Natalee Case Discussion #703 12/8 - 12/11//2007

[Anna]

the situation here is tragic

one of these days, the people involved in this corruption are going to mess with the wrong person(s)

im anxiously awaiting that day, and in particular i am waiting for paulus and joran
to step on the wrong toes of someone that will solve the "NON ANSWERING of questions with the TRUTHFUL answers  once and for all"

that day is coming

You are right Robots that justice will not be denied forever in this.

I don't know how or where it will come from but it will be served.  That's the natural order of things, anyway.

.

[Magnolia]

Mos came out with guns ablazin'.

He said that he has Explosive new evidence.
He said that he had proof that Natalee was dead.
He said that the father was definately involved.
He was willing to talk.
He gave us all hope and made us believe in him. (except San)

What happened to him?  Who got to him?
Just before the Kalpoes were released he suddenly canceled
a news conference and his next interview he blamed the
family, the media and the DEA agent. He was suddenly
like a different man.

Where is the explosive new evidence? 
How did he know that the Kalpoes disposed of the body?

It is all goofy!

[NYC_lover]

80% with 20% Scots-Irish just to give me a temper from the Irish, lol.

.

Cool almost full Dutch...lol..and Scots-Irish...good temper tosame....lol..
What I have heard, few people have Scots-Irish blood in them or are familiar with this country. And live in the US.

[Anna]

Mos came out with guns ablazin'.

He said that he has Explosive new evidence.
He said that he had proof that Natalee was dead.
He said that the father was definitely involved.
He was willing to talk.
He gave us all hope and made us believe in him. (except San)

What happened to him?  Who got to him?
Just before the Kalpoes were released he suddenly canceled
a news conference and his next interview he blamed the
family, the media and the DEA agent. He was suddenly
like a different man.

Where is the explosive new evidence? 
How did he know that the Kalpoes disposed of the body?

It is all goofy!

You are so right!  I remain stunned by this and don't know what in the world to think now.

It's even gone from releasing the suspects to closing the investigation entirely.

Talking now as though Natalee just died from non-violence maybe in Joran's presence and the Kalpoe Body Disposal Unit just did a sort of unconventional internment of some sort or other that would require only minutes be served in jail so why bother with that trivial detail.

Every time he speaks of late, this becomes less and less a crime and less serious.

And yet nothing has really changed.  Natalee is still missing and her parents do not know what happened to her after she got in the car with the suspects.

Mind boggling!

[NYC_lover]

Sorry monkey friends, I have to go for dinnertime.
I am not sure which time I come back, because I want watch the Woman World Cup Skiing in Aspen, Colorado.
And after that Peter R. De Vries.

[dennisintn]

The Dutch do not extradite Dutch Nationals.  It is against their Constitution.

Therefore, any Dutch citizen is always going to be going before one of those famous Dutch judges who never met a suspect they didn't like.

Now isn't THAT special!

.

this was not an extradition from holland to another country. remember their big excuse for letting jvds go to holland in 2005, was because holland and the islands are all one big country, and jvds could be called in at any time for anything a.l.e. needed.  turned out they were wrong about just being able to ask them to come in and talk.  paulus is just twisting people and actions to suit his needs of controlling natalee's case.  moving jvds from holland to aruba isn't much more involved than transfering a prisoner from one jail to another in the same town.  that's what we were lead to believe anyway.
dennisintn

Remember, Jorans Dutch lawyer did not fight the extradition back to Aruba.  Remember Quido's (is this spelled right?) lawyer did and he was not sent back.  Joran was better off being sent back to Aruba for his protection by his father and judges. Guido was not best served being sent back to Aruba.

i can't remember this minute, and don't have time to look, but i don't think guido was under the envelope of suspect when he was arrested in holland, and i think there were other differences in the circumstances of the two men also.
dennisintn

[dennisintn]

nyclover.  did you hear peter devries say anything about natalee's case?
dennisintn

[Puzzler]

With all that has been going on of late, I have to wonder why in the world the vd Sloots and their evil cadre are all over the newspapers, preening and posing, pants unzipped, see through paraphernalia and all and generally seen as celebrating as though they are so happy that this young girl is still missing.

Is this not the height of callous behavior and poor taste?

