Natalee Case Discussion #698 11/30/2007

[klaasend]

JOSSY:  Will go in front of a judge next Thursday.  Jossy is affraid they may also let Joran go unless they have evidence that pertains specifically to Joran.

Thanks, Klaas.  You are the best, but Jossy is contradicting himself, NO?

What Jossy is saying is that IF they same New Evidence is in Joran's file then the Judge may release Joran from custody as well.  IF

Now that said, being released does not release them as suspects.  It only means that they can't be held in pre-trial detention. 

[AZSunny]

Fox update..Interview with Tito and new greaseball attorney representing Tacos  Law firm

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xT1e6ipPFlY

Tito performing his rare blend of Papiajivehonkingenglesio.

Lol....thanks day, I really needed that chuckle...it helped.

You know what, Nutt, an old man used to tell me when I was quite young (most of the time mad at my husband because he had to work every holiday) and other people had their husbands home --- he would say, "the sun don't shine up the same dog's ass every morning."   Just wait.  Every dog his/her day.  It's coming.

Tyler, that is a quote my father used to say as well.  The last time he used it was when my Niece's team had lost a game, and she was depressed. She was about 13 at the time.   She quoted him in her speech when she became an all American  in collegefor the third time, and everyone in the audience broke up laughing. She was referring to the fact that her college team had been defeated in the playoffs after having won the previous year.  Thanks for the memory.  But now I am sad for not having him here!  Yes,  he was from Georgia!

[Leslie]

On HGTV Canada right now on Selling Houses Abroad " a couple search for an oceanfront home in Aruba".  Joe and Mercy just saw a $ million+  home that didn't have a bathtub but it was close to a golf course.  Looks like Tierra del Sol to me.  
Just bizarre watching this.  They just showed the California lighthouse.

[klaasend]

CBB

[ldstlou]

JOSSY:  Will go in front of a judge next Thursday.  Jossy is affraid they may also let Joran go unless they have evidence that pertains specifically to Joran.

Thanks, Klaas.  You are the best, but Jossy is contradicting himself, NO?

I didn't get that...think he says..if material is same..he will go...BUT if material pertained to joran or additional material, he can be held over.

We have guessed that j2 knew what happened, but most probably joran was with Natalee alone when it happened. It could be the case and so only joran can be charged with manslaughter.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Jossy had some good points...
(my parapharase)

