Natalee Case Discussion #698 11/30/2007

[KarmaRoundUp]

Spock - please read back a couple of pages

Thanks Klaas, our posts hit about the same time. I understand the information comes from the Judges ruling. My question becomes how can disposal of a body not be a crime worthy of pretrial detention?

Also, if the Kalpoes involved themselves in disposal of a body, they had to of had a motive apart from helping their friend get off the hook.

Spock,the only thing I can think of is that the Kalpoe's could not be held on the charges of voluntary manslaughter but....maybe they can be rearrested on the chages of body disposal and covering up a crime?

[sirensong]

Anyone know who the judge was that released them?

[Tylergal]

Posted by SMS at RU:

From cnn reporter:

Han Mos says it's a setback and a bit of a surprise that the judge decided to set them free.

Not enough to hold them for pre trial


Reading from the release of judges ruling:

New evidence together with existing evidence in this case file does produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting of covering up the traces of a crime committed or the disposing of a corpse. However it goes on to say that even the combination of either of those is not enough to keep these two suspects in pretrial detention any longer.


So Han MOs saying again it's a setback but he does have three days to lodge an appeal with the court of appeals here.
 
But that wont be enough to stand in the way of the release of these two suspects, the Kalpoe brothers tomorrow at 4pm.

Joran will be there until at least Dec. 7th

Reporters were told that the new evidence was the same for all three suspects. (my question - told by whom, the defense attorneys or the prosecutor?)

Evidence was same for all 3.  Could it be that all evidence showed that Joran was the guilty goat in all this?  In all 3 cases? 

[Blue Moon]

Remember Mos was always sly about answering if all the charges would be the same.  He kind of side stepped that by not really answering.  He would only say at the moment yes all would carry the same charge.  I think he knew what they would be charged with and only led everyone to believe he had them all on the same charge.  He said from the beginning he would not discuss the specifics of this case so I think he is very aware of what he is doing here.

[Tylergal]

It has always been my belief that JVS did the deed and the Kalpoes were accessories so I am not too upset by this  YET!

The judge seems to be somehow agreeing that though there is serious evidence the Kalpoes were accessories after the fact, as we call it, this is not as serious a charge and therefore they don't need to stay in jail until and if convicted.  I remember reading these rules in Dutch law - that the pretrial detention or accusation detention was not as easy for a lesser crime. 

I seem to be missing some developments here:

1. Kalpoes suspected of "disposing of body" and "destroying evidence" and released?

2. Joran suspected of "voluntary manslaughter" and held?

3. The Judge said disposing of a body is not serious enough to merit detention?
Julia renfro.
4. What is the source of all of this or is this guessing?

[Spock]

Ther Kalpoes may be effectively "out on bail", but we dont have charges and we dont have a trial date. If they assisted in disposal of a body, they must have a motive, and that likely would be they did something to her they did not wish to have discovered. That should be enough to hold them another eight days.

[wreck]

Posted by SMS at RU:

From cnn reporter:

Han Mos says it's a setback and a bit of a surprise that the judge decided to set them free.

Not enough to hold them for pre trial


Reading from the release of judges ruling:

New evidence together with existing evidence in this case file does produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting of covering up the traces of a crime committed or the disposing of a corpse. However it goes on to say that even the combination of either of those is not enough to keep these two suspects in pretrial detention any longer.


So Han MOs saying again it's a setback but he does have three days to lodge an appeal with the court of appeals here.
 
But that wont be enough to stand in the way of the release of these two suspects, the Kalpoe brothers tomorrow at 4pm.

Joran will be there until at least Dec. 7th

Reporters were told that the new evidence was the same for all three suspects. (my question - told by whom, the defense attorneys or the prosecutor?)

Evidence was same for all 3.  Could it be that all evidence showed that Joran was the guilty goat in all this?  In all 3 cases? 

That would be MY guess!!

[Tylergal]

Spock - please read back a couple of pages

Thanks Klaas, our posts hit about the same time. I understand the information comes from the Judges ruling. My question becomes how can disposal of a body not be a crime worthy of pretrial detention?

Also, if the Kalpoes involved themselves in disposal of a body, they had to of had a motive apart from helping their friend get off the hook.

Spock,
I mentioned it several pages back --
I don't think the Dutch system allows people out "on bail." The kalpoes are essentially "out on bail awaiting trial." You can only be held in Detention for the most serious of charges.

.... that said, I DO think personally that "disposal of a body" is pretty damned serious and it SHOULD be a detainable offense pre-trial.

