Natalee Case Discussion #699 12/1 - 12/3/2007

[Anna]

The Prosecutor in Dutch law is supposed to be neutral, not an advocate for either the victim or the defendant or suspect but a purveyor of justice.

HA!  That's a good one for considering KJanssen in the role of suspect advocate instead of for the victim at all.  There seems to be no one who is an advocate for victims.  That's why sixteen years old girls have to move away after being gang raped with the evidence on the cell phone and internet messages of the culprits!  No crimes against society seem to exist in these regards and unless the victim fights for themselves, they basically have no real voice other than this sham of a DA whose position is supposed to remain neutral.

Even that would be an improvement over Janssen who was clearly an advocate for the defense.

.

[Tylergal]

On many occasions, Dan Riehl mentioned that Paulus not only wants to sue all stated by Stom, but bloggers as well.  Tacopino was obviously the attorney who put this in his head, because it was about the time that Rizzo came up in the conversation.  I am sure Observor and Anna will recall that as well.

[Stom]

Hey Shango!  Yes you!  Tell us...

Who is Dirty Hand?  It's time to spit it out...don't be like your buddy Simian and remain silent any longer...email me at cindoal@yahoo.com.  Tell me who he is. I am waiting. 

Hi Lala's.  For what is worth, Fierljepper at Scrux, says Dirty Hands is Ben Vocking.  He also states that Vocking is not Dutch, but has retired in the Netherlands.  I wonder if this is true and if so, where he's really from.  How are you planning to verify if the real Shango replies to you? 

I'd bet I could verify it 

I bet you could if Shangie really lives in Florida and he writes to you.  But given that he only posted for 4/5 days, I always believed he was temporarily in Florida, and when back in Aruba mutated into two different "cells":  one born in Aruba to Dutch parents, a member of AHATA, with permanent residence in the USA, the other born in the Netherlands, member of AHATA too, with residence in Aruba.

Best of luck Lala's... you have the best verifier available.

[Spock]

Posted by new member Merkus in the previous thread:

I am new here, but I have followed the board intermittently for a while.  I agree with those who think this prosecutor is the real deal.  I do not think he and his current team are involved or engaged in a cover-up. 

Does anyone know the length of sentence for sexual assault under Dutch law?   Is it typically longer than the more than 3 years requirement for pretrial detention under Dutch law?  Has there been specific reliable reporting about whether the Kalpoes admitted to sexual assault during their first round of detention a couple of years ago (or has the reporting been that they admitted to sexual relations with her with no admission of assault)?

Thanks in advance for any information.

Merkus, not sure about sexual assault but we have heard the voluntary manslaughter carries 7-8 (correct me if I'm wrong here) years so would not require pre-trail release like the Kalpoe ruling. I have never heard that the Kalpoes admitted any sexual assault to the police or judges. Steve Cohen did say two of the suspects admitted to having sex with her, but if they had admitted assaulting her forcefully they would have been charged back then, providing the police didn't tear up the statement.

Deepak stated in an email to a friend of his on that sunday or monday morning, that "the girl had put her hands down his pants". he was confronted with this in an interrogation and said he "made that up".

[Tylergal]

Posted by new member Merkus in the previous thread:

I am new here, but I have followed the board intermittently for a while.  I agree with those who think this prosecutor is the real deal.  I do not think he and his current team are involved or engaged in a cover-up. 

Does anyone know the length of sentence for sexual assault under Dutch law?   Is it typically longer than the more than 3 years requirement for pretrial detention under Dutch law?  Has there been specific reliable reporting about whether the Kalpoes admitted to sexual assault during their first round of detention a couple of years ago (or has the reporting been that they admitted to sexual relations with her with no admission of assault)?

Thanks in advance for any information.

Merkus, not sure about sexual assault but we have heard the voluntary manslaughter carries 7-8 (correct me if I'm wrong here) years so would not require pre-trail release like the Kalpoe ruling. I have never heard that the Kalpoes admitted any sexual assault to the police or judges. Steve Cohen did say two of the suspects admitted to having sex with her, but if they had admitted assaulting her forcefully they would have been charged back then, providing the police didn't tear up the statement.

Deepak stated in an email to a friend of his on that sunday or monday morning, that "the girl had put her hands down his pants". he was confronted with this in an interrogation and said he "made that up".

I am not sure of the particular Caribbean paper that ran it, but before they were arrested, either of them, they all three said they had had consensual sex with Natalee, and if memory serves, that was also stated to the Mt Brook party.

[klaasend]

Hey Shango!  Yes you!  Tell us...

Who is Dirty Hand?  It's time to spit it out...don't be like your buddy Simian and remain silent any longer...email me at cindoal@yahoo.com.  Tell me who he is. I am waiting. 

Hi Lala's.  For what is worth, Fierljepper at Scrux, says Dirty Hands is Ben Vocking.  He also states that Vocking is not Dutch, but has retired in the Netherlands.  I wonder if this is true and if so, where he's really from.  How are you planning to verify if the real Shango replies to you? 

