Natalee Case Discussion #698 11/30/2007

[Katysmom]

OT!
 
EVEL KNIEVEL HAD DIED

[Tamikosmom]

Janet,

Respectfully, you are already on the roller coaster with us. Your work will not be in vain.

Being right will not ease the pain, so I say, let go and bring the positive energy, we've gotten off the canvas before and we will again if we have to.

A bible to Joran is what a cross is to vampires. He will burn, one way or another, the van der sloots will burn.

Frank ... I concede ... your incite was right on ... I was unkowningly ... once again ... on the Aruban roller coaster with all the Monkey.

If the news is accurate and ... the Kalpoes have been released ... I suspect that all the happenings of the past week were a collaborated last hurrah by Aruba prior to closing the Natalee Holloway case and ... the prosecutor had zilch or ... the judges ... Paulus' friends and associates ... are disregarding the evidence.

Either way ... my heart breaks for Natalee's family and ... I am sooo angry.

If the  Dutch and Aruban administrations were serious in regards to their desire that justice for Natalee Holloway prevails ... an outside investigative agency ... one whose members have no personal or professional relationship with Paulus van der Sloot would be requested.  I cannot comprehend how the Dutch and Arubans are allowed to investigate ... prosecute and ... judge their own.  What is the definition of "conflict of interest" under Dutch law?

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++

Jossy Mansur
NANCY GRACE
October 4, 2005

GRACE:  Jossy, regarding the connection, what I perceived to be a close connection between the judge, Paulus Van Der Sloot and the retired chief of police who initially handled Natalee`s case, Van Der Stratten, were they friends?

MANSUR: Of course, they were friends. It stands to reason they were friends because Paul Van Der Sloot had many friends within the police department; he had many friends within the Department of Justice. And he had many friends with -- and he was friendly with all the judges in Aruba. He worked out of the same office as they did and did the same work.

[truthseeker2]

Greta did not know if Dave was oon the same flight with Beth.  I wonder what time they are supposed to meet with Mos?

I have believed in Mos from the beginning......but my trust is now shaking....A LOT!  Was the a carefully orchestrated release.with Dave and Beth arriving?? ..I know Mos didn't do the releasing....did he not present enough to hold them? Does he has more? ..who was the frigging judge??  Why in the hell didn't they bring a new judge or three in from Holland to handle these proceeding??

All very good questions.  I don't if this was a 'blunder' by Mos or if the evidence was not strong or if the judge is an idiot.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Angie, do you know what time the press conference is supposed to be?  I'm gonna be heading out of town soon.

 Casa.. 4:30? 5:30? Not sure.. but CUZ asked me to call back if i hear more since shes stuck at work.   

[snoopy]

and can they still try them for anything since they've been released, or does that mean they won't be tried because there isn't enough evidence?

I think it means that MOS just didn't present enough evidence.  They can still be brought to trial with more evidence.  Geez who the heck knows.

[igsigs]

and can they still try them for anything since they've been released, or does that mean they won't be tried because there isn't enough evidence?

We should know more after Hans speaks - but i think that they can still be charged.

[mishy]

From Greta's blog:

November 30th, 2007 4:12 PM Eastern

How Would You Like THIS ?? My Timing On The Call Was Lousy
by Greta Van Susteren

When news broke that the Kalpoes would be or are released from jail in Aruba I immediately hit the phones. I was told by a good source in Aruba that it is indeed true.

I then called Beth Holloway….she answered her phone….I could hear noise in the background….I said, “where are you?” She said, “we just landed in Aruba…I just turned on my cell phone ….we are on the taxi way headed to the terminal….”

I then had the horrible job of explaining my call. Her voice dropped. She is very disappointed. We talked briefly and she was unsure whether she would just turn around and return to the USA or spend the night. As I noted, she is very disappointed. She was in Aruba in hopes of getting answers about her daughter…remember, that so called “new incriminating evidence.”

She said her plane was turning around in an hour and going back to the USA and that she might just see if she could buy a ticket and re-board.. She was in Aruba to speak to the new Chief Prosecutor but now the trip seemed to lack any purporse. I told her I would call her in an hour. She said ok.

This just breaks my heart. I am praying for Beth right now...

[Helen Back]

From Greta's blog:

November 30th, 2007 4:12 PM Eastern

How Would You Like THIS ?? My Timing On The Call Was Lousy
by Greta Van Susteren

When news broke that the Kalpoes would be or are released from jail in Aruba I immediately hit the phones. I was told by a good source in Aruba that it is indeed true.

I then called Beth Holloway….she answered her phone….I could hear noise in the background….I said, “where are you?” She said, “we just landed in Aruba…I just turned on my cell phone ….we are on the taxi way headed to the terminal….”

