Natalee Case Discussion #704 12/11 - 12/18/2007

[Tylergal]

My theory is that Koen was afraid to go out on the boat,
so Sander went.  Koen got nervous and called Sander's
cell phone and they talked while the boat was on the way
back in to the marina.

interesting theory

Koen was not on the island. However, sander did invite Joran out on the boat that night.

Not sure that I agree about that. I just read something, and will have to go back and find it, about Dave saying Koen's alibi was broken. I was reading some excerpts and interviews about Dave's book at the time and it may have been a Fox interview.

Mum, I don't think that is  a known fact that he was not in/on Aruba.  I think that was "spin" from the Bon Dia machine.

[MumInOhio]

My theory is that Koen was afraid to go out on the boat,
so Sander went.  Koen got nervous and called Sander's
cell phone and they talked while the boat was on the way
back in to the marina.

interesting theory

Koen was not on the island. However, sander did invite Joran out on the boat that night.

Not sure that I agree about that. I just read something, and will have to go back and find it, about Dave saying Koen's alibi was broken. I was reading some excerpts and interviews about Dave's book at the time and it may have been a Fox interview.

Mum, I don't think that is  a known fact that he was not in/on Aruba.  I think that was "spin" from the Bon Dia machine.

Thanks Tyler....Was looking for something else in the old things I'd saved. Just skimmed right over it but recalled it when I saw Spock's post.

[Frank]

klaas,

are we going to get Jossy's article translated? the ones posted last night?

[Nut44x4]

@BFN post by momja
http://www.al.com/opinion/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/opinion/119762383154590.xml&coll=2
A dog and pony show' heralds the apparent end to the investigation into the death of Natalee Holloway in Aruba
Friday, December 14, 2007

So this is how the investigation into Natalee Holloway's disappearance ends: a "dog and pony show," as the lawyer for her parents put it.

Aruban authorities in late November arrested the three men Holloway was last seen with as she left a bar in Aruba on May 30, 2005, on the last night of a trip celebrating her graduation from Mountain Brook High School. Authorities had detained Joran van der Sloot and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe early in the investigation, but they were released in September 2005.

This time was supposed to be different.

Prosecutors cited "new incriminating evidence," which they did not disclose, from cell phone calls and text messages between the brothers and van der Sloot. The three, who denied any role in Holloway's disappearance, were arrested on suspicion of involvement in voluntary manslaughter and causing serious bodily harm that resulted in her death. Prosecutors also said they had enough evidence to prove Holloway is dead.

Now we know why prosecutors didn't disclose the "new incriminating evidence."

There was none. Aruban judges released the three suspects for lack of enough evidence. And if there wasn't enough evidence to hold them, there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute them.

"The report of significant new incriminating evidence was misleading," said attorney John Q. Kelly of New York, who represents Beth Holloway and Dave Holloway. "It was the same evidence or lack of evidence they had from the beginning."

If prosecutors' bumbling behavior weren't so infuriating, it might be entertaining in a morbid, "black comedy" sort of way. But an 18-year-old girl is almost surely dead, and authorities have failed to find out who is responsible and prosecute them.

Kelly said he expects an announcement later this month there will be no prosecution of van der Sloot and the Kalpoes. Aruba's chief prosecutor told The Associated Press he will close the case by month's end unless his office finds enough evidence to charge someone with a major crime.

The Holloways' anger and pain must be palpable. For as much as they have been through over the past 2½ years, at least there was some small consolation in this latest episode of inept Aruban authorities. Kelly had warned the Holloways not to believe there was new evidence in the case, so they weren't surprised when the three suspects were let go.

With no justice coming in their daughter's death, that's not a whole lot.

[klaasend]

klaas,

are we going to get Jossy's article translated? the ones posted last night?

I'm sure we will, either directly from Jossy or maybe Getagrip will have time. 

[Nut44x4]

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Someone in Aruba is quite interested in our Backseat Banger discussion back in April...
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1058.460

[Lala'sMom]

Hotshots,

I see you are reading.  Do you know if Alex Matthews is in jail in this country?  I read on another forum someone claiming that he is and that he is claiming to be tortured by our government.  That doesn't sound right.  I knew he had visa problems because of known prior convictions but did not think he was in jail.

