Natalee Case Discussion #699 12/1 - 12/3/2007

[Tylergal]

I understand why JQK is keeping a low profile and advising Beth to do the same.  However, what gores my ox, sotaspeak, is Greta's collusion with Joe Tacopino, and it can be nothing more.  I see her frustration in not being able to have Beth and/or Dave and JQK on her program, but she continues to alienate not only her viewers but the prosecution side more and more.  I read at various websites, some of which have nothing to do with current events, but gardening, decorating, politics, and it seems more and more people are questioning Greta's intentions here and some have tuned her out.  When I go to other websites, I never mention that I have any interest in the case and never voice my opinion as I do not want to "poison" the spokespeople by injecting my opinion or interjecting just to see what the temperature is there from the average person.  I have found that people who once were Fox viewers exclusively are turning against Fox for Greta's defense of Joran and her outright hostility toward any other opinion save his innocence.  Many, like myself, feel the Kalpoes were involved only peripherally and that Greta is trying to help put the yoke around their necks.

[igsigs]

Defense Playbook (MO):

Force the Prosecution's hand.  If Joran gets out, they bolster him, prevent confession, and fully inform Joran.

If Joran doesn't get out, more evidence is revealed.

Objective:  Get the show on the road, move quickly in and out of Court....before a body is found.

'Cause otherwise, it could mean cooked goose for Christmas.

Yep

[robots]

I understand why JQK is keeping a low profile and advising Beth to do the same.  However, what gores my ox, sotaspeak, is Greta's collusion with Joe Tacopino, and it can be nothing more.  I see her frustration in not being able to have Beth and/or Dave and JQK on her program, but she continues to alienate not only her viewers but the prosecution side more and more.  I read at various websites, some of which have nothing to do with current events, but gardening, decorating, politics, and it seems more and more people are questioning Greta's intentions here and some have tuned her out.  When I go to other websites, I never mention that I have any interest in the case and never voice my opinion as I do not want to "poison" the spokespeople by injecting my opinion or interjecting just to see what the temperature is there from the average person.  I have found that people who once were Fox viewers exclusively are turning against Fox for Greta's defense of Joran and her outright hostility toward any other opinion save his innocence.  Many, like myself, feel the Kalpoes were involved only peripherally and that Greta is trying to help put the yoke around their necks.

BINGO

[LilPuma]

Maggie,
Great funny post on us women!

That is my understanding as well.  I once heard Mos say he would not present all the evidence until trial.

I seriously don't think Joe T gets this part.  He seems to think the pages he has at present is all there is or else is just plain lying about thinking that.

The defense has not, in my opinion, seen all of it yet as Mos has not presented it nor will he do so until bringing charges or going to trial then I think and only then does he have to do so.

Defense lawyers lying when they pretend to have all the evidence.

Joe T gets it all right.  He just doesn't want the public watching Fox News to understand it.  It's what he's being paid for.  I am certainly hoping the Prosecutor has more evidence.  As I understand "their system", they are using what evidence they have to get more info from J2K, which is why they wanted more time to chat with them.  So Mos may have more info, but not enough to go to trial; at least that's how it seems to me.  

[San]

does anyone here feel that the kalpoes were not present during the death of NH? and only guilty as stated of helping to dispose of the body? and ruin evidence?

just curious as to how everyone feels about that.....

No I feel they were present.  They saw what happened and who did it.

The prosecution is trying to make it look like they were not there to avoid other charges against them.  But they forgot about Kidnapping and Rape.  JMO

[Slogger]

Defense Playbook (MO):

Force the Prosecution's hand.  If Joran gets out, they bolster him, prevent confession, and fully inform Joran.

If Joran doesn't get out, more evidence is revealed.

Objective:  Get the show on the road, move quickly in and out of Court....before a body is found.

'Cause otherwise, it could mean cooked goose for Christmas.

Yep

(More) Defense Playbook:

Joe will slip onto the island.  His job is to apply grease to the shafts planned for the Prosecution.

Who is one step ahead?  We don't know but it's nerve rattling.

[BUCKSHOT]

does anyone here feel that the kalpoes were not present during the death of NH? and only guilty as stated of helping to dispose of the body? and ruin evidence?

just curious as to how everyone feels about that.....

No I feel they were present.  They saw what happened and who did it.

The prosecution is trying to make it look like they were not there to avoid other charges against them.  But they forgot about Kidnapping and Rape.  JMO

i kind of feel the same way - at least one of them were there when things went down.

[MumInOhio]

does anyone here feel that the kalpoes were not present during the death of NH? and only guilty as stated of helping to dispose of the body? and ruin evidence?

just curious as to how everyone feels about that.....

