Natalee Case Discussion #698 11/30/2007

[Tylergal]

Chris Lejuez (SP) said the punishment for the disposal of a body and evidence in Aruba is a maximum of 3 years.

So you can get 3 years if you cover up a killing and 15 years if you don't. Sounds like the law if telling you to cover it up.

Spock, I respect you very much and have always followed your posts here and at BFN but recently it seems either I am not understanding your posts or there is something missing. 

Covering up someone else's crime is 4 years (or 3 years as some have stated).  Committing the crime is 15 years.  Would you prefer the one who committed the crime get 3 years and the ones who covered it up get 15 years?   Help me understand what you are saying.

[private eye]

Paulus can be charged with illegally disposing of a corpse, regardless of who caused Natalee to become a corpse. He cannot be charged with advising his son or forced to testifying against his son, unless he used his official position to advise his son.

[Tamikosmom]

call me crazy
but i still have faith in MOS 

Robots ... I have no faith that justice will come out of Aruba.  Hans Mos may be sincere but he is lacking in an indept knowledge of Dutch law as it pertains to what evidence is sufficient to warrant continued detention of a suspect. The defence lawyers were adament right up Joran and Deepak's release that the prosecutor's evidence was insufficient and ... the defence lawyers were right ... their contentions and the judge's reasoning for his ruling were one.

That being said ... I still have faith that justice for Natalee Holloway will prevail ... ultimately good always triump evil.

Galatians 6:7
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows

Robots ... maybe ... just maybe ... God's instrument to attain that outcome will be none other than ... an investigation by the FBI into the corrupt Aruban investigation.

Have a good day.

Janet

+++++++++++++++

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html

Hans Mos
CNN
November 30, 2007

The judge reasoned Friday that "the new evidence, together with the existing evidence in this case, produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting, of covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse," prosecutors said.

But people accused of those crimes do not qualify for pretrial detention under Aruban law, Mos told reporters.


Art Wood
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 1, 2005

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation.

Janet,

I must take exception with the statement that Mr. Mos is lacking an in-depth understanding of Dutch law regarding the evidence his office has presented.   I think we should consider that it's a delicate balance between presenting enough to keep them detained, and not revealing much of the evidence they have.  They Kalpoes have been given an opportunity to clarify their depositions from 2 1/2 years ago, and have also had the opportunity to tell the truth about what happened that night.

If they didn't take the opportunity, the hole they have dug gets a little deeper.  We don't know what Mos is holding back, and unlike US law, where all information must be shared with the opposition party, my understanding is that Mos can hold evidence to reveal at the trial without having shared it with the defense.

I also understand that the judges who make pre-trial rulings are not the same judges who will preside at the trial.

Someone please correct me if this is not the case.

Helen

In my opinion ... Something is not right.  Both prosecutors in the Natalee Holloway case have been unable to get it right .... unable to determine what sufficient evidence is required to hold the main suspects in detention.  Helen ... the "balance" has been elusive to both Janssen and Mos or ... the judges are manipulating/disregarding Dutch law in their favorable rulings.

Janet

+++++++++


http://sendtofriend.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3912737

Hans Mos
ABC NEWS
November 26, 2007

Hans Mos, Aruba's chief prosecutor, told ABC News he believes the the new evidence makes the case against the three men stronger than it was two years.

"We are convinced if we had had this evidence we have now they would not have been released by the court at that time," Mos said.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313168,00.html

Hans Mos
On the Record with Greta
November 27, 2007

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Breaking news from Aruba, Joran van der Sloot ordered to stay behind bars for at least eight more days. Now, the Kalpoe brothers already got the same news last week. Now, all three suspects were re-arrested. Why? The prosecutor has now charged all three with voluntary manslaughter of Natalee Holloway.

MOS: And this decision to re-arrest these three suspects was a decision taken by 10 lawyers, by 10 lawyers sitting around a table (INAUDIBLE) whole afternoon, being presented the new material.

[blah]

No matter how much Paulus is involved in cover up, obstruction, etc. he is not prosecutable unless he was a participant in the original crime.

He is immune from prosecution as a first degree relative of the one main suspect.

I do not believe this, how can this be?

Are you basing this on just the word of Arlene?