Since you have met him, I was hoping you would know.

.

I had to laugh when Anita complained that Joran's Human Rights were being violated in jail: This was in ref. to him not having a Bible (wonder if she included the lack of the press coverage he wanted as a violation of HR?)

I laughed because I had read, if I remember correctly, the Paulus was the right had man to King (aka Voking I think) who was a head of the KIA when Matthews was beat up et al... I had heard that Paulus was the one who had all all the evidence of wrong doing and it went "poof"... as in covering up and disposing of evidence.

Mr. Matthews rights for human dignity were only restored in the Intl. (am I right?) World Court of Human Rights and Civil Rights. I know I don't have the correct name here but it one of the Courts in Hague.

My question would be to Mr. Matthews how much of a role did Paulus play, helping King that lead and cover up of the brutal things that happened to you.

Maybe King came to the aid of Paulus at his house to block the search of his house as a payback to Paul helping King many years before.

Shango Says: June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time

Shango Says: June 27th, 2005 at 9:51 pm
DirtyHand walks with the Babylons, the Arawaks and is consort to the fallen elder
The gods are talking

[msmarple]

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2007/12/14/

ZUNDRAMENTO FORMAL DEN CORTE, ENTRE
SOSPECHOSONAN DI ATRACO
 
ORANJESTAD(AAN): Diahuebs Carmichael A. R, Roderick O.A, Dennis A.W y Judith D.D a presenta dilanti di huez, despues cu nan a wordo acusa di a comete u atraco riba un supermercado na Angochi, riba 28 di December 2006.Huez durante tratamento di e caso a trece dilanti cu um empleado die supermarket a declara cu na dado momento dos homber a drenta cu cara tapa, unda cu uno tabata tin un arma di candela den su man y e otro tabata tin un tas.

Esun cu e arma di candela a bisa “todos abajo, dinero yo quiero”.Segun e Chines, e criminalnan a bay cu 1400 florin, diferente paki di sigaria, algun siga, dos botter di Black Label y varios carchi di telefon.

Huez a splica cu e caso aki a bin dilanti door cu un di e sospechosonan a basha abao.Ta asina cu R.O.A tabata core e auto di su mama, ora cu e grupo a bay comete e atraco.Despues di e atraco, D.W a core e auto, pero nan a haya nan mes den un accidente.Na momento cu e accidente a sosode, D.W y C.R a core bay for di e auto, pa nan no topa cu polis.

Ora cu mama di R.A a haya problema cu seguro, unda cu nan no kier a paga e daño material, pasobra R.A no kier a bisa ken tabata core e auto, el a dicidi di bin dilanti lunanan despues pa bisa e berdad.

R.A  a declara na polis cu el a wordo yama pa J.D y ora el a yega eynan, el a puntre pa busca C.R. D.W tabata na e cas caba.Na dado momento nan a bay core rond y e grupo a dicidi di comete un atraco.Ta durante cu nan tabata coriendo rond, el a haya sa di nan intencion.

Huez a puntra R. si el a wak e arma y el a bisa cu si, pero e no por a wak bon si tabata di berdad of di coi hunga.Na Polis J.D a bisa polis cu e no tabata sa di a atraco y cu ta den auto el a tende nan ta planea algo.

C.R sinembargo a declara na polis cu Judith a bisa Dennis cu lo ta bon idea pa comete un atraco, mirando cu e tabata tin mester di placa pa paga awa y coriente.C. a splica cu el a bay cas y no tabata tin intencion di participa na e atraco, pero nan a bin buske toch.

Tabata e y Dennis kendenan a drenta e supermercado.Dennis tabata tin e arma y e tabata tin e tas.
Segun C., en total nan a logra haya 400 florin.El a splica cu el a haya un parti masha chikito, pasobra mayoria di e placa a bay pa Judith.