Hee hee hee....I bet Taco ha NO IDEA his little picture would turn out!!

[Puzzler]

the situation here is tragic

one of these days, the people involved in this corruption are going to mess with the wrong person(s)

im anxiously awaiting that day, and in particular i am waiting for paulus and joran
to step on the wrong toes of someone that will solve the "NON ANSWERING of questions with the TRUTHFUL answers  once and for all"

that day is coming

Same thing I've been thinking for the past few days...

[Anna]

O/T Pages are loading so slowly for me I can't stand it any longer.

Going to drag out the tree and do the thing with that.

If we had all just listened to Carnut, we would still have our trees up from last year and be spared all this re-decorating business!   

[Tylergal]

With all that has been going on of late, I have to wonder why in the world the vd Sloots and their evil cadre are all over the newspapers, preening and posing, pants unzipped, see through paraphernalia and all and generally seen as celebrating as though they are so happy that this young girl is still missing.

Is this not the height of callous behavior and poor taste?

Well, Anna, that's one thing no no one would ever accuse the vdS of, having class.  Had they class, would they allow their kids to hang out (with) (without) them in a local gambling casino?  Would they befriend Julia Renfro?  Would Joran have hung out with the PIMPS that he did?  Would he have worn that same checked blue shirt for weeks on end?  Would Anita have gone out in public with a see-thru blouse?  Would Paulus have dared wear pants that were half zipped and s sweaty shirt?  Would they have chosen Joe Tacopino as an attorney and even if they felt it necessary, would they have had their picture made with him for what appeared a social event?

When people with class are on holiday, they can "slum" and still be trendy, but not the inhabitants of said place.  We all do things on holiday out of cultural interests that we might not do each day in our lives, but it appears the Sloots live like they are on holiday.  Of course not many of us even on holiday would wear see-through blouses or wear our pants unzipped.

[Tylergal]

Pages have  been loading slowly for me for a while.  Well, good luck, Anna, with your tree.  I have 3 decorated and I think that is it.  I am through.  I usually try to have more but this body is worn out and moreover my DH says he is not going back to the attic or the storage house another time to get decorations. 

[Puzzler]

Mos came out with guns ablazin'.

He said that he has Explosive new evidence.
He said that he had proof that Natalee was dead.
He said that the father was definitely involved.
He was willing to talk.
He gave us all hope and made us believe in him. (except San)

What happened to him?  Who got to him?
Just before the Kalpoes were released he suddenly canceled
a news conference and his next interview he blamed the
family, the media and the DEA agent. He was suddenly
like a different man.

Where is the explosive new evidence? 
How did he know that the Kalpoes disposed of the body?

It is all goofy!

You are so right!  I remain stunned by this and don't know what in the world to think now.

It's even gone from releasing the suspects to closing the investigation entirely.

Talking now as though Natalee just died from non-violence maybe in Joran's presence and the Kalpoe Body Disposal Unit just did a sort of unconventional internment of some sort or other that would require only minutes be served in jail so why bother with that trivial detail.

Every time he speaks of late, this becomes less and less a crime and less serious.

And yet nothing has really changed.  Natalee is still missing and her parents do not know what happened to her after she got in the car with the suspects.

Mind boggling!

I learned a long time ago that when something is "mind boggling" and seems all screwed up - it's because IT IS!  So...this is screwed up.  Means someone got to Mos, big time, or that Mos was putting out a big bluster to hopefully scare one of J2K into talking, or that Mos didn't know how corrupt the judge was and ended up having his on "mind boggling" experience.

.

[Nut44x4]

With all that has been going on of late, I have to wonder why in the world the vd Sloots and their evil cadre are all over the newspapers, preening and posing, pants unzipped, see through paraphernalia and all and generally seen as celebrating as though they are so happy that this young girl is still missing.

Is this not the height of callous behavior and poor taste?

They have no shame nor pride.

[Kermit]

******* and/or Klassend,

Would you look at that video again.
It looks to me as though he [Paulus] takes a sip from his drink,
It looks like a small pile of chips in front of him
then his right hand picks up chips off the blackjack table and then
he removes his hand from the table and under the table -  when the video goes fuzzy

Why would one remove chips from the table though if that is what I saw?

