Natalee Case Discussion #704 12/11 - 12/18/2007

[wreck]

Earlier quote from DeTelegaaf

Quote:
The same Publ.Pros. office in Oranjestad earlier this month was the place where Mos in a deeply secret meeting of ten chiefs of police, detectives and prosecutors. The discussion had only one agenda item: Are we going to arrest Joran van der Sloot or not? The pros and cons were put next to eachother one by one. In favor of an arrest pleaded some new, very interesting research. The material was collected by a partly Dutch invetigationteam that from April this year held the old Holloway dossier to the light.
all10suspects response:

So 10 chiefs of police, detectives and prosecutors wanted Joran arrrested and 1 judge said no. The same judge that released them in 2005. Yet these are not the same 10 who had the arrested in 2005.
Can you say 1 judge is stopping everything. They should arrest j2k again and ask for a different judge who has not seen the case. Is this judge a friend of Pauls? I think he was. Can a judge be doing a freind a favor when so many people in power wanted Joran arrested? I think he can. ALl of these people that wanted Joran arrested in 2005 and 2007 can not be so wrong. Yet 1 judge could be. IMO! It proves that the ALE
and Da in Aruba for 2 year know that it goes back to j2k but a judge friend of Pauls has said no twice.



Makes sense to me.

side question:
Do we know the name of the judge that met with Lorenzo and released him???

[Buckeye]

Earlier quote from DeTelegaaf

Quote:
The same Publ.Pros. office in Oranjestad earlier this month was the place where Mos in a deeply secret meeting of ten chiefs of police, detectives and prosecutors. The discussion had only one agenda item: Are we going to arrest Joran van der Sloot or not? The pros and cons were put next to eachother one by one. In favor of an arrest pleaded some new, very interesting research. The material was collected by a partly Dutch invetigationteam that from April this year held the old Holloway dossier to the light.
all10suspects response:

So 10 chiefs of police, detectives and prosecutors wanted Joran arrrested and 1 judge said no. The same judge that released them in 2005. Yet these are not the same 10 who had the arrested in 2005.
Can you say 1 judge is stopping everything. They should arrest j2k again and ask for a different judge who has not seen the case. Is this judge a friend of Pauls? I think he was. Can a judge be doing a freind a favor when so many people in power wanted Joran arrested? I think he can. ALl of these people that wanted Joran arrested in 2005 and 2007 can not be so wrong. Yet 1 judge could be. IMO! It proves that the ALE
and Da in Aruba for 2 year know that it goes back to j2k but a judge friend of Pauls has said no twice.




Makes sense to me.

side question:
Do we know the name of the judge that met with Lorenzo and released him???

I don't recall that.  Maybe Destiny knows, from her phone call.  She seemed to have the lowdown before MF posted her garbage.

[Buckeye]

Translation of posting:

THE O. M.  LAYS AX IT ALMOST BY DOWN I KNOW ANYHOW CERTAINLY THAT DE BROTHERS KALPOE A LETTER HAVE GOTTEN VAN THE DE RIGHT COMMISSIONER THAT THEY VAN FURTHER ACTIONS RENOUNCE.  WITH THAT HAS BEEN CLOSED CONCERNED TO MY IDEA DE AFFAIR NATALEE WHAT THEM.  NOW DE LETTER YET VAN HANS AND THU.  IF I MORE NEIUWS HAVE WILL I THAT LET KNOW

HET O.M. LEGT BIJLTJE ER BIJNA BIJ NEER
Ik WEET IN ELK GEVAL ZEKER DAT DE BROERS KALPOE EEN BRIEF HEBBEN GEKREGEN VAN HET DE RECHTER COMMISSARIS DAT ZE VAN VERDERE ACTIES AFZIEN. DAARMEE IS NAAR MIJN IDEE DE ZAAK NATALEE AFGESLOTEN WAT HEN BETREFT. NU DE BRIEF NOG VAN HANSJE EN DOPJE. ALS IK MEER NEIUWS HEB ZAL IK DAT LATEN WETEN

http://renevannie.com/inhoud/kritisch/_kritisch.html


Did Kalpoe's get a letter releasing them??

