Natalee Case Discussion #699 12/1 - 12/3/2007

[Dayhiker]

the separate "corruption" investigation

I have never seen anywhere that they are actively Investigating the Corruption/Cover up in Natalee's case. Where do you see this? The Dutch have had this case for 16 months now and I have seen no clues they are gonna do anything about it. We know the Arubans certainly have no intentions of exposing anyone involved in the cover up.

I think this is as close as they ever came to it and we never heard results, if I am not mistaken.

People who talk a lot, have to stop talking and let the appropriate people talk
This according to the Minister of Justice after a question about Dompig’s declarations on Vanity Fair

DIARIO Aruba
12/07/2005

ORANJESTAD(AAN): During an interview with the Minister of Justice, the press asked the mandatory about the fact that an interview with Commissioner Dompig appeared in Vanity Fair, where he said that in the case of Natalee Holloway he arrested people to please the family.

Minister Croes said that there now is a tremendous Aruban prosecutor, who works in Curacao, who has just been asked to come to Aruba to give a hand, to do an independent investigation of the investigation which took place, where she will find all the documents.

According to Minister Croes, the Public Ministry [in Aruba] asked to work with them, however the Minister wants for her to do a completely, totally independent job, to help resolve the case and to detect where things went badly, for us to avoid them in the future.

The Minister said that he asks for people who talk too much, to stop talking a little, in order to let the appropriate people speak.


