. Neighbor said 1:30.
Someone with access to a boat has been contacted and a plan devised to get a crab trap and dump her in the ocean. The guys have agreed to meet the contact at the beach to get a crab trap so her body wouldn't wash ashore.
They're hiding and waiting at 2:30. A crab trap wouldn't fit in Deepak's car, would it? The contact will haul it.
Whoever they are waiting for is met and they go to the beach to get a crab trap. Puts Deepak at the beach @ 3:00.
By 4:00, Joran's home.

What time was the 8 minute phone call between Joran and Deepak....?

[igsigs]

Joran is already on his second 8days - and next for him is 60 days. Kalpoes are up for their second 8 days today.

That's it, right?

[Anna]

Klaas,
Do you know if Joran got other things besides his Bible?  Like access to media to see Joe T and be encouraged by him?

I hope Mos gets to the bottom of who is leaking information to Joe T as that might as well be giving it to the MSM.

[San]

Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.

We already know his next hearing isn't until December 7th, so he should have plenty of time to read his bible.

If they give the Kalpoes another 8 days tomorrow that would mean that both Joran and K2 will go to court on the same day or is the Kalpoe extension more than 8 days?

The Kalpoe extension will be 8 days and yes, it would extend them to around Dec 7 as well.

So now they will be all on the same page.  So whatever decision is made it will be made for all.  There won't be one without the other.  If they release the Kalpoes first we would all know they would release Joran next.  So in my option they will extend the Kalpoes until next week and release them all at once.

[Anna]

Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.

We already know his next hearing isn't until December 7th, so he should have plenty of time to read his bible.

If they give the Kalpoes another 8 days tomorrow that would mean that both Joran and K2 will go to court on the same day or is the Kalpoe extension more than 8 days?

The Kalpoe extension will be 8 days and yes, it would extend them to around Dec 7 as well.

So now they will be all on the same page.  So whatever decision is made it will be made for all.  There won't be one without the other.  If they release the Kalpoes first we would all know they would release Joran next.  So in my option they will extend the Kalpoes until next week and release them all at once.

Less time for negative reactions if they are all released at the same time.

.

[Anna]

If Greta read here, why is it she only knows information favorable to Joran?  How could she have missed things like the transcript from the police van with Deepak telling Joran to forget his scholarship and he is going to get 15 years if they find "the girl"?

Instead, she only seems to know what Joe T tells her to know and everything he says is totally inaccurate.

Go figure!

.

[Getagrip]

I think it was Stom that mentioned earlier that Satish needs representation the most because he's the most involved, but I think it's the opposite. Satish is only an element in this because there's no way he'll testify against his brother.

IIRC, the friendship was between Joran and Deepak, despite the fact that Joran and Satish are closer in age. Joran used Deepak for transportation, Deepak used Joran to get girls. The accusations that were flying at the beginning were between Deepak and Joran, Satish was pretty much left out of the situation.

Sorry if this sounds obvious, but perhaps I need to verbalize it for my own sake:

- if Deepak alone, or along w/ Satish was responsible, Joran and daddy would have very handily hung them out to dry from the very beginning. No dice because one or both would provide details as to Joran's involvement

- if Joran alone was responsible, both brothers would have cooperated with investigators to clear this matter up

The above leads me to conclude that both Joran and one or both of the brothers are involved. With what we know about the friendship (stated above) and just in general, Satish's demeanor and behavior, I'm pretty convinced Deepak is the culpable Kalpoe.

Now, if the new evidence is audio obtained via bugging of the Kalpoe house, and it was enough to detain Joran for 16 days total (8+8), does this mean that the Kalpoes will be detained for an additional 8?  They're not talking, right? At this point, it may not matter if they continue to be detained or not, because the purpose of the detention is to make them talk.

The only thing that really matters is if Mos really has the goods to take this to court. OTOH, why would he have gone ahead with the detention orders and start the media circus all over again? Does he have enough for detaining them the additional 30 days, at which point they would be jailed up to the arbitrary decision date of 12/31?