I believe that Deepak was there at that time and maybe others and Satish was sent home as the computer alibi. Hence 'how's the girl'. The 20 times before leads me to believe that Joran was not alone. Joran alone would have had no reason to drug Natalee.This was a group thing. I am concerned that there are 800 million reasons to distance the Kalpoes from Natalee's demise.

[San]

does anyone here feel that the kalpoes were not present during the death of NH? and only guilty as stated of helping to dispose of the body? and ruin evidence?

just curious as to how everyone feels about that.....

No I feel they were present.  They saw what happened and who did it.

The prosecution is trying to make it look like they were not there to avoid other charges against them.  But they forgot about Kidnapping and Rape.  JMO

No one takes the risk of drugging and kidnapping of an American Girl just to drop her off at a physcho friends home.  Unless the Kalpoes were truly Joran's slaves.

[BUCKSHOT]

Defense Playbook (MO):

Force the Prosecution's hand.  If Joran gets out, they bolster him, prevent confession, and fully inform Joran.

If Joran doesn't get out, more evidence is revealed.

Objective:  Get the show on the road, move quickly in and out of Court....before a body is found.

'Cause otherwise, it could mean cooked goose for Christmas.

Yep

(More) Defense Playbook:

Joe will slip onto the island.  His job is to apply grease to the shafts planned for the Prosecution.

Who is one step ahead?  We don't know but it's nerve rattling.

if joran is released later this week, you will see nothing but his defense team on the airways and spin will be in full force (downplaying evidence, criticizing the original investigation - [which is ironic, because the perpetrators, more than likely, are happy that the investigative team of 2005 screwed it up so bad for them], pumping joran up as such a good, innocent young man)

[Tamikosmom]

Let me add one thing:

I see no difference at all between how Robin deals with glenda, and how Beth deals with Greta.

Both are holding their noses and putting up with the smell in the hope they may get some help.

sb ... I respectfully disagree.

In my opinion ... the "smell" coming from Greta's direction is fresh air with the aroma of roses compared with the "stench" coming from the direction of Mark and Julia.

Beth Holloway does use Greta for a platform to further her quest for answers but ... she openly challenges Greta.  Robin Holloway openly upholds Mark and Julia and others with an Aruban agenda.

The following are Beth's challenging words to Greta in response to the Greta/Joran interview.  Beth does not argue ... she is respectful ... she takes the high road but ... she takes does take the opportunity to publicly expose the truth ... the truth that Greta was attempting coverup in her words that will be forever etched in the memories of Monkeys ... "I AM INCLINED TO BELIEVE HIM".

Janet

+++++++++++++++


Beth Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
March 21, 2006

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, you and I have spent an awful lot of time together, talked together. You know my entire staff. Was it difficult for you that we sat down with him?

TWITTY: Oh, no. No, I mean, I think that any time that we can get Joran speaking, I think that he only incriminates himself every time. And you know, I've heard his offer that he is willing to sit down with myself or with Dave or the family, and absolutely, I would do it. I would go to Holland. I'd meet him wherever he would choose to. But you know, Greta, I would have to have one polygraph expert with me because, you know, just having Joran talk without any type of repercussions — I mean, I think those days are over for him. You know, I'd like to get to the bottom of where his lies are, and I think that a polygraph expert could help do that.

[Tylergal]

does anyone here feel that the kalpoes were not present during the death of NH? and only guilty as stated of helping to dispose of the body? and ruin evidence?

just curious as to how everyone feels about that.....

I believe that Deepak was there at that time and maybe others and Satish was sent home as the computer alibi. Hence 'how's the girl'. The 20 times before leads me to believe that Joran was not alone. Joran alone would have had no reason to drug Natalee.This was a group thing. I am concerned that there are 800 million reasons to distance the Kalpoes from Natalee's demise.

Not meaning to be disagreeable with loyal Monkeys who have analyzed this from A to Izzer, but think back to some statements. 

Joran brought the Kalpoes.  He was supposed to bring 2 other people, both of whom had to work.  It was said that Natalee was seeking out 2 other girls to go out with the friends Joran may have brought.  This may all very well be true and in view of the fact that she could not find 2 other girls, Joran volunteered that they would take her back to the HI, since the night was going to be a "bust" and she could not find any girls to accompany them as "dates" for the K2.  So, I think she thought she was being chaperoned back to the HI by the 3, since the night had seemed to fall on its face.  However, they had other intentions and it is perhaps correct to assume that K2 dropped Natalee and Joran off someplace, perhaps his house, to pick up a vehicle so they went elsewhere.  K2 went home.  Joran, at some point, raped Natalee and took actions which led to her death.  At which point he needed help, he called on K2 and his father.  His father and he recruited K2 and others to dispose of Natalee's body, maybe it was just the acquisition of lobster traps or perhaps in assisting Steve Croes.  I believe it was at this point Paulus went to the bank to get the money to pay off the bifrons, whether it was Steve Croes, K2 and/or others, maybe the owner of the boat, or gas for the boat.

