Natalee Case Discussion #698 11/30/2007

[NYC_lover]

There was an article in todays paper and in one paragraph it said the following:

"It says Prosecutor Dop Kruimel said she hasn't decided whether to appeal the decision to release the men." 

Who is Dos Kruimel I never heard of her before and is she the one actually going to court and presenting the case to the judge.  I would think a case this big you would have your so called bigs guns handling it.

San  Sorry to say that NYC_lover posted the other day and compared this bod to KJ!!!!

MumInOhio - Do I have post something wrong?

No..  could you please post what you did the other day about Dop Kruimel.
Thanks in advance.

Sure, was it about herself or about the Dutch/Aruba law?

[Lala'sMom]

Okay, I will shut up.  I am still hanging in there...but gosh, darn it!  This is hard to do. 

it was that beating from oldfart wasnt it???

 

I was afraid the whip would be next! 

[MumInOhio]

There was an article in todays paper and in one paragraph it said the following:

"It says Prosecutor Dop Kruimel said she hasn't decided whether to appeal the decision to release the men." 

Who is Dos Kruimel I never heard of her before and is she the one actually going to court and presenting the case to the judge.  I would think a case this big you would have your so called bigs guns handling it.

San  Sorry to say that NYC_lover posted the other day and compared this bod to KJ!!!!

MumInOhio - Do I have post something wrong?

No..  could you please post what you did the other day about Dop Kruimel.
Thanks in advance.

Sure, was it about herself or about the Dutch/Aruba law?

Herself...I think there was a pic..  Thanks

[oldfart]

Okay, I will shut up.  I am still hanging in there...but gosh, darn it!  This is hard to do. 

Lala's its going to get harder.
Unless MOS is planning charging a lot of people with  "conspiracy in the destruction of clues of a crime and or disposal of a body"

Oh chit... O/T my play list just played http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQE9E3M98I
If it happens to come up when I'm in Natalee's thread I tend to get 

Sorry for being O/T
BBL

[NYC_lover]

Herself...I think there was a pic..  Thanks

Ok, here it's!

This is the second Karin Janssen!! SBS TV babe.... Dom Kruimel Public prosecutor in Amsterdam

This is Dop Kruimel!

Dop Kruimel presenteert samen met Leo de Later het programma "Meldkamer", op SBS6. Meer informatie hierover staat op www.sbsmeldkamer.nl

Dop Kruimel is officier van justitie van het arrondissement Amsterdam.
http://www.tvbabes.com/presentatrices/dop.html

[Getagrip]

Common Court rejects appeal of D.K.’s Lawyer in the Holloway case
Maintains majority of restrictions against J.v.d.S.
http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2007/12/common-court-rejects-appeal-of-d.html

DIARIO Aruba

12/01/2007

ORANJESTAD(AAN)—Yesterday, the Common Court of Justice decided upon two separate appeals that were handed down for the lawyers of suspects D.K. and J.v.d.S. in the Holloway case. D.K. and J.v.d.S. are suspected, along with the third suspect S.K., in the death of Natalee Holloway, or in any case, mistreatment which led to her death.

Yesterday, these appeals were dealt with behind closed doors. In the case against D.K., the judge-commissioner gave an order, upon the request of the Public Ministry, to deny the lawyers of Kock, Wix and Zeppenveldt access to the suspect D.K. for a duration of eight days. Until now, the lawyers of Kock, Wix and Zeppenveldt have represented the K. brothers as a team.

The Public Ministry asked for this order based on the suspicion that D.K. could be obtaining information related to the investigation that they have against him or that the investigation to get to the truth could be impeded.

This suspicion was based on information from police reports that support the theory that some time ago, D.K. spoke to his brother S.K. in relation to their standing in the investigation. On this basis, the Public Ministry observed that the suspects were adjusting their declarations to fit each others’. This, along with the fact that both suspects were represented by the same team of lawyers, made the Public Ministry request the order.

The judge-commissioner went along with the Public Ministry’s [legal] arguments and gave the order that the three lawyers may not visit their client D.K. The lawyers appealed this decision at the Common Court. Currently, they only represent S.K. Upon the request of the aforementioned lawyers, D.K. is being represented by another lawyer since last week.

The Common Court decided today that the order of the judge-commissioner has its place and rejected the lawyer’s appeal. In the meantime, the judge-commissioner extended the term mentioned by 8 more days. In the case against J.v.d.S. it was asked of the Common Court to alleviate the restrictions against him (no contact with people other than his lawyer, no telephone, no letters, no newspapers, no magazines and no television).

They specifically asked for visits (his mother and brother, another lawyer and friends), a bible and other reading materials, and exercise. In the meantime, KIA, upon the request of the Public Ministry, provided a bible and reading material. The Common Court rejected the appeal against the restrictions yesterday, in the interests of the investigation.