I then had the horrible job of explaining my call. Her voice dropped. She is very disappointed. We talked briefly and she was unsure whether she would just turn around and return to the USA or spend the night. As I noted, she is very disappointed. She was in Aruba in hopes of getting answers about her daughter…remember, that so called “new incriminating evidence.”

She said her plane was turning around in an hour and going back to the USA and that she might just see if she could buy a ticket and re-board.. She was in Aruba to speak to the new Chief Prosecutor but now the trip seemed to lack any purporse. I told her I would call her in an hour. She said ok.

All of this sad news for Beth and thoughts of changing her travel plans and meeting with Mos, based on her good source, Julia Renfro.

[casa]

Angie, do you know what time the press conference is supposed to be?  I'm gonna be heading out of town soon.

 Casa.. 4:30? 5:30? Not sure.. but CUZ asked me to call back if i hear more since shes stuck at work.   

Glad that you are keeping in touch with her!  I am headed out of town for the week end.  I will be away from a tv or computer until about 5:30 or 6.  If you hear anything that I should know give me a call on my cell.  I'm gonna go by and check on the Cuz before I leave town in about 45 minutes. Thanks Angie! 

Everyone keep the faith and continue to hope!  As long as Joran is still being held I'm going to try to be confident!

[klaasend]

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/11/30/

A badly informed lawyer


By: Jossy M. Mansur

Once again this man, who thinks himself a star lawyer, has given various televised interviews in which he unfortunately proves that he has no control over his emotions, and uttered one nonsense after the other in angry tone he could not camouflage! What is he looking for really? Popularity? This certainly is not the way to achieve his goal!

I have an immense regard for Greta, but I can't understand why she gives this man the last word and doesn't let us confront him. Neither does she with the facts of the case, which Greta is fully aware of, I'm sure. Maybe in the US, there might be some people that are afraid of his tongue and temper, but with me, he is climbing the wrong tree!

How does a lawyer who pretends to have any class, say that what I've quoted from Joran's deposition isn't true? I again publish this document in the original Dutch, with a translation in English. This should put duct tape on Tacopina's mouth.

In the referred document, Joran said to four Aruban police officers that he thinks he might know where Natalee's body is buried, and that he thinks that Deepak went back to the beach where the girl was lying on the sand, raped and killed Natalee, and afterward buried her close to the first fishermen's hut! And he also wants to ignore a taped conversation in a police car, where the three suspects (Joran, Deepak and Satish were sitting in the back seat), trying to make his client, Joran, come out "innocent" in his confrontation with Deepak. Does this lawyer know how to read? Or is he simply dumb? Deepak said directly to Joran (and the police have this tape!): "if they find the girl, you are looking at 15 years in prison! What did he mean by that? That Joran is "innocent" or "guilty" of something that will send him behind bars for so many years? Can this big-mouthed lawyer understand this? Or does he only want to impose his street style here too? Attacking my evidence based on real facts won't help his client, and if he doesn't stop painting Joran like an angel, I'll find myself forced to publish everything we have found out about him since he was 8 years old! He is certainly no "angel", believe me!

Let Tacopina understand once and for all that I have 33 years of journalism in Aruba behind me, and that if the American media ask for my comments, it is because they are aware that I know more than Tacopina thinks! Could he possibly be trying to break my credibility with the American People, by his clownish acts on TV? I've always spoken the truth to them! I have nothing to hide from anyone. My relationship with David Kock and Ronny Wix, the defense lawyers for the Kalpoe brothers is excellent! They have the professional ethics that Tacopina lacks and a good sense in the practice of law, of that I'm sure!

In my opinion, Paulus committed a critical error when he hired Tacopina to defend Joran, because he doesn't know our environment, he is not up-to-date directly on what happened to Natalee, and all his "knowledge" seems to come from what he has read about the case. I'm sure he doesn't have half of the documents that DIARIO has. Furthermore, we have additional documents that no other media can even dream of having, and that's because we are serious journalists that respect authorities and cooperate with them when asked to do so.

I've said on Greta's show that the three suspects know very well what happened to Natalee, because they were the last ones that were with her on the night of her disappearance. Forget about the tales that from Carlos and Charlies they left her at the Holiday Inn or at the beach close to the Marriott! The story about going behind the Lighthouse to see sharks also leaves lots of doubts. There are contradicting testimonies from Joran, Deepak and Satish! Joran said that they went to his apartment from Carlos and Charlies; the Kalpoe brothers have completely denied that statement. They have declared to the police that they didn't go to that apartment! Which party is telling the truth? And Joran declared that Deepak picked him up at the beach, but Deepak denied that allegation. And then Joran said it was Satish that picked him up! But Satish also denied that he picked him up! The big question Tacopina has to answer is: How did Joran get back home that night? Did he walk? Did Paulus pick him up? Or was there someone else?