[NYC_lover]

It look like on a salsa-dance     

[NYC_lover]

[Slogger]

Defense Playbook (MO):

Force the Prosecution's hand.  If Joran gets out, they bolster him, prevent confession, and fully inform Joran.

If Joran doesn't get out, more evidence is revealed.

Objective:  Get the show on the road, move quickly in and out of Court....before a body is found.

'Cause otherwise, it could mean cooked goose for Christmas.

Yep

(More) Defense Playbook:

Joe will slip onto the island.  His job is to apply grease to the shafts planned for the Prosecution.

Who is one step ahead?  We don't know but it's nerve rattling.

if joran is released later this week, you will see nothing but his defense team on the airways and spin will be in full force (downplaying evidence, criticizing the original investigation - [which is ironic, because the perpetrators, more than likely, are happy that the investigative team of 2005 screwed it up so bad for them], pumping joran up as such a good, innocent young man)

Yes,  "if" that happens, it will be very hard to watch.  There will be such gagging, and we'll all need Pepto.  I'm not looking forward to the possibility, but.....

The end result is what counts.  Finding Natalee and bringing her home...counts.  We don't know what the Prosecution is doing, but...neither does the defense.  There is some comfort in that!

[JusticeforNatalee]

Tylergal: You might want to contact Greta's bosses and register a complaint.

Slogger/Igsigs: That thought crossed my mind also--the defense's strategy of trying to force the prosecution's "hand."

[BUCKSHOT]

does anyone here feel that the kalpoes were not present during the death of NH? and only guilty as stated of helping to dispose of the body? and ruin evidence?

just curious as to how everyone feels about that.....

I believe that Deepak was there at that time and maybe others and Satish was sent home as the computer alibi. Hence 'how's the girl'. The 20 times before leads me to believe that Joran was not alone. Joran alone would have had no reason to drug Natalee.This was a group thing. I am concerned that there are 800 million reasons to distance the Kalpoes from Natalee's demise.

Not meaning to be disagreeable with loyal Monkeys who have analyzed this from A to Izzer, but think back to some statements. 

Joran brought the Kalpoes.  He was supposed to bring 2 other people, both of whom had to work.  It was said that Natalee was seeking out 2 other girls to go out with the friends Joran may have brought.  This may all very well be true and in view of the fact that she could not find 2 other girls, Joran volunteered that they would take her back to the HI, since the night was going to be a "bust" and she could not find any girls to accompany them as "dates" for the K2.  So, I think she thought she was being chaperoned back to the HI by the 3, since the night had seemed to fall on its face.  However, they had other intentions and it is perhaps correct to assume that K2 dropped Natalee and Joran off someplace, perhaps his house, to pick up a vehicle so they went elsewhere.  K2 went home.  Joran, at some point, raped Natalee and took actions which led to her death.  At which point he needed help, he called on K2 and his father.  His father and he recruited K2 and others to dispose of Natalee's body, maybe it was just the acquisition of lobster traps or perhaps in assisting Steve Croes.  I believe it was at this point Paulus went to the bank to get the money to pay off the bifrons, whether it was Steve Croes, K2 and/or others, maybe the owner of the boat, or gas for the boat.

this could be true.

a strong connection ties the kalpoes to joran. no one seems to be able to figure it.
if such a strong connection did not exist, i feel the kalpoes would have flipped on the vandersloot family a long time ago.

another thought - how will the ruling that they(k2) are not involved in her death directly play into the lawsuit currently in the state of california? will this aruban ruling work in their favor, work against them, or have no effect?

[Tylergal]

Tylergal: You might want to contact Greta's bosses and register a complaint.

Slogger/Igsigs: That thought crossed my mind also--the defense's strategy of trying to force the prosecution's "hand."

In another life, a long time ago, I met Brit Hume, and I have written to him. 

[Sue]

 sure hope they are interrogating the hell out of him while they got him

[Anna]

Tyler,

Good analysis of several possibilities.  As usual, I agree with you.  I don't think the Kalpoes were involved in directly causing Natalee's death.  They either dropped off J and Natalee or only Deepak was present but did not physically cause her death.

That concealment of a corpse should cook their goose as far as innocence goes and as for the Dr Phil suit of claims for damage to their less than stellar reputations.  IMO.