Lively Case Discussion #514 8/19 - 8/21/2006

[Easywriter]

Damn!

[Lala'sMom]

Joran June 9:
To your question as to who was driving the car and where we were sitting, I answer you the following. Deepak was driving the car, Satish was sitting next to him on the passenger seat. I was sitting on the backseat behind Deepak and Natalee was sitting behind Satish.

Obviously, a few drinks is a great memory refresher for Joran.  See how detailed he is with who was where this time.

[SunFreak2]

O/T

Yesterday I was hacked and they destroyed my Natalee Holloway favorites file.

Here is a good site to check your computer to see if you've been hacked or are vulnerable to being hacked.  There are 3 FREE programs on the page.

http://servicecenter.antivirus.com/tm/core/en/services/

[mishy]

Well, as I've been pasting the old front page posts into notepad (what a frickin mess) so at least I can cut & paste if I can ever find anything....

an old post popped out -- and I thought I'd share



*we arent all whores

Comment by Koen | August 18, 2005, 6:55 pm

WOW Sharon.  Did anyone respond to him? ha.  Good find.

Actually it was the last post on the thread (the old front page could get long) so there were no answers.

But I doubted it was Koen -- as Klaas confirmed. Not to say he didn't post on the front page -- but I doubt he would use his real name.lol

I've just been on a mission ever since Klaas 'outed' WW. I like to track back to things we know were made up to see who started it.

Looking for all the people who lied to us  

Well heck...I must not have been here that day....Who the heck is WW?

[memphis]

So Who Drives to C&C, And who Sits Where?

Lala'sMom writes: "These 3 statements are very interesting. Since there was a great deal of pressure on the Kalpoes by this time, I think there is more truth in their statements than Joran's. Who was driving the car? Where was Joran riding in the car? Why are these 3 so confused about these simple details...there is a reason. This should be cut and dried here. So and so drove and parked the car. So and so was in the front passenger seat. Very telling."

This is a great post and a critical observation and point.  All statements reporting the 3's arrival sequence to C&C sgould be reviewed w/ fine-tooth comb, including who picked up who, when and where.

The statements reporting who drove who to C&C all vary, significantly, citing different drivers and different seating within same car.  In fact, has it even been firmly established via corroborated testimony or other statement that all 3 arrived at C&C in same car, at same time?  Other than these three saying so, I don't believe it has.

Note deepak statement as cited here by Lala's and again note sequencing: Deepak puts Satish w/ car keys (as Satish is driver), so that deepak can say later he sat on ground waiting for jvds, satish, natalee to come out.  By calling satish in bar (missed call), satish comes out and gives deepak keys and staish walks back into to get jvds/Natalee.

Think about that.

deepak pulls satish away from critical action going on in bar: note NEITHER KALPOE will state they were there for shot drinking by jvds and Natalee, neither of them ACTUALLY WITNESS THIS EVENT, even though they refer to knowing that it happened.

It was at this point, almost surely, that Natalee was slipped a drug in a drink.  I also think quite possible that satish carried and potentially administered the drug.

[/color]

This makes sooo much sense to me. It answers my questions as to why they would lie about who was where on arrival.

[Shizaru]

So Who Drives to C&C, And who Sits Where?

Lala'sMom writes: "These 3 statements are very interesting. Since there was a great deal of pressure on the Kalpoes by this time, I think there is more truth in their statements than Joran's. Who was driving the car? Where was Joran riding in the car? Why are these 3 so confused about these simple details...there is a reason. This should be cut and dried here. So and so drove and parked the car. So and so was in the front passenger seat. Very telling."

This is a great post and a critical observation and point.  All statements reporting the 3's arrival sequence to C&C sgould be reviewed w/ fine-tooth comb, including who picked up who, when and where.

The statements reporting who drove who to C&C all vary, significantly, citing different drivers and different seating within same car.  In fact, has it even been firmly established via corroborated testimony or other statement that all 3 arrived at C&C in same car, at same time?  Other than these three saying so, I don't believe it has.

Note deepak statement as cited here by Lala's and again note sequencing: Deepak puts Satish w/ car keys (as Satish is driver), so that deepak can say later he sat on ground waiting for jvds, satish, natalee to come out.  By calling satish in bar (missed call), satish comes out and gives deepak keys and staish walks back into to get jvds/Natalee.

Think about that.

deepak pulls satish away from critical action going on in bar: note NEITHER KALPOE will state they were there for shot drinking by jvds and Natalee, neither of them ACTUALLY WITNESS THIS EVENT, even though they refer to knowing that it happened.