If this is true, there is absolutely no way i'm going anywhere in the "Dutch Kingdom" again because that is one really screwed up system.

Well, maybe NYC or Ramm will elaborate on this aspect a bit.  It is my understanding and what Arleen said several times. 

Mos cannot re-write the laws to tailor them to this case and they are what they are.

I don't care whether or not you believe me as I am used to being called a liar on this forum but in the end the truth usually proves me right.  And you know it, too, Blah.

So why has Paulus not been arrested in YOUR opinion since you know better?

I am not/would not ever call you a liar.

I said I dont believe it because I dont believe the source (arlene).  I dont know NYC, but I also dont question the credibility of this Ramm guy.

I do not know why Paulus has been arrested yet thats why asked if it is due to his crimes dont meet the qualification of 4+ years max penalty or whatever they are telling us this time.


"since you know better?"
dont you start getting an attitude with ME now Dutchie!!!!
 

[islanders]

AGAIN THIS IS IF MY UNDERSTANDING IS CORRECT,  Joran was held for 16 days vs the boys 8 days concerning the pre arrests

I'm not sure about this. I thought an appeal was denied during the fist 8 days.





 

[robots]

No matter how much Paulus is involved in cover up, obstruction, etc. he is not prosecutable unless he was a participant in the original crime.

He is immune from prosecution as a first degree relative of the one main suspect.

I do not believe this, how can this be?

Are you basing this on just the word of Arlene?

If this is true, there is absolutely no way i'm going anywhere in the "Dutch Kingdom" again because that is one really screwed up system.

Well, maybe NYC or Ramm will elaborate on this aspect a bit.  It is my understanding and what Arleen said several times. 

Mos cannot re-write the laws to tailor them to this case and they are what they are.

I don't care whether or not you believe me as I am used to being called a liar on this forum but in the end the truth usually proves me right.  And you know it, too, Blah.

So why has Paulus not been arrested in YOUR opinion since you know better?

I am not/would not ever call you a liar.

I said I dont believe it because I dont believe the source (arlene).  I dont know NYC, but I also dont question the credibility of this Ramm guy.

I do not know why Paulus has been arrested yet thats why asked if it is due to his crimes dont meet the qualification of 4+ years max penalty or whatever they are telling us this time.


"since you know better?"
dont you start getting an attitude with ME now Dutchie!!!!
 

there, see everything is all better

 

[Frank]

Arlene and Ramm both have no credibility, at all!

[NYC_lover]

No matter how much Paulus is involved in cover up, obstruction, etc. he is not prosecutable unless he was a participant in the original crime.

He is immune from prosecution as a first degree relative of the one main suspect.

I do not believe this, how can this be?

Are you basing this on just the word of Arlene?

If this is true, there is absolutely no way i'm going anywhere in the "Dutch Kingdom" again because that is one really screwed up system.

Well, maybe NYC or Ramm will elaborate on this aspect a bit.  It is my understanding and what Arleen said several times. 

Mos cannot re-write the laws to tailor them to this case and they are what they are.

I don't care whether or not you believe me as I am used to being called a liar on this forum but in the end the truth usually proves me right.  And you know it, too, Blah.

So why has Paulus not been arrested in YOUR opinion since you know better?

Anna - about what kind of thing, can I help? About, why Paulus van der Sloot get no an arrested? And about the jail-sentence of 3 -years for J2K?
I have to take a shower, I will brb.

[blah]

I am not/would not ever call you a liar.

I said I dont believe it because I dont believe the source (arlene).  I dont know NYC, but I also DO question the credibility of this Ramm guy.

I do not know why Paulus has been arrested yet thats why asked if it is due to his crimes dont meet the qualification of 4+ years max penalty or whatever they are telling us this time.


"since you know better?"
dont you start getting an attitude with ME now Dutchie!!!!
 

Fixed my typo up there. 

[NYC_lover]

Arlene and Ramm both have no credibility, at all!

Blah and Frank are u mean, Arlene Schippers? Or however I write her name.

[blah]

there, see everything is all better

 

thats it, where is that switch oldfart had earlier........



 

[blah]

Arlene and Ramm both have no credibility, at all!

oh I agree, I just typed it wrong up there !!!!! 

