Natalee Case Discussion #698 11/30/2007

[Noly]

Hans press conference

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

[ldstlou]

I am so whipped by this latest news that for one moment I am almost out of words...nothing left in my arsenal of wit to say this time.  Now, can we go back to talking about Lorenzo?  I am deeming every single person on that piece of crap island as having the ability to aid and abet this trio. I think everyone should be under suspicion for a change...time for each person to systematically prove they are involved in this cover up.  Yes, the corruption island hops and even flies into the Hague.  Don't hold anyone accountable for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and the entire island is responsible, as far as I am concerned.  Aruba....Dutch...ALE...KLPD...everyone...you are now linked FOREVER with this crime...FOREVER!!

Don't lose faith yet lala's...it's not over. Let's wait to see what they do with Joran.

It ain't over until the fat lady sings...and anita has been very quiet...no singing yet!
I did not say that!! Sorry....evil streak came out!!! lol

[blah]

Hans press conference

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

thanks for posting this.  The part where he is talking about the ruling on whether or not the K's can use the same lawyer or not is kind of confusing.  It sounds like that ruling might have gone in the Kalpo's favor, not sure it is not real clear.  I guess we will find out soon enough.

[blah]

I am so whipped by this latest news that for one moment I am almost out of words...nothing left in my arsenal of wit to say this time.  Now, can we go back to talking about Lorenzo?  I am deeming every single person on that piece of crap island as having the ability to aid and abet this trio. I think everyone should be under suspicion for a change...time for each person to systematically prove they are involved in this cover up.  Yes, the corruption island hops and even flies into the Hague.  Don't hold anyone accountable for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and the entire island is responsible, as far as I am concerned.  Aruba....Dutch...ALE...KLPD...everyone...you are now linked FOREVER with this crime...FOREVER!!

Don't lose faith yet lala's...it's not over. Let's wait to see what they do with Joran.

It ain't over until the fat lady sings...and anita has been very quiet...no singing yet!
I did not say that!! Sorry....evil streak came out!!! lol

 

[Tamikosmom]

This may already have been posted; apologies if so.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html

Brothers to be freed in Natalee Holloway case
     
ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- Two of the suspects being held in connection with Natalee Holloway's presumed death will be released from custody by Saturday.

Prosecutors wanted Deepak and Satish Kalpoe held in Aruba for another eight days, but a judge rejected their request Friday.

The decision was "a bit of a setback," said Hans Mos, Aruba's chief public prosecutor. But it does not change his plan to decide by the end of the year whether to prosecute anyone in the Holloway case.

"We had hoped for a longer period to confront these suspects with the material we have against them, but this is the way the law says it must go," Mos said. 

Holloway's parents are expected to meet with Mos on Saturday. The prosecutor said he will explain to them what happened, "if I can explain it. I hope I can."

Deepak Kalpoe's defense attorney, meanwhile, said his client is "really happy to recover his freedom after 10 days in jail."

Prosecutors have three days to appeal the decision and will decide Monday whether or not to do so.

A third man, Joran van der Sloot, is still being held in the case. Van der Sloot is set to appear before a judge December 7, and prosecutors have said they are considering requesting that he be detained another 60 days.

The Kalpoe brothers were previously jailed in the case, but were rearrested last week and charged with being involved in the "voluntary manslaughter" of Holloway.

The judge reasoned Friday that "the new evidence, together with the existing evidence in this case, produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting, of covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse," prosecutors said.

But people accused of those crimes do not qualify for pretrial detention under Aruban law, Mos told reporters. He noted that on Monday, the same judge approved van der Sloot's continuing detention based on the same evidence.

"Apparently, the judge sees a difference between the third suspect and these two suspects," Mos said, since the judge concluded the evidence against the Kalpoes was not strong enough to warrant their continued detention.

When the arrests took place November 21, prosecutors said they had new incriminating evidence against the three men.

They were the last people seen with Holloway, 18, as she left an Oranjestad nightclub on May 30, 2005. She was on a trip to Aruba with about 100 classmates celebrating their graduation from Mountain Brook High School in suburban Birmingham, Alabama. 

The three have maintained their innocence in her disappearance.

The Kalpoes have told police they dropped Holloway and van der Sloot off near a lighthouse on the northern tip of the island after they left the nightclub. Van der Sloot's mother, Anita, has said her son told her he was on the beach with Holloway but left her there because she wanted to stay.

