Natalee Case Discussion #704 12/11 - 12/18/2007

[A's Fever]

I been wondering about why the forensic scientist was looking for evidence.

Why would he expect to find evidence after over two years?  Why would he suggest that there is no evidence?  Maybe there never was evidence in the places he searched?   

If the places he looked two years plus after the fact, were not part of any crime scene, is it reasonable or logical to expect to find evidence that a crime had been committed?  Anyone else wonder about this?

Did he check the other places of interest?  The VDS compound?  The rocks?  The boat of Koen G.?  The Kalpoe yard?

Did he ask about the lies?  What are lies evidence of?

Wouldn't KLPD/ALE have taken any evidence?  Did he look where Joran reported leaving her?  Did he follow Joran's path at the beach?

What kind of evidence was this man looking for?  Anyone ask? 

Maybe he thought someone would leave a body lying around?   

My guess is he either didn't look for anything at all, just was there and wanted to look like he did something.  Or, he wanted to make sure there WASN'T anything around that was missed that would implicate Joran or Paulus.

Not to mention, any "forensic evidence" collected and submitted by the defense would be highly suspect due to contamination and chain of custody issues.  Except possibly in Aruban courts, where it might be admitted and even praised.

[Tylergal]

mum,
I contacted Jean Akers in Cambodia, left a voice message and an email. She responded asking if she could help.

I asked her to confirm or deny the passage in Beth's book, twice, but haven't heard back from her.

sounds like a confirmation to me
[/quote]

A representative of our own State Department at a celebration of
the release of a suspect in the murder of an American tourist.....
talk about politically incorrect!!
[/quote]


Very sick of her and she should be called out on it. I agree with Blah here, by not answering Frank's inquiry (she is a paid public servant of the US, they supposedly answer to the people who pay their salaries) she may as well have confirmed it.
[/quote]

maybe akers is asleep at the switch.  make your next inquiry to her former boss on aruba, and her boss in thailand.  if she's a friend of the sloot family, did she give recommendations and opinions to bacchus and maybe other politicians that followed the sloot line of "blame the victim".  does make you wonder, doesn't it?
dennisintn
[/quote]

These appointments are made for very well-off people.  The actual pay is small and all they get is a place to live and a title, so they must be independently wealthy people who "serve" in these positions.  These jobs are not meant to be anything but a paid holiday to the recipient of the job who has a vested interest in the country; unfortunately, these jobs have become anything but advocacy for American citizens abroad.  Disgusting as it may be, our tax dollars at work.  These people who "accept" (and beg) for these appointments (and I don't call them jobs because they are not), work hard at fundraising and cajoling members of the administration's staff's friends, cousins's aunt's nephew's cousin to get them so they can have a paid vacation in a country of their choice, where they prefer to be, anywhere outside of the USA. 

[robots]

joe t is very worried

very worried, he knows the real evidence that has not been allowed or has been hidden away.

if there was nothing, he would not have been screaming all day and night on FOX BULL CRAP news.

he would have just let the judges do their thing, its not like  joe t. did anything
to speed up the process of getting the RAPIST - KILLER out of jail any faster

nawwwwww... what you worried about huh ??  JOE????

hehehe.....joe makes me want to wretch my metal guts out

he knows. how he sleeps at night is a mystery

[Silverfox]

joe t is very worried

very worried, he knows the real evidence that has not been allowed or has been hidden away.

if there was nothing, he would not have been screaming all day and night on FOX BULL CRAP news.

he would have just let the judges do their thing, its not like  joe t. did anything
to speed up the process of getting the RAPIST - KILLER out of jail any faster

nawwwwww... what you worried about huh ??  JOE????

hehehe.....joe makes me want to wretch my metal guts out

he knows. how he sleeps at night is a mystery

That's because Joe knows the real trail leads directly from Joran to Papa Sloot...

Joran must have been Papa's delivery boy... The casino video indicates that possibility exists -- now if you culd just get the table audio...

[Spock]

How wrong we all were about Mos. Looking back, I think he was telling us that without a body, or a videotape, he would close the case. We just didnt hear him.

[Magnolia]

A CHANGING OF LOYALITIES.  WHY?

On June 5, 2005 ... initially Spencer Bachus upheld the family of Natalee Holloway in their contention that the FBI should be "heavily" involved in the Aruban investigation into the disappearance of an American citizen on the island of Aruba.  However ... six months later Bachus was singing the praises of the Aruban investigation following with the Alabama meeting with the Aruban delegation ... a meeting that the Aruban delegation objected to the family's respresentation being present.

