Natalee Case Discussion #703 12/8 - 12/11//2007

[KarmaRoundUp]

It would have been awful if we went all the way to Aruba to find out the side scan sonar and ROV was incapable of the tasks we require.  The sea trials served to both get the gear working on board the Persistence and to prove their adequacy. If you think it would be interesting, I could post a sample of the sea trial data. The side scan sonar data is fantastic.

I think it's all fascinating..Even more so because on this expedition you are looking for Natalee. I observed some of the pics and it's amazing how small the crab cage would look. I guess thats where the ROV will come into play and great to hear that it has been working perfect.

In recent years there have been other missing americans who have dissapeared without a trace under suspicious circumstances. They may have been also buried off the coast of Aruba. You search may have others worried in Aruba that are not involved in Natalee's dissapearance.

I agree,no telling how many bodies the Persistence might find.

[robots]

The thing I am asking if is a camera is at Paulus left elbow, not directly in front of him.  It could be a small video camera even.  Appears to have a wide strap. 

I think it is a prop he used in his ruse along with Joran to play the role of tourist. 

Also recall Anita mentioning her camera at great length.  There is a reason she did that.

Is this her camera and Paulus is using Mommy's camera as a prop to appear to the tourist girls to also be a tourist as we know Joran claimed to be?

Just another of those strange coincidents it is now appearing we will never have answers for.

.

yes, a strap of some kind

Robots,

Again, you are my hero as evidently you are the only other one who can see it!

 

Yes, it has a wide black strap like something that tacky Anita would stick on her camera she was whining about the police taking. 

.

i saw it immediately 

Hi Robots,  How Funny, but what I see is what I think looks like a glass of beer sitting on the table that probably belongs to the guy in the gray shirt sitting this side of Paulus.

hiya scandi, anything is possible
i wish we had the whole tape

[robots]

Yes, Paulus, if that is in fact Paulus, has the viewfinder out on the camera as though filming the MB girls.

But I am sure Julia has three hotel workers and a taxi driver who will swear that's a toaster or something!

.

 

[NYC_lover]

Dutch wear wedding rings on their right hands for some reason. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_ring
In The Netherlands, Catholic people wear it on the left, all others on the right

In a few European countries people wear their wedding bands on the left hand but the majority wear them on their right hands. In the Netherlands Catholics wear their rings on the left while others wear them on the right.
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/46046

Yes, this is correct.

[Lala'sMom]

Morning monkeys.  Why is it so hard for me to do a search here?  All I ever get is something about no matches found. 

Could someone tell me where that list of PV's that Klaas has refined from Grande's list is located?  TIA

MuminOhio I am working on something for you.  You have gotten mine and another very smart monkey's attention. 

[KarmaRoundUp]

Paulus van der Sloot, forensic scientist Michael Archer, Anita van der Sloot and attorney Joseph Tacopina are seen early Friday, Dec. 7, 2007, before the release of Joran van der Sloot, in Oranjestad, Aruba. A judge in Aruba ordered the release Friday of the last of three suspects re-arrested last month in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, ruling the evidence was not strong enough to continue holding him.
---------------------------------

Anita van der Sloot, left, reacts as her attorney Rosemarie Arnold givers her the news of the release of her son Joran van der Sloot, Friday, Dec. 7, 2007, in Oranjestad, Aruba. A judge in Aruba ordered the release Friday of the last of three suspects re-arrested last month in the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, ruling the evidence was not strong enough to continue holding him

Paulus - beyond words

Taco - every picture I've ever seen him in he's standing with his legs wide apart and looks like he's getting ready to jump at something - maybe he thinks he looks macho...I think he looks weird.

He really is disgusting.

Joe T. looks like he is trying to keep away from Anita.  He has that look on his face like oh god please don't touch me I just took a shower.

Anita is just horrendous.

How disgusting!Jeeeezzzz,put some underpants on man or at least don't pull your shorts up to your man boobs!

[klaasend]

Morning monkeys.  Why is it so hard for me to do a search here?  All I ever get is something about no matches found. 

Could someone tell me where that list of PV's that Klaas has refined from Grande's list is located?  TIA

MuminOhio I am working on something for you.  You have gotten mine and another very smart monkey's attention. 