I'd bet I could verify it 

I bet you could if Shangie really lives in Florida and he writes to you.  But given that he only posted for 4/5 days, I always believed he was temporarily in Florida, and when back in Aruba mutated into two different "cells":  one born in Aruba to Dutch parents, a member of AHATA, with permanent residence in the USA, the other born in the Netherlands, member of AHATA too, with residence in Aruba.

Best of luck Lala's... you have the best verifier available.

STom - But I know what email addresses Shango and Simian used.  IF they used the same and especially if the IP was the same we could more or less assume a match.

[Anna]

On many occasions, Dan Riehl mentioned that Paulus not only wants to sue all stated by Stom, but bloggers as well.  Tacopino was obviously the attorney who put this in his head, because it was about the time that Rizzo came up in the conversation.  I am sure Observor and Anna will recall that as well.

Yes, in their fantasy world, these people seem to hear about somebody receiving $3 million from McDonald's over spilled coffee and so they think anything is possible in the good old U.S. of A. 

Deepak's suit is the result of this kind of magical thinking I do believe and must be financed by something like AHATA.  Well, this is really going to throw that in the crapper because how can he sue Dr. Phil when the Aruban Prosecutor is saying worse things about Deepak than Dr. Phil did?

And now I wonder if AHATA will pay for the costs that will result from this and the sanctions Dr. Phil is asking for from this suit.  Will they pay that or stick the Kalpoes with it or what exactly?  Just totally default and have outstanding judgment against the Kalpoes for twenty years?

But I do think Deepak's suit was a sort of trial balloon for further actions and the rest of those jerks trying to get rich off the crimes of their devil spawn.  Doesn't get much lower than that.

.

[Lala'sMom]

Hey Shango!  Yes you!  Tell us...

Who is Dirty Hand?  It's time to spit it out...don't be like your buddy Simian and remain silent any longer...email me at cindoal@yahoo.com.  Tell me who he is. I am waiting. 

Hi Lala's.  For what is worth, Fierljepper at Scrux, says Dirty Hands is Ben Vocking.  He also states that Vocking is not Dutch, but has retired in the Netherlands.  I wonder if this is true and if so, where he's really from.  How are you planning to verify if the real Shango replies to you? 

I know who Shango is.

[klaasend]

Posted by new member Merkus in the previous thread:

I am new here, but I have followed the board intermittently for a while.  I agree with those who think this prosecutor is the real deal.  I do not think he and his current team are involved or engaged in a cover-up. 

Does anyone know the length of sentence for sexual assault under Dutch law?   Is it typically longer than the more than 3 years requirement for pretrial detention under Dutch law?  Has there been specific reliable reporting about whether the Kalpoes admitted to sexual assault during their first round of detention a couple of years ago (or has the reporting been that they admitted to sexual relations with her with no admission of assault)?

Thanks in advance for any information.

Merkus, not sure about sexual assault but we have heard the voluntary manslaughter carries 7-8 (correct me if I'm wrong here) years so would not require pre-trail release like the Kalpoe ruling. I have never heard that the Kalpoes admitted any sexual assault to the police or judges. Steve Cohen did say two of the suspects admitted to having sex with her, but if they had admitted assaulting her forcefully they would have been charged back then, providing the police didn't tear up the statement.

Deepak stated in an email to a friend of his on that sunday or monday morning, that "the girl had put her hands down his pants". he was confronted with this in an interrogation and said he "made that up".

I am not sure of the particular Caribbean paper that ran it, but before they were arrested, either of them, they all three said they had had consensual sex with Natalee, and if memory serves, that was also stated to the Mt Brook party.

It was AM Digital and if you hold on a bit I'll get a copy for you

[Magnolia]

OMG! I've heard you guys mention RU several times, so I thought I'd look it up and see what it was....WHAT is wrong with those people?????? Is that where Joran and K2's family and friends go to talk to each other or what??!! It made me sick. I hope none of those idiots ever have a loved one go missing........wow...

Oh, and someone was asking if Magnolia was here.....I haven't seen her, but I'll watch the local Birmingham news at ten and let you guys know if they say anything about the meeting with Mos.


Michele

Evening all!
I just got here.  I am fearful that the reporter on Aruba has been pulled back to AL.
Just speculating...but it has sorta looked that way.  I haven't heard anything all day, but must admit that I have not watched anything but football.

[Dayhiker]

On many occasions, Dan Riehl mentioned that Paulus not only wants to sue all stated by Stom, but bloggers as well.  Tacopino was obviously the attorney who put this in his head, because it was about the time that Rizzo came up in the conversation.  I am sure Observor and Anna will recall that as well.

Tell him he will need to provide discovery (see Dr. Phil) and appear on the witness stand, and taking the Fifth is out in civil trials. He is off on a bad foot, the Dutch court ruled he is a liar and Hans Mos just said he is certain Paulus is involved.

[Stom]

Going back to the discussion in the previous thread, I don’t believe Areian (Airean?) de Bie’s comment about Holloway-Twitty connections with the White House is a meaningless, isolated comment.  I think it is tied to the “unofficial” official position of pointing to Mountain Brook, the recent anti-victim, anti-family Amigoe articles and Joe Tacopina’s continued involvement as Joran’s “US attorney”.  

