Natalee Case Discussion #704 12/11 - 12/18/2007

[klaasend]

Hi Monkeys,
I want to thank Klaas for getting me back in the discussion since I was briefly in here during the summer of 2005. I have followed the events and discussions sporadically these two and a half years while riding the emotional rollercoaster with you all. I read this morning and may be confused, but did someone on the list mention that the FBI is questioning two people? I hope this does not start a rumor but would like to know.

Thanks,
Darivah

Hi Darivah - not sure what you are referring to.  Can you tell me where you read that?  If here which thread/page?  TIA

[darivah]

Howdy right back at ya!
Right now I'm sitting up here in Northern Illinois watching the freezing rain accumulate on the trees, feeling depressed about the disgusting turn of events for Natalee and her loved ones. Sometimes I have to just stop "lurking" and walk away from the computer because of my anger. As a parent and grandparent this whole debacle infuriates me! Then, I have to come back to
"lurk" more because your blog offers the most insight into this mess. Thanks Monkeys.

Darivah

[snoopy]

There is a reason why Joran put into a statement that Sander wanted him to go out on the boat that evening.  Why?

Why was Koen said to be so afraid that he was sleeping with his parents?  Why is Koen so protected? 

Herein lies the answers.

JMHO

[Nut44x4]

Hi Everybody.

Something I never thought about.  What if Joran stating that Sander wanted him to go out in the boat was a cover in case the boat was spotted out in the water. 

1.  Sander ask Joran to go out in the boat earlier in the evening.  Joran says no, but after he did something to Natalee, and remembered that Sander was out on the boat.  So joran calls Sander and tells him to bring his boat up close to shore because he's got a problem, and needs to get rid of something (Natalee).  Sander beaches the boat so Joran can come aboard with a deceased Natalee.  Maybe Koen was with Sander and freaked out.  Maybe that is why all the protection for Koen.  He's the weak link.  In the process Sander losses his phone.

2.  Sander never ask Joran to go out on the boat earlier in the evening.  Maybe that story was in case Sander and the boat were seen on the water?

So many lies.
Did that make any sense?

Actually yes...this does make sense Snoopy.

[snoopy]

Howdy right back at ya!
Right now I'm sitting up here in Northern Illinois watching the freezing rain accumulate on the trees, feeling depressed about the disgusting turn of events for Natalee and her loved ones. Sometimes I have to just stop "lurking" and walk away from the computer because of my anger. As a parent and grandparent this whole debacle infuriates me! Then, I have to come back to
"lurk" more because your blog offers the most insight into this mess. Thanks Monkeys.

Darivah

I hope the freezing rain lets up for you.  We had our share the other nioght.  Thankfully we were just South of it.  South of St. Louis that is.  Don't lurk.  Jump right in.  Scared Monkeys is the best place to be.

[darivah]

Klaas,
I seem to have read that the FBI was questioning a couple of guys in a thread on your site, but may have gotten into an old discussion from 2005 or 2006. That's why I said I didn't want to start a rumor. I don't think it was during December, and hope I haven't started some kind of rumor. I will try to find the comment, but may not be able to do it easily. I do know it was on this site and none of the others that might be out there. I apologize if I have confused anyone (usually I'm the one always confused lol).

Darivah

[klaasend]

Klaas,
I seem to have read that the FBI was questioning a couple of guys in a thread on your site, but may have gotten into an old discussion from 2005 or 2006. That's why I said I didn't want to start a rumor. I don't think it was during December, and hope I haven't started some kind of rumor. I will try to find the comment, but may not be able to do it easily. I do know it was on this site and none of the others that might be out there. I apologize if I have confused anyone (usually I'm the one always confused lol).

Darivah

Must be OLD because I don't remember anything new.

[darivah]

Could the FBI come into the case if Mos doesn't take it to trial? Have we heard if that is a possibility?

[Spock]

Could the FBI come into the case if Mos doesn't take it to trial? Have we heard if that is a possibility?

I doubt it, they would have to jump through dozens of procedural hoops, and still they would need a Dutch Judges approval to question the suspects. As I see it, the best way for the family to get the suspects on the stand, is to sue them in Aruban civil proceedings. They would need a Judges approval to get the case to trial, but if they succeeded, the suspects could not remain silent on the stand. However, to get that far, they will need for this ocean search to succeed.

[klaasend]

Could the FBI come into the case if Mos doesn't take it to trial? Have we heard if that is a possibility?

I think the verdict is out on that one.  Not sure if anyone really knows for sure.  I do believe it was Art Wood that said they could, but who really knows?

[Spock]

There is a reason why Joran put into a statement that Sander wanted him to go out on the boat that evening.  Why?
Why was Koen said to be "so afraid that he was sleeping with his parents"?  Why is Koen so protected?  Herein lies the answers.
JMHO

I really believe that is just hearsay. One person said he heard from another. At this point, I dont think Koen was on the island. However, by his own admission, Sander and the boat had plans Sunday evening.

[snoopy]

There is a reason why Joran put into a statement that Sander wanted him to go out on the boat that evening.  Why?
Why was Koen said to be "so afraid that he was sleeping with his parents"?  Why is Koen so protected?  Herein lies the answers.
JMHO

I really believe that is just hearsay. One person said he heard from another. At this point, I dont think Koen was on the island. However, by his own admission, Sander and the boat had plans Sunday evening.

Agreed.  What about Dave's book where he says that as he was driving past Koen's house that when Koen saw Dave he dove behind the couch or something like that?  Sorry I can't remember exactly how Dave said it.  I let a friend borrow the book.

[Silverfox]

I have said many times on this site that Sander's phone being 'stolen' is way to coincidental.  When questioned he immediately said "stolen"...not lost.  If they can ping everyone else's cell phone they should be able to ping this 'missing' phone.