Janet

++++++++++++++++


Spencer Bachus
BIRMINGHAM NEWS
June 5, 2005

U.S. Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Vestavia Hills, said Saturday there were circumstances surrounding Holloway's disappearance that warranted the FBI being heavily involved. He declined to give details.

"The circumstances were disturbing," said Bachus, who formally requested the FBI's involvement. "I can't get into it, but it's something the family is aware of. There was an immediate recognition that this was not simply a teen who wandered off."


Spencer Bachus
CBS NEWS
December 16, 2005

(AP) Rep. Spencer Bachus said he came away from a Friday meeting with Aruban officials with the sense that they plan to vigorously pursue leads in the disappearance of American student Natalee Holloway.

Bachus, R-Ala., whose district includes Mountain Brook, where Holloway is from, divulged little about the substance of the meeting, saying only it was a "frank and open discussion" and that Aruban authorities have devoted "tremendous resources" to the case.

"Their intention going forward ... is not to shut this case down, but to continue to pursue it vigorously," Bachus told reporters. "They do not consider it a closed case nor do they consider that they have a dead end. They continue to develop information and pursue leads."

Bachus and Alabama officials would not comment on exactly what Richardson, Aruban police analyst Renato Emerencia and Aruban attorney Arlene Ellis Schipper told them about the investigation.

John Quinlan Kelly, a New York-based attorney for the Holloway family, said Natalee Holloway's parents wanted him to attend the meeting, but the lawmaker's office told Holloway's family the Arubans objected to that


Spencer Bachus
On the Record w/ Greta
December 16, 2005

VAN SUSTEREN: Your gut reaction from the meeting?
Do you feel confident this is the right team to be leading the investigation or would you like to see some changes?

BACHUS: It’s a small island and they are handicapped by their experience.  But I was impressed with what they had done…at least the work product.  I have seen cases…I’ve been to hired to prosecute murder cases where there is almost no file.  I will say that the resources that have been devoted to this case are really probably more substantial than most murder cases here in the United States.

VAN SUSTEREN: Have there been any leaks that have possibly jeopardized the investigation?  You don’t have to go into any details of the actual leaks but did they tell you…are you convinced that anything said so far hurt the investigation?

BACHUS: It is my understanding they were running wiretaps and it was disclosed…

VAN SUSTEREN: Would that be the initial first week before the initial arrest?

BACHUS: This was in the first weeks, that is what they’re telling me.

VAN SUSTEREN: Since that time there have been no other leaks they told you about that hurt the investigation?

BACHUS: I think if anything it is the news media.  Your show and others that probably do result in more…inaudible

VAN SUSTEREN: Okay, thank you sir.

BACHUS: I don’t have any criticism of them...

Wish we knew why the quick turn on his heels....we should know........

That all makes Bachus sound a lot like Mos.  Such a quick change of tune.

[Anna]

I hope the Aruban prosecution is not going to try to claim that somebody "leaked" their top secret, special wiretapping as an excuse for anything.

That is hardly anything new or even something that should be unexpected.  Even Paulus had warned the suspects to beware of that possibility.

So is this what they are saying?  That someone gave away the fact they had wiretaps going and just spoiled all their crack investigative techniques?  Wire taps against cell phone kids is laughable to begin with let alone as an excuse for botching an investigation.

I do hope they will not even try something so childish as to pretend someone leaked their wiretaps just ruining it all.  That would be just beyond belief in this day and age.

But I don't put any lame attempt at an excuse past them at all.

MO

.

[Magnolia]

mum,
I contacted Jean Akers in Cambodia, left a voice message and an email. She responded asking if she could help.

I asked her to confirm or deny the passage in Beth's book, twice, but haven't heard back from her.

sounds like a confirmation to me

A representative of our own State Department at a celebration of
the release of a suspect in the murder of an American tourist.....
talk about politically incorrect!!
[/quote]


Very sick of her and she should be called out on it. I agree with Blah here, by not answering Frank's inquiry (she is a paid public servant of the US, they supposedly answer to the people who pay their salaries) she may as well have confirmed it.
[/quote]

maybe akers is asleep at the switch.  make your next inquiry to her former boss on aruba, and her boss in thailand.  if she's a friend of the sloot family, did she give recommendations and opinions to bacchus and maybe other politicians that followed the sloot line of "blame the victim".  does make you wonder, doesn't it?
dennisintn
[/quote]

These appointments are made for very well-off people.  The actual pay is small and all they get is a place to live and a title, so they must be independently wealthy people who "serve" in these positions.  These jobs are not meant to be anything but a paid holiday to the recipient of the job who has a vested interest in the country; unfortunately, these jobs have become anything but advocacy for American citizens abroad.  Disgusting as it may be, our tax dollars at work.  These people who "accept" (and beg) for these appointments (and I don't call them jobs because they are not), work hard at fundraising and cajoling members of the administration's staff's friends, cousins's aunt's nephew's cousin to get them so they can have a paid vacation in a country of their choice, where they prefer to be, anywhere outside of the USA. 
[/quote]