As you can see, I'm confused and the more I type the more confused I get 

[San]

Greta has posted a current video of the Sloot home from when she was just in Aruba.

http://gretawire.

"When we were in Aruba we made our usual rounds ….to the homes of the suspects, the police stations(s), lawyers’ offices, courthouse etc. etc….and I shot lots of video….just to give you a bit of the behind the scenes, here is a video I shot outside Joran’s home (incidentally, I have pet that dog before…he is friendly even though he may not seem so in the video)….when I shot this video I was attempting to talk to Joran’s parents but no one was home:"

So where was Anita.  She rushed to email Greta and say I want to speak to Beth when they where there last time.  She should be rushing to Greta and giving her the BS she is feeding everyone on the internet.

How is it that every time something is happening at the Sloot home there is no one home.  Where are they staying.  They have to have a second home or they are staying with Vocking.

[klaasend]

From Greta's blog:

November 29th, 2007 1:11 PM Eastern
Another Email From OTR Producer in Aruba
by Greta Van Susteren
 OTR Producer Tim Silfies just sent me this email…..he is outside the courthouse in Aruba.

From: Silfies, Tim
To: Van Susteren, Greta; Tarrant, Angela
Sent: Thu Nov 29 12:13:26 2007
Subject: Aruba

Joran’s motion is over. Hans left without speaking. Joran’s lawyer spoke on his way to the car. Said “they have nothing…..Joran was questioned as recently as last night”. A Dutch reporter told us that in Dutch, the lawyer said that the new evidence is “based mostly on a mistranslation between Dutch and Papiamento”

DON’T FORGET: a ship is headed to Aruba from the USA with high tech research equipment.  Last night we did a segment on this new search effort…and we are monitoring the search effort.  Watch ON THE RECORD for all the latest.  The searchers seem to think that with the sophistication of this equipment, they could find very important clues.

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/



REMINDER:  Don't be fooled by defense attorneys 

[JustMeT]

DO NOT be surprised that IF either of the Kalpoes went back to the beach that night that it turns out to be Satish.

This info is mind boggling, I hope they make sense of it all.

About the so called car washing, it doesn't make sense YET but possible I suppose. It was reported at some point because when questioned about it Deepak said it got them into a lot of trouble!? What did? The statement being reported or washing the car? No answer.

There are interrogation vids out there or was. Deepak over heard one where Joran was blaming Deepak which prompted Deepak to admit the HI story was indeed a fib. This is the only confession Deepak Kalpoe made at that time.  

[San]

Seems like Joran does not expect to be released anytime soon - making all these requests to improve the conditions in his new *home*.

We already know his next hearing isn't until December 7th, so he should have plenty of time to read his bible.

If they give the Kalpoes another 8 days tomorrow that would mean that both Joran and K2 will go to court on the same day or is the Kalpoe extension more than 8 days?

The Kalpoe extension will be 8 days and yes, it would extend them to around Dec 7 as well.

So now they will be all on the same page.  So whatever decision is made it will be made for all.  There won't be one without the other.  If they release the Kalpoes first we would all know they would release Joran next.  So in my option they will extend the Kalpoes until next week and release them all at once.

Less time for negative reactions if they are all released at the same time.
.

Exactly.

[crazybabyborg]

After C&C's: Go to Joran's. Satish goes home. Maybe Deepak AND Satish go home. Freddy is at Joran's.

Natalee dies.

Joran calls Kalpoe/s setting off the car washing: 1:30 Quick plan devised to get a trap, put her in it, and dump her in the ocean.

Contact is made to someone who can haul the trap and take her out to sea.

Kalpoe/s pick Joran up to get the trap. Too risky to have the body with them. They are seen waiting for the contact @ 2:30.

They break into the hut and get the trap. Deepak is at the beach at 3:00. They load the trap into the contact's truck/SUV. Either Joran goes back home with the contact and Kalpoes go home, or rides back home with Kalpoes and then Kalpoes go home. They start establishing their alibis as soon as they are home.

Body is collected at Joran's, and taken by contact to a boat where she is dumped at sea.

Joran is home @ 4:00 establishing an alibi.

Freddy knows it all.