Natalee Case Discussion #698 11/30/2007

[Tylergal]

Thanks, SB and Frijole.

Thanks, Klaas, for the transcription of the highlights from Jossy.  I know you are tired physically and emotionally.

All we have is faith right now that the man upstairs is going to do the right thing.  We must pray that Mos is guided by a superior power to man and that his decision-making is right.  I think it is.  I think this show today was not totally unexpected.  The man is not braindead.  I think he knew there was a good chance that he could not pin the "death" on the K2.  I think he knows much more than we know.  He might not even be able to charge them with rape.  I suspect they were dropped off at home and Joran used Deepak's car or either Joran picked up one of his family vehicles, possibly the reason Paulus had to go bail him out when he saw "Joran and Natalee."  I just think we need to keep the faith because faith is all we have or that Beth and Dave have. 

Hillary Clinton is on all night tonight.  I think she burned her face really bad in the tanning bed.  Man, that looks like it hurts.  Ouch.

[Tylergal]

Well, I worded that so wrong, I meant to say that Mos is going to be guided by a higher power, that man upstairs who always does what is right in His own time, not ours and I pray that the time that He takes to do that right is soon, but we don't know why things work the way we do. He is in charge.  He has dominion over everything, he even cares for the lowest common denominator in the world, even Julia Renfro and Joran.  He cares because they are His children. He even loves Taco.  That is not to say He approves of what they do but He loves them unconditionally and he loves Beth, Dave, Natalee and in time, He will work His magic.

[crazybabyborg]

Well, I worded that so wrong, I meant to say that Mos is going to be guided by a higher power, that man upstairs who always does what is right in His own time, not ours and I pray that the time that He takes to do that right is soon, but we don't know why things work the way we do. He is in charge.  He has dominion over everything, he even cares for the lowest common denominator in the world, even Julia Renfro and Joran.  He cares because they are His children. He even loves Taco.  That is not to say He approves of what they do but He loves them unconditionally and he loves Beth, Dave, Natalee and in time, He will work His magic.

Ah, Tyler..................you are the voice that carries the message that I need to hear right now. It resonates with what I know is true even if all else around me is screaming otherwise.

Klaas, thank you for your posts to catch me up. Your patience is overwhelming!

[Tamikosmom]

Monkeys ... I have appreciated the dialogue tonight very much.

We may have varying perspectives pertaining to certain aspects regarding the happenings of the past week but ... there is a common foundation on the forum ... Justice for Natalee Holloway and ... empathy for her family.

Reading over over recent posts of this thread makes me very thankful to be a member of this forum.

Thanks you Red, Dugga, Klaas and mods ... you are all the greatest!

Well ... youngest son, wife and hubby have been watching a video and eating Chinese Food.  Me ... I spent the good part of the past couple of hours running back and forth to the computer room.  Now that movie is over ... they have all decided that a board game is where it is at.  As far as I am concerning bedtime is where it is at but ...   

Good Night Monkeys

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY!!

Janet
9:30 PM

[oldfart]

OK... Where is ROBOTS to back me up on this..

Disappointed yes.... surprised a little yes..
K's let out because Judge did not see Manslaugher material. ?  Did MOS play all of his cards ?  Aruba law does not allow detention for the crimes that the Judge saw.( JMO)Seems like MOS was a little suprised too.

Now he knows the playing field and rules being used... If Joan is freed.. then I will be more pissed than ever.  TO me the Judge will be saying that they were involved but did not commit the act... So who did ??

I want Natlee returned home... but I also want someone held accoutable for the illegal acts that occurred... from the perps lies to the bars/casinos and the cover up within the Govt and AHTA..   
JMO of course...    2008 will be a better year for us  or a very BAD one for Aruba...

[crazybabyborg]

OK... Where is ROBOTS to back me up on this..

Disappointed yes.... surprised a little yes..
K's let out because Judge did not see Manslaugher material. ?  Did MOS play all of his cards ?  Aruba law does not allow detention for the crimes that the Judge saw.( JMO)Seems like MOS was a little suprised too.