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3922731&affil=wlne



See his hand, watch it.

[Magnolia]

With all that has been going on of late, I have to wonder why in the world the vd Sloots and their evil cadre are all over the newspapers, preening and posing, pants unzipped, see through paraphernalia and all and generally seen as celebrating as though they are so happy that this young girl is still missing.

Is this not the height of callous behavior and poor taste?

They have no shame nor pride.

Eurotrash?

[Nut44x4]

lol...yeah, something like that!

[Kermit]

Mos came out with guns ablazin'.

He said that he has Explosive new evidence.
He said that he had proof that Natalee was dead.
He said that the father was definately involved.
He was willing to talk.
He gave us all hope and made us believe in him. (except San)

What happened to him?  Who got to him?
Just before the Kalpoes were released he suddenly canceled
a news conference and his next interview he blamed the
family, the media and the DEA agent. He was suddenly
like a different man.

Where is the explosive new evidence? 
How did he know that the Kalpoes disposed of the body?

It is all goofy!

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anything new?

TACOPINA: Not for my eyes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Are there new wiretaps?

TACOPINA: There are new recordings.





Hans Mos
ABC NEWS
November 26, 2007

Hans Mos, Aruba's chief prosecutor, told ABC News he believes the the new evidence makes the case against the three men stronger than it was two years.

"We are convinced if we had had this evidence we have now they would not have been released by the court at that time," Mos said.



We Learned Something New In The Natalee Holloway Investigation
by Greta Van Susteren Gretawire.com

CAR WASHING - Greta interviews off camera the neighbor to Kalpoe brothers who saw them washing their car the night
Natalee disappeared.

_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
Tacopino said directly: "the homes were bugged and one of the Kalpoe brothers was taped admitting he had returned later to the beach that night"





MOS: New evidence is evidence that we didn't have before. As simple as that.

new evidence gained after the moment that they were released,

the evidence is just material, but they have to be confronted with that because they were never confronted with those findings.


MOS has stated:
 
we had to confront them with it. They are suspects, each of them, and they are witnesses against the other, possible. So we have to question them.

That's what we are aiming for. And if this information given by them shows that they are not involved, then they will not be prosecuted. But we don't think that that's the case.

We are not desperate.

we cannot disclose it at this time.

It's not just one person taking that decision. We take it as an organization, and meaning (ph) an organization, we (INAUDIBLE) with -- there are 45 people here, and they contribute one way or another in this case,


decision to re-arrest these three suspects was a decision taken by 10 lawyers, by 10 lawyers sitting around a table (INAUDIBLE) whole afternoon, being presented the new material.


The execution of the whole investigation is done by police officers, who were, in this case, after the Dutch were involved, handpicked from the Netherlands






Greta:

So it's physical evidence, something you can actually touch or feel

JQK: Or see. Sure.

Greta: or some scientific thing

JQK: Absolutely

Evidence - JQK

"I can't specifically answer but i think the evidence that they have their hands on now will do a lot to clarify the timeline, the whereabouts, the actions and where everybody was that night and the time it was when they were at certain places and what was going on."


THEN KELLY STATED
The report of significant new incriminating evidence was misleading," Kelly said. "It was the same evidence or lack of evidence they had from the very beginning."
_______________________________________

Dave Holloway: “There is always hope of finding Natalee alive; however, police are saying to look in the sea”
http://tinyurl.com/2yh3b8

[Port Valerie]

With all that has been going on of late, I have to wonder why in the world the vd Sloots and their evil cadre are all over the newspapers, preening and posing, pants unzipped, see through paraphernalia and all and generally seen as celebrating as though they are so happy that this young girl is still missing.

Is this not the height of callous behavior and poor taste?

Well, Anna, that's one thing no no one would ever accuse the vdS of, having class.  Had they class, would they allow their kids to hang out (with) (without) them in a local gambling casino?  Would they befriend Julia Renfro?  Would Joran have hung out with the PIMPS that he did?  Would he have worn that same checked blue shirt for weeks on end?  Would Anita have gone out in public with a see-thru blouse?  Would Paulus have dared wear pants that were half zipped and s sweaty shirt?  Would they have chosen Joe Tacopino as an attorney and even if they felt it necessary, would they have had their picture made with him for what appeared a social event?