[klaasend]

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/12/15/natalee-holloway-investigation-justice-minister-rudy-croes-i-was-not-warned-about-the-3-suspects-detention/


Natalee Holloway Investigation: Justice-minister Rudy Croes, “I was not Warned about the 3 Suspects Detention”

[klaasend]

I had a DREAM last night (my dreams never come true)

I dreamt there was an article in Diario this morning that said "someone" took a shot at Joran at his house and a "royal dutch marine" (wearing an all red uniform) saved Joran's life.  The article went on to say that the suspect got away but he looked like either Mark Furman or TJ ward.

I remember thinking in my dream WTF is the Royal Dutch Army doing protecting Joran?  Then I remember thinking, can't be Mark Furman, he's in Bolingbrook covering the Stacy Peterson case. 

[Red]

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/12/15/natalee-holloway-investigation-justice-minister-rudy-croes-i-was-not-warned-about-the-3-suspects-detention/


Natalee Holloway Investigation: Justice-minister Rudy Croes, “I was not Warned about the 3 Suspects Detention”

Was the case of Natalee Holloway by Aruban OM Hans Mos shut down in Aruba by the powers that be? Are people in the Aruban government still providing preferential treatment and running cover for Joran Van der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe and Satish Kalpoe? The recent actions of Aruban OM are beginning to make sense.

… the OM makes decisions and the minister must not work against it.  Some people are more worried about the reputation of the country than they are about solving criminal cases.  These seem to be subordinated to economic interests; you can then do away with the police and justice.” 

[klaasend]

http://www.amigoe.com/english/

CBA: Considerable decrease in cruise tourism

The Carnival Destiny came for the last time to Aruba in January.  The cruise ship used to bring more than 1000 tourists to the island.  But according to statistics, the arrival of other ships did not compensate the loss of these tourists.

ORANJESTAD – In the growth/drop percentages, a comparison is always made with the same period a year before.  The average hotel occupancy shows a growth of 2.4 percent in October of this year and increased to 75.9 percent, announced the Central Bank of Aruba in her monthly report.  The Cruise Tourism Authority (CTA) shows on the other hand a considerable decrease of the number of cruise ships and cruise passengers that visited Aruba in October of this year.   

17 Cruise ships visited Aruba this year in October, which is 44.4 percent less. The number of passengers was 25.858, 45.2 percent less.  Up till November in 2007, 316 cruise ships visited Aruba and the number of passengers was approximately 474.000, considering 1500 passengers per ship; a decrease of approximately 20 percent. 

The money quantity decreased again with 20.3 percent in October to 2.531.4 million florins.  The percentage of the decrease for just October was 0.8 percent.  The bank claims on the private-sector increased with 12.9 millions.  The business loans (12.5 millions) as well as mortgages (2.7 millions) increased in October, but the claims resulting from consumer credits decreased with 1.7 million florins (0.3 percent).

[klaasend]

http://www.radionetherlands.nl:80/news/international/5560857/Holloway-case-has-damaged-Arubas-reputation

Holloway case has damaged Aruba's reputation

Oranjestad (15 december) - The Aruban minister of justice Rudy Croes says the recent arrests in the Holloway case have damaged the country's reputation.

He says the case has discredited Aruba internationally. He sharply criticises the prosecution for the early release of the suspects.

Mr Croes also complains he was informed too late about the arrests of the Dutch student Joran van der Sloot and the Surinamese Kalpoe brothers. In response, the chief public prosecutor Hans Mos says the Public Prosecution takes the decisions in almost all prosecution cases and the minister should not interfere.

The Public Prosecution will announce at the end of the month whether it will continue or drop the case against the three suspects. Nineteen-year-old Natalee Holloway disappeared in May 2005 after a night out on Aruba.