Den corte Dennis W. a bisa huez cu e no tin motibo pa gaña y cu e kier conta e berdad manera cu e ta.El a splica cu e tabata kedando na cas di Judith, pasobra e tabata fugitivo y tabata desea di entrega su mes dia 4 di Januari.

El a splica cu Judith a bin cu e idea pa nan comete un atraco, pa yuda cu awa, coriente y cuminda. Judith lo a bise cu Carmichael ta un bon persona pa comete e atraco hunto cune.Despues cu Carmichael, Dennis y Judith a palabra, Judith a dunanan paña pa bisti y nylon pa tapa nan cara.Dennis a splica huez cu den cura di Judith el a coi un arma di coi hunga di yiu di Judith, pa e bay comete e atraco cune.

El a sugeri pa nan atraca Angochi Supermarket. Segun Dennis, ta den auto Roderick a haya sa di a atraco. Roderick mes despues a kita number for di e auto net prome cu e atraco. Ora nan a yega na e sitio, Dennis y Carmichael a drenta e supermercado y segun Dennis el a punta e arma den laira y a bisa “todo abajo, dinero quiero”.

Dennis tambe a bisa cu ta solamente 400 florin nan a haya, di cual mayoria parti a bay pa Judith. Den corte Roderick y Carmichael a confirma e storia di Dennis, pero Judith a keda para ariba un no. Na dado momento a cuminza un zundramento formal den corte entre Dennis y Judith. Judith ta para ariba cu nan tur ta gaña riba dje y Dennis tabata bisa cu e no tin ningun motibo di gaña.

Huez mes a puntra Judith dikon e ta kere cu tur e 3 acusadonan tabata gaña riba dje. Fiscal na su turno a hasi algun pregunta, pa haya sa si e arma di candela tabata di berdad y cu si ta berdad cu Dennis lo a cumpra esaki for di un hende.

Pero Dennis a keda insisti cu e arma tabata di coi hunga.Pa R.O.A fiscal a pidi un castigo di 15 luna, pa J.D.D el a pidi 3 aña, mientras cu pa D.A.W y C.A.R, el a pidi 3 aña y mey. Huez a bisa cu e lo duna su veredicto dia 21 di December.

Online Pap translation:

zundramento serious in corte, among sospechosonan of atraco

oranjestad(aan): diahuebs carmichael a.r, roderick o.a, dennis a.w y judith d.d owing to present fast of huez, after cu they owing to wordo acusa of owing to comete u atraco on one supermercado at angochi, on 28 of december 2006.huez during tratamento of the caso owing to trece fast cu um employee die supermarket owing to declara cu at dado instant two man owing to enter cu cara tapa, where cu uno was have one arm of candela in his hand y the another was have one bag.

esun cu the arm of candela owing to tell “todos abajo, dinero yo quiero”.segun the chinese, the criminalnan owing to bay cu 1400 guilder, various package of sigaria, some siga, two botter of black label y several carchi of telephone.

huez owing to splica cu the caso here owing to come fast door cu one of the sospechosonan owing to pour abao.ta so cu r.o.a was core the car of his mother, hour cu the are owing to bay comete the atraco.despues of the atraco, d.w owing to core the car, but they owing to achieve they self in one accidente.na instant cu the accidente owing to sosode, d.w y c.r owing to core bay for of the car, for they not come across cu police.

hour cu mother of r.a owing to achieve problem cu seguro, where cu they does not owing to pay the damage material, because r.a does not owing to tell that was core the car, past owing to dicidi of come fast lunanan after for tell the berdad.

r.a owing to declara at police cu past owing to wordo calling for j.d y hour past owing to arrive eynan, past owing to puntre for busca c.r. d.w was at the cas end.na dado instant they owing to bay core rond y the are owing to dicidi of comete one atraco.ta during cu they was coriendo rond, past owing to achieve know of they intencion.

huez owing to ask about r. if past owing to look at the arm y past owing to tell cu if, but the not can owing to look at good if was of berdad or of coi play.na police j.d owing to tell police cu the not was know of owing to atraco y cu is in car past owing to hear they're planea algo.