This one is a bit more complete than Grandes:

http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/Statements_timeline.htm

[Blakerin]

snipped from Klaas's post of Joran's statement after release...
"I sat in a cell for 15 people, but alone. I could play a little football and had the bible."

He forgot to mention his cell phone

Joran's Bible is The Aruban edited edition,  The Commandment "Thou shalt not kill" has been omitted.

[Lala'sMom]

Thanks Klaas.

[robots]

I'm tore down, I'm almost level with the ground.

BUT, im better now

thats how i felt a couple days ago, i feel much better today
cant explain it, something good will happen
 

[crazybabyborg]

I don't know how everyone else feels, but I think this attitude of not pursuing lesser charges is a real can of shit-o. OJ wasn't convicted in the criminal trial, and Nicole's and Ron's family were not witnesses to true "justice" for what he did, but I vividly remember an interview with her sister, Denise, just after the civil trial and she said that it was the first thing that had eased the pain just a little for her family. In a court of law they had been able to secure a finding of guilt for OJ in connection with Nicole's death. It was an official stamp of what the family knew to be true.

She said that after the criminal trial, there was a maddening sense that he had been washed totally clean from the murders. He could truthfully say there had been an exhaustive investigation and it had cleared him. The civil finding took that away if nothing else.

I think that Beth and Dave deserve the same. If the 3 are convicted of body disposal, rape, kidnapping, whatever.........they have been officially connected to a crime committed against their daughter. And 3 or six months in jail is far better than 3 or 6 months on the street. IMO.

[Lala'sMom]

From Satish's PV of June 13:

After we drove the route we went back to Bubali. I called my brother Deepak to pick me up. When he picked me up we went straight to the racket club, near Marriot. My brother told me we were going to Joran. He is an intern at the club. In front of the entrance of the club the 3 of us met and talked. We talked about what happened. Joran told him the police called him to take him to drive the route. We told him which route we drove so he knew where to go. We spoke for about 15 minutes. We did not speak long because the police was on its way to pick up Joran. After that we drove straight home. At home my brother and I finished our sister´s home work. It had to be finished the next day. As we were busy my brother got a phone call from Joran. My brother told me we had to go to Joran´s later on. After we finished our sister´s work we went to Joran. I drove the car to his house.


Remember the K2 have just finished offering the HI lie as the latest story of what happened.  What does the "intern at the club" mean?  Joran was an intern at the racket club?  Did he have a key to the place as a result? He was working there at the time?  The police were going there to pick him up?  Why after all of this at the police station did Joran call them?  Why in the heck are they doing their sister's work? Where was the sister? 

I think I have missed something about Joran working at the racket club...I always thought he just played tennis there...if he actually worked there...the bag and shoes become more interesting.

[robots]

lost battles are not the same as losing the war

ask any soldier they will tell you about "battles"

we just got pushed off the mountain,

we are SIMPLY - REGROUPING

 

[Lala'sMom]

I'm tore down, I'm almost level with the ground.

BUT, im better now

thats how i felt a couple days ago, i feel much better today
cant explain it, something good will happen
 

Don't feel that way.  You have been my hope and shining light in my time of depression.  When I have been so discouraged and felt so sad...I cam here and asked where you were.  We have needed you to keep our spirits up.  You made me believe that mankind still has the ability to make good happen in this evil world.  Without your positive attitude I think I would have given up months ago. 

The monkeys have the answers..they are all here in the 2 years worth of work we have done.  You have helped me to keep thinking and asking the questions.  If the case is closed to Aruban prosecution we can't let it slide off the radar.  A life was extinguished because too many people turned a blind eye and looked the other way.  That is how evil gets a foothold and then it's even more difficult to stop.  Thanks to you I know that it is possible to stop...we just have to have faith that someone will find a link...a tiny little tidbit of something...that will spark ideas and thoughts into actions. 

Robots, without you and your courageous in your face comments to Aruba and all involved I would never have had the courage to carry on.   

[robots]

I'm tore down, I'm almost level with the ground.

