Natalee Case Discussion #698 11/30/2007

[Tamikosmom]

Ia m absolutely torn down the middle...part of me think this is just Bullcrap...well planned and executed....the have still wants to believe...so I am just gonna go get drunk!!

ME TOO!

I do not drink ... but I do have my weaknesses that I fall back up when I am frustrated and ... today I am frustrated.

I do believe I will partake in a large slice of mud pie that my daughter-in-law brought over as a contribution to our take-out Chinese food dinner.  I think I will forget about the Chinese food and ... go straight for the pie.   

Janet

[Red]

TUNE IN AT 9PM ET (15 minutes from now)

www.scaredmonkeysradio.com

It will certainly be interesting to hear Jossy's take on the Kalpoe's being released and his prosecutor & Judge basically creating a circus with the case all over again. Not quite the image I am sure Jossy wants for Aruba,

[ldstlou]

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

Moss press conference

I thought I heard Mos say the judge thought there was "serious material" in regards to k2 being guilty of lesser charges of hiding a body. Did he say serious material or suspicion? I think there is a big difference in my mind at least.

[MumInOhio]

I wonder if this applies to Aruba?

http://www.caribbeancourtofjustice.org/papersandarticles/ccj-code%20of%20conduct.pdf

I wonder what organization holds judges accountable for their behavior?

Who's watching the chamber?

Does a watched chamber ever boil?

Posted on this last week to Anna as it appears Judge Wit sp was promoted..per Ramm. Later I read she had not read back. Checked pics and Jacob Wit sp is our Judge Wit. Does not seem to include Aruba. But not sure and wanted to know what Ramm had posted at BFN.

[Canary]

Sorry I can't transcribe the press conf. cause it doesn't come in well on my computer - very jerky and hard to understand so I didn't get the exact words

[klaasend]

TUNE IN TO DANA PRETZER NOW - so you are all set up by 9pm ET

[Nut44x4]

idfwiw...gwen used to be gagal05, but was banned at RU then came back as gwen. You are right tho not as many are paying attention to Glenda/Julia as they use to...

I thought gwen/gagal_05/glenda were all one and the same?!

no way

[Anna]

Does anyone else think it was just super crappy of Greta to call Beth and just dump on her that the Kalpoes released without even bothering to find out what the judge really said?

Big difference in just being released and being released under suspicion.

.

[JA]

You can bet that Paulus is going to try to contact the Kalpoes whether himslef or a third party.  He is going to want to know exactly what was asked of the Kalpoes and what they answered with.  he then will let Joran's lawyers who in turn will share this with Joran.  I hope they have sense enoguth to tell Papa to take a hike.  They must know by now ( regardless of their involvement) that it is all about Joran, and that Papa is not looking out for them at all unless it saves Joran's hide.  I hope they impressed that on the Kalpoes before releasing them.

Without a doubt, I feel the brothers are guilty of the knowledge that Joran was planning to drug a tourist and sexually assault her.  They assisted in getting her to the car, and sitting by and allowing Joran to sexually assault her.

They also were guilty of obstructing justice by lying to the police, covering up for Joran, most likely to save themselves.  They knew they were involved and I am sure Paulus told them that they would serve time for their involvement, so they must deny everything, because there was no body to prove a crime anyway.  The snowball started rolling at that point and they got in over their heads.

They may have been guilty of assisting Joran with an unconscious, semi-unconscious, injured, or possibly dead Natalee by carrying her in and out of the car to various locations etc.  They may have also helped set up alibis due to Paulus and/or Joran irequest/demand, or been a "chauffer" for Joran that night or in night to follow.  They may have assisted in the disposal of the body, or helped Joran set up some contacts etc.

If any of the above is true and they actually didn't sexually assault her, take part in a possible injury, or negelect to get her medical help while in their "care" this may not be a heavy punishable offense in Dutch Courts.  If you only get 10-15 for a murder, with some of that time being reduced, then they probably wouldn't get much time for the other offenses.

We need to see Paulus picked up!  I don't know Dutch law, but is it possible he is considered immune from what he knows because he is considered one of Joran's lawyers?  That is not to say he isn't guilty of participating int hr evening, but as others have said, maybe Joran needs to be charged with the voluntary murder first.

[klaasend]

JOSSY:  The judge saw no merit in the evidence and released them (K2).  The judge rejected the appeal that K2's get the same attorney.  The judge also rejected Joran's appeal except for the bible.

[Pita]

I wonder if this applies to Aruba?

http://www.caribbeancourtofjustice.org/papersandarticles/ccj-code%20of%20conduct.pdf

I wonder what organization holds judges accountable for their behavior?