c.r sinembargo owing to declara at police cu judith owing to tell dennis cu will is good idea for comete one atraco, mirando cu the was have have to of coin for pay water y coriente.c. owing to splica cu past owing to bay cas y not was have intencion of participa at the atraco, but they owing to come buske yet.

was the y dennis kendenan owing to enter the supermercado.dennis was have the arm y the was have the bag. according c., provided that overall they owing to succeed achieve 400 guilder.el owing to splica cu past owing to achieve one part very diminutive, because majority of the coin owing to bay for judith.

in corte dennis w. owing to tell huez cu the not have motibo for lie y cu the wanted count ; the berdad as cu the is.el owing to splica cu the was kedando at home of judith, because the was fugitivo y was desea of entrega his self day 4 of january.

past owing to splica cu judith owing to come cu the idea for they comete one atraco, for help cu water, coriente y cuminda. judith will owing to bise cu carmichael is one good person for comete the atraco together cune.despues cu carmichael, dennis y judith owing to word, judith owing to dunanan cloths for dress y nylon for tapa they cara.dennis owing to splica huez cu in cura of judith past owing to coi one arm of coi play of child of judith, for her bay comete the atraco cune.

past owing to sugeri for they atraca angochi supermarket. according dennis, is in car roderick owing to achieve know of owing to atraco.
roderick self after owing to less number for of the car just first cu the atraco. hour they owing to arrive at the sitio, dennis y carmichael owing to enter the supermercado y according dennis past owing to punta the arm in air y owing to tell “todo abajo, dinero quiero”.

dennis also owing to tell cu is only 400 guilder they owing to achieve, of cual majority part owing to bay for judith. in corte roderick y carmichael owing to confirma the storia of dennis, but judith owing to stay stop upstairs one not. at dado instant owing to cuminza one zundramento serious in corte among dennis y judith. judith is stop upstairs cu they all is lie on dje y dennis was tell cu the not have none motibo of lie.

huez self owing to ask about judith dikon the is believe cu all the 3 acusadonan was lie on dje. fiscal at his file owing to make some question, for achieve know if the arm of candela was of berdad y cu if is berdad cu dennis will owing to cumpra this for of a.

but dennis owing to stay insisti cu the arm was of coi play.pa r.o.a fiscal owing to ask one castigo of 15 month, for j.d.d past owing to ask 3 year, while cu for d.a.w y c.a.r, past owing to ask 3 year y mey. huez owing to tell cu the will give his veredicto day 21 of december.

* * *

5 AÑA EXIGI, PA DOMINICANO CU A TUMA REVANCHA,
PA PERDIDA DI SU WOWO
 
ORANJESTAD(AAN): Diahuebs na corte a tuma lugar e caso den cual Lindo W naci na Santo Domingo, a wordo acusa di intencionalmente kita bida di un persona (G.S Hernandez), na Augustus 2007.

Rapport di polis ta mustra cu riba 11 di Augustus na dado momento Lindo a bay e discoteca Funcal y a los tres tiro riba G.H.Un di a balanan a alcanze na su braza y e otro dosnan a dal e den pecho. Afortunadamente despues cu dokter a trata e victima, el a constata cu ningun di e balanan a alcanza un organo, pues bida di G.H no tabata na peliger.

Henter e problema a cuminza, pa motibo di un otro problema.Ta asina cu dia 24 di December durante un fiesta pa Playa Pabao, un amigo di L.W a haya problema cu amigonan di G.H.Durante e problema, tiramento di botter a cuminza.

Un di e botternan a dal den wowo di L.W y el a wordo herida seriamente.Asina serio cu el a perde su wowo.Segun L.W, tabata G.H kende a tira e botter.Mirando esaki el a bay entrega keho na polis, despues cu su amigonan mes a bay caba eynan.Segun L.W, un agente di recherche a bin papia cune na hospital tambe.