[2NJSons_Mom]

http://www.radionetherlands.nl:80/news/international/5560857/Holloway-case-has-damaged-Arubas-reputation

Holloway case has damaged Aruba's reputation

Oranjestad (15 december) - The Aruban minister of justice Rudy Croes says the recent arrests in the Holloway case have damaged the country's reputation.

He says the case has discredited Aruba internationally. He sharply criticises the prosecution for the early release of the suspects.

Mr Croes also complains he was informed too late about the arrests of the Dutch student Joran van der Sloot and the Surinamese Kalpoe brothers. In response, the chief public prosecutor Hans Mos says the Public Prosecution takes the decisions in almost all prosecution cases and the minister should not interfere.
The Public Prosecution will announce at the end of the month whether it will continue or drop the case against the three suspects. Nineteen-year-old Natalee Holloway disappeared in May 2005 after a night out on Aruba.

The power struggle continues....how would Arlene explain this, today?   

[MuffyBee]

http://www.radionetherlands.nl:80/news/international/5560857/Holloway-case-has-damaged-Arubas-reputation

Holloway case has damaged Aruba's reputation

Oranjestad (15 december) - The Aruban minister of justice Rudy Croes says the recent arrests in the Holloway case have damaged the country's reputation.

He says the case has discredited Aruba internationally. He sharply criticises the prosecution for the early release of the suspects.

Mr Croes also complains he was informed too late about the arrests of the Dutch student Joran van der Sloot and the Surinamese Kalpoe brothers. In response, the chief public prosecutor Hans Mos says the Public Prosecution takes the decisions in almost all prosecution cases and the minister should not interfere.

The Public Prosecution will announce at the end of the month whether it will continue or drop the case against the three suspects. Nineteen-year-old Natalee Holloway disappeared in May 2005 after a night out on Aruba.

The headline should read "ARUBA SHOOTS SELF IN FOOT-AGAIN"  Why should the "case" be blamed?  Put the blame where it belongs...ARUBA 

[Blue Moon]

Are these people stupid?  Did they think they were home-free before the arrests?  Did they believe this had "gone away"?  I think not.  Yes, he is right it has damaged Aruba even further.  When will they get it in their heads this is not going away until they do the right thing--Investigate and give just to Natalee.  The people of Aruba needs to take a stand again J2K.  But I guess that is asking too much.

[Blue Moon]

Are these people stupid?  Did they think they were home-free before the arrests?  Did they believe this had "gone away"?  I think not.  Yes, he is right it has damaged Aruba even further.  When will they get it in their heads this is not going away until they do the right thing--Investigate and give justice to Natalee.  The people of Aruba needs to take a stand again J2K.  But I guess that is asking too much.

sorry--edit to correct Just to justice.

[Tylergal]

Politically, which equates to economically, Aruba, has once again shot itself in the foot, not by arresting the 3 amigos but neglecting to prosecute the 3 + 1 that Rudy is helping to protect.  He walks in the houses of the Dutch and the Arawaks, and he is killing his country. 

His legacy will be that of a man who failed to bring justice for Natalee and the declining number of visitors and florins to the island will be the vendetta of Natalee Holloway.  She is not asleep at the wheel and she speaks through her mother  Beth was right.  She is Natalee's voice.  Natalee is reeking havoc on Aruba.  Should a tsunami hit Aruba, they might want to name it "Natalee." 

Rudy Croes should take a lesson from the Clinton camp.  Tin ears are not a good thing politically.  The Clintons would throw their parents under the bus if it meant winning politically while Rudy is trying to save his buddy, Paulus. 

Rudy should have encouraged a thorough investigation and prosecution.  Otherwise, the island will be sunk.  The rats will be fleeing.  Once Julia Renfro packs her bags (I don't mean her eyes, either), you know it is gone.  It will not take long; her voice has been anything but favorable to the kind of treatments Americans might expect to find in Aurba.  Through that Refugee website, she has done more damage to Aruba than a tsunami. 