"cannot hold on pretrial detention."  To me this sounds like a trial is forthcoming and they could be placed under arrest, depending on this trial and its findings.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I am just trying to understand their system.  I think I know, but that's beside the point. 

[wreck]

pretrial detention

[/b]

Key words here! This implies a trial IS coming -- they just can't be held behind bars UNTIL the trial.

[Anna]

Voluntary, Not Involuntary

Right.  Thanks for correction.  I actually knew that.

And since Mos had provided details and explanations of the charges "against the suspects"  THEN he should have been just as clear in stating that these charges applied to sloot only.

Isn't this the first time anyone here or elsewhere is hearing the Kalpoe's were being held for "disposing of body" and "destroying evidence?"

So Kalpoes are held on crime of destroying evidence -- but have to be released because there isn't enough evidence to hold them longer? 

That's Aruban justice for you.

.

 

I think Mos is only guilty of trying to over-prosecute the Kalpoes. (Again, I think the Kalpoes should be fried as well -- but I can see the Judge's point)

Reminder that no one has been charged as yet.

No, the Kalpoes were not released because there was not enough evidence to hold them but because the suspicions under which they are being held, not charges but suspicions only, are of a much lesser crime and not one that calls for being held without bond as we would put it in this country.

.

[Observer]

I am declaring my show a Tacopina free zone, however I may have a comment or two about him. 

dana, that's the best damn news i've heard today.
dennisintn
[/quote]

Yes!! We can finally listen to a show without the scrooge 

Don't worry folks..The Evil doer's will not win!! 

http://www.scroogeyourself.com/?id=1123256495

[Peaches]

pretrial detention

[/b]

Key words here! This implies a trial IS coming -- they just can't be held behind bars UNTIL the trial.

I like your line of thinking.

Wonder what the sporter thinks about his accomplices getting out of the pokey?

[Nut44x4]

Wasn't Mos suppose to give a statement around 4:30?? Did I miss it?

[ozziesmom]

Spock - please read back a couple of pages

Thanks Klaas, our posts hit about the same time. I understand the information comes from the Judges ruling. My question becomes how can disposal of a body not be a crime worthy of pretrial detention?

Also, if the Kalpoes involved themselves in disposal of a body, they had to of had a motive apart from helping their friend get off the hook.

Spock,
I mentioned it several pages back --
I don't think the Dutch system allows people out "on bail." The kalpoes are essentially "out on bail awaiting trial." You can only be held in Detention for the most serious of charges.

.... that said, I DO think personally that "disposal of a body" is pretty damned serious and it SHOULD be a detainable offense pre-trial.

"cannot hold on pretrial detention."  To me this sounds like a trial is forthcoming and they could be placed under arrest, depending on this trial and its findings.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I am just trying to understand their system.  I think I know, but that's beside the point.  

Hi Monkeys, I'm disappointed by the release as welll ggrrrr, but Tyler seriously? They change it everyday? I don't think they have a "system" they make it up as they go along!

I'll keep praying for Natalee, and I hope Beth and Dave at least get some answers...

[truthseeker2]

pretrial detention

[/b]

Key words here! This implies a trial IS coming -- they just can't be held behind bars UNTIL the trial.

Well if that be the case would releasing them set up a situation for them to be either coached by the relatives of the prime suspect or threatened by them?

.....And I am still waiting for Van Der Straten to be held accountable for his actions during the first investigation.

[Kiwi]

There's kind of a bigger question. If the 2K's helped hide Natalee, why release them without having them show where she is! So if its a lessor crime in Aruba why not just till us the rest.

[Nut44x4]

pretrial detention

[/b]

Key words here! This implies a trial IS coming -- they just can't be held behind bars UNTIL the trial.

I like your line of thinking.

Wonder what the sporter thinks about his accomplices getting out of the pokey?

It is likely that we will be told that Joran doesn't know but we all know that would be BS, as well. You can bet your boots he knew a few minutes after it all went down.

[Nut44x4]

By the way Peaches, I hope you are feeling well today.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Spock - please read back a couple of pages

Thanks Klaas, our posts hit about the same time. I understand the information comes from the Judges ruling. My question becomes how can disposal of a body not be a crime worthy of pretrial detention?

Also, if the Kalpoes involved themselves in disposal of a body, they had to of had a motive apart from helping their friend get off the hook.

Is it possible that in Aruba this happens on a regular basis?  Not something anyone would be concerned about?

One witness is no witness.  How many have disappeared before?

[Peaches]

By the way Peaches, I hope you are feeling well today.

I'm maintaining my position on the daisy side of the dirt, thank you for asking.

I think I need a nap now.