Natalee Case Discussion #699 12/1 - 12/3/2007

[SunnyinTX]

And I sincerley hope that any information gleaned in this meeting is not made public.
I also hope they never used a phone in Aruba. Glenda can speculate all she wants, unless she was a fly on the wall she knows sh*&.

Amen Kat....Amen......

[Buckeye]

I think the boys were being quite clever and described the apparel of The Soul Beach guards.  I think it backfired on them.  Didn't Mickey have on a black coat that night??

[Tamikosmom]

They never released Paulus' telephone records but we know these exist and that he was wiretapped. Rudy Croes told us there were very suspicious phone calls between Paulus and Van der Straten in the early goings. Mayhaps this is some of the "overlooked" evidence Mos spoke of. Mos does not seem to feel the love for Paulus that the original bunch does. Am sure he has these in the file.

Dayhiker ... I have only located one quote of Hans Mos that references ... the Father.  I must have missing something.

I cannot imagine any "new" wiretap and textmessage evidence that would not implicate Paulus along with Joran, Deepak and Satish.  I cannot imagine any "re-examination" of existing evidence which would not implicate Paulus along with Joran, Deepak and Satish.  Yet ... Paulus was not detained along with the other three.

I have read over many of Hanns Mos statements to the media as well as his words in the Greta interview.  In my opinion ... there is a deafening silence by Hans Mos in regards to Paulus ... there is an appearance that Paulus is off topic.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313168,00.html
Hans Mos
On the Record w/ Greta

And what we think is very important, at least the Dutch suspect, instead of the two Surinams, and his father, who was one way or another involved in this case, has said in interviews that they are willing to talk. They are willing to disclose what happened in the past at a time set by them. And we think it is very important that this is the time to disclose this information to the public and to us because their point of view is, their son or this suspect, this Dutch suspect, didn't do anything, but he has information and he doesn't give it. We think that's unthinkable.


http://www.wtop.com/?sid=1296839&nid=105
Associated Press
November 24, 2007

Investigators are focusing in part on cell phone calls and text messages between the suspects, prosecutor Dop Kruimel told The Associated Press.

"It's part of the investigation," she said, declining to give further details. "We do everything we can to see what happened."

Van der Sloot will appear before a judge on Monday, Aruba's chief prosecutor Hans Mos told the AP.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html
Hans Mos
CNN
November 30, 2007

Mos has told CNN he believes authorities have enough evidence to prove Holloway is dead, even if her body is never found. He has suggested her death was an accident.

The new evidence against the three men was gathered from advanced techniques used to re-examine existing information, including cell phone records and text messages exchanged the night Holloway disappeared, Mos has said.

[SunnyinTX]

msmarples and all

Found a full English copy of the letter Art Woods had published in Diario.  You need to scroll a little down past the black backround and the very white newspaper backround will display.

http://renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch.html

Thanks...much appreciated

[Blonde]

Someone  emailed this  to me it's from Robin Holloway
I think she talking about Mark in aruba not Mark F
If you already have it you can delete it TY

Dave is currently on his way home to Meridian. Beth is on her way back also. They met with the KLPD and OM yesterday. I guess there is a miscommunication between interrogation and questioning. They had a lot of questions for Dave and Beth in efforts to help Natalee’s case and dispel a lot of nasty rumours. Also, Dave and Beth had a lot of questions for them too in regards to Natalee’s case. The meeting went well and they are working hard, but we don’t know what will happen next and pray this water search will turn up something. As far as Julia, we have stayed in contact with her and she truly does care for Natalee and wants to know what happened to her as much as anyone else. Dave was able to meet with Mark for a little while last night while he was there and had a nice visit. It is good to know they are still there and willing to help. Please know they are still there too for Natalee.

For now, waiting on Dave to get home and will watch the news or wait on that phone call to see what will happen next. It’s been a long two and a half years and never dreamed this much time would go by with no answers. Thanks to all of you for your continued support and for hanging in there with us. Thank you Debbie for coming to Meridian to hang out with the girls, Matt and me. I was a nervous wreck and glad you were able to make time for us this weekend. Brooke just got in from a playdate and was upset she didn’t get to say goodbye Sad I don’t think she realized you would be gone before she got home.

The boat should be in Aruba depending on the weather between Thurs and Saturday. Will keep you updated.

