Natalee Case Discussion #699 12/1 - 12/3/2007

[klaasend]

OK,  someone refresh my memory, please? Monday evening was what day in relation to the night she went missing?

Were Beth and Jug on the island Monday evening?

Monday, May 30, 2005 - Natalee was seen getting into the car with JK2 at approx 1am

Monday, May 30, 2005 - Beth and Jug arrived in Aruba and starting looking for Joran.  At approx 3am (5/31/05) Beth and Jug arrived at the Sloot home but Joran was not there, was supposed to be at the casino per PVDS.  After going to the casino, Joran calls PVDS and says he's home.  Beth says Joran didn't look like he was dressed for a casino.

[crazybabyborg]

Thank you, Wreck.

[klaasend]

So, it's entirely possible that instead of at any casino, Joran + Deepak + ? were in the process of disposing of Natalee's body at the time Beth and Jug arrived in Aruba.

[crazybabyborg]

Thank you too, Klaas!

I was trying to figure out how the calls to Joran from Paulus, after Jug and Beth arrived, fit in. I was also remembering Jug's statement that if he had it to do over again, he would have just blocked Deepak's car in until someone opened the trunk.

[Blue Moon]

Could the boat be in the vacinity now and ready to search?  Seems really strange that all info was removed to be reviewed.  I know it is suppose to take 7-10 days for the trip but could they be there now (left early) and have started the search?  Just thinking out loud on this.

[Spock]

The Judge could not make the link between the killing and the destruction of evidence, so he released the kalpoes. I hope Mos files the appeal, at least that way three Judges will have to rule on releasing the Kalpoes.

[Lala'sMom]

Blue Moon
I am going to ask you a question now... Why did they arrest those particular 2 security guards?  Of all the people they had to choose from, there were more than just these two that worked as security  in that location...why were these two guys chosen?  Anyone have any idea? 

I believe the 2 security guards were arrested and put in there to help the police to monitor what J2K were blabbing in jail.  JMO but I do believe they could not take a chance of having those boys talking to anyone so they placed the guards (probably paid off to do this) in cells next to them to account for anything they might say.

Here is my answer to your question posted earlier.

Thanks. I saw your answer earlier...I tend to agree...my only question is why were these 2 the most likely to yield to coercion by ALE in order to accomplish this goal?

[Blue Moon]

Blue Moon
I am going to ask you a question now... Why did they arrest those particular 2 security guards?  Of all the people they had to choose from, there were more than just these two that worked as security  in that location...why were these two guys chosen?  Anyone have any idea? 

I believe the 2 security guards were arrested and put in there to help the police to monitor what J2K were blabbing in jail.  JMO but I do believe they could not take a chance of having those boys talking to anyone so they placed the guards (probably paid off to do this) in cells next to them to account for anything they might say.

Here is my answer to your question posted earlier.

Thanks. I saw your answer earlier...I tend to agree...my only question is why were these 2 the most likely to yield to coercion by ALE in order to accomplish this goal?

Maybe because they Were seen hanging around the kids or maybe taking something of theirs.  If the police had something on them then would have been easy to bring them in and make them cover for the boys by listening to them and relaying what was said by them. OR maybe Paulus set them up so they could protect the three (J2K) while in jail/prison.

[Lala'sMom]

So, it's entirely possible that instead of at any casino, Joran + Deepak + ? were in the process of disposing of Natalee's body at the time Beth and Jug arrived in Aruba.

Deepak's car was inside the fence when the "handlers" first found Joran's house.  By the time, everyone got organized and things arranged and the DEA agent had spoken to Charles Croes...the car in question was moved.  hmmmmm

[Dayhiker]

In 40 degree water a person will be lucky to live one hour before they die of hypothermia. In 32 degree water under 15 minutes. Even in 60 degree water temp you will die in 6 hours.

BTW, refrigerators are usually set at 40 degress or below to sufficiently slow bacterial growth. Salt in the water also acts as a preservative.

Well, yes, I sort of knew that about refrigeration and salt, but was wondering what the temperatures were in the Caribbean as opposed to the Atlantic, Pacific, etc.

Was just throwing that out there for general consumption, Tyler. The closer to the equator the warmer the water, but judging from that chart after you get down to a certain level this diminishes quickly.

[MuffyBee]

Blue Moon
I am going to ask you a question now... Why did they arrest those particular 2 security guards?  Of all the people they had to choose from, there were more than just these two that worked as security  in that location...why were these two guys chosen?  Anyone have any idea? 

I believe the 2 security guards were arrested and put in there to help the police to monitor what J2K were blabbing in jail.  JMO but I do believe they could not take a chance of having those boys talking to anyone so they placed the guards (probably paid off to do this) in cells next to them to account for anything they might say.

Here is my answer to your question posted earlier.

Thanks. I saw your answer earlier...I tend to agree...my only question is why were these 2 the most likely to yield to coercion by ALE in order to accomplish this goal?

Hadn't the 2 security guards been working at a hotel near the Holiday Inn where Natalee was supposedly dropped off by J2K?  IIRC the two security guards were laid off because the hotel was closed for remodeling?  And I am thinking back.  There was discussion at one time that perhaps Deepak had crossed the paths of the two security guards previously.  Shoot, it's been such a long time, but I remember some of the bit of discussion.

[Tylergal]

Posted by Glenda at Ru:

You mean the fisherman who didn't report a crab trap stolen although that is the premise for the Million Dollar Search for Natalee. Did I read here that the owner of the boat was quoted saying her remains would still be intact because the water is sooo cold. What is the definition of Cold? Because this water is like a warm bathtub.

Question for Glenda:  When was the last time you dove to 1000 feet? 

Just to let everyone know I will be on the Crime And Punishment Radio show accross Canada tonight at 9:30pm et approx discussing the Holloway case.
For those of you not in Canada you can pick up the net feed of the show at http://www.cjob.com/ or leave comments at www.mikeoncrime.com
I believe there is a toll fee number you can call in during the show.
Now a favor can someone email me a timeline of events, it doenst have to be pages, i just want to make sure my dates are accurate.

Im not sure how long I will be on but I will try and cover as much as I can.

Dana

Thanks Dana - I'll be sure to tune in!

Are you going to send Dana the time line?  Please.

[Dayhiker]

So, it's entirely possible that instead of at any casino, Joran + Deepak + ? were in the process of disposing of Natalee's body at the time Beth and Jug arrived in Aruba.

Deepak's car was inside the fence when the "handlers" first found Joran's house.  By the time, everyone got organized and things arranged and the DEA agent had spoken to Charles Croes...the car in question was moved.  hmmmmm

Ever seen the three suspects queeried about Deepak's car being behind the fence at the Sloot residence 2:00 am in any of their statements? None we've seen. I'll bet that hasn't gone unnoticed by Mos and the Dutch investigators. Or maybe they did ask them and it's in the missing statements because they didn't want to incriminate them. I would like to see what they say about such an important piece of evidence.

[Tylergal]

OK,  someone refresh my memory, please? Monday evening was what day in relation to the night she went missing?

Were Beth and Jug on the island Monday evening?

Monday eveningish-Tuesday morningish.  She went to C&C on Sunday night, left on Monday morning.  Beth was there within 24 hours of her leaving C&C.  Does that help?

[Kat_Gram]

" Glenda " at RU is not an expert in marine temperates.
Unless she is speaking of a Hot Marine. LOL
.. The owners of this equipment are the experts and and if they make such statements, then I would listen.

[Tylergal]

So, it's entirely possible that instead of at any casino, Joran + Deepak + ? were in the process of disposing of Natalee's body at the time Beth and Jug arrived in Aruba.

Exactly.

[Dayhiker]

We have not heard Greta address the judge's strong suspicions of Kalpoes "aiding and abetting in the cover-up of a serious crime and disposal of a corpse." You would think she'd like to confront Kock, Wix, and Tacoboy with that verbage. That round peg must not fit in her square hole.

[igsigs]

Regarding Joran's lawyer and wild accusations (arms dealing?) - I'm thinking that the extra page in Joran's dossier has some a little nervous.

[Dayhiker]

Thank you too, Klaas!

I was trying to figure out how the calls to Joran from Paulus, after Jug and Beth arrived, fit in. I was also remembering Jug's statement that if he had it to do over again, he would have just blocked Deepak's car in until someone opened the trunk.

They never released Paulus' telephone records but we know these exist and that he was wiretapped. Rudy Croes told us there were very suspicious phone calls between Paulus and Van der Straten in the early goings. Mayhaps this is some of the "overlooked" evidence Mos spoke of. Mos does not seem to feel the love for Paulus that the original bunch does. Am sure he has these in the file.

[Dayhiker]

Regarding Joran's lawyer and wild accusations (arms dealing?) - I'm thinking that the extra page in Joran's dossier has some a little nervous.

He is a little late to the punch on that. The Arubans would have loved to have blame this on arms dealers, insurance scams, etc. and would have a long time ago but they had no evidence indicating such things. Their own friggin' top cop said it always goes back to the three.

When your client is guilty you resort to smoke and mirrors and blaming the victim. First thing out of Greaseball's mouth was that Natalee was over the top drunk, then he had to back-peddle when he found out Joran could be charged with rape. Defense lawyers are full of bullshit.