Natalee Case Discussion #697 11/29 - 11/30/2007

[San]

That's exactly why I think the shoes are important.  Joran made way too big a deal out of the shoes on Greta.  Either those were exactly the shoes he was wearing or he wanted us to believe it. 

I agree, the whole shoe thing may have been a ruse to pin it on the Kalpoes.  That's why the shoes ARE important.

I am reading Beth's book for the 2nd time. When she was being read joran's statements by her lawyer....the ones where she had no idea what the questions were that were being asked, only joran's answers, he says in his 7:30pm statement on June 10th:
"...My father told us that our e-mails would be read and our cell phones would be bugged. He told us to get our stories straight and then send e-mails. We should use the hard drive to nail an alibi. First, all three of us have to agree on the story and stick to it. If we keep calm and all our stories match, they will let us go in 10 days. My father said to me, "I hope she is alive. But not a big chance for that."

Could it be, that j2k called paulus when they could not get an unconscious Natalee to wake up. Paulus sent the boys home to "nail and alibi", stops at the atm and calls someone to take care of Natalee's body. At the time paulus turns Natalee over to the unknown person, she is unconscious, but alive. If joe t really did give joran a lie detector, it would be the reason he would pass it, he really was not involved in Natalee's body being dissappeared, and the k2 brothers either. The boys go home and wait and e-mail and each other while paulus takes care of hiding Natalee. It is also the reason why in the police car, they can say they don't know if she is alive...they don't KNOW as in have witnessed it, but they KNOW she isn't. Deepak then states, your own father, unbelieveable...because it is paulus and the unknown, or possibly just paulus alone, who knows where Natalee has been placed. The next day, Paulus goes to check on Natalee. Whether she has made it through the night or not, gosh I hate saying this, he can't have Natalee alive at this point. She is then moved to her final resting place.
The shoes could either be a ruse, or left by the unknown, if paulus did not hide Natalee by himself...and they need to be answered for.

Why would Paulus have to instruct them all on their alibi. Why would they have to keep calm.  If he was innocent he would not need an alibi.  He is trying to say that Natalee was alive when he was with her last.  He makes himself look even more guilty by saying what he said.  I bet Paulus was doing back flips when he read this part.

I believe the only one who didn't realize she wasn't alive was Satish Kalpoe at the time.  I do believe she could have been alive at some point and Paulus took over.  By the time of the police car conversation they knew the whole deal.  Deepak comment if they find the girl they will see that shit and you will get 15 years.  15 years is some sort of murder charge.  They also knew they were being recorded and were careful with how they said certain things.  In fact in the police car conversation the Kalpoes did a much better job than Joran.  The Kalpoes implicated Paulus even more and that is why Joran said he should have killed Deepak.  For once the little guy Deepak got Joran the big tough guys goat and he didn't like it.  I agree that Paulus might have said we can't have her alive because she would just ruin all of them and that would explain the premeditated murder charge against him.

I will guarantee that Joe T. never gave Joran a lie detector test.  If he did he would have asked him questions like is the sky blue 

[Dihannah1]

Good morning Monkeys, a little tidbit from Fox and Friends this morning. They had Kimberly Guilfoyle on and she said she will be having something from Aruba during her show this weekend.  She has some exclusive news is what she said..... ????   Wonder what that is....

[San]

Leslie, I fixed your quote on the previous page.

[snoopy]

Good Morning Everybody!!

Interesting things happen on Friday. 

I wonder what the day will bring.

Justice for Natalee.

[Leslie]

San:  Thanks, it was a little confusing! 

From 24ora:

Abogado di Kalpoe a entama caso contra OM  
Corte  
Friday, 30 November 2007  

Diahuebs a tuma lugar un caso hudicial, cu mas bien a ser entama pa bufete di David Kock & Wix, p’e hecho cu Ministerio Publico, despues di practicamente 2 aña y mei, nan no por defende un di e rumannan Kalpoe. Ministerio Publico for di siman pasa caba a duna di conoce, cu defensa di rumannan Kalpoe no por wordo atendi pa un solo abogado y pesei ayera a apela e decision aki di Ministerio Publico.
--
Stats for one of Joran's gambling names:    
  