When people with class are on holiday, they can "slum" and still be trendy, but not the inhabitants of said place.  We all do things on holiday out of cultural interests that we might not do each day in our lives, but it appears the Sloots live like they are on holiday.  Of course not many of us even on holiday would wear see-through blouses or wear our pants unzipped.

I'm in Florida. Men wear "business casual" or "golf casual" instead of suits. It is possible to look very good without wearing a suit and lots of jewelry.

Question: Is everything in Joe T's wardrobe SHINY?

He seems to go from shiny suits in NY to shiny sportswear in the tropics. Topped off with shiny hair.

[Nut44x4]

Thought I'd bring this over from the front page while it is slow in here.
10061906, a frequent front page poster is leaving us.

10061906 on December 9th, 2007 1:33 pm This is my final posting but I will never let go of Natalee or the fact that Aruba killed her.
Justice was blinded by Aruba.

There are two reasons why Natalee cannot be found.
One: she is alive and being held captive somewhere.
Everything that followas is my opinion based on information that has been released..

Two: Natalee has passed on.
There were injuries to her that forensic evidence would lead to either her abductors or injuries she sustained; so she had to disappear.
It is more difficult to convict someone if there is no body.
If she is alive where is she? She could be any where in the world.
If she is dead where are her remains?
Are they in the Ocean? If she were taken out on a boat then more are dragged into the story.
No: When asked Joran tells us she is not in the sea.
Is she buried near the Fisherman’s Huts? No the ground is too hard to go below at least six feet: a back hoe would be required.
Was she cremated? It is a possible, but then more are dragged into the dirty secret.
So what is available that a body could disappear with the minimum of effort?
A ready made grave or crypt or a hole in the ground like and air shaft to a mine are a few.
From Satish’s statement. “I took it that he meant, if a corpse is found evidence could be found on the corpse that could lead to our arrest”. (some guilt is implied here). Sounds like Paulus knows the Kalpoes are only involved with driving Natalee someplace and is trying to implicate/intimidate them in what happened.
It is more like a threat. I know what happened to Natalee while she was with Joran; I know you guys only drove them around. I will get you attorneys but you have to stick to the story that you dropped Joran and Natalee off at the beach and don’t know anything more”. If not I can make you hang for her murder and burial.
Satish continued.
“This is not the first time that we have dropped young American girls off at their hotels, with we I mean my brother, Joran and I. This means that they have a taxi globe and impersonate a taxi cab.” Each weekend Joran is with us.” But just how many would fit in Deepak’s taxi? Maybe six persons at best.
Maybe only one drugged girl plus the three.
“Deepak and I dropped Joran and the missing girl at the beach north of the Marriot”.
IMO Joran then transferred Natalee into a waiting car or pick up truck and off to another destination.
There is also a reference to bringing a camera to Freddy.
Satish then blames Joran for Natalee’s disappearance.
That is where the K2’s leave the story.
At the time of Natalee’s disappearance; Jaime states that loco Stef is Joran’s girlfriend. However no where in Joran’s book does he mention her.
Joran says that Jaime’s father is never around for Jaime but Jaime says he picks his father up from work every night. Sounds like Joran and Paulus more then Jaime and his father.
Jaime states through Freddy he met Joran. Usually Joran, Freddy, Koen, Sander and me go out together. We go to Carlos and Charlie’s, Bahia, Tandra; etc. He knows Koen and Sander for over a year, plays poker (poke her) with them but does not know their last name.(?)
Sounds like they all had sex with a Natalee but at the time they did not know her last name; if you use “Thoughtprints”.
Joran mentions that Madison is hanging out with her boy friend and that Natalee and Ruth share the same twin bed and describes the room and room number.
Sounds like hidden cameras at the Holiday Inn and Van Cromvoirt could handle that. Perhaps Natalee sleeping with Ruth in his mind constitutes them being lesbians because men would not sleep that close together least they be called gay.
From Deepak’s statement.
“Joran was at that moment in time with a friend of us named Guido in the casino.”
So much for Guido saying he does not know Joran. Guido also hangs out with Andre. Deepak says Guido talks a little funny and may be gay. This was before Guido’s lawyer said that Guido was innocent because he is gay. He was the only one charged with heavy battery. Aruba did not want Guido back for murder; Posner wanted him for skimming the casino with Joran at the black jack tables.