Many on Aruba have sons and daughters.  They want the case solved and would like the parents of Natalee to have answers.
~~~~~~

I can't imagine living in a place where this kind of thing is going on.  The only thing that comes to mind in the U.S. right now is Bolingbrook and Stacy.   I see a lot of similarities.

When you're in the middle of a nightmare, how do you wake up?

[klaasend]

On HGTV Canada right now on Selling Houses Abroad " a couple search for an oceanfront home in Aruba".  Joe and Mercy just saw a $ million+  home that didn't have a bathtub but it was close to a golf course.  Looks like Tierra del Sol to me.  
Just bizarre watching this.  They just showed the California lighthouse.

Yeah, it's a repeat of a show they did about a year ago. 

[mishy]

You can bet that Paulus is going to try to contact the Kalpoes whether himslef or a third party.  He is going to want to know exactly what was asked of the Kalpoes and what they answered with.  he then will let Joran's lawyers who in turn will share this with Joran.  I hope they have sense enoguth to tell Papa to take a hike.  They must know by now ( regardless of their involvement) that it is all about Joran, and that Papa is not looking out for them at all unless it saves Joran's hide.  I hope they impressed that on the Kalpoes before releasing them.


[/quote

Hopefully all of their phones are bugged and they're being watched in case Paulus or one of his minions tries to contact them...]

[Anna]

Greta is way overdue to have John Q Kelly on her program to offset Joe T.  She has had Joe T on ten times since JQK at least that I have seen.

Does anyone know who she will have from Aruba?  I wonder if she now understands that the Kalpoes were not released from being suspects just from PRETRIAL detention.

I like that word pretrial as it indicates that a trial is in the works.

[Anna]

WOW, that commercial is REALLY loud!

[klaasend]

Stephanie Good -  up next

[WhiskeyGirl]

Greta is way overdue to have John Q Kelly on her program to offset Joe T.  She has had Joe T on ten times since JQK at least that I have seen.

Does anyone know who she will have from Aruba?  I wonder if she now understands that the Kalpoes were not released from being suspects just from PRETRIAL detention.

I like that word pretrial as it indicates that a trial is in the works.

I wonder, if a suspect leave the country, and no trial is held, does that mean a crime has not happened?

[robots]

i can see a trial coming

K2 will get minor charges thrown at them

joran will get more of course


they are NOT released as suspects,

pretrial 

[islanders]

Please guys, I'm just sick about the Kalpoes being released..............is that it then? They'll release Joran as well. Is it over?

(I posted this a few pages back. I don't think their release is significant. Lets wait to see if there will be a trial.)

The purpose of the arrest was not to force them into a confession and have them turn on one another.

It was to give them a choice to either stick with their old lies or make up new ones before going to trial.

So how is that going to look? If they they have to explain why they were lying up until November 30th 2007? And if they change their stories at the trial, they will be asked why they didn't provide that information during the investigation only a few months earlier.

So nothing has changed except Hans Mos has brought them in to establish their lies from two years ago.

This is a pre-trial situation. And what is important to remember this time around is the post-trial lock up.

1) pre-trial (Mos isn't showing all his cards)

2) establishes lies from 2 years ago

3) goes to trial

4) establishes case against them, which will include lies right up to the trial

[Tamikosmom]

What is so absurd is what in the hell were the Kalpoe's doing there at all? They weren't there to just drive Joran around

What were the Kalpoe's doing there at all?

Accident my ass

Frank ... I believe that Natalee's death was unintentional.  However ... unintentional or not ... Natalee's death resulted from wrong doing ... premeditated wronging.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++


Diana Emerencia - Freddy's Attorney
Decatur Daily News
August 31, 2005

Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis, a friend of van der Sloot and the Kalpoes, was arrested on suspicion of having unspecified "physical contact" with a female minor, said his lawyer, Diana Emerencia.

Zedan-Arambatzis, 21, is also suspected of photographing the girl in "tempting poses" and showing the images to other people, Emerencia said.

The Kalpoe brothers and van der Sloot are also suspected of involvement in the incident, which allegedly occurred before Holloway disappeared, she said.


Jossy Mansur
'Scarborough Country'
August 26, 2005

DANIELS:  It definitely smells that way.  You know, if you take the prosecution‘s statement at its face, we are talking on a whole new level, the charges here.  We are talking about drugs.  We are talking about rape and we are talking about rape of many different people.  There are four guys now in custody, four best friends.  What does that tell you?
 
MANSUR:  Well, what it tells me is that, really, these four guys are friends.  They belong to the same group, these party boys that go out and prey on young, unsuspected girls or other kinds of girls also that are out to have a good time, not suspecting what they‘re in for with these predators around.

And they are—they not only appear in photographs together, but I understand that Freddy lives very near to the Joran house.  So, there is a bond between them.  There is a group that they call themselves the pimps, in which all of these participate.


Beth Twitty
'The Abrams Report'
August 4, 2005

TWITTY:  You know it's a pretty long scenario; we have a lot of details.  You know the main thing to sum it up is you know Joran, how he entered this establishment.  I believe that you know if you enter on the right side, you have to have a valid I.D.  If you enter Carlos N' Charlie's on the left side, you must have some type of—I don't know if it's a VIP pass or what to enter, but Joran enters the establishment on the left side, approaches these groups of tourists. 

You know it's interesting how he is able to try to work his way in and connect and establish himself in that—in Carlos N' Charlie's, was walking her around and these other tourists and was able to point out Satish and Deepak Kalpoe.  They were sitting ironically in the same corner, the same stools that they were seated at in the picture that's been all over international media, so that must be their spot that they wait while Joran is working.

[WhiskeyGirl]

I wonder how many people know about the corpse?  

no corpse/no body/no case

How many people know what happened to the body?

[klaasend]

Posted by Lazlo at RU:

lazlo wrote:

In 2006 they have tried ppl to befriend Joran to get him to tell them things (In Holland that is considered infiltration), that was no succes since back then Joran was extremely paranoide (resulted in circumstancial only).

I do not know if simular was tried again in 2007 but I would expect it was since it is known that ppl get less carefull/alert over time.

[mishy]

I was listening to Dana's show. Wow, that was cool to see the folks here at Scared Monkey being discussed with the case!

Congrats you guys!

I'm not jumping ship until Hans Mos says he isn't pressing charges.

He is probably trying to buy some time for the ocean search.

These suspects were just arrested for questioning. This party is just getting started.



 

I like the way you think, Islanders...

[Observer]

Hat tip to Heli at refugee site:& Pearl@BFN

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/11/30/

A badly informed lawyer By: Jossy M. Mansur

Once again this man, who thinks himself a star lawyer, has given various televised interviews in which he unfortunately proves that he has no control over his emotions, and uttered one nonsense after the other in angry tone he could not camouflage! What is he looking for really? Popularity?

This certainly is not the way to achieve his goal! I have an immense regard for Greta, but I can't understand why she gives this man the last word and doesn't let us confront him. Neither does she with the facts of the case, which Greta is fully aware of, I'm sure. Maybe in the US, there might be some people that are afraid of his tongue and temper, but with me, he is climbing the wrong tree!

How does a lawyer who pretends to have any class, say that what I've quoted from Joran's deposition isn't true? I again publish this document in the original Dutch, with a translation in English. This should put duct tape on Tacopina's mouth.

 In the referred document, Joran said to four Aruban police officers that he thinks he might know where Natalee's body is buried, and that he thinks that Deepak went back to the beach where the girl was lying on the sand, raped and killed Natalee, and afterward buried her close to the first fishermen's hut!

And he also wants to ignore a taped conversation in a police car, where the three suspects (Joran, Deepak and Satish were sitting in the back seat), trying to make his client, Joran, come out "innocent" in his confrontation with Deepak.

Does this lawyer know how to read? Or is he simply dumb?

Deepak said directly to Joran (and the police have this tape!): "if they find the girl, you are looking at 15 years in prison! What did he mean by that? That Joran is "innocent" or "guilty" of something that will send him behind bars for so many years?

Can this big-mouthed lawyer understand this? Or does he only want to impose his street style here too?

Attacking my evidence based on real facts won't help his client, and if he doesn't stop painting Joran like an angel, I'll find myself forced to publish everything we have found out about him since he was 8 years old! He is certainly no "angel", believe me!

 Let Tacopina understand once and for all that I have 33 years of journalism in Aruba behind me, and that if the American media ask for my comments, it is because they are aware that I know more than Tacopina thinks! Could he possibly be trying to break my credibility with the American People, by his clownish acts on TV?

I've always spoken the truth to them! I have nothing to hide from anyone. My relationship with David Kock and Ronny Wix, the defense lawyers for the Kalpoe brothers is excellent! They have the professional ethics that Tacopina lacks and a good sense in the practice of law, of that I'm sure!

 In my opinion, Paulus committed a critical error when he hired Tacopina to defend Joran, because he doesn't know our environment, he is not up-to-date directly on what happened to Natalee, and all his "knowledge" seems to come from what he has read about the case. I'm sure he doesn't have half of the documents that DIARIO has.

 Furthermore, we have additional documents that no other media can even dream of having, and that's because we are serious journalists that respect authorities and cooperate with them when asked to do so.

 I've said on Greta's show that the three suspects know very well what happened to Natalee, because they were the last ones that were with her on the night of her disappearance. Forget about the tales that from Carlos and Charlies they left her at the Holiday Inn or at the beach close to the Marriott! The story about going behind the Lighthouse to see sharks also leaves lots of doubts.

There are contradicting testimonies from Joran, Deepak and Satish! Joran said that they went to his apartment from Carlos and Charlies; the Kalpoe brothers have completely denied that statement. They have declared to the police that they didn't go to that apartment! Which party is telling the truth?

And Joran declared that Deepak picked him up at the beach, but Deepak denied that allegation. And then Joran said it was Satish that picked him up! But Satish also denied that he picked him up! The big question Tacopina has to answer is: How did Joran get back home that night? Did he walk? Did Paulus pick him up? Or was there someone else?

And can Tacopina explain to us how his client did the miracle of letting his shoes grow from size 11 to size 14 in one night?

These are some of the discrepancies that authorities have been investigating again, because they don't make any sense!

For instance, what was the real relationship between Joran and Koen? Why did he leave the island one or two days after Natalee disappeared? Why, when Art Wood and Dave, Natalee's father, asked authorities to interrogate him, it wasn't done? Why hasn't he been interrogated so far? My reliable sources tell me that Koen knows exactly what happened that night!

 If Tacopina thinks that we're not aware of ALL the details of this case, he is badly mistaken! The truth is that we honor our word and will not reveal what we know from our police and judicial sources when asked not to do so! What is said to us in trust will never be betrayed, because then we would be betraying our principles!

 I hope this case goes to Court as soon as possible, and if Joran, Deepak and Satish are innocent, they will be cleared by the judge. And if one or more are guilty, this also will be determined by the evidence presented to the presiding Judge.

 My advice to Tacopina? Stay in the US! Your presence in Aruba will only cause more harm to Joran! Believe me!     

[Magnolia]

Greta is way overdue to have John Q Kelly on her program to offset Joe T.  She has had Joe T on ten times since JQK at least that I have seen.

I hope that she does have John Q. Kelly on and that he doesn't get all
dressed up.  I want you all to see how pretty he looks in jeans and a blue
Ralph Lauren shirt with his hair all windblown.  He is very tall.  The man is
made for casual wear.