1. Sander invites Joran to a party on his father's boat 05/29
2. Natalee is missing 05/29-05/30
3. Sander's phone is missing 05/30

Yes, it would be interesting to know who was on that boat.

The phone is interesting in that I believe if Sander was with Joran and Deepak those two could have used Sander's phone to send that IM 'conversation' (that was not really a conversation in terms of one person says something and then the other person says something) through their computers.  Those IM's were not conversational.  Deepak posted 3 then Joran posted 3.  Could Deepak have sent his 3 and then handed the phone to Joran to post his responses???

Perhaps J2K took drugged Nat to a party on the boat? Nat woke up and found phone and tried to call home and got caught? and something went bad?

[fran]

Hi all! I know it's been a while since I last posted, but RL sometimes gets in the way. I've been reading though and know you monkeys have been holding the fort, even though it seems things are not going too well for the good guys.

Any whoo, I was just wonderin', I posted this at my other home, websleuths, and I couldn't seem to get anyone interested in it. Frankly, I think it's a good piece of the puzzle. Since Joran has used the excuse he left Natalee 'alone' on the beach because he had school the next day and he had a test. He did very well too, he says. Oh, and JoeT has repeated that several times around the airwaves. But, but,........yesterday I was looking for something, LOL, on the best site for archived info regarding the Holloway case, scaredmonkeys , and I came across this on PVDS 6/23/05 statement. Paulus is talking about getting Joran up for school on Tuesday, the day after the MB group arrived on the island.

It seems to me that Joran had the entire day on Monday, BEFORE Beth et all arrived to scurry around the island and take care of business.

What do ya think?

TIA,
fran

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=459.0
 
 woke up Valentijn and Sebastian and I also said to Joran that he
had to go to school even though he wasn't in the mood to go. I know
that I insisted that he should go. A reason for that might be that he had
already not gone to school on Monday. I then left for work. I think it
was approximately 7.30 hours when I called the headmaster of the
International School. I had told him that Joran had not slept all night
and asked for him to be understanding just in case Joran was feeling
sleepy.

[Silverfox]

Could the FBI come into the case if Mos doesn't take it to trial? Have we heard if that is a possibility?

Yes.  But as I understand it this only happens if Aruba "officially" closes the case.  Then the FBI can step in ith it's own investigation.  This is why I believe Mos is as sly as a fox on this one.  like a warning shot to the baddies that he might be "closing" the case on December 31 -- thus opening the door for the FBI, and remember the US government can certainly go after baddies in other countries -- even by kidnapping (recent news about abducting Brits if needed).

[Nut44x4]

There is a reason why Joran put into a statement that Sander wanted him to go out on the boat that evening.  Why?
Why was Koen said to be "so afraid that he was sleeping with his parents"?  Why is Koen so protected?  Herein lies the answers.
JMHO

I really believe that is just hearsay. One person said he heard from another. At this point, I dont think Koen was on the island. However, by his own admission, Sander and the boat had plans Sunday evening.

Agreed.  What about Dave's book where he says that as he was driving past Koen's house that when Koen saw Dave he dove behind the couch or something like that?  Sorry I can't remember exactly how Dave said it.  I let a friend borrow the book.

Dave's Book pg. 177
"Art Wood and I drove by Koen's house and saw a boat around the side and Koen and his father were out there working on it. The front door was wide open and we decided to drive by a few times. One time, Koen was walking into the livingroom and he saw us going by slowly, so he barrel-rolled and hid behind the couch."

[klaasend]

Hi all! I know it's been a while since I last posted, but RL sometimes gets in the way. I've been reading though and know you monkeys have been holding the fort, even though it seems things are not going too well for the good guys.

Any whoo, I was just wonderin', I posted this at my other home, websleuths, and I couldn't seem to get anyone interested in it. Frankly, I think it's a good piece of the puzzle. Since Joran has used the excuse he left Natalee 'alone' on the beach because he had school the next day and he had a test. He did very well too, he says. Oh, and JoeT has repeated that several times around the airwaves. But, but,........yesterday I was looking for something, LOL, on the best site for archived info regarding the Holloway case, scaredmonkeys , and I came across this on PVDS 6/23/05 statement. Paulus is talking about getting Joran up for school on Tuesday, the day after the MB group arrived on the island.

It seems to me that Joran had the entire day on Monday, BEFORE Beth et all arrived to scurry around the island and take care of business.

What do ya think?

TIA,
fran

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=459.0
 
 woke up Valentijn and Sebastian and I also said to Joran that he
had to go to school even though he wasn't in the mood to go. I know
that I insisted that he should go. A reason for that might be that he had
already not gone to school on Monday. I then left for work. I think it
was approximately 7.30 hours when I called the headmaster of the
International School. I had told him that Joran had not slept all night
and asked for him to be understanding just in case Joran was feeling
sleepy.

Yes, we discussed that at length some time ago.  I agree that Joran didn't go to school that day and had all day to clean up and get rid of evidence.  Also we know that Satish missed school that day too.  The "aced an exam" is BS, there were no exams that day.

[Nut44x4]

For any who wish to review a bit on Sander by SM front page...
http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/09/01/natalee-holloway-investigation-sander-gottenbus-june-16-2005-statements/

 How does Sander Gottenbus know every minute detail of Joran Van der Sloot’s “lie”? The Holiday Inn and the initial story that Joran told was a fraud? Not that Joran would not have told him roughly what he claimed to have occurred that night. The problem is in the details.........

[Nut44x4]

Could someone tell me the fathers 1st name??

[klaasend]

Could someone tell me the fathers 1st name??

Alexander