Mos has told CNN he believes authorities have enough evidence to prove Holloway is dead, even if her body is never found. He has suggested her death was an accident.

The new evidence against the three men was gathered from advanced techniques used to re-examine existing information, including cell phone records and text messages exchanged the night Holloway disappeared, Mos has said.

Investigators also returned to the homes of the suspects to try to re-create transmissions. The team also discovered that some existing evidence was improperly analyzed.

Defense attorneys for the Kalpoes and van der Sloot have said the prosecutors' evidence is flimsy. "To say it's less than nothing is too much," van der Sloot's lawyer, Ariean de Bie, told CNN.

In Aruba, authorities can make an arrest if they have reasonable suspicion that someone knows about or is involved in a crime. Magistrates investigate cases, and judges determine a suspect's guilt or innocence. There are no jury trials.

mcmarple ... thank youfor all your research ... it is greatly appreciated.

I have been searching for this particular article.

It would be great if there is a translation somewhere of Art Wood's letter.

Thanks again.

Janet

[igsigs]

Maybe - JR DutchAttorney - is the mole who snagged the Joran *confession*?  


-------->  FOB/MF Still Down  <--------

[Tamikosmom]

Hans press conference

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

Thank you Noly.

Janet

[Pita]

Is it also true that JQK is on the island?

If true, this makes me feel good.  No ones pulling any bullshit past John.

It was posted last night that he was.

Judges Jossy said there are 2 judges, one for Joran and one for the Kalpoes but still no names. It was posted last week, from Pearl at BFN, that Judge Smid is one of them. There is a photo of the judge leaving the courthouse yesterday, but as we haven’t a photo of Judge Smid, we still don’t know which case he is hearing. Would feel much better if I knew that one of the other judges and not Judge Smid was hearing Joran’s case. I don’t understand why they are being so secretive about the judges.

Pita..Thanks for bringing Ramm's posts over.

I thought it was said these were two new judges that no one knew, that were chosen because they were supposed to be impartial?!

Anna posted per pearl@BFN that one was Smid. I am not a member so didn't see it myself. Maybe Pita can help!

Judge Smit's name was mentioned in an Amigoe article, according to Pearl.   Couldn't locate her post. 

[klaasend]

Msmarple - were you looking for the full Art Wood letter in Diario?

Jossy, E ultimo noticia ta conmove mi curazon y ta recorda mi con duro a bo, Eduardo y mi persona a traha pa trece e caso aki den husticia.
Mi ta spera tur cos ta bon
 
Apreciado Jossy Mansur,

E re-aresto di Joran Van der Sloot y rumannan Kalpoe ta pone Aruba un biaha mas den spotlight mundial, locual ta pone mas atencion y emocion relaciona cu e desaparicion di Natalee Holloway. Mientras mi ta hala atras y cuidadosamente ta observa e ultimo eventonan tumando lugar, mi mester admiti cu mi ta un poco mas esceptico relaciona cu e intencion di Aruba pa resolve e caso aki.

Por fabor tuma nota cu mi a referi na “intencion” di Aruba' y no su "Abilidad" pa resolve e caso di Natalee Holloway. E pueblo di Aruba merece pa haya sa e berdad den e tragedia aki y no worde mal-informa pa media of su Gobierno. Ta pesey mi ta skirbi esaki. Mi kier pa pueblo di Aruba cuestiona e sinceridad di algun autoridad envolvi y no worde ciega pa miedo di publicidad negativo.

Durante e curso di e investigacion aki, mi a bira amigo personal di bo y bo yiu Eduardo, como tambe Dave Holloway.Mi por declara sin duda ningun cu nos intencion y obhetivonan tabata sali for di nos curazon pa e deseo di encontra Natalee.

Den un bida henter trahando como oficial di polis mi ta haya cu e oficialnan di polis di Aruba cu mi por a conoce ta polisnan capaz, competente y profesional. Aunke, manera bo por corda, consistentemente y repetidamente mi a laga sa mi preocupacion relaciona cu e rol di Dennis Jacobs, un agente den departamento di narcotico, pa su asignacion den e caso como investigador principal, pa e Comisario Van der Straaten. Aruba tin detectivenan cu experiencia den casonan di homicidio y desaparicion di personanan. Di con nan no a haya e oportunidad pa resolve e caso aki. Van der Straaten mes a trece duda den e caso cu su amistad personal cu Paulus Van der Sloot.