// posted by Getagrip @ 12/07/2005 11:46:00 PM
http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005_12_04_archive.html

~~~~~~~~~
It seems I remember a discussion on this at AL.com forums. Perhaps dennisintn remembers...?

Thanks for posting that Nut. It rings hollow similar to the Arubans bringing in Dutch judges from Curacao as purportedly being non-biased. Yeah right. Like Judge Wit, who stifled the investigation? We are supposed to trust any government official in Curacao? Not a chance.

[NYC_lover]

Sorry if this has already been posted....if not hopefully someone can translate it

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=512&Itemid=1http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=512&Itemid=1http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=512&Itemid=1Beth Twitty a keda interoga pa mas di 4 ora diasabra mainta 
Monday, 03 December 2007 

Sure!

With shortly words, it goes about the meeting with Hans Mos and Dop Kruimel.

Translation:
oranjestad – mother of natalee holloway, beth holloway owing to haye with one surprise bleak in end of week hour with the la haye is wordo interoga for investigators of the netherlands and aruba saturday morning for more of 4 hour largo. algo with assure twitty not owing to wait for with the will have to owing to happen inside. at end, one beth twitty much disgusta and visiblemente angry, owing to deny of give comentario at good morning aruba hour with past owing to bandona keep of police, acompaña for his lawyer john q. kelly. as with good morning aruba owing to raporta end, beth twitty and dave holloway owing to haci one peticion at fiscal hans mos, for reuni with they for so can have one intercambio of information around of the investigation on the description of his child murder natalee. algo with mos owing to go of acuerdo cune. “nos owe the family one splicacion of kico we is haciendo. the is one case regrettable and tristo and they have derecho on information. that we is go give they also. information on the case” mos owing to declara still at prensa diabierna nightfall late after with owing to become conoci with they owing to lose they case contra rumannan kalpoe with saturday owing to recobra they freedom. thing with twitty not was know is with autoridad local had another intencion acerca. esta with will owing to interoga the mother and posiblemente the father also, unabes with they end with they session of ‘informacion’. the intencion was cu will owing to keep on twitty at edificio of ministery public for 8’ and half saturday morning. this then was the plan with autoridad was wanted for everybody have. but provided that realidad the plan was another. owing to dicidi with is change localidad and is come across the parents of natalee holloway at keep of police at beach enves of ministery public. then was already in careda of 8’ and algo with can owing to notice presencia end of fiscal dop kruimel with owing to arrive keep of police first and owing to enter of the door of fast. after owing to follow arrival of fiscal parent hans mos with also owing to enter keep of police but the la opta for enter for of behind, hincando his car first in the carplace inside and enter of door of near. have to notice with the unique media local present for cubri this was good morning aruba with owing to haci his investigacion necesario and owing to succeed achieve the informacion necesario. here owing to follow the part of wardamento on the family twitty, because owing to believe with cos owing to change, already with none person was aparece. diripiente half hour more late with declaration of policy, in careda of 9 of morning owing to aparece one grupito of 6 for 7 person with owing to cruza caya near of cuba’s cooking and enter keep of police for of door principal, esta fast. among the are here owing to notice presencia of beth twitty in jeans y camisa blauw, follow for his advocate mericano john q. kelly with also was dress much casual y owing to enter with one cara earnest in keep of police. the instant there still they not was know kico the plan was. after of more or less one hour and algo, owing to notice exit of tanto fiscal kruimel because; mos, while with keto go twitty and delegacion was inside. owing to last more of 5 hour after hour with diripiente twitty and delegacion owing to bandona keep of police for of door of fast, angry and owing to deny of give declaracion at prensa. after owing to enter they car and owing to bandona the sitio. good morning aruba had conocemento of the plan here delanta, but not can owing to divulga nothing for not trece the plan of autoridad at danger. and can notice with the plan will owing to funciona, although not owing to succeed achieve comentario if of twitty and niether fiscal on con they part owing to go in the case here. on combination of potretnan can owing to achieve one impresion of the momentonan of movesion fast of keep of police of beach. come across

[blah]

Same Bondia article 12/3/07:

well, they sure dont look happy at all.

and the guy with his back to the camera and even bring himself to look at her, WTF

[klaasend]

Blah - keep in mind who is associated with Bondia via ArubaToday (Julia Renfro).  We don't know if that photo was taken before the meeting or after.

[SunnyinTX]

Sorry if this has already been posted....if not hopefully someone can translate it

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=512&Itemid=1http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=512&Itemid=1http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=512&Itemid=1Beth Twitty a keda interoga pa mas di 4 ora diasabra mainta 
Monday, 03 December 2007 

Sure!

With shortly words, it goes about the meeting with Hans Mos and Dop Kruimel.

Translation:
oranjestad – mother of natalee holloway, beth holloway owing to haye with one surprise bleak in end of week hour with the la haye is wordo interoga for investigators of the netherlands and aruba saturday morning for more of 4 hour largo. algo with assure twitty not owing to wait for with the will have to owing to happen inside. at end, one beth twitty much disgusta and visiblemente angry, owing to deny of give comentario at good morning aruba hour with past owing to bandona keep of police, acompaña for his lawyer john q. kelly. as with good morning aruba owing to raporta end, beth twitty and dave holloway owing to haci one peticion at fiscal hans mos, for reuni with they for so can have one intercambio of information around of the investigation on the description of his child murder natalee. algo with mos owing to go of acuerdo cune. “nos owe the family one splicacion of kico we is haciendo. the is one case regrettable and tristo and they have derecho on information. that we is go give they also. information on the case” mos owing to declara still at prensa diabierna nightfall late after with owing to become conoci with they owing to lose they case contra rumannan kalpoe with saturday owing to recobra they freedom. thing with twitty not was know is with autoridad local had another intencion acerca. esta with will owing to interoga the mother and posiblemente the father also, unabes with they end with they session of ‘informacion’. the intencion was cu will owing to keep on twitty at edificio of ministery public for 8’ and half saturday morning. this then was the plan with autoridad was wanted for everybody have. but provided that realidad the plan was another. owing to dicidi with is change localidad and is come across the parents of natalee holloway at keep of police at beach enves of ministery public. then was already in careda of 8’ and algo with can owing to notice presencia end of fiscal dop kruimel with owing to arrive keep of police first and owing to enter of the door of fast. after owing to follow arrival of fiscal parent hans mos with also owing to enter keep of police but the la opta for enter for of behind, hincando his car first in the carplace inside and enter of door of near. have to notice with the unique media local present for cubri this was good morning aruba with owing to haci his investigacion necesario and owing to succeed achieve the informacion necesario. here owing to follow the part of wardamento on the family twitty, because owing to believe with cos owing to change, already with none person was aparece. diripiente half hour more late with declaration of policy, in careda of 9 of morning owing to aparece one grupito of 6 for 7 person with owing to cruza caya near of cuba’s cooking and enter keep of police for of door principal, esta fast. among the are here owing to notice presencia of beth twitty in jeans y camisa blauw, follow for his advocate mericano john q. kelly with also was dress much casual y owing to enter with one cara earnest in keep of police. the instant there still they not was know kico the plan was. after of more or less one hour and algo, owing to notice exit of tanto fiscal kruimel because; mos, while with keto go twitty and delegacion was inside. owing to last more of 5 hour after hour with diripiente twitty and delegacion owing to bandona keep of police for of door of fast, angry and owing to deny of give declaracion at prensa. after owing to enter they car and owing to bandona the sitio. good morning aruba had conocemento of the plan here delanta, but not can owing to divulga nothing for not trece the plan of autoridad at danger. and can notice with the plan will owing to funciona, although not owing to succeed achieve comentario if of twitty and niether fiscal on con they part owing to go in the case here. on combination of potretnan can owing to achieve one impresion of the momentonan of movesion fast of keep of police of beach. come across

thanks NYC....much appreciated

[blah]

Blah - keep in mind who is associated with Bondia via ArubaToday (Julia Renfro).  We don't know if that photo was taken before the meeting or after.

good point.

[Observer]

I think its been a huge game of smoke and mirrors,all talk and pure BS coming out of Aruba since June 2005. Rudy Croes never had any intentions of looking into anything because he's in the middle of it. When they aren't shifting key officials in and out they are playing the blame game. However nothing is ever done and dirty cops like Van Der Straaten retires...err umm takes over as Police Commish in Bonaire and Narcotics Officer Dennis Jacobs continues to be lead Investigator for almost 2 more years.


Investigation of the Police Force is not necessary
by A.M. Digital

Posted: Jul 9, 2005 18:10 UTC

ORANJESTAD - The Natalee Holloway case certainly has Aruba upside down. There is a lot of pressure on the Government and on the investigating team.

According to Eric Zaandam, president of the Police union SPA, it is unfortunate that the case has not yet been solved, but more unfortunate are the negative expressions towards the police force by amongst others the Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, and by Prime Minister Nelson Oduber.

“This is to regretted because, instead of receiving support our own Government dignitaries express themselves negatively about the police” said Zaandam. “Minister Rudy Croes even mentioned that he will bring in a police team from Curaçao to investigate their colleagues in Aruba.”

Eric Zaandam wishes for the Minister of Justice to understand once and for all that the investigating team is responsible and has to report to the Public Prosecutor, and this happens all the time. The investigating team has no obligation to report to anybody else, including the Minister of Justice. The Minister may well bring any team from abroad but the Aruba Police Force will not report to any team.

Those that wish to have information will have to knock on the door at the Public Prosecutor’s office and not interrogate any member of the investigating team, according to the union leader. Minister Croes should not try to play the police forces of other islands against the Aruba police force.

SPA learned of the intentions of the Aruba Minister of Justice when they were in Surinam to commemorate 100 years of existence of the Surinam police force. Here they advised their colleague from the Netherlands Antilles not to fall in the trap of the Aruba Minister. SPA also contacted the Netherlands Antillean Police Union on the matter.

If the Aruba Minister of Justice wants information, he will have to approach the Public Prosecutor, and not accuse any member of the investigating team of leaking information. The investigating team did not commit any crime and an investigation is not necessary.

“The Aruba Police have already cooperated with all the teams that wished to help with the investigation of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, except Scotland Yard” said Zaandam.

In police circles it is already agreed that they will not collaborate with any team that comes in to investigate the investigating team of the Natalee Holloway case.

http://news.caribseek.com/set-up/exec/view.cgi?archive=72&num=16771

[blah]

has Red or anyone talked to her since the meeting?  Anyone heard the tone of her voice since the meeting??