Username = ANGRYSHARK68
Games Played = 32
Av. Profit = -$12
Av. Stake Av. = $30
Av. ROI = -45%
Total Profit = -$388 (minus $388)
Form = Super Tilt
Network = PokerStars
 
http://www.sharkscope.com/index.html?username=ANGRYSHARK68&network=pokerstars

[Dayhiker]

question: does the fact that paulus be longer deemed a suspect in the case through a previous ruling interfere with MOS trying to initiate charges against him at this stage. i do not know the answer to this question. would MOS have to have the ruling overturned / reversed before initiating charges against paulus or could new evidence simply allow for this to happen?[/color]

Buckshot, if they have new evidence they can come up with different charges (they have a several grocery bags full of them) and haul him back in. If they want him bad enough, they'll get him. The tide turned in that appeals case, he is no longer the Dutch judges' golden boy.

[blah]

WTF???

[Lala'sMom]

Okay, I should not post after a trip to the bar (COWBOY victory by the way).
WE are all on the right side here. If you have faith in a higher power -- have faith that we will see justice and truth.

I have faith and I'm feeling confident!

Why am I the only one here that feels worried about all this?  I am so afraid that they won't find her and I don't think Mos has the goods and it's all a trick to get someone to slip up and talk. Gosh!  I don't know how this family has been able to ride this roller coaster so many times.

Sorry, morning monkeys!

[Leslie]

Dear San,
Please fix my previous post and delete everything after the link.  I DID delete it before posting (I think).  Anyway, all I was trying to show was that Joran might be an angry (card)  shark because he is such a lousy gambler.
Thank you,

[blah]

Okay, I should not post after a trip to the bar (COWBOY victory by the way).
WE are all on the right side here. If you have faith in a higher power -- have faith that we will see justice and truth.

I have faith and I'm feeling confident!

Why am I the only one here that feels worried about all this?  I am so afraid that they won't find her and I don't think Mos has the goods and it's all a trick to get someone to slip up and talk. Gosh!  I don't know how this family has been able to ride this roller coaster so many times.

Sorry, morning monkeys!

your not the only one who is worried.  If the judge lets the K's out today, this thing is pretty much over unless TES can find the body

[Dayhiker]

Lawyers are competitive and have large egos, it's part of being successful. Few lawyers, ever, get an audience like this. Janssen hid, couldn't emotionally or professionally handle it.

Mos has an opportunity few get but often dream about. It's the bottom of the ninth, seventh game of the world series.

Janet is praying for a miracle and I'm praying for her praying. But Mos is not sunbathing during the day, he's pale and has been working.

This is the shot we've wanted and WE MUST be positive, we have no choice.

We have a ship of the highest caliber focused and a prosecutor focused so here it is.

Frank, I agree with you here and maintain a positive outlook. I just don't believe the Dutch would be stupid enough to open this thing up on the public stage again if they didn't know they had them. I think they want to change the corrupt perception of what the abuse of the Aruban government and judiciary have made them look like too. Until they prove us wrong, I'll give them a shot.

[Buckeye]

IIRC

The original posting of the Aruban Legal info was a pdf from the lawfirm of Gomez and Bikker in June 2005.


MEMORANDUM
FROM Gomez & Bikker
law offices
Lincoln D. Gomez
Lincoln@gobiklaw.com
DATE June 16h, 2005
SUBJECT Aspects of Aruba Criminal law & criminal
law proceedings

[Puzzler]

ldstlou - that would also explain why no one has cracked about the location of the body...they may not know. Paulus may not even know if he called someone to "take care of it" That way, they could all pass lie detector tests regarding whether she is alive, and whether or not they know where the body is.....    interesting.

I agree, but I still tend to think paulus was in on hiding Natalee.  The creep was on top of everything from moment one....already thinking of alibis and interogations! He has a criminal mind!! He would have wanted as few people involved as possible, and he would have wanted complete control. He would have had to have known for himself that Natalee was some place where she would never be found to implicate his boy!!

I believe that Paulus was INSTRUMENTAL in hiding Natalee.  J2K were too nervous, too young, too uneducated to carry off something a major as this and to have been undiscovered so long.   This took PLANNING, by a person EDUCATED IN THE LAW to know all the bases that had to be covered.  We get impressions throughout that Paulus coached and directed these three on what to do and say.  Paulus is in this very deep.
Mos knows it.  We heard Mos say that the father is involved one way or another.  To me, that means that Paulus is involved...period.

