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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #698 11/30/2007  (Read 234049 times)
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Tylergal
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« Reply #700 on: December 01, 2007, 12:42:13 PM »

No matter how much Paulus is involved in cover up, obstruction, etc. he is not prosecutable unless he was a participant in the original crime.

He is immune from prosecution as a first degree relative of the one main suspect.



I do not believe this, how can this be?

Are you basing this on just the word of Arlene?

If this is true, there is absoltuley no way i'm going anywhere in the "Dutch Kingdom" again because that is one really screwed up system.

Blah, this law is similar to ours whereas a spouse is not asked to testify against the other, but it goes further by allowing any participation in the commission of crime if it was to help cover the crime by said relative to go unpunished, but I am sure there are limits to even that law, and probably there is something that Paulus can be charged with but I think Mos is looking to something bigger, perhaps any participation he may have in racketeering or mob activity.  We know Paulus is involved in something far bigger than this crime against Natalee, be it the most heinous crime, but ... we cannot prove it. 

It's like love, it's hard to describe but we know it when it happens and we know Paulus is involved in something large; otherwise, thus, the Refugee site set up to defend him and his ilk.  It attracts some of the most bizarre and obviously shallow groupies on the internet.
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Anna
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« Reply #701 on: December 01, 2007, 12:43:16 PM »


I am not/would not ever call you a liar.

I said I dont believe it because I dont believe the source (arlene).  I dont know NYC, but I also DO question the credibility of this Ramm guy.

I do not know why Paulus has been arrested yet thats why asked if it is due to his crimes dont meet the qualification of 4+ years max penalty or whatever they are telling us this time.


"since you know better?"
dont you start getting an attitude with ME now Dutchie!!!!
 Wink

Fixed my typo up there. 


What does this mean? About who again is this? dont you start getting an attitude with ME now Dutchie!!!!

Not you, NYC!  Blah picks on me because I am Dutch-American and he is a mean old man.

I was wondering if you could explain why it is not a crime for a first degree relative to assist one who has committed a crime.  I don't think Paulus will be charged for assisting Joran but some do.

.
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Anna
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« Reply #702 on: December 01, 2007, 12:47:24 PM »

Exactly, Tyler.

And while Paulus is not the brightest bulb on the tree (Anna using festive, Christmas analogy) he is smart enough to go just so far and no more.  For example, he might help Joran arrange for disposal but not actually handle the corpse to skirt being charged with illegal disposal.

Clever if stupid.

.
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
igsigs
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« Reply #703 on: December 01, 2007, 12:48:53 PM »

NYC -  RTL4 appeal news?   TIA!
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Anna
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« Reply #704 on: December 01, 2007, 12:50:41 PM »

Have to go work and need to leave before I give BLAH a stroke!

Will BBL for was hoping to learn something of the outcome of Beth's meeting with Mos today.  We need to concentrate on the positives of this and the fact they may be garnering information as to where to search for Natalee and not the things that can't be done under this system!

If they can find Natalee, then that is the greater success than all the prosecutions in the world.  The parents have said at one time or another, just give her back.  That would just mean so much more than socking away these jerks.

Yes, I want Joran convicted for what he did.  We have a long way to go to get to even that but finding Natalee would make it all worthwhile for me.

.
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
blah
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« Reply #705 on: December 01, 2007, 12:50:58 PM »

Say hello to my little friend







Theres yer mean old man!!

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Anna
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« Reply #706 on: December 01, 2007, 12:52:52 PM »

Say hello to my little friend







Theres yer mean old man!!




You MISSED!  I'm still here, haha.

.
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Tylergal
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« Reply #707 on: December 01, 2007, 12:53:17 PM »

There are some things that still haunt me about this case and simplifying it is easy but then those "not so simple" things come back to haunt me. 

Some are the behavior of Joran with his parents.  He seems to be assuring them that he is going to take care of them by patting Anita on the head, as a child would do a small pet or as we recall from days of integration, the way a slave holder would pat his favorite slave on the head as if to say he/she was going to be taken care of.