L.W a declara cu el a cay den un depresion mirando cu el a perde su wowo y pa colmo el a ripara cu autoridadnan no a hasi nada tampoco.El a haya mas rabia y un dia ora cu el a topa G.H na Funcal, el a puntre pa bay pafo pa nan papia.Ora cu G.,H a bise cu e no tin nada di papia cune, el a saca su arma y a tira 3 biaha riba dje.

Den corte 3 amigo di L.W a testigua cu di berdad nan a entrega un denuncia y cu dos di nan a firma un papel tambe na warda di polis.Un di nan a bisa cu el a bay cu un agente di recherche pa mustre unda G.H kende a tira e botter, ta biba.Asina mes nada a wordo hasi.

E recherche cu kende nan lo a papia tambe a aparece como testigo.Huez a puntre di e caso y el a bisa cu e no ta corda si di berdad ela  bay hospital pa papia cu e victima.El a bisa si cu dilanti di warda di polis el a papia cu L.W, pero esey tabata algun luna despues di e incidente.

El a splica L.W cu e mester a bin warda di polis for di basta tempo.Segun e ex recherche, un biaha cu L.W a bin y puntra pe, e no tabata tey y su colega a bisa L.W pa e entrega un denuncia pero e no a hasie.

Segun e ex agente di recherche, e no a tuma ningun declaracion manera amigonan di L.W a declara.
El a bisa si cu ora e amigo a mustre e compleho di apartamento unda G.H lo ta biba, e no a bise den cua apartamento e lo ta bibando y mirando cu e no tabata tin hopi informacion riba e caso, e no por a hasi mucho.

Abogado Noraima Pietersz a bisa huez cu ta hopi lamentable cu recherche a hasi asina mal trabao. E recherche por a bati riba e diferente portanan y haya sa exactamente unda G.H tabata biba y asina e por a evita pa henter e asunto aki sosode.

Fiscal a bisa cu normalmente pa intento di asesinato e por pidi 6 pa 7 aña, pero den e caso aki el a tene cuenta cu e circunstancianan y a dicidi di exigi un castigo di 5 aña incondicional.

Online Pap translation:

5 aÑa exigi, for dominicano cu did take revenge,
for perdida of his eye

oranjestad(aan): diahuebs at corte did take lugar the caso in cual lindo w naci at sand domingo, owing to wordo acusa of intencionalmente less life of one person (g.s hernandez), at august 2007.

rapport of police is show cu on 11 of august at dado instant lindo owing to bay the discoteca funcal y owing to los three tiro on g.h.un of owing to balanan owing to alcanze at his braza y the another dosnan owing to strike the in pecho. afortunadamente after cu doctor owing to deal the victima, past owing to constata cu none of the balanan owing to alcanza one organo, then life of g.h not was at danger.

all the problem owing to cuminza, for motibo of one another problem.ta so cu day 24 of december during one party for beach pabao, one amigo of l.w owing to achieve problem cu amigonan of g.h.durante the problem, tiramento of botter owing to cuminza.

one of the botternan owing to strike in eye of l.w y past owing to wordo injury seriamente.asina earnest cu past owing to lose his eye.segun l.w, was g.h that owing to throw the botter.mirando this past owing to bay entrega complaint at police, after cu his amigonan self owing to bay end eynan.segun l.w, one agent of recherche owing to come talk cune at hospital also.

l.w owing to declara cu past owing to cay in one depresion mirando cu past owing to lose his eye y for colmo past owing to ripara cu autoridadnan not owing to make nothing niether.el owing to achieve more angry y one day hour cu past owing to come across g.h at funcal, past owing to puntre for bay pafo for they talk.ora cu g.,h owing to bise cu the not have nothing of talk cune, past owing to saca his arm y owing to throw 3 trip on dje.

in corte 3 amigo of l.w owing to testigua cu of berdad they owing to entrega one denuncia y cu two of they owing to company one paper also at keep of police.un of they owing to tell cu past owing to bay cu one agent of recherche for mustre where g.h that owing to throw the botter, live.asina self nothing owing to wordo make.

