Natalee Case Discussion #704 12/11 - 12/18/2007

[Anna]

Well, I certainly respect what they are doing but I am not sure why they allow this to be on their site.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1833372172418566821

That's disgusting.

Clearly some people's taste is all in their mouth.

If that's not offensive content, I don't know what is.  YouTube should have taken that down.  I wonder what assbite made it in the first place.

.

[Observer]

Hi everyone! I talked to John this morning.  It was a rather rushed conversation because the boat was sailing out to where it needs to be!  The next few days will be spent doing preliminaries.  To us lay people, it just means they can't go out throw the equipment in and start.  I do not know what all is involved in the Preliminary work (this would be a good time for Oceanographer Kyle to come on and explain).  However, John said this work takes a day or two! Hopefully following this work, by Wednesday, the equipment will be in full gear!  He still says that things are going smoothly! So I pray for the continuation of that in order to do the job!

I didn't get a chance to read him any posts today since it was a rushed telephone call, but I will! And I thank you for all the wonderful words of encouragement for all those helping!

Have a good day! And thanks you so much for the continued prayers and blessings! You are wonderful people! God Bless!

[msmarple]

http://www.24ora.com/

Hoben ta perde su bida despues di confrontacion 
Policial 
Sunday, 16 December 2007 

Diadomingo marduga na altura di e parking lot di Arubus a surgi un problema na unda un dado momento un persona sospechoso lo mester a tira riba un polis. E bala lo a alcansa e polis. E hecho cu e sospechoso di (19 aña) tabata tin un pistol dirigi riba e polis un otro polis e polis a disidi na tira e hoben aki. E consequencia di esaki ta cu e sospechoso a fayece na e sitio mes. Click read more pa algun imagen. E polis a wordo hiba cu urgencia pa hospital y inoficialmente nos por comprone cu e sospechoso a wordo tira den su cabez. Investigacion a sigi te mainta y comisario di polis a disidi na sera tur club/cafe nocturno den Oranjestad.

Online Pap translation:

young is lose his life after of confrontacion policial
sunday, 16 december 2007

diadomingo marduga at height of the parking lot of arubus owing to surgi one problem at where one dado instant one person sospechoso will have to owing to throw on one police. the ball will owing to alcansa the police. the mature cu the sospechoso of (19 aña) was have one pistol dirigi on the police one another police the police owing to disidi at throw the young here. the consequencia of this is cu the sospechoso owing to fayece at the sitio self. click read more for some imagen. the police owing to wordo take away cu urgencia for hospital y inoficialmente we can comprone cu the sospechoso owing to wordo throw in his cabez. investigacion owing to sigi till morning y comisario of police owing to disidi at close all club/cafe nocturno in oranjestad.

[wreck]

Hi everyone! I talked to John this morning.  It was a rather rushed conversation because the boat was sailing out to where it needs to be!  The next few days will be spent doing preliminaries.  To us lay people, it just means they can't go out throw the equipment in and start.  I do not know what all is involved in the Preliminary work (this would be a good time for Oceanographer Kyle to come on and explain).  However, John said this work takes a day or two! Hopefully following this work, by Wednesday, the equipment will be in full gear!  He still says that things are going smoothly! So I pray for the continuation of that in order to do the job!

I didn't get a chance to read him any posts today since it was a rushed telephone call, but I will! And I thank you for all the wonderful words of encouragement for all those helping!

Have a good day! And thanks you so much for the continued prayers and blessings! You are wonderful people! God Bless!

I imagine they would need to "calibrate" the equipment first before heading to the deeper waters.

[Anna]

And this post on the front page of SM:

Caroline wrote:

Typical Aruba - Melissa - Comparing a country of 100 thousand which claims to be safe to a country of 300 million which never makes that claim.

Is Aruba trying to keep it secret about the shooting death Saturday night of the 18 year old at Carlos and Charlies?

Dec 17, 12:50 PM

Do we know who was shot this time?  And where on the premises this happened?  No crime, indeed. 

Come across on that one!

.

[Anna]

comisario of police owing to disidi at close all club/cafe nocturno in oranjestad.


Huumm, had to close the rest of the clubs and night spots to prevent the violence from spreading, I suppose.

.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Odd first time post at RU  - just posted today - this person registered at RU on 12/11/07:

I wish to remain anonymous. I have mad a comment on the Greta wire of Fox news as well.  this case of Natalee Holloway is a tale of  people overlooking the obvious. Natalee is dead and has been dead since the night/early morning of her disappearance. if she tried to runaway ,she lacked any necessary documents ( e.g. passports,money,contacts). She was a teenager, not Jason Bourne with special ops training. if she were sold into white slavery,then those people would have made a ransom demand very early on. I have two theories about what happened based on news accounts and the book her father wrote about Natalee:

theory A.: Natalee went to Carlos N Charlies bar and met with Joran and his friends. With or without their knowledge, someone put something into her drink ( e.g. cocaine). she then leaves the bar with them. they may have gone to the California lighthouse. they may have gone to see a yacht. or they may have gone to see the shorline. they may have had consenting sex. then something happened. either she had a spell, a seizure, or a falling out due to what was placed in the drinks.at that juncture, joran and friends panickd. Joran then contacted his father,the lawyer, and told him what happended. the father then tells Jotran and friends to leave the scene. he will take car of it. Joran's father then places a call to a high ranking member of the government ( e.g. Chief of police, Magistrate, Government minister)with known connections to organzied crime ( i.e. the cartels) and  he then asks for a favor. The high ranking member of the government in return for either money or some other valuable item,then contacts their contact with organized crime. This would be a big shot not a local distributor. The organized crime figure then sends in to Aruba a 'cleaner" or a 'cleaning lady". In mob parlance a 'cleaner" or a 'cleaning lady" is a person who can dispose of a body without a trace. Many techniques can be used in a short period of time ( e.g. concentrated nitric acid, a visit to a meat rendering plant/abbatoir, or even a speed boat taking the body hundreds of miles into the ocean. Natalee is disposed of without a trace( its a professional job) --probably by 12 Noon that day. Defintely she would be disposed of within 24 hours --before the official time when she is reported missing. Without the body,Joran's father knows that the case can not go to trial. Joran is at least partially truthful in his TV interviews that he does not know what happened. it probably was a reaction to the drinks Natalee got at Carlos n Charlies ( ie. "spiked with cocaine either as a prank or that it would be an aphrodesiac ). all the searches are meaningless and no further adjudication can proceed

theory B: Natalee again goes to the bar. she meets with Joran and friends. she leaves with them. then ,after their meeting/tryst, Joran and  friends leave her at the fish huts / Mariott area in the early moring hours. then natalee has the reaction and collapses. she is observed by either law enforcement or probably a petty,small time criminal. the latter then calls the high ranking government type and reports what happened. The high ranking type then realizes what would happen to tourism if this got out. so he again calls the organized cirme type to dispose of the body professionally. the cleaner then is called in and Natalee is disposed of before the 24 hours when she was officially reported as missing.withiout the body,no trial can occur and memories soon fade.

now then to substantiate either theory

1. have Joran and friends submit to a lie detector test and ask if he called his father that night
2. investigate Joran's father. does he have a habit of getting 'junior ' out of trouble in the past. 'cleaning up his messes",so to speak. have their been any transfers of money from the van der sloot family to anyone,esp in the government around that time. any phone calls or  phone records from that early ,morning hour or night available?
3. see what cartels  control that territory, ask DEA intelligence
4. as a remote chance see the US court house in Miami,FL/US attorney. why? because around the time Natalee disappeared ( about 2003-2005) a very high ranking  South American drug lord, Mr. Archangel de Jesus Montoya was arrested. He may have been arrested prior to Natallee's trip to Aruba. However he would have the necessary knowledge of how the cartels operate in the region and  could be asked hypothetically how such a 'disposal" job would be handled. Mr. Montoya is currently in the Federal corrections department at Krome avenue detention center  in the Miami,FL area. see the US attorney and also Mr. Montoya's attorneys  along with the Federal corrections department before you proceed with this suggestion. He may not want to talk because of self incrimination and also he does not want to be branded a 'snitch or stool pigeon" in the prison world. However  he could be asked hypothetically with his attorney  and his knowledge of the area would be exceptional.

I feel sorry for Natalee and her family. However I do not recommend anyone travel to the Caribbean anymore. they do not exactly like 'white people" and the dislike "Norte americanos" even more. the region has changed from its playful atmosphere of just a few years ago.

If I were a father or a grandfather of a teenager, I recommend some sort of more constructive high school graduation trip like a bicycle trip through  Nova scotia or even  a European tour. if they must go to Caribbean or Mexico because of  the lower drinking age,then try a more structured environment like Jack tar villages resorts, Puerto plata resorts  in Dominican republic or even Club med resorts . usually "wine flows" and the atmosphere is less ominous. Most tourists stay on the compound and do not go into town for entertainment.. Natalee trusted the wrong people and got into trouble very quickly . The area is not the US and I would be careful traveling there.  I do not wish to be identified.Suffice it  to say that  I am a professional in the forensic community. I am not looking for an interview or a brief 15 minutes of fame.. Just whoever reads this: 1),be careful  traveling in the Caribbean.and 2)that Natalee's  body has long ago been disposed of professionally, in my humble opinion. best wishes

This is an interesting post, Klaasend.  Makes me wonder why this person registered at RU...my older son and husband have believed similar theories from day one....

[Anna]

Bargain Prices, less than $100 per day:


Hotel Name:  The Mill Resort & Suites 
  Kids Welcome 
Rating:     
Destination:  Aruba/Palm Beach 
Departure Date:   Jan 20, 2008 
Return Date:   Jan 27, 2008 
Days:   7 
Starting Price:   $572.00 per person, airfare not included
 

But it keeps that occupancy rate up high in appearance.

.

[Anna]

Off to work and lurk. . . .keeping my fingers crossed and prayerful for the success of the search.

.

[Mere]

Reading at the boat site.....

UPDATE: 17-Dec - 1215 hrs: The Persistence has begun the search

Good afternoon and praying for the best.