Un duda cu nunca a termina cu su retiro, mientras Dave Holloway y mi persona a descubri cu e tabata reuni regularmente cu Jacobs y e Comisario Dompig lunanan durante e investigacion. Esey lo por ta apenas un coincidencia of nan por tin un amistad tambe, pero nos a haya esaki inusual. Mi criticanan di Jacobs a worde bon documenta y mi no ta bay ripiti esaki.

El a worde pasa den mannan di e Prome Minister y Procurador General di Aruba, hunto cu un peticion pa kita Jacobs y Dompig for di e caso. Famianan Holloway y Twitty tambe a tuma parti na e peticion aki.

Na October 2005 Dave Holloway y mi persona a reuni den secreto cu Fiscal Amolyn Flanegin. Nos a haci esaki cu conocimento y permiso di e Procurador General. E meta di e reunion aki tabata pa vocifera nos preocupacion relaciona cu e iregularidadnan cu Dennis Jacobs y Comisario Dompig a mustra durante e curso di e investigacion y nos peticion pa Landsrecherche investiga e dos agentenan aki.

Ami cu Dave a duna Comisario Dompig un pista persuasivo relaciona cu amigo di Joran, Koen Gottenbos y nos tabata sinti cu Gottenbos lo por ta un clave pa resolve e caso. Yiu adolescente di Comisario Dompig a bisa Dave Holloway cu Paulus Van der Sloot aparentemente a fia un boto rond di e lapso di tempo di desaparicion di Natalee. Ami y Dave a haya sa cu e boto tabata di tata di Koen Gottenbos y cu Koen tabata tin miedo di worde aresta. Asina hopi cu e anochi e tabata drumi hunto cu su mayornan riba cama.

Durante e curso di e reunion aki Fiscal Flanegin a bisa nos cu el a resigna for di e caso di Holloway pa motibo di respuesta negativo di (Jacobs y Dompig) pa sigui cu e pistanan relaciona cu Gottenbos. Specificamente cu Koen Gottenbos a suministra Joran cu un alibi ficticio pa e anochi di 31 di Mei, 2005. Flanegin a bisa "sigui e mentiranan y lo bo descubri e berdad."

Dos aña a pasa y nos no tin motibo pa kere cu polis a investiga nos peticion pa bay tras di Koen Gottenbos. Nos a haya sa awo cu evidencianan nobo a sali afo di via yamadanan di telefon y e-mails. Mi por bisabo cu Koen Gottenbos a e-mail Joran tur dia!Mi ta spera y reza cu mi escepticismo ta innecesario y cu husticia lo prevalece.

Dios bendiciona pueblo di Aruba.

Arthur E. Wood

(Arthur E. Wood ta un ex agente special di Servicio Secreto, kende a protehe Presidentenan Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush y Clinton. El a worde honra como Oficial di Polis di aña, pa e Asociacion Internacional di Investigadornan di Credit Card na 1986 y ta un autor y ta conoci pa promove derechonan di victimanan.)
 

[ldstlou]

Morning Klaas!!
You are up bright and early and on top of things already as usual!!!

[Lala'sMom]

Nope.  I refuse this time to think Joran will be any different. K2 drove off with Natalee in the car...now they aren't guilty of anything but hiding or abusing a corpse?   Get real here!  What makes anyone think Joran is any different.  Hell!  He was only in the back seat.  I am not getting my hopes up ever again...the K2 will not pay...Joran will not pay.  I have no faith in their system...it's broken (expletive deleted).  Mos can wish all he wants and think this is going to work this time...but Paulus isn't sweating and Anita isn't worried.

Shango knew. Simian knew.  They tried to tell us that you can't get these guys...they left us hints..they told us things we didn't want to believe.  Now, Lala's knows.  No one is going to pay...no one.  Sorry, I am way too frustrated to be here. Writing my name in my own book and putting me on the "list".  Someone has to encourage me or I am giving up. 

[Peaches]

Lalas, get a hold of yourself!  As much as we would like to see justice in the here and now, there is always a chance we won't.  I am counting on justice in the hereafter for everyone involved.  It will happen. 