the recherche cu that they will owing to talk also owing to aparece because; witness.huez owing to puntre of the caso y past owing to tell cu the do not corda if of berdad ela bay hospital for talk cu the victima.el owing to tell if cu fast of keep of police past owing to talk cu l.w, but esey was some month after of the incidente.

past owing to splica l.w cu the have to owing to come keep of police for of enough time.segun the ex recherche, once cu l.w owing to come y ask about pe, the not was tey y his colega owing to tell l.w for her entrega one denuncia but the not owing to hasie.

according the ex agent of recherche, the not did take none declaracion as amigonan of l.w owing to declara.
past owing to tell if cu hour the amigo owing to mustre the compleho of apartment where g.h will live, the not owing to bise in cua apartment the will is bibando y mirando cu the not was have much informacion on the caso, the not can owing to make mucho. 

advocate noraima pietersz owing to tell huez cu is much lamentable cu recherche owing to make so bad trabao. the recherche can owing to beat on the various portanan y achieve know exactly where g.h was live y so the can owing to evita for all the asunto here sosode.

fiscal owing to tell cu ordinarily for attempt of asesinato the can ask 6 for 7 year, but in the caso here past owing to as cuenta cu the circunstancianan y owing to dicidi of exigi one castigo of 5 year incondicional.

* * *

[blah]

Mum

I'm sure this has nothing to do with anything, but when I try to access this site from IE, my Word goes wacky.....wants me to insert disc...all sorts of stuff.  I've had to enter this site through Firefox or I have major issues.

reinstall word or microsoft office.

[Nut44x4]

Klaas.....can you take a look in the Ocean Search thread please...Kyle left a post.

[Nut44x4]

Posted at BFN by:

LegallyLex

Good morning everyone! I had the opportunity to speak with my brother this morning who is enroute to Aruba; and, he told me to inform you that the Persistence will be in Aruba this weekend.  They are still having 10-12 feet seas, but managed to stay ahead of Olga!  The seas are making for slower travel.

Please continue your prayers! And again, I will update you when they safely arrive in Aruba! (if I can get a hold of my brother)

Have a good day!

[klaasend]

Klaas.....can you take a look in the Ocean Search thread please...Kyle left a post.

Thanks, I answered the best I could.  Still not feeling well today although maybe a bit better than yesterday.  Have to run to the store soon but will research the previous ocean searches when I return if I'm feeling up to it.

[Hotshot]

Hotshots,

I see you are reading.  Do you know if Alex Matthews is in jail in this country?  I read on another forum someone claiming that he is and that he is claiming to be tortured by our government.  That doesn't sound right.  I knew he had visa problems because of known prior convictions but did not think he was in jail.

Since you have met him, I was hoping you would know.

.

Anna, Hi.
Last I knew, he was in Rhode Islands Jail, being held for the aruban authorities, and it did have to do with passport/visa problems. It all stemmed from him leaving the Netherlands to come here, he had gone for a funeral.  I dont recall the whole bit of events, but yes they had him in solitary in RI also.  for many months, and dont know if he still is there or not.  If you'd like I could call his wife to see.  Sorry I didnt catch this earlier, hope you find this reply.

[MumInOhio]

From Jaime 6/17 Statement

After that if I am not mistaken it was the beginning of June 2005, it was a Friday- or Saturday night that I bought a pizza at Domino's and then went to Joran's place. (with this the 3rd or 4th of June is meant; comment Croes). On that day I arrived at approximately 21.00 hours at Joran's place. I saw that "Koen", "Sander" and Joran were in the apartment of Joran and that they were playing poker. Koen and Sander are brothers but I do not know their last name. I had told Joran that I would be bringing them a pizza and a coca-cola. I also asked Joran if they had found the missing girl. Joran answered me that the missing girl had not been found yet. Then Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and he drove in the four door grey car, make Honda Civic that was owned by Deepak to "Carlos & Charlies" and that the three of them had then driven around with the missing girl. According to Joran the girl was strange. Joran told me that the girl was strange because she told him that her mother was "Hitler's sister". Joran told me that the girl wanted to see the sharks in the sea of Aruba and that they had dropped off the missing girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel.