Who's watching the chamber?

Does a watched chamber ever boil?

Posted on this last week to Anna as it appears Judge Wit sp was promoted..per Ramm. Later I read she had not read back. Checked pics and Jacob Wit sp is our Judge Wit. Does not seem to include Aruba. But not sure and wanted to know what Ramm had posted at BFN.

Ramm's post at BFN:

seeing as, almost all the judges are just going there for 3 years before going back to the Netherlands to continue their career as judge in the Netherlands, it is certain that those judges are just as good as any other judge in the Kingdom. They are not second rate judges, they are the same judges that have before and will again be judges in the Netherlands after their tour of duty in the Carribean.

And Judge Witt is now a judge on a higher court in the area, not involved in day to day judging on Curacao (as far as I have found out).

[WhiskeyGirl]

Isn't it possible that someone set up Mos and the prosecutors office?  

The Kalpoes?  I wonder who was on the phone?  Who and what conversations were taped?

Deflect away from the VDS compound?

[klaasend]

DANA:  I was livid when JoeT accused Jossy of fabricating evidence.
Is JoeT given any status in Aruba. 

JOSSY:  JoeT can't practice law or activily participate in any court procedings.  He's a loud mouth lawyer. 

[klaasend]

JOSSY:  All JoeT wants to do is show his face on TV and hear himself talk.

[robots]

Does anyone else think it was just super crappy of Greta to call Beth and just dump on her that the Kalpoes released without even bothering to find out what the judge really said?

Big difference in just being released and being released under suspicion.

.

just more confiramtion that greta is a witch

[robots]

You can bet that Paulus is going to try to contact the Kalpoes whether himslef or a third party.  He is going to want to know exactly what was asked of the Kalpoes and what they answered with.  he then will let Joran's lawyers who in turn will share this with Joran.  I hope they have sense enoguth to tell Papa to take a hike.  They must know by now ( regardless of their involvement) that it is all about Joran, and that Papa is not looking out for them at all unless it saves Joran's hide.  I hope they impressed that on the Kalpoes before releasing them.

Without a doubt, I feel the brothers are guilty of the knowledge that Joran was planning to drug a tourist and sexually assault her.  They assisted in getting her to the car, and sitting by and allowing Joran to sexually assault her.

They also were guilty of obstructing justice by lying to the police, covering up for Joran, most likely to save themselves.  They knew they were involved and I am sure Paulus told them that they would serve time for their involvement, so they must deny everything, because there was no body to prove a crime anyway.  The snowball started rolling at that point and they got in over their heads.

They may have been guilty of assisting Joran with an unconscious, semi-unconscious, injured, or possibly dead Natalee by carrying her in and out of the car to various locations etc.  They may have also helped set up alibis due to Paulus and/or Joran irequest/demand, or been a "chauffer" for Joran that night or in night to follow.  They may have assisted in the disposal of the body, or helped Joran set up some contacts etc.

If any of the above is true and they actually didn't sexually assault her, take part in a possible injury, or negelect to get her medical help while in their "care" this may not be a heavy punishable offense in Dutch Courts.  If you only get 10-15 for a murder, with some of that time being reduced, then they probably wouldn't get much time for the other offenses.

We need to see Paulus picked up!  I don't know Dutch law, but is it possible he is considered immune from what he knows because he is considered one of Joran's lawyers?  That is not to say he isn't guilty of participating int hr evening, but as others have said, maybe Joran needs to be charged with the voluntary murder first.

yes, they (  the K2 ) what joran was up to

[Observer]

[quote

Amigoe states that judge commissioner still is of the opinion that there is considerable/very serious suspicions against the suspects, but that the things they are most likely going to be charged with (destroying evidence of the crime and making the body disappear" carry such a low prison sentence that for that reason lengthening this part of their incarceration not in accordance with the standing laws and jurisprudence.

From this I would hope to conclude that the DA has at least the same level of suspicion against Joran van der Sloot and that the crimes he is suspected do warrant under law extending of his incarceration.

[/quote]

[klaasend]

JOSSY:  Since the K2's have been released, do you think they will be tried with anything.

They have been released but NOT EXONERATED. 


JOSSY:  JoeT would need a work permit to work in Aruba.  JoeT cannot practice law.

[klaasend]

JOSSY:  Does not know the names of the judges.  There were 2.  One for Joran and one for K2's

[klaasend]

JOSSY:  Met with the prosecutor a couple days ago.  Jossy feels that the prosecutor has solid evidence against the suspects, especially pertaining to the sexual assault part of it.