And can Tacopina explain to us how his client did the miracle of letting his shoes grow from size 11 to size 14 in one night?

These are some of the discrepancies that authorities have been investigating again, because they don't make any sense! For instance, what was the real relationship between Joran and Koen? Why did he leave the island one or two days after Natalee disappeared? Why, when Art Wood and Dave, Natalee's father, asked authorities to interrogate him, it wasn't done? Why hasn't he been interrogated so far? My reliable sources tell me that Koen knows exactly what happened that night!

If Tacopina thinks that we're not aware of ALL the details of this case, he is badly mistaken! The truth is that we honor our word and will not reveal what we know from our police and judicial sources when asked not to do so! What is said to us in trust will never be betrayed, because then we would be betraying our principles!

I hope this case goes to Court as soon as possible, and if Joran, Deepak and Satish are innocent, they will be cleared by the judge. And if one or more are guilty, this also will be determined by the evidence presented to the presiding Judge. My advice to Tacopina? Stay in the US! Your presence in Aruba will only cause more harm to Joran! Believe me!

[Frank]

Beth must meet with the prosecutor regardless!

She must look him in the eyes!!!

Please anyone who can contact her, Red, she must confront Mos!

[Angiex911dsptchr]

As far as Dave goes, we're aren't confirming that he is on his way are we? I can't find where he said he is going to Aruba?

 HI Frank  .. this was posted earlier....


Beth & Dave to Meet on Saturday w/ Chief Prosecutor

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- The chief prosecutor in the Natalee Holloway investigation has agreed to meet Saturday with the parents of the missing Alabama teen, who is presumed dead.


Natalee Holloway disappeared while on vacation in Aruba with classmates in 2005.

"I'm really anxious to meet him," Beth Holloway told CNN. "I've waited a long time for this meeting."

A lawyer for Beth Holloway contacted prosecutor Hans Mos last week after suspects Joran van der Sloot and brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe were arrested on suspicion of manslaughter.

"There's no doubt in my mind that [Natalee Holloway] is dead. ... I think we have enough evidence to prove the girl is not alive anymore, even without a body," Mos said last week.

Natalee Holloway's mother said she has hope that Mos will be able to solve the case.

"He seems great. The case seems to be handled well. I'm going to ask him some long-awaited questions," she said.

The family is encouraged that the meeting will take place, Holloway attorney John Kelly told CNN. Two years ago, the previous chief prosecutor -- who has since returned to the Netherlands -- would not sit down with them.

Kelly said Beth Holloway and her ex-husband, Dave, want to share information they've gathered since their daughter disappeared in May 2005 while on vacation with about 100 classmates. See a timeline of the case »

Neither he nor Beth Holloway would provide details.

Questions about evidence

Lawyers for the three suspects were in court in Aruba on Thursday on behalf of their clients. They argued that last week's rearrests were baseless and that prosecutors have no new evidence against their clients. They said they have no idea what happened to Holloway.

As he rushed out of the closed hearing before a judge, van der Sloot's lawyer told CNN that authorities have no reason to hold van der Sloot in jail again as they did two years ago. He said the so-called new incriminating evidence is worthless.

"To say it's less than nothing is too much. But it's not very much. It's very, very thin," Ariean de Bie said.

Van der Sloot's parents were allowed to provide him with a Bible but no other reading materials, the lawyer said. Van der Sloot is forbidden from seeing any visitors and can meet only with his lawyers and interrogators.

De Bie said van der Sloot has not provided authorities with any new information since his rearrest and extradition from the Netherlands, where he'd been attending college. He said his client would rather be anywhere than in a prison cell.

"He's not very happy about it," the attorney said.

Van der Sloot's co-counsel -- New York attorney Joe Tacopina -- said he has no doubt his client is innocent.

"Whatever they're holding in their bag, whatever they don't want to show anyone ... it's not going to amount to a hill of beans against Joran van der Sloot because he had no involvement in Natalee's disappearance," Tacopina told CNN.

Tacopina said he'll be in Aruba next week and try to meet with van der Sloot in his jail cell.

Attorneys for the Kalpoe brothers will meet with a judge in separate jailhouse hearings Friday to argue that their clients should be set free and not held another eight days.

A judge will decide whether prosecutors can continue to hold the Kalpoes even longer.

Van der Sloot will have a similar hearing next Friday when prosecutors are expected to ask to keep him jailed another 60 days.