(As an aside why are locals only permitted so many days in the casino. That makes no sense unless they are there money laundering.)
Remember Deepak says that Joran could only win back $100.00 of the $360.00 that was lost either by Ruth or Natalee. Joran says that $100.00 is the best he could do. How does he know that is the best unless that is the amount Guido can loose without arousing suspicion from the pit boss?
I could go on and on; but here are my final thoughts on what happened to Natalee. She was given a roofi by Satish at C and C’s. Remember Natalee, Joran and Satish disappeared for a while and Deepak could not find them. She was told that her friends that left earlier were already at a party and Joran would take her there when C and C closed and then afterwards take her back to the hotel.
The four left C and C’s and headed towards the Lighthouse. On the way they went to a secluded road near the Marriot where Joran helps Natalee out of Deepak’s car. The Kalpoes leave, because there are no girls for them. The friends had left C and C’s earlier then Natalee.
As Deepak pulls away there is a security guard dressed in black. Remember he added that to the story. Geoff could have had his VCB security uniform on and he and Joran placed a drugged and injured Natalee in his pick up.
They then proceed to take Natalee to where they will use her at the party. By this time Natalee realizes she is in trouble but then the roofi kicks in and she falls asleep on the way towards the Lighthouse (MALMOK)(?) Now where is this other party. How about Koen’s house.
Waiting there are Koen, Sander, Freddy, Max Arends Guido some of the local girls and girl friends and look who shows up but Joran’s girlfriend Loco Stef. Natalee enters the party half drugged half drunk. Joran throws her on a bed. Some how she gets Sander’s phone and gets off; “I don’t even know these people”. Of course not she expected to see her girl friends there; but they were back at the hotel.
They take Natalee as she is coming in and out of consciousness from the choke hold administered by Guido. He knows just how to do “Something Dreaming”
While this is on going Freddy is video taping everything.
From Deepak’s email. “We heard a lot of false alarms that she was dead, she was seen with two guys, her hair is cut and is red now.
Who killed Natalee? IMO someone who is just the opposite of Natalee’s blue eyes and blond hair.
Out of jealousy for Joran having sex with Natalee; willingly or not; IMO: Stef cuts Natalee’s hair and maybe stabs her with the scissors or hits her with something.
Her hair is now red from blood stains.
She is loaded in the back of Geoff’s pickup on a mattress from the Gottenbos. Remember there was no inclination that a crime happened there so the Gottenbos home would not be searched. Remember Alexander, Koen’s father would not permit the police to requestion Koen. Sander claims his phone was stolen so he would not have to account for Natalee’s cry for help. The Gottenbos had no plans to but they sure got off the island fast. Remember the wife even had a dress shop. Remember Williem von Cromvoirt also sold his business and left the island. Paulus being in the legal system has no reason to leave because he is untouchable! Some how Van der Straaten sees a dead Natalee; Maybe he was called by Alexander before they took Natalee away.
Geoff and Joran place Natalee in Geoffs pickup and drop Natalee into a mine shaft. They then want to distance themselves from the scene. On the way to Logo Colony and Grapefield Beach they stop in Santa Cruz and Joran calls home. They continue to San Nicolas and get rid of the shirt, glasses, foam and bottle of cleaning fluid. Geoff drops Joran off at school and he sleeps there while Geoff drops off the mattress at Grapefield Beach and returns home to Paradera.
Shortly there after Geoff gets rid of his pickup and has a walk along the beach with another girl from C and C’s. Geoff notices the VCB and when Natalee’s name is mention; he immediately shuts up and takes the girl back to her hotel and leaves.
Basically you have a drugged injured girl; kidnapped and taken to the home of a Dutch Nataional; was raped and may have been mutilated by a jealous girlfriend and her body disposed of down a mine shaft.

“This (kidnapping a drugged tourist) has happened at least twenty times before and nothing ever went wrong. Most of the time they take the girl back to her hotel (Satish) to have sex with the incapacitated tourist in a hotel room (Joran).

If this is what happened how could Aruba resolve this case?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~