As for justice now, all is not lost.  The main suspect is still in jail.  You can't crawl inside Hans' head to know what he's got up his sleeve.  It better be more than his arm or I'm going to be annoyed. 

Patience.  We've hung in there this long. 

[oldfart]

Hey ... It's not over...   MOS has had a little different look at the playing filed  and rules bieng used.  Will just have to wait and see how he chnages his game plan..

Oh Hi Monkeys....
Coffee... black & strong please 

[Getagrip]

You know, trying to figure out what things mean out of Aruba is an exercise in futility. Nothing, NOTHING, they have done from the very beginning has made sense, so I've quit thinking along the lines of 'well, they wouldn't do that unless...'

The only thing that has made sense is Mos coming out and facing the media interest head on, albeit within the confines of their laws (of what he can and cannot say) and that should have been done 2.5 years ago. That's what I was saying from the beginning. Sure, we have to understand their laws, but they had to understand 'our' interest in this case too, and they failed to listen and to adapt - it's a two way street. Instead, they compounded the problem and gave the case the legs that made it the grand fiasco it has become.

I admire all of you who have had the patience to follow this along until its resolution. I couldn't do it (yet, here I am back for more). I personally will only believe that they have something if and when they bring charges, at which point the information they have will become public.

Until then, I will continue to believe that Joran and possibly one or two of the Kalpoes have gotten away with murder, based on what I know, and that their justice system has failed miserably. I couldn't care less about pre-trial detentions, I care about a trial. So, bring it on - or just shut up!

[Buckeye]

As far as I can tell, Dop Kruimel was or is a spokesperson for prosecutor.  She was or currently is a presenter on some show on SBS6.  There was talk that the media was a big consideration this time so Mos brought Kruimel on board..... my translations could be totally off   

[blah]

Nope.  I refuse this time to think Joran will be any different. K2 drove off with Natalee in the car...now they aren't guilty of anything but hiding or abusing a corpse?   Get real here!  What makes anyone think Joran is any different.  Hell!  He was only in the back seat.  I am not getting my hopes up ever again...the K2 will not pay...Joran will not pay.  I have no faith in their system...it's broken (expletive deleted).  Mos can wish all he wants and think this is going to work this time...but Paulus isn't sweating and Anita isn't worried.

Shango knew. Simian knew.  They tried to tell us that you can't get these guys...they left us hints..they told us things we didn't want to believe.  Now, Lala's knows.  No one is going to pay...no one.  Sorry, I am way too frustrated to be here. Writing my name in my own book and putting me on the "list".  Someone has to encourage me or I am giving up. 

Dave and Beth have not given up and they need you.  Natalee is everyones little sister and there is a brave group of heros on their way to Aruba as we speak to bring here up from the cold, dark ocean floor and bring her back to Alabama where she belongs.  Do we all even realize that these men might not even make it home for Christmas?  I dont see them turning their boat around because of some jerk from Curacao. At the very least, we can still stick around to support the men on that ship.

You are free to do as you wish but please, do not base your decisions to give up and some crap written by Simian and Shango - where the hell are they NOW?  Alot has changed since their last posts.  There is a whole new battle going on since the time they posted and I dont see them doing anything to help anymore.

[msmarple]

klaas - What I am saying about Art Wood's letter in Diario, is that it was published in Pap, and also, the first two paragraphs were published in Diaro in English. However, the jump to the rest of the English version brings up a blank page.

My security scan is running right now and my computer runs too slow to try check back, but I expect the link will be fixed some time today.

[MuffyBee]

Many monkeys are wondering why Deepak and Satish are getting out of jail, even though it is strongly suspicioned that they took part in helping with the cover up and disposal of Natalee's body.  I know many saw that it doesn't seem much time would be served for such things, even if and when they may be convicted.  Was it 3 years?  Sorry, don't have link.  What I am getting at is something that happened here in Texas, where Laura Hall helped Colton Pitonyak  dismember Jennifer Cave, whom Pitonyak had killed, and then drove Pitonyak to Mexico to escape. She got very little punishment - FIVE YEARS and is eligible for parole.  For dismemberment!  Here is the link:

http://www.kvue.com/news/local/stories/112807kvuehall-bkm.46a9d71c.html

[Helen Back]

It is true that Joran is already one his second 8 day extension, correct?