I love it when the rats start defending their position and rationalizing what they have done.  Keep it up, Natalee.  Keep speaking through your mother.  Aruba will soon have done to them what they did to you.

[Red]

What planet does Hans Mos live on? You are in Aruba, Hans, of course justice takes a back seat to tourism. Wake up!

"… the OM makes decisions and the minister must not work against it.  Some people are more worried about the reputation of the country than they are about solving criminal cases.  These seem to be subordinated to economic interests; you can then do away with the police and justice.”  (Hans Mos)

Hans ... I hate to be the first to inform you, but the police and justice have been done away with on Aruba. Didn't you get that memo?

[wreck]

What planet does Hans Mos live on? You are in Aruba, Hans, of course justice takes a back seat to tourism. Wake up!

"… the OM makes decisions and the minister must not work against it.  Some people are more worried about the reputation of the country than they are about solving criminal cases.  These seem to be subordinated to economic interests; you can then do away with the police and justice.”  (Hans Mos)

Hans ... I hte to be the first to inform you, but the police and justice have been done away with on Aruba. Didn't you get that memo?

Aruba made their bed -- they will have to live with it. Let the "Persistence" bring Natalee directly home -- no sharing ANYTHING with Aruba or aiding them in a dog and pony show "prosecution."
Thumbing our nose at Aruba and loudly shouting to the world that WE have taken control will do FAR more to damage them than for them to try to save face at this time with an "after-the-fact" trial.

[Silverfox]

Focus and Rudy Croes and Associates and focus of Judges Smid and Wit...

The true answer as to what happened to Nat therein lies...

And don't forget to arrest Paulus

[Silverfox]

Focus and Rudy Croes and Associates and focus of Judges Smid and Wit...

The true answer as to what happened to Nat therein lies...

And don't forget to arrest Paulus

Oh peanuts!!! typos... that should have read:

Focus on Rudy Croes and Associates and focus on Judges Smid and Wit...

The true answer as to what happened to Nat therein lies...

And don't forget to arrest Paulus

[Magnolia]

I had a DREAM last night (my dreams never come true)

I dreamt there was an article in Diario this morning that said "someone" took a shot at Joran at his house and a "royal dutch marine" (wearing an all red uniform) saved Joran's life.  The article went on to say that the suspect got away but he looked like either Mark Furman or TJ ward.

I remember thinking in my dream WTF is the Royal Dutch Army doing protecting Joran?  Then I remember thinking, can't be Mark Furman, he's in Bolingbrook covering the Stacy Peterson case. 

Klaas, it is because you are so sick that you have such dreams. 
Maybe they won't miss in your next one.
Hope you are better soon.

[Nut44x4]

Buskeda pa Natalee Holloway otro siman den awanan rond di Aruba..
BOTO PERSISTANCE TA YEGANDO ARUBA AWE DEN ORANAN DI MERDIA
 
ORANJESTAD(AAN):Den oranan di awe merdia e boto Persistence cu a Sali for di Jamaica ta yegando Aruba. E mester a yega diabierna den oranan trempan di anochi, pero mirando cierto contra tiempo durante e navegacion a haci cu e lo yega te awe den oranan di merdia.

Ta un boto di mas of menos 30 meter largo y a sali como dos siman pasa cu destino Aruba.E boto estilo Trawler ta specializa den busca den fondo di lama y ta un compania basta renombra.

Despues di tabata casi un siman na Jamaica e boto persistence a sali pa Aruba y su recorido lo mester tabata dos dia, pero e caminda pa Aruba no tabata uno facil pasobra e lama ta basta malo.

DIARIO lo keda pendiente pa su yegada na Aruba den oranan di dia awe diasabra.Te ainda no ta conoci si esnan di e boto Persistence a haya permiso pa por busca den awanan rond di Aruba y tampoco si cualkier miembro di e team investigativo lo keda abordo ora di buskeda den lama pa mira si e trabaonan di buskeda a cana corecto.
 http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/12/15/

I'll run it through the 'come across' translator...obviously he is talking about the Persistence...will see what I come up with.