[Dayhiker]

They never released Paulus' telephone records but we know these exist and that he was wiretapped. Rudy Croes told us there were very suspicious phone calls between Paulus and Van der Straten in the early goings. Mayhaps this is some of the "overlooked" evidence Mos spoke of. Mos does not seem to feel the love for Paulus that the original bunch does. Am sure he has these in the file.

Dayhiker ... I have only located one quote of Hans Mos that references ... the Father.  I must have missing something.

I cannot imagine any "new" wiretap and textmessage evidence that would not implicate Paulus along with Joran, Deepak and Satish.  I cannot imagine any "re-examination" of existing evidence which would not implicate Paulus along with Joran, Deepak and Satish.  Yet ... Paulus was not detained along with the other three.

I have read over many of Hanns Mos statements to the media as well as his words in the Greta interview.  In my opinion ... there is a deafening silence by Hans Mos in regards to Paulus ... there is an appearance that Paulus is off topic.

Janet

Correct Janet, that is the quote I was referencing.

And what we think is very important, at least the Dutch suspect, instead of the two Surinams, and his father, who was one way or another involved in this case, has said in interviews that they are willing to talk.


I wouldn't expect Mos to say much about Paulus until he is arrested again.

[Puzzler]

replay of greta today

the delicious sporter admitted they went to his house but didnt go in..

sureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee..

I believe Paulus has MUCH involvement.  I can't get that picture of him at the casino talking to Natalee out of my mind.  Maybe Paulus was the one who had so much interest in Natalee at first.  Joran is very protective about his father.  Maybe Paulus was more involved in the beginning and that is why he was willing to help 2K so much (meeting, planning, attorneys, etc.).  It think they did go to Joran's house BUT that they DID go inside. 

[Nut44x4]

Of course, should Natalee's remains be found, then the emissaries of hell will claim it was planted to be found.  I hope they have an impeccable witness aboard and video everything.

Oh Anna...they already think that. They think this ship is carrying Natalee out to sea to be planted...didn't you know? 

[Tibrogargan]

Posted by Glenda at Ru:

You mean the fisherman who didn't report a crab trap stolen although that is the premise for the Million Dollar Search for Natalee. Did I read here that the owner of the boat was quoted saying her remains would still be intact because the water is sooo cold. What is the definition of Cold? Because this water is like a warm bathtub.

Question for Glenda:  When was the last time you dove to 1000 feet? 

I'm behind, but didn't Dr. Baden make the statement about the body being preserved in cold, deep water?

Yes 2NJ - I have heard Dr Baden make this statement more than once on FOX.

[Tibrogargan]

" Glenda " at RU is not an expert in marine temperates.
Unless she is speaking of a Hot Marine. LOL
.. The owners of this equipment are the experts and and if they make such statements, then I would listen.

So true Kat_Gram.
BTW it is nice to see you posting also.

[private eye]

I know that anyone in Beth's family would agree to be interrogated for an eternity if it would help Mos do his job. IF THERE IS ANY INFORMATION THE FAMILY COULD POSSIBLY POSSESS THAT WOULD MOVE THIS CASE FORWARD I AM SURE THEY PRAY THAT MOS IS INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO ASK THEM THE CORRECT QUESTION THAT WILL GENERATE THE NEEDED ANSWER. NOTHING WOULD BE OFF LIMITS.

However, I still think Mos is on track by prosecuting the brothers as that process is the most probable course to extracting the truth about what happened to Natalee. Three years to the brothers is a life time, and anything they can do to mitigate the time they have to serve they will do. Maybe Aruba doesn't have "plea bargaining" as we do, but I guarantee that cooperation with the authorities results in lighter sentences. I hope everyone will support Mos efforts, keep him politically strong and personally interested, and keep our expectations of him high so that Natalee's friends can only a part of the solution and not an excuse for the failure. People are people the world over and people are motivated by public support and the expectations people have of them, so lets give Mos all of that we have got. He has expressed his interest, demonstrated his passion, and is all we have as of now.

Well, at least I have 3 cents left after spewing my 2 cents worth.

PS My real reason for hope is that RU and those misfits still are not celebrating as one would think.

[Tamikosmom]

I think the boys were being quite clever and described the apparel of The Soul Beach guards.  I think it backfired on them.  Didn't Mickey have on a black coat that night??