Joran no longer needs a US attorney in the US, because the lawsuits against him were dismissed.  Joran doesn’t need a US attorney in Aruba, because this lawyer is unable to practice law there.  So why does he continue to use Joe Tacopina?  Joe Tacopina loves the opportunity of free media exposure, but I doubt that is all there is to it.  

I often wonder if AHATA and the Van der Sloots have signed a Pactum de Quota Litis with Tacopina, because they foresee an opportunity to initiate proceeding against the Holloway-Twittys, some media outlets and others in an American court of law in which the plaintiffs, AHATA and/or the Van der Sloots, pursue nominal and compensatory damages, respectively.

This may sound far fetched, but i wouldn't put it past them.

If they did that they might as well drop a bomb on that island because the end result will be the same. 

I agree, but I think it is possible than someone may have agreed to procure compensation eventually, under the assumption that sooner or later, JvdS would be deleted from the suspect list and the case would be dismissed.

[Lala'sMom]

The real Shango is not in Florida... he never was...only his hands were there to type the riddles...do you guys think I just read all that crap and not give it any thought?

[chelebele]

OMG! I've heard you guys mention RU several times, so I thought I'd look it up and see what it was....WHAT is wrong with those people?????? Is that where Joran and K2's family and friends go to talk to each other or what??!! It made me sick. I hope none of those idiots ever have a loved one go missing........wow...

Oh, and someone was asking if Magnolia was here.....I haven't seen her, but I'll watch the local Birmingham news at ten and let you guys know if they say anything about the meeting with Mos.


Michele

Evening all!
I just got here.  I am fearful that the reporter on Aruba has been pulled back to AL.
Just speculating...but it has sorta looked that way.  I haven't heard anything all day, but must admit that I have not watched anything but football.

Hey Magnolia! I think you're right...local news only reported on K2's being released, nothing about Beth or Dave.

[Dayhiker]

On many occasions, Dan Riehl mentioned that Paulus not only wants to sue all stated by Stom, but bloggers as well.  Tacopino was obviously the attorney who put this in his head, because it was about the time that Rizzo came up in the conversation.  I am sure Observor and Anna will recall that as well.

Yes, in their fantasy world, these people seem to hear about somebody receiving $3 million from McDonald's over spilled coffee and so they think anything is possible in the good old U.S. of A. 

Deepak's suit is the result of this kind of magical thinking I do believe and must be financed by something like AHATA.  Well, this is really going to throw that in the crapper because how can he sue Dr. Phil when the Aruban Prosecutor is saying worse things about Deepak than Dr. Phil did?

And now I wonder if AHATA will pay for the costs that will result from this and the sanctions Dr. Phil is asking for from this suit.  Will they pay that or stick the Kalpoes with it or what exactly?  Just totally default and have outstanding judgment against the Kalpoes for twenty years?

But I do think Deepak's suit was a sort of trial balloon for further actions and the rest of those jerks trying to get rich off the crimes of their devil spawn.  Doesn't get much lower than that.

.

There are very strong suspicions AHATA is behind the Kalpoe lawsuit. The whole idea started in the Aruba business community.

If they aren't behind it I would suggest Deepak and Satish will spend the rest of their lives paying attorney fees.

[klaasend]

[Dayhiker]

If they did that they might as well drop a bomb on that island because the end result will be the same. 

I agree, but I think it is possible than someone may have agreed to procure compensation eventually, under the assumption that sooner or later, JvdS would be deleted from the suspect list and the case would be dismissed.

Intelligence has never been one of their virtues.

[Anna]

If anyone should be filing lawsuits, it is the hapless tourists lied to about the lack of crime in Aruba when we see it constantly in their own newspapers.

Every tourist who has gone there in the past five years has likely been told that whopper about no crime, one murder in last twenty years or some outrageous lie about how safe Aruba is.

A class action lawsuit for false advertising would be more appropriate than trying to sue bloggers or other people for defaming a named suspect in killing a tourist.

[Stom]

The real Shango is not in Florida... he never was...only his hands were there to type the riddles...do you guys think I just read all that crap and not give it any thought?

It has been repeated over and over that he posted from FL, but I accept it's possible that he did have a VPN, posted from a provider outside of the US with a server in Florida or wrote the comments in conjunction with someone that was in Florida at the time.

[Observer]

On many occasions, Dan Riehl mentioned that Paulus not only wants to sue all stated by Stom, but bloggers as well.  Tacopino was obviously the attorney who put this in his head, because it was about the time that Rizzo came up in the conversation.  I am sure Observor and Anna will recall that as well.

There are very strong suspicions AHATA is behind the Kalpoe lawsuit. The whole idea started in the Aruba business community.

If they aren't behind it I would suggest Deepak and Satish will spend the rest of their lives paying attorney fees.

Why would AHATA risk enormous amounts of money on the Kalpoe Brothers? Are they paying for Joe Tacopina's huge Attorney costs also?