Then there are the statements of Joran where he always infers he is doing this for his family, he is doing what they would want him to do, he is suffering for them.

Then Deepak's statement of "your own dad, unbelievable."  At that point, Joran seems to bristle and tells him he is doing this for his daddy.  Joran reminds them they are responsible for his daddy going to jail.

Then there is the picture of Paulus at the casino near Natalee.

The biggest question of all, "Why did they drug her?"  Why did they feel it was necessary to drug Natalee if they were going to take her out, Joran was simply going to court her and hopefully have sex with her.  There is something here that still makes me suspicious that Paulus is involved in the arranging, the drugging and raping of Natalee.
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Observer
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« Reply #708 on: December 01, 2007, 12:54:41 PM »

Paulus can be charged with illegally disposing of a corpse, regardless of who caused Natalee to become a corpse. He cannot be charged with advising his son or forced to testifying against his son, unless he used his official position to advise his son.

He already waived his right not to testify vs his Son. I'M not sure what that all means but he should have given up the "Family Privlage" BS where he can lie and obstruct the Investigation as well. I am very happy Mos has mentioned PVDS as being involved but I can't be confident there will be justice until I see PVDS in cuffs again.




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"I lied and thats the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot
blah
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« Reply #709 on: December 01, 2007, 12:54:45 PM »

Have to go work and need to leave before I give BLAH a stroke!

Will BBL for was hoping to learn something of the outcome of Beth's meeting with Mos today.  We need to concentrate on the positives of this and the fact they may be garnering information as to where to search for Natalee and not the things that can't be done under this system!

If they can find Natalee, then that is the greater success than all the prosecutions in the world.  The parents have said at one time or another, just give her back.  That would just mean so much more than socking away these jerks.

Yes, I want Joran convicted for what he did.  We have a long way to go to get to even that but finding Natalee would make it all worthwhile for me.

.

dont let the door hit ya.....








take yer little robot buddy with ya......





and come back when you cant stay so long..........



 
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Anna
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« Reply #710 on: December 01, 2007, 12:55:24 PM »

Tyler,

What they actually were able to DO and what they intended to do may have been two very different things entirely.

Done it 20 times before and all that needs it's own investigation IMO.

.
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
klaasend
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WWW
« Reply #711 on: December 01, 2007, 12:55:54 PM »

SIMPLISTIC COMPARISON

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Tylergal
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« Reply #712 on: December 01, 2007, 12:56:10 PM »

There are some things that still haunt me about this case and simplifying it is easy but then those "not so simple" things come back to haunt me. 

Some are the behavior of Joran with his parents.  He seems to be assuring them that he is going to take care of them by patting Anita on the head, as a child would do a small pet or as we recall from days (crap) before integration, the way a slave holder would pat his favorite slave on the head as if to say he/she was going to be taken care of.

Then there are the statements of Joran where he always infers he is doing this for his family, he is doing what they would want him to do, he is suffering for them.

Then Deepak's statement of "your own dad, unbelievable."  At that point, Joran seems to bristle and tells him he is doing this for his daddy.  Joran reminds them they are responsible for his daddy going to jail.

Then there is the picture of Paulus at the casino near Natalee.

The biggest question of all, "Why did they drug her?"  Why did they feel it was necessary to drug Natalee if they were going to take her out, Joran was simply going to court her and hopefully have sex with her.  There is something here that still makes me suspicious that Paulus is involved in the arranging, the drugging and raping of Natalee.
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JusticeforNatalee
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« Reply #713 on: December 01, 2007, 12:57:39 PM »

I, too, would like clarification on the "first degree relative" issue.
I was under the impression that Paulus could get away with lying for Joran.

But could he really get away with more than that under Dutch law?
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"My client, Joran van der Sloot, played a MAJOR ROLE in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway."       
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Anna
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« Reply #714 on: December 01, 2007, 12:58:07 PM »

If you can bear to hear the truth when spoken. . . then you will be a man, my son. . . .Poem IF by Rudyard Kipling which I suggest Blah read post haste.