The only thing ... the security guards were not working on the evening/ morning when Natalee Holloway went missing.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Chris LeJuez - Abraham Jones' Attorney
NANCY GRACE
June 9, 2005

LEJUEZ: My client`s alibi he is that went to a soul music festival at another beach far away from the Holiday Inn hotel. He was there with his wife, with his friend, and he saw many friends there. They were together when he went home, and they spent the night together at home. The next morning, he woke up and went to work at around 7:00 o`clock in the morning, a very believable and confirmed alibi.


Noraina Pietersz - Mickey John's Attorney
NANCY GRACE
June 9, 2005

PIETERSZ: Well, he has an alibi, but the problem is, he has nobody to verify it because his mother was at home. She was sleeping. And like she said, he`s a grown-up man. She doesn`t really control and check on the time he gets home. So he doesn`t have somebody that can say, Oh, yes, he was home at such time. That`s the only thing. But the fact is that he was not at the Holiday Inn. He was never seen at that time during the disappearance at the Holiday Inn. He was not working. He didn`t have a uniform, so it could never be him, the man that these two now suspects are talking about.

[klaasend]

Someone  emailed this  to me it's from Robin Holloway
I think she talking about Mark in aruba not Mark F
If you already have it you can delete it TY

Dave is currently on his way home to Meridian. Beth is on her way back also. They met with the KLPD and OM yesterday. I guess there is a miscommunication between interrogation and questioning. They had a lot of questions for Dave and Beth in efforts to help Natalee’s case and dispel a lot of nasty rumours. Also, Dave and Beth had a lot of questions for them too in regards to Natalee’s case. The meeting went well and they are working hard, but we don’t know what will happen next and pray this water search will turn up something. As far as Julia, we have stayed in contact with her and she truly does care for Natalee and wants to know what happened to her as much as anyone else. Dave was able to meet with Mark for a little while last night while he was there and had a nice visit. It is good to know they are still there and willing to help. Please know they are still there too for Natalee.

For now, waiting on Dave to get home and will watch the news or wait on that phone call to see what will happen next. It’s been a long two and a half years and never dreamed this much time would go by with no answers. Thanks to all of you for your continued support and for hanging in there with us. Thank you Debbie for coming to Meridian to hang out with the girls, Matt and me. I was a nervous wreck and glad you were able to make time for us this weekend. Brooke just got in from a playdate and was upset she didn’t get to say goodbye Sad I don’t think she realized you would be gone before she got home.

The boat should be in Aruba depending on the weather between Thurs and Saturday. Will keep you updated.

Sorry but I call BS on the red highlighted above.  I think it's a huge problem to trust Julia Renfro or Mark Purcell.  I doubt Beth does.

[Dayhiker]

I believe the 2 security guards were arrested and put in there to help the police to monitor what J2K were blabbing in jail.  JMO but I do believe they could not take a chance of having those boys talking to anyone so they placed the guards (probably paid off to do this) in cells next to them to account for anything they might say.
I disagee in the most polite and monkey like fashion.
IMO those two were arrested to see how it would fly and if Beth and Jug and Dave had not been there and done some of their own research into the facts and knew better, it would have been life for those two. Beth was the driving force on the CNN news channels in getting these two guys released. The families of the two guards were not treated in the same fashion as the Kalpoes or the Sloots. I do remember one of their mothers being on CNN and she was being told absolutely nothing by the ALE. I don't even think she was told where her son was. The guards families had no inside track in the Justice Ministry.

I have to agree with Kat.  Considering the way Aruba looks down on blacks (and women), the 2 black men would of been the 'easy out' for Aruba.

Race did not have a significant role in the arrest of Antonius Johns and Abraham Jones.  The fact that Johns is from Grenada and Jones from Bonaire probably did make them more vulnerable to becoming “dispensable” in the eyes of the police investigators, because they are immigrants.

Oh really. Hmmm.  I saw the photos of the two security guards being dragged out of their houses early in the a.m. in their boxers and handcuffs.  IIRC, that wasn't the case for Joran. 

Sure wasn't, muffybee.  And I think the fact that they were black was supposed to appeal to Hitler's sister's daughter as well, given her known racist tendencies.  Deepak has been told Natalee called them slaves so guess that also gave him the idea to select a couple of black people to go along with the Plantation mentality of the Alabama Delegation.  Course he got that little tidbit from Joran telling him Natalee said that.  Joran's way of trying to make Deepak hate Natalee.  And also a good reflection of Joran's prejudices as well instead of all the others he tries to cast aspersions upon.

