Natalee Case Discussion #704 12/11 - 12/18/2007

[blah]

mum,
I contacted Jean Akers in Cambodia, left a voice message and an email. She responded asking if she could help.

I asked her to confirm or deny the passage in Beth's book, twice, but haven't heard back from her.

sounds like a confirmation to me

[Nut44x4]

Dr. Baden's email is not easily found.  I've been looking but coming up empty handed.  Anyone know how I might email him?

No....but I was wondering if maybe Dana may know someone who could contact him and ask about Archer...

[AZLady]

Dr. Baden's email is not easily found.  I've been looking but coming up empty handed.  Anyone know how I might email him?

No....but I was wondering if maybe Dana may know someone who could contact him and ask about Archer...

That's a great idea.  I bet Dana would have contacts and resources we don't to trace Michael Archer's credentials.

[Altruist]

Wasn't there mention early on in 2005 about there being a fire in one of the rooms at the Marriott brought here by one of the Aruban's?  Don't think we ever had that confirmed or researched whether that was a function room or a regular room but in my minds eye I think it was mentioned that it was one of the higher floors of the building, maybe the 7th?

Maybe Lala's remembers as it may have been tying in with the reference of the 7th inferno.

[Buckeye]

Frank

Archive from December 2004.  You can use wayback machine and get exact date of change.  Scroll down from "outine" to Aruba info.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050401094533/http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1153.html

[blah]

I was thinking about the interview where Greta cornered Rep Spencer Bachus in a hallway after his meeting with the spokespersons from Aruba which included such brain trusts as Arlene and other AHATA shills.

His only word in response to Greta asking him what the Arubans were upset about was "Wiretaps" and he looked rather odd.

Now we have Mos saying that a DEA Agent was responsible for derailing the investigation.

Anyone think there is any connection in those two comments and if so, what it could be?

.

there is no connection to any sort of truth in Mos's words.  Mos is a dolt, trying to deflect responsibility to make Aruba look less culpable.

[Nut44x4]

I'd bet Joe T. was Archer's Lawyer in those court cases 

[Dayhiker]

The kickbacks from the drug trade/money laundering/gambling to Oduber, Rudy Croes, and others are huge.  Mos works for the Dutch, but when he is assigned to Aruba, he has to live under the Aruban political system.  And, if the Aruban political system does not want this case prosecuted, then they will strong arm Mos to shut down the prosecution.  If he really wants to prosecute this case, Mos needs to call in the big guns for help.  I don't think he will do that as he doesn't appear to have the backbone for it.  Unless this is going on behind the scenes, which is a possibility.

I have serious doubts about the Dutch PTBs wanting to prosecute the case for very much the same reason Aruba doesn't, their image. Prostitution and many drugs are legal in Holland (did you know they were the only country in the EOC to vote against a ban of GHB?) and they have been criticized for their open laws for many years.

If the truth is known in Natalee's case this would only confirm what many people think about their current laws. Their image is on the line here and I think they want the case to go away just like the Arubans. I also think they will do everything they plan to keep the case files, all however many tons of them there are now, from ever seeing the light of day because they clearly implicate the van der Sloots and Kalpoes as well as a corrupt bunch of government officials and Dutch judges who foiled the case.

[Tylergal]

Wasn't there mention early on in 2005 about there being a fire in one of the rooms at the Marriott brought here by one of the Aruban's?  Don't think we ever had that confirmed or researched whether that was a function room or a regular room but in my minds eye I think it was mentioned that it was one of the higher floors of the building, maybe the 7th?

Maybe Lala's remembers as it may have been tying in with the reference of the 7th inferno.

I had heard about rooms being "ripped apart" and redone at the HI about the time Beth arrived.  I also had heard about the Inferno, but seems to be mixing oranges and apples here, but the whole damn Aruba is a fruit and nut salad with criminal dressing.

[Magnolia]

mum,
I contacted Jean Akers in Cambodia, left a voice message and an email. She responded asking if she could help.

I asked her to confirm or deny the passage in Beth's book, twice, but haven't heard back from her.

sounds like a confirmation to me

A representative of our own State Department at a celebration of
the release of a suspect in the murder of an American tourist.....
talk about politically incorrect!!