[Stella]

Okay, I should not post after a trip to the bar (COWBOY victory by the way).
WE are all on the right side here. If you have faith in a higher power -- have faith that we will see justice and truth.

I have faith and I'm feeling confident!

Why am I the only one here that feels worried about all this?  I am so afraid that they won't find her and I don't think Mos has the goods and it's all a trick to get someone to slip up and talk. Gosh!  I don't know how this family has been able to ride this roller coaster so many times.

Sorry, morning monkeys!

Good morning!  You're not the only one who's worried, LaLa. I feel the same way.  If the decision today is to let the 2K go, I'll be convinced it's the same old same old and the whole thing is another show and they're just going to do the same coverup as two years ago.

If they keep them, my optimism will firm up a little bit....  Today's an important day IMO.

[Dayhiker]

I have faith and I'm feeling confident!

Why am I the only one here that feels worried about all this?  I am so afraid that they won't find her and I don't think Mos has the goods and it's all a trick to get someone to slip up and talk. Gosh!  I don't know how this family has been able to ride this roller coaster so many times.

Sorry, morning monkeys!

It's easy to feel that way Lalas after watching the screwing the case took the first two years. They'd make promises and break promises with such ease it did nothing but kill their credibility. This is a different bunch, they are not from Aruba and could give a ratsass about the Sloots. I dare say they don't care for the mafia either.

[robots]

Okay, I should not post after a trip to the bar (COWBOY victory by the way).
WE are all on the right side here. If you have faith in a higher power -- have faith that we will see justice and truth.

I have faith and I'm feeling confident!

Why am I the only one here that feels worried about all this?  I am so afraid that they won't find her and I don't think Mos has the goods and it's all a trick to get someone to slip up and talk. Gosh!  I don't know how this family has been able to ride this roller coaster so many times.

Sorry, morning monkeys!

cause you are a skeeeeeeeeeeerdy cat    hehehehheh

no, you are just being cautious because this case has stunk from the get go

Mos is the Boss

have no fear 

[robots]

ldstlou - that would also explain why no one has cracked about the location of the body...they may not know. Paulus may not even know if he called someone to "take care of it" That way, they could all pass lie detector tests regarding whether she is alive, and whether or not they know where the body is.....    interesting.

I agree, but I still tend to think paulus was in on hiding Natalee.  The creep was on top of everything from moment one....already thinking of alibis and interogations! He has a criminal mind!! He would have wanted as few people involved as possible, and he would have wanted complete control. He would have had to have known for himself that Natalee was some place where she would never be found to implicate his boy!!

I believe that Paulus was INSTRUMENTAL in hiding Natalee.  J2K were too nervous, too young, too uneducated to carry off something a major as this and to have been undiscovered so long.   This took PLANNING, by a person EDUCATED IN THE LAW to know all the bases that had to be covered.  We get impressions throughout that Paulus coached and directed these three on what to do and say.  Paulus is in this very deep.
Mos knows it.  We heard Mos say that the father is involved one way or another.  To me, that means that Paulus is involved...period.

yep
me too 

[Lala'sMom]

ldstlou - that would also explain why no one has cracked about the location of the body...they may not know. Paulus may not even know if he called someone to "take care of it" That way, they could all pass lie detector tests regarding whether she is alive, and whether or not they know where the body is.....    interesting.

I agree, but I still tend to think paulus was in on hiding Natalee.  The creep was on top of everything from moment one....already thinking of alibis and interogations! He has a criminal mind!! He would have wanted as few people involved as possible, and he would have wanted complete control. He would have had to have known for himself that Natalee was some place where she would never be found to implicate his boy!!

I believe that Paulus was INSTRUMENTAL in hiding Natalee.  J2K were too nervous, too young, too uneducated to carry off something a major as this and to have been undiscovered so long.   This took PLANNING, by a person EDUCATED IN THE LAW to know all the bases that had to be covered.  We get impressions throughout that Paulus coached and directed these three on what to do and say.  Paulus is in this very deep.
Mos knows it.  We heard Mos say that the father is involved one way or another.  To me, that means that Paulus is involved...period.