According to the state department scale, a Vice Consul is paid the same as an
O-3.(Captain)..Army, Air Force or Marines or between $5,000 and $6,000 per month

[texasmom]

Hello monkeys!  I don't get to post very often, my computer (second hard drive since this all began...) is so slow I usually give up after a few hours of catching up on the latest posts.  I agree that PVDS is involved in more than just the coverup of what happened to Natalee, the casino tape proves that to me among other things.  Why lie about seeing her there otherwise?  In the beginning I'd hoped and believed that Greta would see this through to the truth but I'm utterly disgusted with her now; it almost seems as if JVDS charmed her like the snake did Mogli in the Jungle Book so now she's "inclined" to believe him.  I thought she was much smarter than she's shown.  I also agree with many of the opinions I've read about Joe Taco';  he is a joke, and infuriates me everytime he opens his mouth.  Like his presence in Aruba made a difference one way or the other for his "client" .  I guess "anything" from the U. S. that will stand beside them is welcome at this point, and he seems like the type to stand up for "anything" that will get him some airtime.  I pray every day that there will be answers for Natalee's family.  I'm delighted about the deep water search and those that have undertaken this massive effort, they are a ray of hope that I believe we all so desperately needed at this point.  I hope they won't have all of the obstacles that the early seaches encountered and will remain steadfast in their mission.  Although justice in this case will probably never come here on earth, bringing Natalee home would definately make me rest a lot easier. 

[Nut44x4]

just a piece about Gottenbos and I've written about it, whenever I used his name in a title on my blog, the hits from the Hague were 5-10 times higher. All from different IP's.

I am not a big proponent of the connections to the Hague theories but this was something interesting.

The Gottenbos family is related to the Sloots and Anita has her connections, possibly Paulus too but my understanding is that those connections came via Anita early on.

I believe the Hague connections if for no other reason that the Dutch sat back on their fat asses and watched this whole investigation being run as a transparent scam and did nothing. Nobody can convince me they could not have stepped in if they had wanted. They are Aruba's tit.

I wonder who is updating the Wiki entries.  Maybe someone from the Hague?  IIRC, Princess Mabel and her husband were updating their entries in Wiki and got caught.

Maybe Anita is related to Mabel?  Or the Queen?

I don't know about that, but the Queen's primary physicians name is
Drs. J.A.P. van der Sloot lol.
http://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/content.jsp?objectid=2884&highlights=Sloot

[NYC_lover]

Good Morning all!

[Tylergal]

mum,
I contacted Jean Akers in Cambodia, left a voice message and an email. She responded asking if she could help.

I asked her to confirm or deny the passage in Beth's book, twice, but haven't heard back from her.

sounds like a confirmation to me

A representative of our own State Department at a celebration of
the release of a suspect in the murder of an American tourist.....
talk about politically incorrect!!

Very sick of her and she should be called out on it. I agree with Blah here, by not answering Frank's inquiry (she is a paid public servant of the US, they supposedly answer to the people who pay their salaries) she may as well have confirmed it.
[/quote]

maybe akers is asleep at the switch.  make your next inquiry to her former boss on aruba, and her boss in thailand.  if she's a friend of the sloot family, did she give recommendations and opinions to bacchus and maybe other politicians that followed the sloot line of "blame the victim".  does make you wonder, doesn't it?
dennisintn
[/quote]

These appointments are made for very well-off people.  The actual pay is small and all they get is a place to live and a title, so they must be independently wealthy people who "serve" in these positions.  These jobs are not meant to be anything but a paid holiday to the recipient of the job who has a vested interest in the country; unfortunately, these jobs have become anything but advocacy for American citizens abroad.  Disgusting as it may be, our tax dollars at work.  These people who "accept" (and beg) for these appointments (and I don't call them jobs because they are not), work hard at fundraising and cajoling members of the administration's staff's friends, cousins's aunt's nephew's cousin to get them so they can have a paid vacation in a country of their choice, where they prefer to be, anywhere outside of the USA. 
[/quote]

According to the state department scale, a Vice Consul is paid the same as an
O-3.(Captain)..Army, Air Force or Marines or between $5,000 and $6,000 per month
[/quote]

Exactly and how could they live in the lap of luxury in a foreign land, entertain constantly and maintain a residence that is comparable to the finest of homes in Veranda in several countries.  Not going to do that on $5000-6000 a month.