[Anna]

mum,
I contacted Jean Akers in Cambodia, left a voice message and an email. She responded asking if she could help.

I asked her to confirm or deny the passage in Beth's book, twice, but haven't heard back from her.

sounds like a confirmation to me

Wait a minute!  I thought it was the Dutch, just the Dutch and only the Dutch doing this sort of thing.

You don't suppose that some who are supposed to be working FOR Americans really aren't or don't quite have their heart in it, now do you?

When we sent the information contained in the Murder and Crime Thread to some of these folks, their response was at best indifference.

I think MsMarple may have at least gotten a reply which is more than I received.  However, ever wonder why it is so hard to get even a travel advisory for Aruba?  How can you when the local reps of this country deny there is any problem at all.

So ponder just briefly a situation wherein there is no response or assistance from our own consulate.  Hard to believe, isn't it?

.

.

[Observer]

I think that PVDS had direct knowledge of major dirt that certain Aruban ministers and Govt officials were a part of. He spent many years working for the Govt,Prosecution office and even the 3 years as a Judge in training. When he says he would tell more but it would hurt too many people,he didnt mean the dirty cops and friends that helped early in the case. I think it was a direct threat about the wide scale corruption,murders,money laundering or whatever else he had knowledge of.  The truth about NH would expose everyone from the Chief of Police to the Minister of Justice. No doubt in my mind Rudy Croes and the Aruban Govt are up to there eyeballs in this to make sure the truth is never revealed but I still think PVDS was holding major dirt on people.

It's only speculation to say PVDS was in on premediated rape and murder but why would he lie and say he was at home when there is video of him being at the BJ table and talking to Natalee? After 8PM on a sunday night and he is drinking and gambling..Did he just learn that he failed and would never be a judge? Was it a night  to drink and be devious when Anita and the younger kids were away? Or does he feel responsible for letting Joran do anything he likes including drugging and preying on tourists and locals. Maybee that is why he lied about being at home at 8PM but I doubt it.

I think back to the two different people that PVDS told the story about Natalee hitting her head and drowning in very early June 2005. Amazing that this is never brought up when discussing the case on TV.  Not sure what happened but someone didn't want to cooperate like JAN VDS said. I think he was already in damage control and they were working on a it all being a accident. I think after the failed attempt to frame two innocent men they did try to work on a outcome. Not only was Natalee hard to recover but I don't think PVDS had any intention of his son or himself being behind bars for any reason. Since no resolution could be made between the guilty parties and the Aruban Govt they decided to Cover it up and never look back. Deny,Lie and blame the victim.

[Dayhiker]

mum,
I contacted Jean Akers in Cambodia, left a voice message and an email. She responded asking if she could help.

I asked her to confirm or deny the passage in Beth's book, twice, but haven't heard back from her.

sounds like a confirmation to me

A representative of our own State Department at a celebration of
the release of a suspect in the murder of an American tourist.....
talk about politically incorrect!!

Very sick of her and she should be called out on it. I agree with Blah here, by not answering Frank's inquiry (she is a paid public servant of the US, they supposedly answer to the people who pay their salaries) she may as well have confirmed it.

[Dayhiker]

there is no connection to any sort of truth in Mos's words.  Mos is a dolt, trying to deflect responsibility to make Aruba look less culpable.

Agree. Have we once heard Hans Mos speak to the validity, or lack thereof, of the original investigation and court cases that followed? Has Mos ever once questioned why the same judge that released the three suspects is still releasing them? No, he rolled over.

Mos is just a puppet for the powers in Holland that want the case to go away. He came to put on a show and now he has high-tailed it back to the motherland just like all the other creeps involved in the case.

[Frank]

I just find it shocking that JQK hasn't demanded to know how they know Natalee is dead? Again, this is akin to holding her hostage.

How many aruban officials have said that and yet never been confronted to show the proof? I count at least 4 or 5.

[Tylergal]

Our governor did endorse and signal a boycott with a formal meeting with  Beth & Jug.  However, governors have a voice in international affairs, but a voice that is heard only statewide, so it is to no avail whatsoever that he did this, except that I admire him for having the fortitude to stand up and be counted.