It was at this point, almost surely, that Natalee was slipped a drug in a drink.  I also think quite possible that satish carried and potentially administered the drug.

Actually it appears that Deepak and Satish are not in agreement about whether Satish went back out to the car after "missed call" or not.  Deepak says he did, but Satish doesn't mention it in his statement and the wording gives the impression he was with Joran and Natalee continuously.

[memphis]

Were there others outside waiting? Was there another car?

[klaasend]

Mishy - WW = Wonderwoman.  She posted here for a long time.  She is the one who produced the Deepak emails.  

I discovered a couple months ago that it was WW, posting under the name of Mazrad on the front page of SM, that started the rumor about Natalee running away in Costa Rica.  I've always felt WW had some kind of connection to the suspects, not just Deepak.  Maybe even a connection to Michael Posner.  WW lives in Chicago area.

[Lala'sMom]

Satish June 11:
I sat down next to my brother. The girl got in through the back door on the right hand side of the car and sat down behind my brother. Joran was behind me in the car. The girl had at no point gotten acquainted with us, me and my brother. I cannot remember exactly how it went, but one this is certain, we made another round passing in front of Carlos & Charles.[/u]
Deepak June 11:
To your question whether Satish was introduced to the girl or whether he introduced himself, I can say the following. He did not introduce himself to the girl and also wasn't introduced to her. I had turned back and switched the lights on of my car. After that I turned around again and asked Joran in Papiamentu: "k&o nos ta hasi" (loosely translated by reporting officer to the “what are we going to do now”) I had driven twice around “Carlos and Charlies”.[/i][/b] When we came to the end of our second drive around I saw the people of the “Visibility Team” stand on the corner of the road that lead in front of the afore mentioned establishment.
Joran June 9:
When we were sitting in the car Natalee did not speak with Deepak and Satish. Without asking me who Deepak and Satish were Natalee got into the car with them. I did tell Natalee that Deepak and Satish were my friends. I have to say that Natalee asked me if Deepak and Satish were rich people, because she was impressed by their car. We drove off the parking lot and Natalee saw that her friends and girlfriends were standing between Royal Plaza Mall and the bus stop. [i]We couldn't turn left so Deepak had to drive another around the front of Carlos & Charlies again.[/i][/b]
Deepak June 9:
I walked to my car. My car was the only one parked in the back of the parking lot. I went and sat in my car to wait for Satish and Joran. I had no more money left on my pre-paid phone to call them. I was listening to the radio and was trying to adjust the sound. The car door on the right front door was opened. I looked up and saw that it was Satish. Satish sat down next to me. Then the back car door opened. Joran got into the car. He got in on the right side of the car and sat down behind Satish. The girl had also got into the car through the back car door on the left side. She sat down behind me in the car. I greeted her. I said to her: "Hi" She greeted me back and had told me her name. I immediately forgot her name.

This is a critical point here also...why is it important that only Deepak mentions she said "hi".  That was on the first statement and later omitted on the others.  Are we to think she just got in a car and even after Joran told her these 2 guys were his friends she didn't speak to them?

Also, note that all 3 mention driving around the block twice.  Why?  What was the reason that was important?  So they could back up the story about her shouting out the window?  Or did she REALLY shout out that window for help and they had to explain it away somehow?  Was it a signal to the visibility team?  Remember, Simian asking why the "team" had not been on the beach?  Well, they were there, close anyway.  Deepak places them right where they should be.

[Ono]

I still think that more than being Joran's social friends, the Kalpoe brothers were the hired help, working to make extra money by driving, etc. Joran,etc. on these escapades which involved American tourist girls on their last night in Aruba.  It's like a mini-mob group.

I disagree.  Satish was friends with Koen and probably went to school with Koen.  Koen introduced Satish and Deepak to Joran.  Satish is seen with Joran, Freddy and the girl partying at Joran's house when he was released in September.  Deepak is the "third man out".  He owns the vehicle and may be the driver in most cases.  Satish is a friend.

Klass, you're right..I realize about the original Satish/Koen friendship connection, but something about the Trio's relationship by the time of Natalee's last night in Aruba says it's possible that by then, Freddy, Joran, Deepak, Satish, etc. had a regular little tourist video business scheme going and the Kalpoes were getting paid to do the driving, or whatever else. By then, it seems to have racheted up into a regular routine. The Kalpoes don't seem to be geting anything else out of it.

[Kat_Gram]

Katgram
My belief is that Deepak does what he does with Joran, not because he wants to but because he HAS to.  Deepak and Satish are hiding something in their past and Joran knows all about it.  So does Poppa Sloot.

Yeah, for sure now, but I was speaking of before C & C's.
There is no way Deepak / Satish can cut the Dutch Boy loose now and tell the truth because Durch Boy will hang them out to dry. And Dutch Boy seems to belong to the Teflon Dutch Branch of Criminals Inc. of
Aruba.

[klaasend]

Need to get some work done, so I'll be lurking for a bit and not posting  

[Kat_Gram]

I think that Deepak in his statements want us to know that Natalee was in the car of her own free will. She had the chance to get out and he drove back to where her friends were to let her out. But they were gone. Once the car had been spotted by people who knew Natalee he knew if anything happened ( a rape charge ), his car was in the mix.
That car was a one of a kind on Aruba. Plenty of folks knew who the car belonged to , who the frequent passengers were and what kind of stuff they got up to.

[Bearlyhere]

Why is it so important to establish who was driving and who was seated where? Why would this be something to lie about?

Would it have to do with premeditation? The driver is the "leader," he can say yea/or nay.

Are you referring to the game? Did the ALE know about the 20+ times and how it worked?

No, I meant he was the one in control of the car.  Joran can tell him what to do--drive here, drive there, but the final decision is the driver's.  He is the one who is steering the car.

[Bearlyhere]

Why is it so important to establish who was driving and who was seated where? Why would this be something to lie about?

Would it have to do with premeditation? The driver is the "leader," he can say yea/or nay.

Are you referring to the game? Did the ALE know about the 20+ times and how it worked?

Someone in ALE knew all about this 20+ times.  Someone with a dirty hand...oops!  Sorry.  

Could a dirty "hand" be a dirty assistant?

[SunnyinTX]

Bearlyhere & SunnyinTX --

sorry for not answering. I've been in cut & paster mode -- and now I need to take care of the family stuff for a bit.

Klaas posted an old forum post where WW brought over a post from another 'friend' or on another forum. Someone saying she knew Nat and had been on the trip (I think) -- and that Nat had runaway before.

I think I have saved it -- it will have to wait awhile -- unless the galactic zookeeper can whip it out faster

Net net -- it was a lie and it was the beginning of the 'Natalee ran away' rumor
I think she even through in the haricut and dye job
________

thanks Sharon....hopefully either you or klaas can find it! I always thought WW was an AXX and full of poop...she was the one I originally told to EAT A BUG!!

[Bearlyhere]

Bearlyhere & SunnyinTX --

sorry for not answering. I've been in cut & paster mode -- and now I need to take care of the family stuff for a bit.

Klaas posted an old forum post where WW brought over a post from another 'friend' or on another forum. Someone saying she knew Nat and had been on the trip (I think) -- and that Nat had runaway before.

I think I have saved it -- it will have to wait awhile -- unless the galactic zookeeper can whip it out faster

Net net -- it was a lie and it was the beginning of the 'Natalee ran away' rumor

I think she even through in the haricut and dye job

________

Thanks, Sharon.

[SunnyinTX]

here is a link to dana's schedule for tomorrow.
http://st106.startlogic.com/~cbandtal/guests.htm
Jessica's Law and Clint van Zandt.
I really like Dana's show. Not sure if I will be able to listen live,
but there is always the pod cast.
Dana has been a great friend to this case.

thanks Kat...yes he is a good friend....

[Kat_Gram]

Oh, Deepak was getting access to girls that a nerdy looking no social skills nothing going for him kinda guy could not do on his own. He doesn't seem to be a silver tounged devil when it comes to the ladies.

[Bearlyhere]

Someone in ALE knew all about this 20+ times.  Someone with a dirty hand...oops!  Sorry.  

Gosh Lala'sMom -- you're on and I need to run

I saw a Shango post today -- (paraphrase) many Arawaks have dirtyhands.

All one word (if you've noticed, he writes it several different ways and I think they have different meanings).

I think that refers to the group of Arubans who are 'on the take'. This is in the area recently posted about -- 'the father can sing any song'....

And the posts about the driving -- Great! I could have sworn the driver to C&C changed between a few statements, but I never went back to confirm.

It's almost as if it didn't happen that way at all

Or what's the difference if Satish or Deepak drove?

(sorry for this drive by -- I will read what I miss before I post again)

Dirtyhands like drugrunners or girlsnatchers.