[wreck]

I think you can break down this case into 2 very distinct decisions by Aruba/The Netherlands.
The first June 10th, 2005 when very high Aruban officials (read Oduber) decided a COVER UP was better for Aruban tourism than revealing the sordid truth of just how vile and depraved the island actually is.
Second, after 2 1/2 years they had a chance to go back and erase the poor decision #1, but they chose AGAIN to go the cover-up rout.
I think the Dutch  really DID want to solve the case. However, when they actually found out just how corrupt the case was (all the way to corrupt DUTCH judges and officials) they too decided a cover-up was better than revealing to the world just how rotten the Dutch system is.

BOTH DECISIONS IF REVERSED WOULD HAVE BEEN FATAL TO THEM ANYWAYS. THEY WERE SCREWED EITHER WAY.

[Nut44x4]

Indeed......damned if they do, damned if they don't.

[Dayhiker]

I think you can break down this case into 2 very distinct decisions by Aruba/The Netherlands.
The first June 10th, 2005 when very high Aruban officials (read Oduber) decided a COVER UP was better for Aruban tourism than revealing the sordid truth of just how vile and depraved the island actually is.
Second, after 2 1/2 years they had a chance to go back and erase the poor decision #1, but they chose AGAIN to go the cover-up rout.
I think the Dutch  really DID want to solve the case. However, when they actually found out just how corrupt the case was (all the way to corrupt DUTCH judges and officials) they too decided a cover-up was better than revealing to the world just how rotten the Dutch system is.

BOTH DECISIONS IF REVERSED WOULD HAVE BEEN FATAL TO THEM ANYWAYS. THEY WERE SCREWED EITHER WAY.

You got it Wreck, this is what I was eluding to yesterday. Holland's image would be shot to hell if all the corruption were brought to light. You can bet the Dutch know how bad it is in Aruba and in their own country. Look at the major players in the crime and cover-up, all Dutch: Van der Sloots, Van der Straten, Karin Janssen, Bob Wit, Rick Smid, Dutch judges in Curacao, Rudy Croes, Guido Wever, Von Cromvoirts, Gottenbos.

A series of crimes by the Dutch and for the Dutch. Add Hans Mos to the list.

[sirensong]

They know she is dead, and they know it was accidental.  How do they know this, and why won't they tell the family.

[sb]

The guilty always scream the loudest about how "There is no evidence against me... (or my client)".

Anna, the "wiretaps" the people down there are upset about, have nothing to do with JK2 (or at least didn't when they were first initiated). These are for a different purpose and from all indications, they must have picked up "chatter" related to the case as a corollary consequence. It is the very fact that the US was wiretapping in Aruba in the first place that has them upset with us.

[Tylergal]

The guilty always scream the loudest about how "There is no evidence against me... (or my client)".

Anna, the "wiretaps" the people down there are upset about, have nothing to do with JK2 (or at least didn't when they were first initiated). These are for a different purpose and from all indications, they must have picked up "chatter" related to the case as a corollary consequence. It is the very fact that the US was wiretapping in Aruba in the first place that has them upset with us.

BINGO.

[Anna]

The guilty always scream the loudest about how "There is no evidence against me... (or my client)".

Anna, the "wiretaps" the people down there are upset about, have nothing to do with JK2 (or at least didn't when they were first initiated). These are for a different purpose and from all indications, they must have picked up "chatter" related to the case as a corollary consequence. It is the very fact that the US was wiretapping in Aruba in the first place that has them upset with us.

Yes, SB, I somewhat agree.  The Dutch/Arubans, however, know we are listening.  And we know they know.  And they know we know.

So I am not sure what the sudden outrage would be about unless it is the use of this surveillance against civilians not suspected of engaging in drug trafficking.

Could the Arubans really be so naive as to think we have that forward base which would primarily be a listening post for nothing?

Maybe Oduber and others have major cause for concern over what has been heard.

I wonder if something like this was actually used by ALE and is now considered some sort of illegally gotten evidence.  The DEA remark was interesting.  Mos said he had this and that and then suddenly he has nothing.

None of it makes any sense.

.

[truthseeker2]

They know she is dead, and they know it was accidental.  How do they know this, and why won't they tell the family.

Because it wasn't accidental.

Look, the very first lie they told made reference to Natalee hitting her head.  Other references to her hitting her head were made by Joran, Deepak and Paulus when telling other lies...like when Joran said they went swimming.  Early on Joran was setting the table for a head injury because he was not certain that she wouldn't be found.

I think Joran left her at the beach that night....under a bunch of sand.  It was a quick solution for a short time.  I think she was moved from the beach the next day/night.

This was no accident.