[Tamikosmom]

there is no connection to any sort of truth in Mos's words.  Mos is a dolt, trying to deflect responsibility to make Aruba look less culpable.

Agree. Have we once heard Hans Mos speak to the validity, or lack thereof, of the original investigation and court cases that followed? Has Mos ever once questioned why the same judge that released the three suspects is still releasing them? No, he rolled over.

Mos is just a puppet for the powers in Holland that want the case to go away. He came to put on a show and now he has high-tailed it back to the motherland just like all the other creeps involved in the case.

Actually ... Hans Mos is justifying the former investigation and ... judges.  He is implying that the reason the suspects where released from detainment in the past was because the "new" evidence he has accumulated was not available.

Janet

++++++++++++++++++


http://sendtofriend.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3912737

Hans Mos
ABC NEWS
November 26, 2007

Hans Mos, Aruba's chief prosecutor, told ABC News he believes the the new evidence makes the case against the three men stronger than it was two years.

"We are convinced if we had had this evidence we have now they would not have been released by the court at that time," Mos said.

[Magnolia]

Our governor did endorse and signal a boycott with a formal meeting with  Beth & Jug.  However, governors have a voice in international affairs, but a voice that is heard only statewide, so it is to no avail whatsoever that he did this, except that I admire him for having the fortitude to stand up and be counted.

What about Spencer Bachus?  He made statements in the beginning
in support of the families....then after "the Aruban Delegation"
met with him, he has been silent.  What did they say to shut him up?

[Anna]

I just find it shocking that JQK hasn't demanded to know how they know Natalee is dead? Again, this is akin to holding her hostage.

How many aruban officials have said that and yet never been confronted to show the proof? I count at least 4 or 5.

I thought this was one of the main reasons for meeting with Mos, to find out this information.  So I had thought that they did but were not discussing it for a reason.

But it could well be that this also falls into that category of nothing new being revealed meaning Mos did not share anything more in this regard after all.

And we were told it was new information that gave Mos this knowledge.  There have been several 180 degree turns during the course of this investigation.  Mos appears to be the latest one.  To know Natalee is dead, someone would have had to have physically seen her.  I can't think of another way this could happen.

And if they know she is dead for a fact, they have to know some other things besides just this one fact.

[Blue Moon]

I think that PVDS had direct knowledge of major dirt that certain Aruban ministers and Govt officials were a part of. He spent many years working for the Govt,Prosecution office and even the 3 years as a Judge in training. When he says he would tell more but it would hurt too many people,he didnt mean the dirty cops and friends that helped early in the case. I think it was a direct threat about the wide scale corruption,murders,money laundering or whatever else he had knowledge of.  The truth about NH would expose everyone from the Chief of Police to the Minister of Justice. No doubt in my mind Rudy Croes and the Aruban Govt are up to there eyeballs in this to make sure the truth is never revealed but I still think PVDS was holding major dirt on people.

It's only speculation to say PVDS was in on premediated rape and murder but why would he lie and say he was at home when there is video of him being at the BJ table and talking to Natalee? After 8PM on a sunday night and he is drinking and gambling..Did he just learn that he failed and would never be a judge? Was it a night  to drink and be devious when Anita and the younger kids were away? Or does he feel responsible for letting Joran do anything he likes including drugging and preying on tourists and locals. Maybee that is why he lied about being at home at 8PM but I doubt it.

I think back to the two different people that PVDS told the story about Natalee hitting her head and drowning in very early June 2005. Amazing that this is never brought up when discussing the case on TV.  Not sure what happened but someone didn't want to cooperate like JAN VDS said. I think he was already in damage control and they were working on a it all being a accident. I think after the failed attempt to frame two innocent men they did try to work on a outcome. Not only was Natalee hard to recover but I don't think PVDS had any intention of his son or himself being behind bars for any reason. Since no resolution could be made between the guilty parties and the Aruban Govt they decided to Cover it up and never look back. Deny,Lie and blame the victim.

I think Paulus VDS was paying the Dutch back for him not becoming a judge.  He knows everything that goes on that island so he figure what better way than to pay them back but screw up their case.  And he did it big time.