[MumInOhio]

NYC_lover BBL...Is she a prosecutor or press person or both? When I search google I see both!!!! I think you said she is like Karen Janssen!!!

[Puzzler]

Is it also true that JQK is on the island?

If true, this makes me feel good.  No ones pulling any bullshit past John.

It was posted last night that he was.

Judges Jossy said there are 2 judges, one for Joran and one for the Kalpoes but still no names. It was posted last week, from Pearl at BFN, that Judge Smid is one of them. There is a photo of the judge leaving the courthouse yesterday, but as we haven’t a photo of Judge Smid, we still don’t know which case he is hearing. Would feel much better if I knew that one of the other judges and not Judge Smid was hearing Joran’s case. I don’t understand why they are being so secretive about the judges.

Pita..Thanks for bringing Ramm's posts over.

I thought it was said these were two new judges that no one knew, that were chosen because they were supposed to be impartial?!

I'm reading all this about two judges (which makes sense to me; three would have made better sense); however, would someone please listen to this copy of Mos press conference yesterday, toward the end, I believe he says the same judge.  I've listened to this three times now and it seems to me like he's saying "same judge" two different time.  It's is response to a question a female reporter asks him (you can hear her question real good).
I would appreciate another monkey(s) telling me what they hear (so I don't continue to feel like I'm going crazy)   


I think I hear Mos say that he sees the same judge in the same position with the other suspect and same evidence the judge kept the suspect over for 8 more days; Mos thought the judge would keep the 2 suspects an additional 8 days, too.  Mos said the judge must see differences between the evidence looking at it for the 1 suspect vs. looking at it for the 2 suspects.

Hmmm....same evidence, same judge, different opinions


Could it be that there was the same judge in Aruba and the second judge is the judge Joran had in Holland?


http://tinyurl.com/2287fj

Here's where I heard it (close to the end).  Maybe you can listen to it and see if you hear the same thing that I "think" I heard.  I listened to it two times, but Mos does have a little difficulty with some expressions (or I have difficulty understanding Mos  .  If you get a chance to listen to it, please let me know what you think.



.

[sandy leiva]

The purpose of the arrest was not to force them into a confession and have them turn on one another.

It was to give them a choice to either stick with their old lies or make up new ones before going to trial.

So how is that going to look? If they they have to explain why they were lying up until November 30th 2007? And if they change their stories at the trial, they will be asked why they didn't provide that information during the investigation only a few months earlier.

So nothing has changed except Hans Mos has brought them in to establish their lies from two years ago.

This is a pre-trial situation. And what is important to remember this time around is the post-trial lock up.

1) pre-trial (Mos isn't showing all his cards)

2) establishes lies from 2 years ago

3) goes to trial

4) establishes case against them, which will include lies right up to the trial

I like what you're saying, Islander. Makes sense.

I dont get why yall say pre trial. Aruba has no trials. prosecuter brings the evidence judge decides.  they say there is no trial.

[private eye]

Hello good folks. I admit I haven't read all of the pages so I hope I am not being redundant. Maybe I am being over optimistic, but what I hear from the Aruban court may not be bad news. I am hoping this group is informed enough to evaluate my perspective, and that I am brave enough to post my interpretation:)

The court released the 2 brothers NOT because they were innocent and not because of a lack of evidence, but because the crime of which the evidence suggests they are guilty is that of illegally disposing of a body. The reason being that in order to continue the pre arrest the crime that the evidence supports has to be punishable by a sentence of 4 years, and this particular crime is punishable by a maximum sentence of 3 years. Is this correct?

[Tylergal]

There was an article in todays paper and in one paragraph it said the following:

"It says Prosecutor Dop Kruimel said she hasn't decided whether to appeal the decision to release the men." 

Who is Dos Kruimel I never heard of her before and is she the one actually going to court and presenting the case to the judge.  I would think a case this big you would have your so called bigs guns handling it.

San, I have seen that name a couple times over the past few days.  I would think this person is female, is going to put the human face on Natalee for judges.  Sometimes it is hard for us to see that the best prosecutors are not the "prosecutor" himself but his worker-bees.  A perfect example of that here in Alabama is the name of Bill Baxley who prosecuted the bombings of the black churches in Alabama.  At the time I was a neighbor of Bill Baxley.  The person who really did the work and got the perps prosecuted was George Beck, someone who died his work and kept a low profile.  His boss got the credit but all of us who knew anything about the prosecution were ware that George Beck, whose name was mentioned once or twice in the papers, was the "real prosecutor" who put the human face on the children who were killed  in these church bombings and brought justice about after more than a decade, who was able to put these evil people behind bars and 2 of them have died in prison.  That is the kind of prosecution we need here.