[msmarple]

http://www.amigoe.com/english/   12/14/2007

I think both have been posted, but possibly not the Amigoe English version?

CBA: Considerable decrease in cruise tourism

The Carnival Destiny came for the last time to Aruba in January.  The cruise ship used to bring more than 1000 tourists to the island.  But according to statistics, the arrival of other ships did not compensate the loss of these tourists.

ORANJESTAD – In the growth/drop percentages, a comparison is always made with the same period a year before.  The average hotel occupancy shows a growth of 2.4 percent in October of this year and increased to 75.9 percent, announced the Central Bank of Aruba in her monthly report.  The Cruise Tourism Authority (CTA) shows on the other hand a considerable decrease of the number of cruise ships and cruise passengers that visited Aruba in October of this year.   

17 Cruise ships visited Aruba this year in October, which is 44.4 percent less. The number of passengers was 25.858, 45.2 percent less.  Up till November in 2007, 316 cruise ships visited Aruba and the number of passengers was approximately 474.000, considering 1500 passengers per ship; a decrease of approximately 20 percent. 

The money quantity decreased again with 20.3 percent in October to 2.531.4 million florins.  The percentage of the decrease for just October was 0.8 percent.  The bank claims on the private-sector increased with 12.9 millions.  The business loans (12.5 millions) as well as mortgages (2.7 millions) increased in October, but the claims resulting from consumer credits decreased with 1.7 million florins (0.3 percent).

 

OM has not warned me on time

Same as last time, a huge amount of media came to Aruba this time to cover the detention of the three suspects.

ORANJESTAD – Justice-minister Rudy Croes (MEP) says that he should have been informed earlier of the detention of the three suspects in the Holloway-case.  “Now that everything is back on the table, the reputation of Aruba is harmed again internationally.”

The case could have been dealt with more carefully if he was informed on time, suggested the minister.  “Was it well-considered to make the arrests?  If there were plenty of evident, they would not have been released.”  He considers the contact between him and the Public Prosecutor (OM) about the recent developments in the Holloway-case an abnormal working situation.  “As a matter of fact, I am ultimately responsible for this matter; the OM falls under my policy.  Doesn’t that mean that I should have been informed in advance?  There is no need for me to do anything any longer and we must save what can be saved.  Let’s drop the case as soon as possible.”

According to chief district attorney Hans Mos, the justice-minister, who as opposed to Parliament is politically responsible for the actions of the OM, was one of the first persons that were informed after the arrests. “He was immediately informed together with the prime minister.   Our scheme clearly mentions that.”  He says that it is however unusual to inform the minister in advance of an arrest.  “That only happened in very special cases that affect the public order and safety of a country, like with terrorist crimes.  In individual criminal cases like this one, the OM makes decisions and the minister must not work against it.  Some people are more worried about the reputation of the country than they are about solving criminal cases.  These seem to be subordinated to economic interests; you can then do away with the police and justice.”  Mos emphasized that the government and the justice-minister could have always contacted him about the case.  “But the minister has not once asked for an explanation on the arrests.  I would have done this with pleasure.”

Besides, the OM doesn’t want to continue dragging the case and has decided to set the deadline on December 31 of this year.  The prosecution is currently thinking over continuing or dismissing the case.  That all three suspects appealed to their right to remain silent after their arrest was an obstacle for justice.  That was also the reason why the judge has decided to release them from custody, because it didn’t serve any purpose.

RESEARCH SHIP DELAYED DUE TO OLGA

The unusual December storm in the Caribbean, Olga, has delayed the arrival of the research ship that Dave Holloway wants to bring to Aruba to search the seabed for the body of his daughter.  The management of Texas Equusearch ‘Mounted Search and Recovery Team’ cannot say when the search can start.  “Keep praying”, said the relief organization on the website.  The tropical storm Olga has already caused the death of 8 persons in the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico.