Natalee Case Discussion #699 12/1 - 12/3/2007

[Maggie]

Anna, SB,
The best explanation re: men thinking women are against each other is a quote from Olivia Joules.

Two Types of Women


Theory was that you can divide women into two types: those who were on the Girls’ Team, and Undercover Bitches.  If a woman was on the Girls’ Team, she could be as beautiful, intelligent, rich, famous, sexy, successful and as popular as f***, and you’d still like her. Women on the Girls’ Team had solidarity. They were conspiratorial and brought all their f***-ups to the table for everyone to enjoy. Undercover Bitches were competitive: they showed off, tried to put others down to make themselves look good, lacked humor and a sense of their own ridiculousness, said things which sounded okay on the surface but were actually designed to make you feel really bad, couldn’t bear it when they weren’t getting enough attention, and they flicked their hair. Men didn’t get all this. They thought women took against each other because they were jealous. Quite tragic, really.

[Maggie]

I thought MOS was not presenting everything he had because if he did so, through rules of Discovery, he had to present everything he had to the defense. No?

[Anna]

presenting new evidence for further incarceration seems strange to me.

it appears as though prosecutor shows judge a piece of paper with evidence and has the rest of the evidence blacked out. then, at the end of the 8 day period, he shows them the blacked out section to get 8 more days.  at the end of the second 8 day period, he pulls out yet another blacked out section to get their incarceration extended. seem backwards to me.

show them the evidence, and get it on. take them to trial already !!!

I agree, it's totally ridiculous to my way of thinking.  I guess I don't like their system.  Oh well.  I would rather see it all laid out and let the judge draw his conclusions from the total rather than this piecemeal way of looking at things.  Seems like it wastes a lot of time without accomplishing much either.

Had to chime in that I, too, find this convoluted and totally unnecessary.  Show enough the first time to hold them indefinitely???

I guess without a bail system, this is supposed to let people suspected of lesser crimes or who would be eligible for bail in our system out until charges are filed or they go to trial.

Or something.  Makes no sense.

.

[Tylergal]

Ah, to be so popular that one has become the target of Refugees --- how refreshing to know I give the mentally challenged something constructive to do with their fingers.  Let them target me all they want.  It keeps them off Beth and Natalee for a while.  I have only read there 1-2 times.  It was difficult to read, crude, unintelligible except for what they had automated speech recognition transcribe and edit.

[igsigs]

And if Renfro is back to sucking up to Natalee's family - we have come full circle.

Back on laundry duty i suppose. Go light on the starch this time Fro! 

[msmarple]

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/12/3/

Beth Twitty interoga diasabra oranan largo…
RUMANNAN KALPOE A RECOBRA LIBERTAD DIASABRA ATARDI
 
Ministerio Publico ainda ta na tempo pa apela…

ORANJESTAD (AAN): DIARIO tabata presente na warda di San Nicolas y tambe na warda di polis na Shaba ora cu e dos rumannan Kalpoe a ser laga den libertad diasabra atardi.Un decision cu huez comisario staciona na Curacao a tuma despues cu no a mira mucho novedad den e evidencianan cu ministerio publico a usa pa bolbe gara e tres sospechosonan sera.

  Esaki abogadonan di e sospechosonan tambe a expresa durante entrevista cu nos tabata tin cu nan despues cu a pone man riba e tres sospechosonan.Tabata parce cu e team investigativo hunto cu expertonan Hulandes mas bien a shake up loke cu ya caba tabata tin y asina a pone man riba e tres sospechosonan cu bendicion di ministerio publico.

  Abogado Jose Figaroa a bay ten a warda di polis di Shaba pa busca su cliente mientras cu prome tabata abogado Elgin Zeppenfeld di bufete di abogadonan Kock y Wix cu a bay busca Deepak Kalpoe na San Nicolas.

   Na cas di famia Kalpoe tabata tin un cantidad grandi di prensa presente wardando nan yegada. Awor e abogado di Joran van der Sloot tambe ta pendiente pa e decision cu huez comisario lo bay tuma riba prolongacion di detencion di su cliente.

  Mientrastanto Beth Twitty mama di Natalee Holloway a yega Aruba y diasabra polis a bay buske na un hotel High Rise na Oranjestad caminda a bay cune warda di polis. Eynan el a ser interoga pa casi seis ora largo.

  E siman aki lo mira kico mas lo bay sosode relaciona cu detencion di Joran van der Sloot y si ministerio Publico lo apela awe ainda e decision di huez comisario di laga e prome dos sospechosonan den libertad.

Online Pap translation:

beth twitty interoga saturday oranan largo…
rumannan kalpoe owing to recobra freedom saturday nightfall
ministerio publico still is at time for apela…

oranjestad (aan): daily paper was present at keep of san nicolas y also at keep of police at shaba hour cu the two rumannan kalpoe owing to being let in freedom saturday nightfall.un decision cu huez comisario staciona at curacao did take after cu not owing to see mucho novedad in the evidencianan cu ministerio publico owing to using for go back grab the three sospechosonan close.

this abogadonan of the sospechosonan also owing to expresa during interview cu we was have cu they after cu owing to place hand on the three sospechosonan.tabata seems cu the team investigativo together cu expertonan dutch more bien owing to shake up thing cu already end was have y so owing to place hand on the three sospechosonan cu bendicion of ministerio publico.

advocate jose figaroa owing to bay ten owing to keep of police of shaba for busca his cliente while cu first was advocate elgin zeppenfeld of bufete of abogadonan kock y wix cu owing to bay busca deepak kalpoe at san nicolas.

at home of family kalpoe was have one cantidad big of prensa present wardando they arrival. now the advocate of joran van der sloot also is pendiente for her decision cu huez comisario will bay take on prolongacion of detencion of his cliente.

all the time beth twitty mother of natalee holloway owing to arrive aruba y saturday police owing to bay buske at one hotel high rise at oranjestad caminda owing to bay cune keep of police. eynan past owing to being interoga for casi six hour largo.

the week here will see kico more will bay sosode relaciona cu detencion of joran van der sloot y if ministerio publico will apela today still the decision of huez comisario of let the first two sospechosonan in freedom.

* * *

[Anna]

Maggie,
Great funny post on us women!

That is my understanding as well.  I once heard Mos say he would not present all the evidence until trial.

I seriously don't think Joe T gets this part.  He seems to think the pages he has at present is all there is or else is just plain lying about thinking that.

The defense has not, in my opinion, seen all of it yet as Mos has not presented it nor will he do so until bringing charges or going to trial then I think and only then does he have to do so.

Defense lawyers lying when they pretend to have all the evidence.

[Getagrip]

igsigs - next week or two? That's very optimistic. I think it'll all depend, if Joran's detention is extended for 60 days, the decision of whether or not to prosecute will be delayed as close as possible to the arbitrary 12/31 date. If Joran is also set free, then we see the charges (if any) brought sooner.

This is the best-case scenario, as I see it. However, call me cynical, but I don't expect best case scenarios out of Aruba.

The following is from today's Diario:

12.03.2007
Beth Twitty question for several hours on Saturday
Kalpoe brothers set free Saturday afternoon
Public Ministry still has time to appeal
http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2007/12/beth-twitty-question-for-several-hours.html
DIARIO Aruba
12/03/2007


ORANJESTAD (AAN): DIARIO was present at the San Nicolas and Shaba police stations when the two Kalpoe brothers were set free on Saturday afternoon. A decision that the judge-commissioner stationed in Curacao took after he didn’t see much new in the evidence the Public Ministry used to catch the three suspects again.

This is what the lawyers for the suspects also expressed during the interview they gave to us after they nabbed the three suspects. It seemed rather that the investigative team along with Dutch experts shook up what they already had and in so doing nabbed the three suspects with the approval of the Public Ministry.

Attorney Jose Figaroa went to the Shaba police station to pick up his client while at first it was attorney Elgin Zeppenfeld of the law firm Kock and Wix who went to pick up Deepak [Satish?] Kalpoe at San Nicolas.

At the Kalpoe family home there was a big quantity of media present awaiting their return. Now the attorney for Joran van der Sloot is also waiting on the decision the judge-commissioner will take on the prolongation of his client’s detention.

Meanwhile, Beth Twitty, the mother of Natalee Holloway, arrived in Aruba Saturday and police went to get her at a high rise hotel in Oranjestad and went with her to the police station. There she was questioned for six long hours.

This week will determine what will happen with the detention of Joran van der Sloot and if the Public Ministry will still appeal today the decision of the judge-commissioner that set the first two suspects free.

[casa]

I'm a little behind here and did not get to log on to read last night as I have been out of town with a sick child.  I'm assuming that someone at RU is trying to make it look as if Beth and Robin are fighting, maybe over Dave.  If this is wrong I apologize but that is what I got without having to read back.  I used to read a lot at RU but not much anymore because it only made my blood pressure go up and made me literally sick.  SO much of what they post is trash and is totally untrue.  They make up stuff just because they have decided they don't like Beth.  I know for a fact that much of what Glenda/Julia has posted is bald faced lies.  I don't know Robin or Dave as I know the other side of the family.  I certainly hope that Robin is not reaching out to RU or if she is she has a good reason.  Even if she didn't like Beth I cannot imagine her wanting to talk to those people who have trashed Natalee as they have.  Again I apologize is I have read wrong, but even if I have please know that many of those people are sick sick.  I once mentioned to my 21 year of daughter how much it upset me to read the trash they write.  She in her young wisdom told me that God would take care of evil and I cling to this inregards to those who have taken away Natalee's life and given her family and friends so much grief.  I hope everyone has a good day and pray that today will bring some good news for all who support Natalee!

[Tylergal]

Thanks a million, Geta.  I agree with you that it will be miraculous if anything good comes from Aruba, but we, like Peaches, are looking for a miracle.  God uses evil people for good, at times, and let's hope this is the time that He chooses to use them for good.  It might not be of their own doing, it could be something they are doing that is evil and He can turn that evil to good.  My hope and prayer is that he will, through Mos, who appears to be an honest prosecutor, bring forth at the time we want it, justice for Natalee and I want everyone to pray for Tim Miller and the guys and gals who are doing very dangerous and difficult work in order to assist in this miracle.

[Slogger]

And if Renfro is back to sucking up to Natalee's family - we have come full circle.

Back on laundry duty i suppose. Go light on the starch this time Fro! 

Igs, thanks for the humor.  That laundry duty was milked for more than a year.

[igsigs]

Morning Grip!

Yes, optimistic. I am considering one scenerio where OM charges instead of revealing new *evidence* at a 60 day hearing. And another where Joran is simply not cooperating during interrogations...so why wait? Of course this all assumes that there is legitimite evidence.

[BUCKSHOT]

does anyone here feel that the kalpoes were not present during the death of NH? and only guilty as stated of helping to dispose of the body? and ruin evidence?

just curious as to how everyone feels about that.....

[Peaches]

Thanks a million, Geta.  I agree with you that it will be miraculous if anything good comes from Aruba, but we, like Peaches, are looking for a miracle.  God uses evil people for good, at times, and let's hope this is the time that He chooses to use them for good.  It might not be of their own doing, it could be something they are doing that is evil and He can turn that evil to good.  My hope and prayer is that he will, through Mos, who appears to be an honest prosecutor, bring forth at the time we want it, justice for Natalee and I want everyone to pray for Tim Miller and the guys and gals who are doing very dangerous and difficult work in order to assist in this miracle.

Amen to that, Tyler!  Casa, your daughter is very wise.  God will take care of evil.  Take it to the bank.

Patience is hard to come by some days.  Giving up is not an option. 

[Peaches]

Morning Grip!

Yes, optimistic. I am considering one scenerio where OM charges instead of revealing new *evidence* at a 60 day hearing. And another where Joran is simply not cooperating during interrogations...so why wait? Of course this all assumes that there is legitimite evidence.

I like the second scenario.  I'd like to see that uncooperative attitude bite him right in the ass.

[Peaches]

does anyone here feel that the kalpoes were not present during the death of NH? and only guilty as stated of helping to dispose of the body? and ruin evidence?

just curious as to how everyone feels about that.....

Could be.  That would explain why they're not still in the pokey and the sporter is.  I think they are guilty of something, I'm just not entirely sure what all I think they're guilty of. 

[Getagrip]

Thanks a million, Geta.  I agree with you that it will be miraculous if anything good comes from Aruba, but we, like Peaches, are looking for a miracle.  God uses evil people for good, at times, and let's hope this is the time that He chooses to use them for good.  It might not be of their own doing, it could be something they are doing that is evil and He can turn that evil to good.  My hope and prayer is that he will, through Mos, who appears to be an honest prosecutor, bring forth at the time we want it, justice for Natalee and I want everyone to pray for Tim Miller and the guys and gals who are doing very dangerous and difficult work in order to assist in this miracle.

I'm all for miracles I really want to remain optimistic, but I suppose it's a self-defense mechanism (or perhaps an extensive evaluation of their track record) to expect the worst and if anything else happens, then I won't be disappointed (again).

I think I'm going to latch on to igs's and your optimism and hang on for the ride.

I just wouldn't understand how they (Aruba in general and their justice system specifically) would put themselves through this if there wasn't any substance behind it. Because if this is smoke and mirrors all over again, it would really be the last nail on the Aruba coffin.

[Slogger]

Defense Playbook (MO):

Force the Prosecution's hand.  If Joran gets out, they bolster him, prevent confession, and fully inform Joran.

If Joran doesn't get out, more evidence is revealed.

Objective:  Get the show on the road, move quickly in and out of Court....before a body is found.

'Cause otherwise, it could mean cooked goose for Christmas.

[Nut44x4]

presenting new evidence for further incarceration seems strange to me.

it appears as though prosecutor shows judge a piece of paper with evidence and has the rest of the evidence blacked out. then, at the end of the 8 day period, he shows them the blacked out section to get 8 more days.  at the end of the second 8 day period, he pulls out yet another blacked out section to get their incarceration extended. seem backwards to me.

show them the evidence, and get it on. take them to trial already !!!

That is exactly what I said the other day. This 'little here, little there does nothing to move this case along and the end result will be all three walking.
I do not understand their system  and I bet Nancy Grace (as busy as she may be at home right now) is wondering the same thing!!! JUST DO IT!!

[Nut44x4]

Ah, to be so popular that one has become the target of Refugees --- how refreshing to know I give the mentally challenged something constructive to do with their fingers.  Let them target me all they want.  It keeps them off Beth and Natalee for a while.  I have only read there 1-2 times.  It was difficult to read, crude, unintelligible except for what they had automated speech recognition transcribe and edit.

Not to mention all the disgusting photoshopped photos of Beth, Natalee and Dave. Oh yeah...real nice people over there at RU