That is not my point..we all KNOW that Paulus is guilty of helping get rid of Natalee...we all KNOW that she was assaulted by, at the least, Joran and most likley all of the perps....we all KNOW more than the majority of every other human being on the face of the earth what happened to Natalee besides those that did this to her...just KNOWING does not make it happen.  I think if there was really good evidence out there those defense attorneys would be quiet as church mice...KNOWING that their clients are screwed to hell. They would be running down the back channels in order to make a deal with the prosecution. Instead we have Joe T. going nuts all the time...he knows what his limits are and he walks that fine line, but he doesn't cross it...the Kalpoe attorneys just saying things like it's nothing, there is nothing new...it's all old stuff.  Now, we hear the problem could be in the interpretation...heck we have even had that same problem on here trying to decide what someone meant as opposed to what they actually said after translations. The longer this continues, the more antsy I become and the less likely for a good resolution.  Mos doesn't want it to end this way...it just will, because the perfect crime may just have been committed with the aid of ALE and the inept Dutch.  I so want to be wrong...I would love nothing better than to say you guys are right and Robots really, really was right all along. Sorry, to be the lone voice crying in the wilderness today...I will slink back to the corner and be quiet.

[robots]

ldstlou - that would also explain why no one has cracked about the location of the body...they may not know. Paulus may not even know if he called someone to "take care of it" That way, they could all pass lie detector tests regarding whether she is alive, and whether or not they know where the body is.....    interesting.

I agree, but I still tend to think paulus was in on hiding Natalee.  The creep was on top of everything from moment one....already thinking of alibis and interogations! He has a criminal mind!! He would have wanted as few people involved as possible, and he would have wanted complete control. He would have had to have known for himself that Natalee was some place where she would never be found to implicate his boy!!

I believe that Paulus was INSTRUMENTAL in hiding Natalee.  J2K were too nervous, too young, too uneducated to carry off something a major as this and to have been undiscovered so long.   This took PLANNING, by a person EDUCATED IN THE LAW to know all the bases that had to be covered.  We get impressions throughout that Paulus coached and directed these three on what to do and say.  Paulus is in this very deep.
Mos knows it.  We heard Mos say that the father is involved one way or another.  To me, that means that Paulus is involved...period.

That is not my point..we all KNOW that Paulus is guilty of helping get rid of Natalee...we all KNOW that she was assaulted by, at the least, Joran and most likley all of the perps....we all KNOW more than the majority of every other human being on the face of the earth what happened to Natalee besides those that did this to her...just KNOWING does not make it happen.  I think if there was really good evidence out there those defense attorneys would be quiet as church mice...KNOWING that their clients are screwed to hell. They would be running down the back channels in order to make a deal with the prosecution. Instead we have Joe T. going nuts all the time...he knows what his limits are and he walks that fine line, but he doesn't cross it...the Kalpoe attorneys just saying things like it's nothing, there is nothing new...it's all old stuff.  Now, we hear the problem could be in the interpretation...heck we have even had that same problem on here trying to decide what someone meant as opposed to what they actually said after translations. The longer this continues, the more antsy I become and the less likely for a good resolution.  Mos doesn't want it to end this way...it just will, because the perfect crime may just have been committed with the aid of ALE and the inept Dutch.  I so want to be wrong...I would love nothing better than to say you guys are right and Robots really, really was right all along. Sorry, to be the lone voice crying in the wilderness today...I will slink back to the corner and be quiet.

no need to slink 
your opinions and thoughts are reasonable because of the BULLCRAP put on by the ALE
and others

Mos is the Boss

he has paulus in the cross hairs

the hammer is cocked

he is about to pull the trigger

 

[Dayhiker]

Good morning!  You're not the only one who's worried, LaLa. I feel the same way.  If the decision today is to let the 2K go, I'll be convinced it's the same old same old and the whole thing is another show and they're just going to do the same coverup as two years ago.

If they keep them, my optimism will firm up a little bit....  Today's an important day IMO.

If the judge lets the Kalpoes go free today it will be a huge warning sign that this is all bluster, unless the brothers have flipped on the Sloots. This decision should tell us something.

BTW, the defense lawyers are pissed about a lot of the testimony being old. What they are'nt telling you is that it is really is  convicting testimony, they just never had to face it in court before.