Now he knows the playing field and rules being used... If Joan is freed.. then I will be more pissed than ever.  TO me the Judge will be saying that they were involved but did not commit the act... So who did ??

I want Natlee returned home... but I also want someone held accoutable for the illegal acts that occurred... from the perps lies to the bars/casinos and the cover up within the Govt and AHTA..   
JMO of course...    2008 will be a better year for us  or a very BAD one for Aruba...

[crazybabyborg]

That just needed repeating, Old Fart!
WELL SAID!

[Port Valerie]

I'm disappointed in the way things turned out today. I'm encouraged because Mos admits he is disappointed too. To me, that indicates that he is an honest man, not trying to put a good spin on something that is clearly not good from his point of view. We also have Dave Holloway, Tim Miller, Jossy  -- all incredibly honest and trustworthy men -- plus the entire crew and management of the Persistence. It's been an honor to see them work. And Beth and Jug also. Their integrity outweighs all the scrambling scheming low-lifes.

[crazybabyborg]

Good Point, Valerie.
Hans' reaction was the same as ours...........well, maybe a little less emotional than mine, and a lot more professional, but it was honest disappointment. He just rings true to me, and it's a long way that we've come from the snapshot Aruba gave the world the first time around.

Aruba's teetering on disaster. We'll see which end of the see saw crashes to the ground.

[Kat_Gram]

Well, the judge did not say that Mos was totally out of order and that he had nothing. Without seeing the actual paers that were presented, its hard to know what to think.
Some nice comments and some food for thought by Tylergal. TY.
ps They had enough to keep Joran until Dec 7. 

[Port Valerie]

Goodnight CBB and all. For tonight at least, all three are still where they belong.

[Dihannah1]

Taco or his croney in Aruba filing to get Joran out of jail first thing monday morning.   Not waiting for him to get out on a friday.  Because its nonsense and no new evidence (according to taco).

Tacoboy is a disgrace.  Surely he can't file anything in Aruba.  He would have to have one of Joran's Aruban attoneys fil for that.  That man makes me sick.

Yes!  and I just emailed that to greta.  I wish everyone would do that and tell her we are not accepting this crap. 

Lots of drama here at home tonight, so trying to keep up.  But I did get an email sent to Greta too.   Now back to catch up.

[Dihannah1]

Why listen to Greta? She acts like she is part of the defense team of low life.

Why does she support Joran and Paulus when they lied to the police the next day Natalee was missing?

Now she attacks Hans Mos at the pre-trial formalities.

When I see Gretta I change the channel.

   

I support Greta for the most part.  She was just as shocked and couldn't understand the release of k2's either.  She's been friends with Beth from day one and has helped her more than any other newscaster.  However, I do agree she needs to quit interviewing Taco.  I believe she would interview JQK if/when she has the chance, but may not have it.  He's keeping quiet, cause he knows more than Taco.  She plays the hands that are dealt to her.  She can't control everything.

[Dihannah1]

Tyler, the voice of reason.  You are so right.  It's not in our hands, it's in the hands of God...  It's not for us to truly judge, though we are human and will react to our emotions.  No matter what,  judgement day will come, whenever that is, but not ours to determine.   We will continue to be here in support, get upset, disagree, etc...  but in the end justice will prevail.

[JuJu]

HOW DARE THEY DO THIS TO THE FAMILY......AGAIN!  I HOPE THAT EVERYBODY ON WHOLE DAMN ISLAND STARVES TO DEATH.

[Red]

Why listen to Greta? She acts like she is part of the defense team of low life.

Why does she support Joran and Paulus when they lied to the police the next day Natalee was missing?

Now she attacks Hans Mos at the pre-trial formalities.

When I see Gretta I change the channel.

   

I support Greta for the most part.  She was just as shocked and couldn't understand the release of k2's either.  She's been friends with Beth from day one and has helped her more than any other newscaster.  However, I do agree she needs to quit interviewing Taco.  I believe she would interview JQK if/when she has the chance, but may not have it.  He's keeping quiet, cause he knows more than Taco.  She plays the hands that are dealt to her.  She can't control everything.