When Joran was telling me this is father entered the apartment and after that the subject was not spoken about anymore. At approximately 23.00 hours, I left Joran's to pick up my dad from where he worked.

After that I was again called by Joran on my mobile phone. I cannot remember the date or the time when he called me. Joran had told me to come and spend the night together with "Freddy" at his place. According to me it was on a Friday or a Saturday. I had told Joran that I would come over to his place to spend the night. But I did not go to his place. On that day I went out to dinner with my girlfriend named "Karina ROMERO". The next day in the early hours of the morning, I had sent Joran a message that I hadn't been able to spend the night at his place because I had been busy. After that I got a message from Joran saying that it was OK/cool.

How many Friday and Saturday nights were there between 6/1 and when Joran was arrested! Only the first one he mentioned about the pizza. So what does this mean about spending the night at Joran's with Freddy? Don't think he is talking about the same weekend. Anyone?

[2NJSons_Mom]

From Jaime 6/17 Statement

After that if I am not mistaken it was the beginning of June 2005, it was a Friday- or Saturday night that I bought a pizza at Domino's and then went to Joran's place. (with this the 3rd or 4th of June is meant; comment Croes). On that day I arrived at approximately 21.00 hours at Joran's place. I saw that "Koen", "Sander" and Joran were in the apartment of Joran and that they were playing poker. Koen and Sander are brothers but I do not know their last name. I had told Joran that I would be bringing them a pizza and a coca-cola. I also asked Joran if they had found the missing girl. Joran answered me that the missing girl had not been found yet. Then Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and he drove in the four door grey car, make Honda Civic that was owned by Deepak to "Carlos & Charlies" and that the three of them had then driven around with the missing girl. According to Joran the girl was strange. Joran told me that the girl was strange because she told him that her mother was "Hitler's sister". Joran told me that the girl wanted to see the sharks in the sea of Aruba and that they had dropped off the missing girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel.

When Joran was telling me this is father entered the apartment and after that the subject was not spoken about anymore. At approximately 23.00 hours, I left Joran's to pick up my dad from where he worked.

After that I was again called by Joran on my mobile phone. I cannot remember the date or the time when he called me. Joran had told me to come and spend the night together with "Freddy" at his place. According to me it was on a Friday or a Saturday. I had told Joran that I would come over to his place to spend the night. But I did not go to his place. On that day I went out to dinner with my girlfriend named "Karina ROMERO". The next day in the early hours of the morning, I had sent Joran a message that I hadn't been able to spend the night at his place because I had been busy. After that I got a message from Joran saying that it was OK/cool.

How many Friday and Saturday nights were there between 6/1 and when Joran was arrested! Only the first one he mentioned about the pizza. So what does this mean about spending the night at Joran's with Freddy? Don't think he is talking about the same weekend. Anyone?

It would have to be June 3rd/4th that he was speaking about regarding sleep over at Joran's with Freddy....it doesn't flow, but the following week Joran was in the pokey.  Odd (maybe) that on June 17, Jaime is still relaying the drop off at the HI lie.

[Nut44x4]

Klaas.....can you take a look in the Ocean Search thread please...Kyle left a post.

Thanks, I answered the best I could.  Still not feeling well today although maybe a bit better than yesterday.  Have to run to the store soon but will research the previous ocean searches when I return if I'm feeling up to it.

I put in a couple for him to mull over.

[Hotshot]

I do totally think that because Paulus helped King with Alex, that KING had to be there for Paulus.  When I talked to them about how much Paulus was envolved with this "Alex" thing, they claimed it was deeper then what we all heard, or read.  Alex was co-owner of a few things on the Island with other "officials" that wanted to own all by themselves.  "Communications" was one of those businesses.  In order to do that, they had to RID Alex of those positions somehow, and they did just that.  Even if it meant they pissed him off to the point of going off like he did.  Now dont forget, he is a Saveneta person, and black to boot, so they looked down on him, even though he was Dutch.  The "KING" thing didnt happen until Alex was in solitaire confinement.  That is all why the Matthews wanted to contact the Holloway family, they wanted to explain to them the ways of corruption, and who, and how on the island.  They wanted to let them know that they are in for a long haul.  I have no doubt this was Kings payback for Paulus helping him, not a doubt in my mind.