[NYC_lover]

NYC_lover BBL...Is she a prosecutor or press person or both? When I search google I see both!!!! I think you said she is like Karen Janssen!!!

MumInOhio - She is both. I want to say, she look like Karin Janssen.

[Observer]

Puzzler:
He Said The same judge in the same position with the same material made a positive decision on Joran 2nd 8 days but not the Kalpoes. Apparently the Judge see's a difference between K2 and Joran.

[klaasend]

Hello good folks. I admit I haven't read all of the pages so I hope I am not being redundant. Maybe I am being over optimistic, but what I hear from the Aruban court may not be bad news. I am hoping this group is informed enough to evaluate my perspective, and that I am brave enough to post my interpretation:)

The court released the 2 brothers NOT because they were innocent and not because of a lack of evidence, but because the crime of which the evidence suggests they are guilty is that of illegally disposing of a body. The reason being that in order to continue the pre arrest the crime that the evidence supports has to be punishable by a sentence of 4 years, and this particular crime is punishable by a maximum sentence of 3 years. Is this correct?

Not sure about the 4yr sentance part but YES, you are correct.

[Puzzler]

There was an article in todays paper and in one paragraph it said the following:

"It says Prosecutor Dop Kruimel said she hasn't decided whether to appeal the decision to release the men." 

Who is Dos Kruimel I never heard of her before and is she the one actually going to court and presenting the case to the judge.  I would think a case this big you would have your so called bigs guns handling it.

San, I have seen that name a couple times over the past few days.  I would think this person is female, is going to put the human face on Natalee for judges.  Sometimes it is hard for us to see that the best prosecutors are not the "prosecutor" himself but his worker-bees.  A perfect example of that here in Alabama is the name of Bill Baxley who prosecuted the bombings of the black churches in Alabama.  At the time I was a neighbor of Bill Baxley.  The person who really did the work and got the perps prosecuted was George Beck, someone who died his work and kept a low profile.  His boss got the credit but all of us who knew anything about the prosecution were ware that George Beck, whose name was mentioned once or twice in the papers, was the "real prosecutor" who put the human face on the children who were killed  in these church bombings and brought justice about after more than a decade, who was able to put these evil people behind bars and 2 of them have died in prison.  That is the kind of prosecution we need here.

In Greta's interview with Mos, Mos said he had an assistant and that "she" was doing a good job.  That "she" must be Dop.

[klaasend]

NYC_lover BBL...Is she a prosecutor or press person or both? When I search google I see both!!!! I think you said she is like Karen Janssen!!!

Hans MOS said he was overseeing the case but that someone else in his office was prosecuting it.  That must be Dop Kruimel.

[Slogger]

Hello good folks. I admit I haven't read all of the pages so I hope I am not being redundant. Maybe I am being over optimistic, but what I hear from the Aruban court may not be bad news. I am hoping this group is informed enough to evaluate my perspective, and that I am brave enough to post my interpretation:)

The court released the 2 brothers NOT because they were innocent and not because of a lack of evidence, but because the crime of which the evidence suggests they are guilty is that of illegally disposing of a body. The reason being that in order to continue the pre arrest the crime that the evidence supports has to be punishable by a sentence of 4 years, and this particular crime is punishable by a maximum sentence of 3 years. Is this correct?

Whether or not it's correct, that's my interpretation, too.

We don't know the evidence presented for suspicion of "voluntary manslaughter."  It's said to be the same as that presented for Joran.  So, it is mysterious why the Judge would ruled differently for the Kalpoes--if it was the same Judge.

[klaasend]

O/T

CHRISTMAS ITEMS ARE NOW READY FOR PURCHASE IN CAFEPRESS. SEE MY SIGNATURE LINE FOR THE LINK.

[Tylergal]

Hello good folks. I admit I haven't read all of the pages so I hope I am not being redundant. Maybe I am being over optimistic, but what I hear from the Aruban court may not be bad news. I am hoping this group is informed enough to evaluate my perspective, and that I am brave enough to post my interpretation:)

The court released the 2 brothers NOT because they were innocent and not because of a lack of evidence, but because the crime of which the evidence suggests they are guilty is that of illegally disposing of a body. The reason being that in order to continue the pre arrest the crime that the evidence supports has to be punishable by a sentence of 4 years, and this particular crime is punishable by a maximum sentence of 3 years. Is this correct?

That's what some of us have been screaming! but some not listening. 

[private eye]

IF MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE COURTS DECISION IS CORRECT, then it is possible and according to Mo's plan that Joran is being held for involuntary manslaughter, etc and that the 2 brothers helped him dispose of the body. This can be corroborated with the transcript of the boys taped conversation in the police vehicle as a plausible scenario. What also makes me feel that this may be on target is that RU still isn't celebrating in the fashion one may expect if the boys were freed per se