Mos has said he hopes to decide by the end of the year whether he will try all three suspects for Holloway's presumed death, which he suggests was an accident. The prosecutor won't say what his new evidence is until his investigation is complete.

New search for remains

The Holloways still have not given up the search for their daughter. In fact, a benefactor is donating an estimated $500,000 to help map the waters offshore.

On Thursday, Natalee's father watched Louis Schaeffer's crew load a boat equipped with the latest sonar equipment and a remote operated vehicle (ROV) to search the waters where Holloway's remains might be.

"I've got a feeling that if she's in the ocean, these guys are gonna find her," Dave Holloway said. "No doubt about it." Watch an interview with Natalee Holloway's father »

Schaeffer said he's retired, has the money, and was touched by the Holloways' tragedy and wanted to help.

"My only objective is to find Natalee, to bring her home for Dave and Beth and also to help identify the people that did this to her. This is a terrible thing, an injustice, and I want to help solve the case," said Schaeffer.

"We've known since [May 2005], the FBI told us Natalee's not with us anymore," Dave Holloway said.

The boat is expected to take about 10 days to get to Aruba. It'll take a few more days to set up a search.

The family says it has no new information about where to look. The Holloways just want to exhaust every area they can offshore with equipment that wasn't available to them two years ago.


Thanks to Schaefer, that's changed.

"We are just so thankful that he's got a big heart and willing to do that," Dave Holloway said. E-mail to a friend

CNN's Tracy Sabo contributed to this report.

[San]

From Greta's blog:

November 30th, 2007 4:12 PM Eastern

How Would You Like THIS ?? My Timing On The Call Was Lousy
by Greta Van Susteren

When news broke that the Kalpoes would be or are released from jail in Aruba I immediately hit the phones. I was told by a good source in Aruba that it is indeed true.

I then called Beth Holloway….she answered her phone….I could hear noise in the background….I said, “where are you?” She said, “we just landed in Aruba…I just turned on my cell phone ….we are on the taxi way headed to the terminal….”

I then had the horrible job of explaining my call. Her voice dropped. She is very disappointed. We talked briefly and she was unsure whether she would just turn around and return to the USA or spend the night. As I noted, she is very disappointed. She was in Aruba in hopes of getting answers about her daughter…remember, that so called “new incriminating evidence.”

She said her plane was turning around in an hour and going back to the USA and that she might just see if she could buy a ticket and re-board.. She was in Aruba to speak to the new Chief Prosecutor but now the trip seemed to lack any purporse. I told her I would call her in an hour. She said ok.

Beth needs to get the hell out of Aruba and fast.

[carpe noctem]

UNBELIEVABLE.
  


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxXZSa1rYC8

[Buckeye]

CNN originally said Mos conference at 4:30 Eastern time.........don't know if they took aruba island time into consideration.........

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Angie, do you know what time the press conference is supposed to be?  I'm gonna be heading out of town soon.

 Casa.. 4:30? 5:30? Not sure.. but CUZ asked me to call back if i hear more since shes stuck at work.   

Glad that you are keeping in touch with her!  I am headed out of town for the week end.  I will be away from a tv or computer until about 5:30 or 6.  If you hear anything that I should know give me a call on my cell.  I'm gonna go by and check on the Cuz before I leave town in about 45 minutes. Thanks Angie! 

Everyone keep the faith and continue to hope!  As long as Joran is still being held I'm going to try to be confident!

  Will do Casa 

[mishy]

Angie, do you know what time the press conference is supposed to be?  I'm gonna be heading out of town soon.

 Casa.. 4:30? 5:30? Not sure.. but CUZ asked me to call back if i hear more since shes stuck at work.   

Glad that you are keeping in touch with her!  I am headed out of town for the week end.  I will be away from a tv or computer until about 5:30 or 6.  If you hear anything that I should know give me a call on my cell.  I'm gonna go by and check on the Cuz before I leave town in about 45 minutes. Thanks Angie! 

Everyone keep the faith and continue to hope!  As long as Joran is still being held I'm going to try to be confident!

Casa,
Please give her a hug from us and let her know we're praying...

Thanks for going to check on her, sweetie 

[Tamikosmom]

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/11/30/

A badly informed lawyer


By: Jossy M. Mansur

Once again this man, who thinks himself a star lawyer, has given various televised interviews in which he unfortunately proves that he has no control over his emotions, and uttered one nonsense after the other in angry tone he could not camouflage! What is he looking for really? Popularity? This certainly is not the way to achieve his goal!