[Nut44x4]

Hotshots,

I see you are reading.  Do you know if Alex Matthews is in jail in this country?  I read on another forum someone claiming that he is and that he is claiming to be tortured by our government.  That doesn't sound right.  I knew he had visa problems because of known prior convictions but did not think he was in jail.

Since you have met him, I was hoping you would know.

.

Anna, Hi.
Last I knew, he was in Rhode Islands Jail, being held for the aruban authorities, and it did have to do with passport/visa problems. It all stemmed from him leaving the Netherlands to come here, he had gone for a funeral.  I dont recall the whole bit of events, but yes they had him in solitary in RI also.  for many months, and dont know if he still is there or not.  If you'd like I could call his wife to see.  Sorry I didnt catch this earlier, hope you find this reply.

He is not on Rhode Islands Inmate search...perhaps released or was at County jail not prison?

[MumInOhio]

From Jaime 6/17 Statement

After that if I am not mistaken it was the beginning of June 2005, it was a Friday- or Saturday night that I bought a pizza at Domino's and then went to Joran's place. (with this the 3rd or 4th of June is meant; comment Croes). On that day I arrived at approximately 21.00 hours at Joran's place. I saw that "Koen", "Sander" and Joran were in the apartment of Joran and that they were playing poker. Koen and Sander are brothers but I do not know their last name. I had told Joran that I would be bringing them a pizza and a coca-cola. I also asked Joran if they had found the missing girl. Joran answered me that the missing girl had not been found yet. Then Joran told me that Deepak, Satish and he drove in the four door grey car, make Honda Civic that was owned by Deepak to "Carlos & Charlies" and that the three of them had then driven around with the missing girl. According to Joran the girl was strange. Joran told me that the girl was strange because she told him that her mother was "Hitler's sister". Joran told me that the girl wanted to see the sharks in the sea of Aruba and that they had dropped off the missing girl at the Holiday Inn Hotel.

When Joran was telling me this is father entered the apartment and after that the subject was not spoken about anymore. At approximately 23.00 hours, I left Joran's to pick up my dad from where he worked.

After that I was again called by Joran on my mobile phone. I cannot remember the date or the time when he called me. Joran had told me to come and spend the night together with "Freddy" at his place. According to me it was on a Friday or a Saturday. I had told Joran that I would come over to his place to spend the night. But I did not go to his place. On that day I went out to dinner with my girlfriend named "Karina ROMERO". The next day in the early hours of the morning, I had sent Joran a message that I hadn't been able to spend the night at his place because I had been busy. After that I got a message from Joran saying that it was OK/cool.

How many Friday and Saturday nights were there between 6/1 and when Joran was arrested! Only the first one he mentioned about the pizza. So what does this mean about spending the night at Joran's with Freddy? Don't think he is talking about the same weekend. Anyone?

It would have to be June 3rd/4th that he was speaking about regarding sleep over at Joran's with Freddy....it doesn't flow, but the following week Joran was in the pokey.  Odd (maybe) that on June 17, Jaime is still relaying the drop off at the HI lie.

But in the first paragraph he says he went over for pizza that Friday or Saturday night or the comment did. After that Joran was in the pokey until September. I wonder if he is referring to the last weekend in May. Somehow Freddy and Joran aren't on the same page with when Joran told Freddy about the HI story. Am also thinking of I think Melody's posts about Freddy sleeping over the 29th.

But looks like he got his lies mixed up somewhere!

[oceanexploration]

Nut44x4..
For the record... Lex is not my sister.  She's the sister of the R/V Persistence owner.  Please correct the post, thanks.

On another note.. this will be my last posting here.  I will monitor the Ocean Search thread carefully.  Please continue following along.  I will post updates on the ship's search blog as soon as I get settled in Aruba and have some time.  Thanks for your prayers and help.

~Kyle