BUT, im better now

thats how i felt a couple days ago, i feel much better today
cant explain it, something good will happen
 

Don't feel that way.  You have been my hope and shining light in my time of depression.  When I have been so discouraged and felt so sad...I cam here and asked where you were.  We have needed you to keep our spirits up.  You made me believe that mankind still has the ability to make good happen in this evil world.  Without your positive attitude I think I would have given up months ago. 

The monkeys have the answers..they are all here in the 2 years worth of work we have done.  You have helped me to keep thinking and asking the questions.  If the case is closed to Aruban prosecution we can't let it slide off the radar.  A life was extinguished because too many people turned a blind eye and looked the other way.  That is how evil gets a foothold and then it's even more difficult to stop.  Thanks to you I know that it is possible to stop...we just have to have faith that someone will find a link...a tiny little tidbit of something...that will spark ideas and thoughts into actions. 

Robots, without you and your courageous in your face comments to Aruba and all involved I would never have had the courage to carry on.   

 
im feeling better

[Anna]

NYC,

Can you confirm for me that the Dutch do not ever extradite Dutch nationals and that it is a violation of their basic Constitution to do so?

Would they not have to be tried in The Netherlands under any and all circumstances?

I do not want anyone to get the false hope that anyone, least of all a minor when crime committed, is ever going to be handed over by the Dutch to stand trial in a foreign country.  Never happen.

.

[Nut44x4]

Dutch wear wedding rings on their right hands for some reason. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_ring
In The Netherlands, Catholic people wear it on the left, all others on the right

In a few European countries people wear their wedding bands on the left hand but the majority wear them on their right hands. In the Netherlands Catholics wear their rings on the left while others wear them on the right.
http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/46046

Yes, this is correct.

Of course......I would prefer that Paulus be wearing that same wedding band around his neck  

[Nut44x4]

NYC,

Can you confirm for me that the Dutch do not ever extradite Dutch nationals and that it is a violation of their basic Constitution to do so?

Would they not have to be tried in The Netherlands under any and all circumstances?

I do not want anyone to get the false hope that anyone, least of all a minor when crime committed, is ever going to be handed over by the Dutch to stand trial in a foreign country.  Never happen.

.

Once you get that confirmation, remember the post by our 'Blue Moon of KY' a few days ago..........

"Why when Joran was told any questioning in the future would occur in the NL and then ARUBA had him picked up and sent back there--why was this?  Maybe the influence could not be put on the Dutch and control would have been lost if all this occured in the NL.  I think Aruba overrode the NL to bring him back to Aruba for questioning so they could be in control of the outcome. Mos maybe was side tracked by all this.  I hope he has learned his lesson now."

[crazybabyborg]

lost battles are not the same as losing the war

ask any soldier they will tell you about "battles"

we just got pushed off the mountain,

we are SIMPLY - REGROUPING

 

Robots? There have been a few times when I came to the forum to find your headlines and my heart would stop because I thought I had missed something huge. After reading a bit, I would realize that you were being your eternal optimistic self, and I wanted to choke and hug you at the same time. 

DON'T YOU GO ANYWHERE, AND DON'T FAIL US NOW, YOU OVERGROWN LIZARD OF HOPE! I agree with you, something good is going to happen and because you are here puffing that cigar, I don't feel foolish or alone in my feelings.

It's little things, but I couldn't help but look at those pics of Anita and Paulus and compare them to recent pics of Beth. Beth has been through the fires of Hell and has emerged purified. She has her priorities straight from the pain and knows from where to seek comfort. Paulus and Anita show the wear and scorch marks and I don't think they have emerged from whatever depths they descended. There's some sort of promise in that, that mere humans cannot control outcomes and fashion fate. I'm glad of that.

I believe something good will happen, and you and I are going to celebrate it together. 

And Lala's is going to write us in her little book when we do, 'cause she's going to be right here as well! 

[Anna]

The Dutch are holding and refuse to extradite a suspect in the 9/11 attack on this country.  I am not sure he is even a Dutch national. 

Remember the words from Paulus the first night Beth arrived:

You have no jurisdiction!


We can't get them to extradite for crimes committed here where we do have jurisdiction.  They just refuse to do it no matter what we say as we have seen with this terrorist.  Even France cooperated far better than the Dutch in this regard.

They don't respect our system.

.