[Dayhiker]

Here is an interesting point:

Mos does not need a Judges approval to charge the suspects with crimes. As I understand it, he charges them, and a trial panel of Judges will try them. The only thing the pretrial Judge can do is decide if the charges merit a pretrial detention. The pretrial Judge can not dismiss the charges.

The only thing stopping Mos from trying the case is Mos himself. I think the corruption is deep enough that he will not bring charges because he likes having a job.

If so he hasn't done Aruba a service, Spock. The prosecution of the three Amigos and Paulus would go far to alleviate Aruba's image problems, but this same drugging, raping, and murder will re-occur unless they fix the big problem that caused this in the first place. If they had simply followed the rules and prosecuted Natalee's case like they should have I daresay their tourism and public image would have hardly been affected. The cover-up is what has gotten the island in the trouble it is in.

There's that saying in legal and political circles, "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up." If they don't fix their government and get rid of the Dutch and Aruban corruption they are doomed to repeat themselves. It would also help if they curbed the open sale of drugs and threw the predators that use them on innocent tourist women in prison. Their problem is three-fold: corruption, drugs and local male predators.

[blah]

Does Mos have any plan to interrogate Dick Cheney?


 

[klaasend]

has Red or anyone talked to her since the meeting?  Anyone heard the tone of her voice since the meeting??

Not sure.  I know Red has a call into her.

[klaasend]

Does Mos have any plan to interrogate Dick Cheney?


 

No but I hear he wants to detain Obama 

[Dayhiker]

I think its been a huge game of smoke and mirrors,all talk and pure BS coming out of Aruba since June 2005. Rudy Croes never had any intentions of looking into anything because he's in the middle of it.


Investigation of the Police Force is not necessary
by A.M. Digital

Posted: Jul 9, 2005 18:10 UTC

ORANJESTAD - The Natalee Holloway case certainly has Aruba upside down. There is a lot of pressure on the Government and on the investigating team.

According to Eric Zaandam, president of the Police union SPA, it is unfortunate that the case has not yet been solved, but more unfortunate are the negative expressions towards the police force by amongst others the Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, and by Prime Minister Nelson Oduber.

“This is to regretted because, instead of receiving support our own Government dignitaries express themselves negatively about the police” said Zaandam. “Minister Rudy Croes even mentioned that he will bring in a police team from Curaçao to investigate their colleagues in Aruba.”

Snipped

“The Aruba Police have already cooperated with all the teams that wished to help with the investigation of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, except Scotland Yard” said Zaandam.

In police circles it is already agreed that they will not collaborate with any team that comes in to investigate the investigating team of the Natalee Holloway case.

http://news.caribseek.com/set-up/exec/view.cgi?archive=72&num=16771

What a farce. We now know they gave the FBI nothing, squeezed them out. This Zaandam is one of the first guys they should be investigating, he is running a clear misinformation campaign.

[blah]

Does Mos have any plan to interrogate Dick Cheney?


 

No but I hear he wants to detain Obama 

oh yes, it all makes sense now.  Barack Obama did it with the help of Condi Rice and a band of pygmies

 

[Spock]

Here is an interesting point:

Mos does not need a Judges approval to charge the suspects with crimes. As I understand it, he charges them, and a trial panel of Judges will try them. The only thing the pretrial Judge can do is decide if the charges merit a pretrial detention. The pretrial Judge can not dismiss the charges.

The only thing stopping Mos from trying the case is Mos himself. I think the corruption is deep enough that he will not bring charges because he likes having a job.

If so he hasn't done Aruba a service, Spock. The prosecution of the three Amigos and Paulus would go far to alleviate Aruba's image problems, but this same drugging, raping, and murder will re-occur unless they fix the big problem that caused this in the first place. If they had simply followed the rules and prosecuted Natalee's case like they should have I daresay their tourism and public image would have hardly been affected. The cover-up is what has gotten the island in the trouble it is in.

There's that saying in legal and political circles, "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up." If they don't fix their government and get rid of the Dutch and Aruban corruption they are doomed to repeat themselves. It would also help if they curbed the open sale of drugs and threw the predators that use them on innocent tourist women in prison. Their problem is three-fold: corruption, drugs and local male predators.

I agree with you, but my point was Mos doesnt need anyone's approval to take the suspects to trial. If he wants a trial, he gets one. The problem is, his boss, the Minister of Justice, wants the case closed, and no trial. Now , if he likes his job and his position in govenment, what do you think he will do?

[blah]

is Taco in Aruba yet or was he just blowing hot air about going down there?

[NYC_lover]

thanks NYC....much appreciated

You are welcome SunnyinTX.... and yes I know it was much. 

[klaasend]

Posted by the witch at RU:

Glenda wrote:

Yes, I can clear this up. Beth and JQK walked into the Prosecutors office on their own accord. I don't know if it was Beth's nervousness or JQK's "wildzang" that made them 1/2 late to their meeting. 


Or maybe the traffic?  Certainly there was an accident, there always is 

[blah]

Posted by the witch at RU:

Glenda wrote:

Yes, I can clear this up. Beth and JQK walked into the Prosecutors office on their own accord. I don't know if it was Beth's nervousness or JQK's "wildzang" that made them 1/2 late to their meeting. 


Or maybe the traffic?  Certainly there was an accident, there always is 

I heard from a reliable source that if you get there too early, you have to wait for them to finish their cornflakes.


And morning cartoons.


 

[Nut44x4]

is Taco in Aruba yet or was he just blowing hot air about going down there?

Wed. I think...to get Joran out early, lmao.