That must mean that they have presented more evidence to keep him in jail?

Do we know if the judge the judge that let the K's out it the same judge that approved Jorans seconds 8 day extension?

Do we know any of the judges names this time around?

I recall either Mos or Jossy, I think it was Mos, saying it was the same judge.

this is the 3rd different answer to this question.

I guess what that means is they are trying to keep us confused as to which judge is doing what.

I dont blame them.  If I were a corrupt judge, i'd do the same thing.

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- Two of the suspects being held in connection with Natalee Holloway's presumed death will be released from custody by Saturday.

Prosecutors wanted Deepak and Satish Kalpoe held in Aruba for another eight days, but a judge rejected their request Friday.

The decision was "a bit of a setback," said Hans Mos, Aruba's chief public prosecutor. But it does not change his plan to decide by the end of the year whether to prosecute anyone in the Holloway case.

"We had hoped for a longer period to confront these suspects with the material we have against them, but this is the way the law says it must go," Mos said. Watch the prosecutor's reaction »

Holloway's parents are expected to meet with Mos on Saturday. The prosecutor said he will explain to them what happened, "if I can explain it. I hope I can."

Deepak Kalpoe's defense attorney, meanwhile, said his client is "really happy to recover his freedom after 10 days in jail."

Prosecutors have three days to appeal the decision and will decide Monday whether or not to do so.

A third man, Joran van der Sloot, is still being held in the case. Van der Sloot is set to appear before a judge December 7, and prosecutors have said they are considering requesting that he be detained another 60 days.

The Kalpoe brothers were previously jailed in the case, but were rearrested last week and charged with being involved in the "voluntary manslaughter" of Holloway.

The judge reasoned Friday that "the new evidence, together with the existing evidence in this case, produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting, of covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse," prosecutors said.

But people accused of those crimes do not qualify for pretrial detention under Aruban law, Mos told reporters. He noted that on Monday, the same judge approved van der Sloot's continuing detention based on the same evidence.

"Apparently, the judge sees a difference between the third suspect and these two suspects," Mos said, since the judge concluded the evidence against the Kalpoes was not strong enough to warrant their continued detention.

When the arrests took place November 21, prosecutors said they had new incriminating evidence against the three men.

They were the last people seen with Holloway, 18, as she left an Oranjestad nightclub on May 30, 2005. She was on a trip to Aruba with about 100 classmates celebrating their graduation from Mountain Brook High School in suburban Birmingham, Alabama. See a timeline of the case »

have maintained their innocence in her disappearance.

The Kalpoes have told police they dropped Holloway and van der Sloot off near a lighthouse on the northern tip of the island after they left the nightclub. Van der Sloot's mother, Anita, has said her son told her he was on the beach with Holloway but left her there because she wanted to stay.

Mos has told CNN he believes authorities have enough evidence to prove Holloway is dead, even if her body is never found. He has suggested her death was an accident.

The new evidence against the three men was gathered from advanced techniques used to re-examine existing information, including cell phone records and text messages exchanged the night Holloway disappeared, Mos has said.

Investigators also returned to the homes of the suspects to try to re-create transmissions. The team also discovered that some existing evidence was improperly analyzed.

Defense attorneys for the Kalpoes and van der Sloot have said the prosecutors' evidence is flimsy. "To say it's less than nothing is too much," van der Sloot's lawyer, Ariean de Bie, told CNN.

In Aruba, authorities can make an arrest if they have reasonable suspicion that someone knows about or is involved in a crime. Magistrates investigate cases, and judges determine a suspect's guilt or innocence. There are no jury trials.

Good morning all, and thanks for the article from CNN.  Very good explanation except for one thing.  Mos, in his first interview, very specifically said they don't believe Natalee's death was the result of an accident.   Voluntary manslaughter.

[Buckeye]

The one thing that I am going on is that this is pretty big Dutch news. 

Most comments at Dutch sites are similar to ours.  There are more comments about the corruption on the islands (and some think they should not get involved).

Most think Dutch punishment is very lenient, in general. 

I just think, the more eyes, with sentiment for Natalee and her family, the more accountable they need to be. 

I envision Dutch editorials related to the outcome: corruption in police or judiciary etc.  They seem to want Peter DeVries to finish the case....he seems to be the one that uncovers the "corruption".