[klaasend]

Reading at the boat site.....

UPDATE: 17-Dec - 1215 hrs: The Persistence has begun the search

Good afternoon and praying for the best.

Hi Mere - thanks!

[Dayhiker]

Bargain Prices, less than $100 per day:


Hotel Name:  The Mill Resort & Suites 
  Kids Welcome 
Rating:     
Destination:  Aruba/Palm Beach 
Departure Date:   Jan 20, 2008 
Return Date:   Jan 27, 2008 
Days:   7 
Starting Price:   $572.00 per person, airfare not included
 

But it keeps that occupancy rate up high in appearance.
.

That is bargain basement. The occupancy rate doesn't mean beans if they are giving rooms away.

[Dayhiker]

And this post on the front page of SM:

Caroline wrote:

Typical Aruba - Melissa - Comparing a country of 100 thousand which claims to be safe to a country of 300 million which never makes that claim.

Is Aruba trying to keep it secret about the shooting death Saturday night of the 18 year old at Carlos and Charlies?

Dec 17, 12:50 PM

There goes the neighborhood. 

[SunnyinTX]

Well, I certainly respect what they are doing but I am not sure why they allow this to be on their site.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1833372172418566821

 Hi to all....been down with whatever is going around....trying to read when I can and keep up on the Perseverance....thankfully the boat/crew made it to Aruba safely through some very rough seas and  praying they are able to bring Natalee home....This video is sick.....just sick.....I'd like to slap the spit out of that girl

[Observer]

Do we know who was shot this time?  And where on the premises this happened?  No crime, indeed. 

Come across on that one!

.

Anthony Gomes 19 yrs old died in the parking lot outside of a nightclub. Not sure which one but they mention gang activity outside of Dakotas.

[SunnyinTX]

Well, I certainly respect what they are doing but I am not sure why they allow this to be on their site.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1833372172418566821

 Hi to all....been down with whatever is going around....trying to read when I can and keep up on the Perseverance....thankfully the boat/crew made it to Aruba safely through some very rough seas and  praying they are able to bring Natalee home....This video is sick.....just sick.....I'd like to slap the spit out of that girl

shoot even with spell check I can't get the name right...going back to bed....y'all knew what I meant I hope...

[Nut44x4]

O/T ...sort of...
Easy come easy go....
Second US convict set free by Appeals Court
by The Daily Herald

Posted: Dec 17, 2007 14:06 UTC

 
PHILIPSBURG - The second of two convicts who were handed over to local authorities by the United States government last week has also been released by the Joint Court of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba.

Orean Matthew was released by the Joint Court last week Thursday. Hector Miguel Arrindell was set free one day later.

Matthew and Arrindell were both tried and found guilty of drug smuggling and money laundering charges by the US Justice Department in Miami, Florida, but they exercised their right as Antilleans to serve their sentences in St. Maarten.

Both appeared before the Joint Court last week Wednesday to have their US sentences converted into jail terms applicable under Antillean law.

Arrindell was sentenced in a US court to seven years and six months for smuggling 30 kilos of cocaine, and for money laundering. The Attorney General had requested the Joint Court to sentence him to 70 months for both crimes.

The Joint Court sentenced him Friday to three years for cocaine smuggling and 18 months for money laundering. Considering the time already spent in a U.S. prison and the scheme for early release, the Court decided that Arrindell had already done his time and ordered his immediate release.

Matthew had already been released on Thursday for the same reasons. Matthew was sentenced in the US to 18 and 57 months, of which he had already served three years and two months.
http://news.caribseek.com/Sint_Maarten/The_Daily_Herald/article_60030.shtml

[Nut44x4]

Looks like someone died in their jail cell...no name given.
http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=599&Itemid=1

[Nut44x4]

Do we know who was shot this time?  And where on the premises this happened?  No crime, indeed. 

Come across on that one!

.

Anthony Gomes 19 yrs old died in the parking lot outside of a nightclub. Not sure which one but they mention gang activity outside of Dakotas.

Picture of the dead guy??
http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=600&Itemid=1 

[klaasend]

Atraco arma riba dos persona         
Monday, 17 December 2007 



Dialuna merdia un atraco arma lo mester a pasa riba dos persona. Atracadornan lo mester a horta $ 6000 y bay cu e auto di e persona nan. Lo mester trata di persona cu arma di candela y arma blanco di apariencia scur. Informacion no confirma ta indica cu e atraco a pasa serca di un banco unda cu e hendenan a drenta den e auto di e personanan aki y a laganan pafor di e auto na Matividiri. Ora nos tin mas informacion concreto lo nos trece esaki.
 

Through translator:

atraco arm on two person monday,
17 december 2007

monday afternoon one atraco arm will have to owing to happen on two person. atracadornan will have to owing to steal $ 6000 y bay cu the car of the person they. will have to deal of person cu arm of candela y arm blanco of apariencia dark. informacion not confirma is indica cu the atraco owing to happen serca of one banco where cu the hendenan owing to enter in the car of the personanan here y owing to laganan abroad of the car at matividiri. hour we have more informacion concreto will we trece this. come across


Note:  Joran must still be in Aruba