Lively Case Discussion #514 8/19 - 8/21/2006

[Lala'sMom]

Bearly
You are beginning to see my point...smart fish!  

[KatzHome]

I haven't heard from None, but I am sure the family's grief is unbearable at this time.  Please remember them in your thoughts and prayers.  Also, if you don't mind return to the candle site and light another one.  She sees them and if it gives her strength in some small way then it has been worth the effort.
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=None

Thanks for the reminder, Lalas.

I just went and looked, and some of the ones we lit the other day are almost burned out. It says they burn for 48 hours, so I lit a new one.

I am so impressed.  I read through quite a bit of the messages and we often forget that behind all those lurkers are some equally concerned human beings.  Just because they don't chime in, doesn't mean they don't care.  There was a candle lit from a lurker from China.  That really touched me.

And thank you for sharing that with us, Beaner ~ yeah, it really is touching...

[Easywriter]

~ If you want to find a toy ~

[KatzHome]

I haven't heard from None, but I am sure the family's grief is unbearable at this time.  Please remember them in your thoughts and prayers.  Also, if you don't mind return to the candle site and light another one.  She sees them and if it gives her strength in some small way then it has been worth the effort.
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=None

Thanks for the reminder, Lalas.

I just went and looked, and some of the ones we lit the other day are almost burned out. It says they burn for 48 hours, so I lit a new one.

I am so impressed.  I read through quite a bit of the messages and we often forget that behind all those lurkers are some equally concerned human beings.  Just because they don't chime in, doesn't mean they don't care.  There was a candle lit from a lurker from China.  That really touched me.

Actually, there have been many candles lit by some of our former monkeys.  I have been impressed as well.  Even Debbie from BFN has been there.  So touching.

Debbie is a beautiful soul...  And I am so glad that so many Monkeys were there for None.

[LilPuma]

Satish June 11 statement:

My brother Deepak parked the car behind the former Ritsz building. After my brother had parked the car, the three of us walked to Carlos & Charlies. I saw that on the right side, when you walk into Carlos & Charlies, a group of Americans. I knew that they were Americans because they were talking in English.

Deepak June 11 statement:
We left Joran's place between 00:15 and 00:20 hours for "Carlos & Charlies". At that time my brother was driving. I was in the front seat and Joran was in the back. We arrived at "Carlos Si Charlie's” at approximately 00:30. My brother had parked the car on the parking lot behind "Carlos & Charlie's. We then walked in the direction of "Carlos & Charlies". In front of "Carlos & Charlie's there was a group of girls. Joran had noticed that these girls were also part of the group he met at the casino. Joran had greeted the girls and then we walked into "Carlos & Charlie's.

Joran June 9 statement:
After that we drove straight to Carlos & Charlies. Deepak was the driver but I cannot remember now who was sitting beside him. I do not remember now if it was Satish or me. I estimate that we arrived at Carlos & Charlies between 00.15 and 00.30 hours. Deepak parked his car on the parking lot behind Carlos & Charlies and after that we walked into the building of Carlos & Charlies. I don't have to pay because I have a VIP pass. With my VIP pass Deepak and Satish were also allowed in.


These 3 statements are very interesting.  Since there was a great deal of pressure on the Kalpoes by this time, I think there is more truth in their statements than Joran's.  Who was driving the car? Where was Joran riding in the car?  Why are these 3 so confused about these simple details...there is a reason.  This should be cut and dried here.  So and so drove and parked the car.  So and so was in the front passenger seat.  Very telling.

Reading the J2K statements reminded me that one of the MB kids reported seeing J2K in Deepak's car during the evening before C&Cs.  (I've looked for this statement but haven't found it yet.)  I also remember Nadira's first interview with Greta saying that Joran called Deepak because he needed a lift; Satish went to pick up Deepak and then they went to pick up Joran.  This is very different from the other statements that they all went home, did homework, cleaned the car, ate dinner.  I'm thinking that Satish was driving because he picked up Deepak, then they picked up Joran and maybe went somewhere, did something, they don't want anyone to know between 10:00 pm and 12:30 am.  So they changed the story and Paulus didn't hear Deepak's loud car at midnight because he wasn't even there.

[memphis]

....Good Heavens!!!  That's $68.00 from a 17 year old kid in high school!!!!!!
For someone that doesn't take any money from his gambling winnings, he sure does have some to throw around after midnight. And to think it was all done by a teenager that wasn't old enough to drive or drink, much less, buy all the drinks for everyone.  This is a pattern of behaviour if I ever saw one...20 times or more...I'd bet more.

But Lala's, doesn't the house always come out the winner? If Joran gambles all the time, wouldn't statistics tell us that he would lose in the long run? Where are you going? The only thing I can think is that he 'earns' his money some other way.

[klaasend]

~ If you want to find a toy ~

  What's up Easy?  Did she respond to you?

[memphis]

AHH!  

Bearly you are a smart little bear.

[Bearlyhere]

Bearly
You are beginning to see my point...smart fish!  

I have always seen that point, it's just that when I post it, no one responds.  (This is not a complaint, just an observation).  How can we trace his money?

(BTW, which point did you mean, the money he throws around or the "follow the money" part?)

[memphis]

Why is it so important to establish who was driving and who was seated where? Why would this be something to lie about?

[Easywriter]

I was just very busy with visitors from Aruba and Venezuela (they left this morning). Also, my grandson is here and is staying with us until we take him to college in Boca Raton. Of course I think of you and was going to write at any moment, but thank God you did so that I can immediately answer.

I think it's great he continues to write with you.  It's a great friendship you two have developed.

I like him.

[Bearlyhere]

Why is it so important to establish who was driving and who was seated where? Why would this be something to lie about?

Would it have to do with premeditation? The driver is the "leader," he can say yea/or nay.

[Bearlyhere]

BBL, the natives are getting restless.  

[Lala'sMom]

Quote from lilpuma:
Reading the J2K statements reminded me that one of the MB kids reported seeing J2K in Deepak's car during the evening before C&Cs. (I've looked for this statement but haven't found it yet.) I also remember Nadira's first interview with Greta saying that Joran called Deepak because he needed a lift; Satish went to pick up Deepak and then they went to pick up Joran. This is very different from the other statements that they all went home, did homework, cleaned the car, ate dinner. I'm thinking that Satish was driving because he picked up Deepak, then they picked up Joran and maybe went somewhere, did something, they don't want anyone to know between 10:00 pm and 12:30 am. So they changed the story and Paulus didn't hear Deepak's loud car at midnight because he wasn't even there.

Thank you so much!!  I was thinking about that as you typed it.  I would really like that transcript again to read.  There is most likely more truth in her statements than we realize.  Somone was lying to momma...

[Lala'sMom]

Why is it so important to establish who was driving and who was seated where? Why would this be something to lie about?

It isn't really...just goes to the fact that they all knew more than they were willing to tell.  On the other hand, how could you not know who was driving the car?  Only one person can do that at a time...unless they stopped and switched drivers at some point before they got there.  Such as the Nadira tale of Satish picked up Deepak and then they picked up Joran.  I know this is confusing, but that is why I brought it up.  Who's story has the most truth in it?  What do you guys think?

[Kat_Gram]

I also think Joran is getting too confident.
Too visible in having a good time.
He had the parents who hired Joe T and who else pulls the strings for him. And WHY ?
I just hope that there are people monitoring him who are professional and never take their eyes away from him.
Like Bo. Hope he is still on the case.
Although didn't Joran go back to school in Holland recently ?

[Easywriter]

Yes she did.

[sharon]

School I notice has already started full speed in Miami and traffic becomes slower in their vicinities. It is very hot and humid here, unlike Aruba. In Aruba there's always the tradewinds that blow strong across the island and take away some of the heat.

     

I was wondering why the heck he would spend the summer in Miami.

The Caribbean breezes, similar to the tradewinds in Hawaii, always cool things off.

Here in Miami -- the breezes 'burn'. lol

I'm sure you tell your friend how much he is appreciated. But you can never tell him that too much.

Thanks Easy!

[memphis]

Why is it so important to establish who was driving and who was seated where? Why would this be something to lie about?

Would it have to do with premeditation? The driver is the "leader," he can say yea/or nay.

Are you referring to the game? Did the ALE know about the 20+ times and how it worked?

[Lala'sMom]

About the money...gambling, money laundering, drugs, spending money, payoffs, gambling...Joran has a side job that paid very well up this point.  There is money going or coming from somewhere or else he couldn't get away with just the small things like...gambling, drinking, etc.