[Tylergal]

This may have been posted already but it's the first time I have seen it. It's just a Dutch Blogger commenting on Joran's BS after his book tour 


http://ongeletterdeboer.blogspot.com/

 

[Tamikosmom]

No matter how much Paulus is involved in cover up, obstruction, etc. he is not prosecutable unless he was a participant in the original crime.

He is immune from prosecution as a first degree relative of the one main suspect.

I do not believe this, how can this be?

Are you basing this on just the word of Arlene?

If this is true, there is absoltuley no way i'm going anywhere in the "Dutch Kingdom" again because that is one really screwed up system.

I believe that the following words of Arlene Ellis-Schipper is the reason that Paulus was not detained last week at the same time as Joran, Deepak and Satish.

Janet

+++++++++++++++


Arlene Ellis-Schipper
'The Abrams Report'
June 30, 2005

ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: Well basically obstruction of justice is a criminal offense in our criminal code. However, there is an exoneration for family members in the first degree. So in the case of Mr. Van der Sloot it would not apply.

[blah]

Arlene and Ramm both have no credibility, at all!

Blah and Frank are u mean, Arlene Schippers? Or however I write her name.

YES !

[NYC_lover]

I am not/would not ever call you a liar.

I said I dont believe it because I dont believe the source (arlene).  I dont know NYC, but I also DO question the credibility of this Ramm guy.

I do not know why Paulus has been arrested yet thats why asked if it is due to his crimes dont meet the qualification of 4+ years max penalty or whatever they are telling us this time.


"since you know better?"
dont you start getting an attitude with ME now Dutchie!!!!
 

Fixed my typo up there. 

What does this mean? About who again is this? dont you start getting an attitude with ME now Dutchie!!!!

[Helen Back]

Arlene and Ramm both have no credibility, at all!

Agreed.  So I delete from what we have and look at the rest.

[wreck]

No matter how much Paulus is involved in cover up, obstruction, etc. he is not prosecutable unless he was a participant in the original crime.

He is immune from prosecution as a first degree relative of the one main suspect.

I do not believe this, how can this be?

Are you basing this on just the word of Arlene?

If this is true, there is absolutely no way i'm going anywhere in the "Dutch Kingdom" again because that is one really screwed up system.

Well, maybe NYC or Ramm will elaborate on this aspect a bit.  It is my understanding and what Arleen said several times. 

Mos cannot re-write the laws to tailor them to this case and they are what they are.

I don't care whether or not you believe me as I am used to being called a liar on this forum but in the end the truth usually proves me right.  And you know it, too, Blah.

So why has Paulus not been arrested in YOUR opinion since you know better?

Anna - about what kind of thing, can I help? About, why Paulus van der Sloot get no an arrested? And about the jail-sentence of 3 -years for J2K?
I have to take a shower, I will brb.

I always feel I need a shower too when Paulus is mentioned!

[Anna]

I got your attitude, right here, Blah!

 

If Paulus actually physically handled a corpse and improperly disposed of it, that might could be a crime but if done in the act of covering for his son, I doubt it would be prosecuted.

Abuse of a corpse is not considered a very serious crime as we have seen from the photos of dragging them about, leaving them lying open and uncovered in the streets like animals, etc.  The Dutch would say they are not superstitious about a corpse the way Americans are in my opinion of how they/we think.

You might need to take an extra blood pressure pill for all this, Blah.  It's gonna get worse before it gets better.

Keep hoping and praying that search is successful as that would clinch a conviction.  We don't even have Joran convicted on manslaughter yet.  He could be released, too, ya know.

I don't like any of this, either.  But it is what it is.  We have to at some point accept the reality that this is not being tried in our court system.  And daily I am thankful for that system we have.

.

[blah]

I am not/would not ever call you a liar.

I said I dont believe it because I dont believe the source (arlene).  I dont know NYC, but I also DO question the credibility of this Ramm guy.

I do not know why Paulus has been arrested yet thats why asked if it is due to his crimes dont meet the qualification of 4+ years max penalty or whatever they are telling us this time.


"since you know better?"
dont you start getting an attitude with ME now Dutchie!!!!
 

Fixed my typo up there. 

What does this mean? About who again is this? dont you start getting an attitude with ME now Dutchie!!!!

Dutchie = my friend Anna. 

You have nothing to worry about NYC_lover, no one is questioning you or giving you a hard time.