I have an immense regard for Greta, but I can't understand why she gives this man the last word and doesn't let us confront him. Neither does she with the facts of the case, which Greta is fully aware of, I'm sure. Maybe in the US, there might be some people that are afraid of his tongue and temper, but with me, he is climbing the wrong tree!

How does a lawyer who pretends to have any class, say that what I've quoted from Joran's deposition isn't true? I again publish this document in the original Dutch, with a translation in English. This should put duct tape on Tacopina's mouth.

In the referred document, Joran said to four Aruban police officers that he thinks he might know where Natalee's body is buried, and that he thinks that Deepak went back to the beach where the girl was lying on the sand, raped and killed Natalee, and afterward buried her close to the first fishermen's hut! And he also wants to ignore a taped conversation in a police car, where the three suspects (Joran, Deepak and Satish were sitting in the back seat), trying to make his client, Joran, come out "innocent" in his confrontation with Deepak. Does this lawyer know how to read? Or is he simply dumb? Deepak said directly to Joran (and the police have this tape!): "if they find the girl, you are looking at 15 years in prison! What did he mean by that? That Joran is "innocent" or "guilty" of something that will send him behind bars for so many years? Can this big-mouthed lawyer understand this? Or does he only want to impose his street style here too? Attacking my evidence based on real facts won't help his client, and if he doesn't stop painting Joran like an angel, I'll find myself forced to publish everything we have found out about him since he was 8 years old! He is certainly no "angel", believe me!

Let Tacopina understand once and for all that I have 33 years of journalism in Aruba behind me, and that if the American media ask for my comments, it is because they are aware that I know more than Tacopina thinks! Could he possibly be trying to break my credibility with the American People, by his clownish acts on TV? I've always spoken the truth to them! I have nothing to hide from anyone. My relationship with David Kock and Ronny Wix, the defense lawyers for the Kalpoe brothers is excellent! They have the professional ethics that Tacopina lacks and a good sense in the practice of law, of that I'm sure!

In my opinion, Paulus committed a critical error when he hired Tacopina to defend Joran, because he doesn't know our environment, he is not up-to-date directly on what happened to Natalee, and all his "knowledge" seems to come from what he has read about the case. I'm sure he doesn't have half of the documents that DIARIO has. Furthermore, we have additional documents that no other media can even dream of having, and that's because we are serious journalists that respect authorities and cooperate with them when asked to do so.

I've said on Greta's show that the three suspects know very well what happened to Natalee, because they were the last ones that were with her on the night of her disappearance. Forget about the tales that from Carlos and Charlies they left her at the Holiday Inn or at the beach close to the Marriott! The story about going behind the Lighthouse to see sharks also leaves lots of doubts. There are contradicting testimonies from Joran, Deepak and Satish! Joran said that they went to his apartment from Carlos and Charlies; the Kalpoe brothers have completely denied that statement. They have declared to the police that they didn't go to that apartment! Which party is telling the truth? And Joran declared that Deepak picked him up at the beach, but Deepak denied that allegation. And then Joran said it was Satish that picked him up! But Satish also denied that he picked him up! The big question Tacopina has to answer is: How did Joran get back home that night? Did he walk? Did Paulus pick him up? Or was there someone else?

And can Tacopina explain to us how his client did the miracle of letting his shoes grow from size 11 to size 14 in one night?

These are some of the discrepancies that authorities have been investigating again, because they don't make any sense! For instance, what was the real relationship between Joran and Koen? Why did he leave the island one or two days after Natalee disappeared? Why, when Art Wood and Dave, Natalee's father, asked authorities to interrogate him, it wasn't done? Why hasn't he been interrogated so far? My reliable sources tell me that Koen knows exactly what happened that night!

If Tacopina thinks that we're not aware of ALL the details of this case, he is badly mistaken! The truth is that we honor our word and will not reveal what we know from our police and judicial sources when asked not to do so! What is said to us in trust will never be betrayed, because then we would be betraying our principles!

I hope this case goes to Court as soon as possible, and if Joran, Deepak and Satish are innocent, they will be cleared by the judge. And if one or more are guilty, this also will be determined by the evidence presented to the presiding Judge. My advice to Tacopina? Stay in the US! Your presence in Aruba will only cause more harm to Joran! Believe me!

Thanks Klaas

[mishy]

UNBELIEVABLE.
   


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxXZSa1rYC8

Carpe, it almost sounds like Greta was crying at the beginning of that...

[klaasend]

Posted on the front page of SM:

EURobert wrote:

I haven’t given up all hope yet. There could be a possibility that the two are released because there’s no necessity to hold them longer in order to continue the investigation / interrogation of JvdS. Maybe they are not allowed to leave the island.

It’s still open…