You might also try Tai Chi, Blah.

And don't worry, I will be back this afternoon some time to further yur edification.

.
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Ebb
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« Reply #715 on: December 01, 2007, 01:00:22 PM »

Things that still bother me:
Yes, Tygergal. The casino photo with Paulus.
The witnesses who came forward about being raped by Joran.
Guido charged with 'heavy battery'
that aviation guy who was questioned repeatedly
Stephanie Croes/Loco Stefy's zorpia site, now gone
The DEA presence in Aruba
  and then the cartel arrests last March was it?
Amy Bradley similarities
Posner vanishing (and turning up in Detroit running a pet photo mobile)

ebb
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blah
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« Reply #716 on: December 01, 2007, 01:00:55 PM »

If you can bear to hear the truth when spoken. . . then you will be a man, my son. . . .Poem IF by Rudyard Kipling which I suggest Blah read post haste.

You might also try Tai Chi, Blah.

And don't worry, I will be back this afternoon some time to further yur edification.

.

you might try GFY for starters
 Wink
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NYC_lover
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The Mercedes GL


« Reply #717 on: December 01, 2007, 01:01:55 PM »

NYC -  RTL4 appeal news?   TIA!

Igsigs - Yes RTL4 news report: OM Aruba goes in appeal, to the Kalpoes.
http://www.rtl.nl/(/actueel/rtlnieuws/criminaliteit/articleview/)/components/actueel/rtlnieuws/2007/12_december/01/criminaliteit/1201_0800_Beroep_broers_Holloway-zaak.xml
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I am glad hear this media attention from the Netherlands. ‘Recherche verdraait informatie te vaak’
Investigators in a black breach and again a bad name of the Dutch police. It smells again to Corrpution and a negative researching in missing persons cases
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« Reply #718 on: December 01, 2007, 01:03:25 PM »

Arlene and Ramm both have no credibility, at all!

Blah and Frank are u mean, Arlene Schippers? Or however I write her name.

YES !

Ok Frank, thanks!
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I am glad hear this media attention from the Netherlands. ‘Recherche verdraait informatie te vaak’
Investigators in a black breach and again a bad name of the Dutch police. It smells again to Corrpution and a negative researching in missing persons cases
Observer
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« Reply #719 on: December 01, 2007, 01:04:11 PM »


Despite being separated by state lines, cousins Rachel Allison (right) and Natalee Holloway (center) were together for all the holidays and special visits in the summer. At left is their cousin, Phillisha Holloway.

On visits to Jonesboro, Ark., Natalee Holloway (left) would go down to the river with her cousin, Rachel Allison.

By the time they could walk, cousins Natalee Holloway (left) and Rachel Allison already were fast friends.



Rachel Allison, Natalee's cousin speaks

Baylor basketball's Rachel Allison lives with the memory of her missing cousin, Natalee Holloway

Friday, November 30, 2007

By Jerry Hill

**There are pictures at that website.

Not a day goes by that Rachel Allison doesn’t think of her cousin. And cry.

Nearly 2 1/2 years later, it’s still painful for the Baylor University junior basketball player even to talk about the mysterious disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

The Alabama teenager was discovered missing on May 30, 2005, when she didn’t show up for her return flight on a graduation trip to Aruba.

As first cousins separated by state lines, Allison and Holloway were close growing up. But “we had made all these plans that when we got older we were going to try to live closer to each other, because we didn’t get to see each other enough growing up,” Allison said.

“She was my only first cousin and the only girl that was my age on either side of the family,” said Allison, 20, who grew up in Jonesboro, Ark. “All the major holidays were spent together, and she’d come down to Arkansas in the summer, and we’d go to the river. In the summers, we’d call each other a lot.”

Even if she wanted to, Allison couldn’t get away from the tragic story.

On Nov. 21, Joran van der Sloot from the Netherlands and Surinamese brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe were rearrested on suspicion of involvement in Holloway’s death. Although her body never has been found, Aruban officials believe she was kidnapped and murdered.