I do believe Greta was shocked as well that Kalpoe's were released. Everyone has to remember that Greta was all but put her eggs in the basket that Deepak is the criminal and Joran is not.

However, one thing strikes me that is different this time around. The present prosecutor had no real reason to put this case front and center again in the eyes of the world. If he had no evidense than he would have been better suited to have just shut up.

So, why bring it forward now? It is highly possible that he has not divulged everything. It just really doesn't make sense to have brought this case up again only to do nothing.

[brerlee]

*YAWN* err, yeah, Aruba.

Hey, I was thinking -- sometimes I do that, ya know, but I'm usually asleep when I'm doing it -- Like I was saying, until I was rudely interrupted:

Maybe Aruba can charge Joran with "Misplacing an American Tourist" ?

Huh? Whatcha think? Surely that's gotta be a law against that.

And then charge the Kalpoe brothers and their dogs for assisting Joran in the conspiracy of misleading ALE in that misplacement of an American Tourist.

Even though the Kalpoes are "freed," they probably ain't going nowhere, 'cause if they could, they probably would've within the last two years.

Rah! Rah! Greta! Yup, she still inclined to believe Joran. Ah, which lies of his are you, Greta, inclined to believe?

Even Joran has admitted that he hasn't yet told the truth, that he might in the future.

So, Greta, which version of his lies are you inclined to believe?

I see, Greta is more inclined to believe Joran over the Kalpoes because Joran lied a lot more than them.

And Greta is in the news business. Unbelievable. Yeah, she's got a good nose for the truth. She sure does. Rah! Rah! Greta!

Yeah, I'm a Greta Fan. Not.

[brerlee]

So they could still have a trial. They could find the Kalpoes guilty of assisting in the conspiracy of covering up the "Misplacement of an American Tourist," and their sentence could be the time already served and maybe an additional month or two.

As for Joran. Maybe he'll be found guilty of "Misplacement of an American Tourist," but because he was a minor at the time, his sentence will probably be the time already served. And Aruba will pay for his plane fair back to the land of the Dutch (they had already bought and half used a round trip ticket--hmm).

Whatca think? Am I close or what?

[Anna]

Hello Susebear, I see you are lurking, too.

I went out for a while and came back and just caught up reading.

We were not there.  We do not know in what capacity the Kalpoes were involved.  Like Joran, they are liars and may lie about what happened not only to exonerate themselves but may have done so originally as bragging.  They may have dropped Joran off, loaned him their car or other scenarios are possible that do not involve them in the actual commission of the gravest of crimes against Natalee.

I have been saying for the last few months that the cast of suspects was much smaller than originally or eventually thought by some.  This is a simple, garden variety crime and not some grand, sweeping conspiracy involving large numbers of people as some have contended.

Paulus is not subject to obstruction of justice charges because he is a first degree relative and so has a free pass under their system to aid and abet in any and all coverups.

Mos does not get to rewrite their laws as he goes along and a conviction of Joran for voluntary manslaughter is about as good as it is going to get as far as justice goes.  I hope they will tell what they did with Natalee so her parents can have that funeral in Alabama, one I think I will try to attend.

We may not like it but it is what it is and hopefully while it is too late for Natalee, this will lead to changes in their system that will benefit victims in the future.  Our own system fails to address wrongs against victims each and every day as well.  We all have room for improvement.  I think Mos is doing the best that he can within the parameters of their law. 

The light at the end of this tunnel may not be what we would like to see but it is what it is and all we are going to get.

MO

.

[Port Valerie]

I do believe Greta was shocked as well that Kalpoe's were released. Everyone has to remember that Greta was all but put her eggs in the basket that Deepak is the criminal and Joran is not.

However, one thing strikes me that is different this time around. The present prosecutor had no real reason to put this case front and center again in the eyes of the world. If he had no evidense than he would have been better suited to have just shut up.

So, why bring it forward now? It is highly possible that he has not divulged everything. It just really doesn't make sense to have brought this case up again only to do nothing.

Excellent point. Yes. Of course. That is why Greta is shocked. The Kalpoes are out of jail and Joran is in. This is not at all her theory of the case. She expected exactly the opposite.