I believe they were arrested because of their race. Paulus hand picked black guards. They had no evidence on them, the H-T families were from Alabama, they thought they would eat it up. Wrong. As for the Hitler and slave references, same deal. All the those references originated with the van der Sloots and were picked up by the Kalpoes and Janssen. They were trying to discredit her from the beginning. Do you remember Joran saying she was out of her mind on drugs and alcohol initially, then changing his story completely because he found out he could be charged with rape? Same deal.

[MalteseMom]

I just can't believe that Robin would think Julia Renfro was on the family's side.  How Sad

[Buckeye]

I think the boys were being quite clever and described the apparel of The Soul Beach guards.  I think it backfired on them.  Didn't Mickey have on a black coat that night??

The only thing ... the security guards were not working on the evening/ morning when Natalee Holloway went missing.

Janet

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Chris LeJuez - Abraham Jones' Attorney
NANCY GRACE
June 9, 2005

LEJUEZ: My client`s alibi he is that went to a soul music festival at another beach far away from the Holiday Inn hotel. He was there with his wife, with his friend, and he saw many friends there. They were together when he went home, and they spent the night together at home. The next morning, he woke up and went to work at around 7:00 o`clock in the morning, a very believable and confirmed alibi.


Noraina Pietersz - Mickey John's Attorney
NANCY GRACE
June 9, 2005

PIETERSZ: Well, he has an alibi, but the problem is, he has nobody to verify it because his mother was at home. She was sleeping. And like she said, he`s a grown-up man. She doesn`t really control and check on the time he gets home. So he doesn`t have somebody that can say, Oh, yes, he was home at such time. That`s the only thing. But the fact is that he was not at the Holiday Inn. He was never seen at that time during the disappearance at the Holiday Inn. He was not working. He didn`t have a uniform, so it could never be him, the man that these two now suspects are talking about.

I think the boys were trying to implicate the Soul Beach guards (who by then would have left the island....with Natalee).  It was the ALE that went with the others.  I don't know why.  I know they weren't working.

[Anna]

Someone  emailed this  to me it's from Robin Holloway
I think she talking about Mark in aruba not Mark F
If you already have it you can delete it TY

Dave is currently on his way home to Meridian. Beth is on her way back also. They met with the KLPD and OM yesterday. I guess there is a miscommunication between interrogation and questioning. They had a lot of questions for Dave and Beth in efforts to help Natalee’s case and dispel a lot of nasty rumours. Also, Dave and Beth had a lot of questions for them too in regards to Natalee’s case. The meeting went well and they are working hard, but we don’t know what will happen next and pray this water search will turn up something. As far as Julia, we have stayed in contact with her and she truly does care for Natalee and wants to know what happened to her as much as anyone else. Dave was able to meet with Mark for a little while last night while he was there and had a nice visit. It is good to know they are still there and willing to help. Please know they are still there too for Natalee.

For now, waiting on Dave to get home and will watch the news or wait on that phone call to see what will happen next. It’s been a long two and a half years and never dreamed this much time would go by with no answers. Thanks to all of you for your continued support and for hanging in there with us. Thank you Debbie for coming to Meridian to hang out with the girls, Matt and me. I was a nervous wreck and glad you were able to make time for us this weekend. Brooke just got in from a playdate and was upset she didn’t get to say goodbye Sad I don’t think she realized you would be gone before she got home.

The boat should be in Aruba depending on the weather between Thurs and Saturday. Will keep you updated.

Sorry but I call BS on the red highlighted above.  I think it's a huge problem to trust Julia Renfro or Mark Purcell.  I doubt Beth does.

Look at the way those two have trashed not only Natalee but so many of us as well.  I guess our support is very cheap.

[Tamikosmom]

They never released Paulus' telephone records but we know these exist and that he was wiretapped. Rudy Croes told us there were very suspicious phone calls between Paulus and Van der Straten in the early goings. Mayhaps this is some of the "overlooked" evidence Mos spoke of. Mos does not seem to feel the love for Paulus that the original bunch does. Am sure he has these in the file.

Dayhiker ... I have only located one quote of Hans Mos that references ... the Father.  I must have missing something.