“People will say something like, ‘Oh, that happened three years ago, Rachel, you should be over it by now.’ ” Allison said.

“Well, maybe I would be if it wasn’t in the news every single day. And I have to hear my family talk about it, because it’s obviously something going on in our lives and something we’re having to deal with.”

Unfulfilled plans

A two-time all-state high school basketball and volleyball player, Allison decided to leave her family roots and signed with Baylor over scholarship offers from Arkansas, Arkansas State, Mississippi, Louisiana Tech, Colorado, Texas A&M and Vanderbilt. Her mother, father and brother had played intercollegiate sports at Arkansas State in her hometown of Jonesboro.

But it was a happy day when Allison “got dropped off for college” in late May 2005, just before the start of Baylor’s first summer session.

“I think it was the summer before I got here, and (Natalee) had just found out about me going to Baylor,” Allison said. “And she’s like, ‘I’m so proud of you. I can’t wait to watch you play next year. I’ve told all my friends you’re going to Baylor. I’ve got some friends going to Baylor. I’m going to come see you all the time.’ ”

Within a matter of days of Allison’s arrival at Baylor, though, the family received the news of Holloway’s disappearance.

After graduating from Mountain Brook High School, located in an upscale suburb of Birmingham, Ala., Holloway joined 124 fellow students for a five-day trip to Aruba.

Not on return flight

According to police reports, Holloway was last seen leaving Carlos ’n Charlie’s bar and grill in Oranjestad at about 1:30 a.m. with van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers. When Holloway did not show up for her return flight later that day, her passport, packed luggage, camera and cell phone were found in her hotel room.

Linda Allison, Rachel’s mother, joined a massive search party that summer that included thousands of volunteers, Texas EquuSearch, Aruban and Dutch soldiers, police and FBI agents. Linda Allison’s brother, Dave Holloway, is Natalee’s father.

“My mom was in Aruba all summer, so I didn’t even see her,” Allison said. “And I was going home almost every weekend, so it was difficult. It’s difficult now.”

Away from home for the first time, Allison said there were nights “where I would come home and just lay on my bed and cry.”

She was the lone outsider in a campus apartment that housed fellow freshmen Jhasmin Player, Jessica Morrow and Tricia Abbott, who were all from the Houston area and had played together for years on the same AAU basketball team.

“As you can imagine, I had no one here to talk to, because I had just met my roommates. I didn’t really know any of them,” Allison said.

But that summer was when she also found out how supportive a team can be. Even a team full of strangers.

“Bernice (Mosby), Sophia (Young), they all took care of me,” Allison said. “So it was nice, right off the bat, to see how your team comes together. And they didn’t even know me. But they knew what was going on, so they were very supportive.

“All the girls were great.”

‘Just hope and pray’

Through her own pain, Allison also marveled at what a “rock” her mom has been.

“She’s been there for my uncle, 100 percent, the whole time,” Rachel said. “They all went to Aruba that summer to help look, and then she’s been down to Mississippi to see him. She’s done interviews. She’s just a wonderful lady.”

Linda Allison and Rachel’s dad, Tim Allison, rarely miss games in Waco and will travel up to eight hours for road trips to Big 12 Conference games. But there were anxious moments the last two years, when Allison and the Lady Bears played at tournaments in Mexico and the Bahamas.

“They would talk to the coaches before and be like, ‘Keep an eye on Rachel,’ ” she said. “But the chances of something like that happening are very slim.”

But as Allison and her family know all too sadly, it can happen. They’ve lived through the nightmare.

And even though the Aruban officials believe Holloway is dead, without a body there has been no closure for Allison or anyone else close to Natalee Holloway.

“Not really,” Allison said. “You just hope and pray.”

http://tinyurl.com/3cllq2
« Last Edit: December 01, 2007, 01:14:38 PM by Observer » Logged

"I lied and thats the truth"--Joran Van Der Sloot
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