I cannot imagine any "new" wiretap and textmessage evidence that would not implicate Paulus along with Joran, Deepak and Satish.  I cannot imagine any "re-examination" of existing evidence which would not implicate Paulus along with Joran, Deepak and Satish.  Yet ... Paulus was not detained along with the other three.

I have read over many of Hanns Mos statements to the media as well as his words in the Greta interview.  In my opinion ... there is a deafening silence by Hans Mos in regards to Paulus ... there is an appearance that Paulus is off topic.

Janet

Correct Janet, that is the quote I was referencing.

And what we think is very important, at least the Dutch suspect, instead of the two Surinams, and his father, who was one way or another involved in this case, has said in interviews that they are willing to talk.


I wouldn't expect Mos to say much about Paulus until he is arrested again.

Could someone please explain what Hans Mos is talking about in that one quote where he references Paulus ... the Father.  I find his words so confusing.

Thanks.

Janet

[Dayhiker]

I know that anyone in Beth's family would agree to be interrogated for an eternity if it would help Mos do his job. IF THERE IS ANY INFORMATION THE FAMILY COULD POSSIBLY POSSESS THAT WOULD MOVE THIS CASE FORWARD I AM SURE THEY PRAY THAT MOS IS INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO ASK THEM THE CORRECT QUESTION THAT WILL GENERATE THE NEEDED ANSWER. NOTHING WOULD BE OFF LIMITS.

However, I still think Mos is on track by prosecuting the brothers as that process is the most probable course to extracting the truth about what happened to Natalee. Three years to the brothers is a life time, and anything they can do to mitigate the time they have to serve they will do. Maybe Aruba doesn't have "plea bargaining" as we do, but I guarantee that cooperation with the authorities results in lighter sentences. I hope everyone will support Mos efforts, keep him politically strong and personally interested, and keep our expectations of him high so that Natalee's friends can only a part of the solution and not an excuse for the failure. People are people the world over and people are motivated by public support and the expectations people have of them, so lets give Mos all of that we have got. He has expressed his interest, demonstrated his passion, and is all we have as of now.

Well, at least I have 3 cents left after spewing my 2 cents worth.

PS My real reason for hope is that RU and those misfits still are not celebrating as one would think.

They don't use the word plea bargaining, Private Eye, but in their system the Dutch judge will go easier on them if they are forthcoming with the truth. Duh, sounds a lot like plea bargaining.

[Tylergal]

I believe the 2 security guards were arrested and put in there to help the police to monitor what J2K were blabbing in jail.  JMO but I do believe they could not take a chance of having those boys talking to anyone so they placed the guards (probably paid off to do this) in cells next to them to account for anything they might say.
I disagee in the most polite and monkey like fashion.
IMO those two were arrested to see how it would fly and if Beth and Jug and Dave had not been there and done some of their own research into the facts and knew better, it would have been life for those two. Beth was the driving force on the CNN news channels in getting these two guys released. The families of the two guards were not treated in the same fashion as the Kalpoes or the Sloots. I do remember one of their mothers being on CNN and she was being told absolutely nothing by the ALE. I don't even think she was told where her son was. The guards families had no inside track in the Justice Ministry.

I have to agree with Kat.  Considering the way Aruba looks down on blacks (and women), the 2 black men would of been the 'easy out' for Aruba.

Race did not have a significant role in the arrest of Antonius Johns and Abraham Jones.  The fact that Johns is from Grenada and Jones from Bonaire probably did make them more vulnerable to becoming “dispensable” in the eyes of the police investigators, because they are immigrants.

Oh really. Hmmm.  I saw the photos of the two security guards being dragged out of their houses early in the a.m. in their boxers and handcuffs.  IIRC, that wasn't the case for Joran. 

Sure wasn't, muffybee.  And I think the fact that they were black was supposed to appeal to Hitler's sister's daughter as well, given her known racist tendencies.  Deepak has been told Natalee called them slaves so guess that also gave him the idea to select a couple of black people to go along with the Plantation mentality of the Alabama Delegation.  Course he got that little tidbit from Joran telling him Natalee said that.  Joran's way of trying to make Deepak hate Natalee.  And also a good reflection of Joran's prejudices as well instead of all the others he tries to cast aspersions upon.

I think the truth be known Anita and Paulus called Natalee racist and that was planted by the "Yenta," Rosemary Arnold.  Make no mistake there is a method to the outrage of the obstreperous Taco.